I'm not sure if anyone agree, but races, armors, and weapons in some of the most famous fantasy MMOs are absurd and rediculous.
Long-eared elves, green-skinned shreks (...sorry, orcs), undersized bearded dwarves, baby-like or toy-like races (like gnomes... I HATE GNOMES )...
Armors that look like plastic halloween costumes or silly bathing suits...
Weapons that have rediculous toy-like appearance and should waight more then the person who uses it (according to the weapon's size)...
I know, "game" and "realism" should not always be the same thing, but come on! These features above are just shoking... Sinse when fantasy became a parody on fantasy?
Anyone else wants to see some more realistic armor/weapon and non-standard (or "semi-Tolkien") races in future MMOs?
It looks like ArenaNet is one of the few developers who decided to get rid of these silly standards (at least partially). I think we should support this idia for the sake of fantasy MMO development.
I agree and I disagree.
Everquest is a high fantasy mmorpg with realistic graphics, armor and weapons that are blended in with fantasy. There is a perpetual balance. It really boils down to what types of graphics does the game have as well as what type of fantasy setting is the game. Are the graphics realistic or stylized? Is the game setting high fantasy/midieval or high fantasy in a made up world? Games like Tera are set in a made up world. The vision for aesthetics are limitess and can do what they want. Stylized graphics would work for that.
Regarding orcs having greenskin and elves have pointy ears is the origin of their design for that race. Why take that away? You can still have pointy eared elves with green skin orcs with a fantasy setting and not get all of the stylized cartoony kiddy plastic graphics. Vanguard is a great example of fantasty realism as well as age of conan. In many different things I see over porportion shoulder items. Bah. I hate that the most! Also another issue to agree with on your post is every race looks like they took 4 shots of steriods daily.
With my own personal game design I can assure you that I am going for more of a realistic graphic engine and textures than the new common stylized over proportioned armor graphics. I have a balanced midieval/fantasy setting. However, there wont be like sci fi looking weapons like in WoW or any other game for that. I have different armor types that would of been wore back in the day as well as different metals a player can forge. There will be a good portion of fantasy armor and weapons but they won't have nothing like the new titles now.
Here are some great examples of what fantasy weapons should be when you blend in realism and fantasy.
You realize that axe, that cross sword, the vanguard dual lance, and the eq staves all are very much not realistic in any way right?
Axe - If you want realism, look up a real axe head. They're not all that large, even in the case of weapons.
Sword - thing has zero support for it's long blade by coming into such a narrow base. Especially given the hilt is made of a different material it seems there's a lack of space for a proper tang. That means the blade can't even be mounted properly in the first place.
Lance - in general double sided weapons for 'realism' are just bad ideas, add to that jumbo mace shaped spear heads ad you're dealing with a heavy weapon that's just as likely to kill you as it s your enemy.
Staves - Well a staff that's made out of thin spindly parts that aren't even seemingly bound together is just likely to break when struck, and the other one is equal parts gaudy and hefty. Staves aren't thick, the best ones are made out of inch wide at most and reasonably flexible wood that won't snap on you when you both swing it about and bap people in the head with it.
If yer gonna complain about realism, at least establish a concept of realism.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
You realize that axe, that cross sword, the vanguard dual lance, and the eq staves all are very much not realistic in any way right?
Axe - If you want realism, look up a real axe head. They're not all that large, even in the case of weapons.
Sword - thing has zero support for it's long blade by coming into such a narrow base. Especially given the hilt is made of a different material it seems there's a lack of space for a proper tang. That means the blade can't even be mounted properly in the first place.
Lance - in general double sided weapons for 'realism' are just bad ideas, add to that jumbo mace shaped spear heads ad you're dealing with a heavy weapon that's just as likely to kill you as it s your enemy.
Staves - Well a staff that's made out of thin spindly parts that aren't even seemingly bound together is just likely to break when struck, and the other one is equal parts gaudy and hefty. Staves aren't thick, the best ones are made out of inch wide at most and reasonably flexible wood that won't snap on you when you both swing it about and bap people in the head with it.
If yer gonna complain about realism, at least establish a concept of realism.
I like the way this guy thinks ^
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Originally posted by Deivos You realize that axe, that cross sword, the vanguard dual lance, and the eq staves all are very much not realistic in any way right?
Axe - If you want realism, look up a real axe head. They're not all that large, even in the case of weapons.
Sword - thing has zero support for it's long blade by coming into such a narrow base. Especially given the hilt is made of a different material it seems there's a lack of space for a proper tang. That means the blade can't even be mounted properly in the first place.
Lance - in general double sided weapons for 'realism' are just bad ideas, add to that jumbo mace shaped spear heads ad you're dealing with a heavy weapon that's just as likely to kill you as it s your enemy.
Staves - Well a staff that's made out of thin spindly parts that aren't even seemingly bound together is just likely to break when struck, and the other one is equal parts gaudy and hevty. Staves aren't thick, the best ones are made out of inch wide at most and reasonably flexible wood that won't snap on you when you both swing it about and bap people in the head with it.
If yer gonna complain about realism, at least establish a concept of realism.
Unless your sword and handle are all in one piece, you're going to have some issues no matter how short or long the sword is.
Anyway, I think the weapons and armor are meant to be iconic. The bigger and flashier the weapon, the better the stats are on the weapon. Ditto for armors. If you were going to for realism in a world full of magic, I'd have armor that made me invisible, silent and fast. I would also have the ability to summon a horde of fire breathing, poisonous army ants that would work their way into any armor. Yes, it's silly, I know.
If you're just going for realistic, most people would be dead or peasants because getting hit by a 4 pound hung of metal, whether it's sharp or not usually kills you.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Not sure I got your comment entirely. Most swords are built using a tang. o_O
Would kinda mess up the balance of a sword if the hilt was a solid mass of metal most of the time.
Not sure why you tagged mine for quoting either...
EDIT: Guess it's a good idea to note my own opinion and where I'm coming from on such a topic.
I've said many times before, my favorite MMO is/was Pplanetside.
Other MMOs I enjoy/have enjoyed are CoX, DDO, and Asheron's Call.
External to MMOs, I mostly play shooters and action RPGs. My favorite titles would be tactical shooters that blend some rts strategy and development into the titles, though those are few and far between.
I play Mount&Blade Warbands a lot. I use the crpg mod that lets players progress from 'peasant' level skill into whatever kinda skillset and getup I desire. As a result I actually see and deal with that 'peasant's dying fast' problem rather directly. And I'm fine with it. Those are kind of 'no duh' circumstances. I like my realism and I compensate for my lack of ability as a character with my ability as a player well enough that I'm not constantly getting knocked on the head and dying in one hit.
That is a world apart from aesthetic realism though. And while I want my game to look and 'feel' realistic, that's different from what the effects of using a given item or what abilities one can do is.
Point being, you can just as logically summon fire ants to worm into armor on WoW as you could to so in a more 'realistic' looking title. Putting on armor that makes you fast and invisible pretty much has nothing to do with aesthetics and everything to do with inevitable play style and game mechanics.
Now, having a game that operates within the concept of realistic mechanics is more directly tied to having more realistic aesthetics inherently. It just 'wouldn't make sense' withing such a context to do otherwise. I would assume that a more realistic game with a world full of magic would also be noted for it's lack of leniency in the extent to which it could alter physical properties, or otherwise have equal countermeasures. So one neither could make an invisible fast armor, nor could the trust that other players couldn't just as readily dispel the magic on the armor by enchanting a doorway to strip magic off anyone entering.
Games that aren't inherently realistic in gameplay don't have such an obligation to look realistic. However, that's not a license to go overboard either in my opinion.
Personally, I'd rather games develop a clear and reasonable style that can accurately reflect the nature of the player and NPCs from their visuals. This also would be the point to operate within reason. There's a skeletal structure and required body mass under every skin to think about, and creatures that defy operational morphology are a logic breaker to me if there isn't a clear reason behind it.
I'm not even averse to golems made out of floating body parts, because you can develop a reasonable excuse for it. Maybe not entirely logical, but you can insert enough to make it make sense. Like saying they generate alternating magnetic fields so that the pieces may hover in place and move freely. We can do that in real life, it's ineffective and at best can only make something float, but it's got a realistic frame of reference to draw on to make something 'more'.
So by all means, create great fantasy and sci-fi creatures, places, and items. But ground it in some rational basis if you want the visuals and actions to be believed and immersive. You can develop iconic and unique aesthetics for a realistic body form. It's honestly at it's core the application of geometric shapes to create a silhouette that defines something unique.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
You realize that axe, that cross sword, the vanguard dual lance, and the eq staves all are very much not realistic in any way right?
Axe - If you want realism, look up a real axe head. They're not all that large, even in the case of weapons.
Sword - thing has zero support for it's long blade by coming into such a narrow base. Especially given the hilt is made of a different material it seems there's a lack of space for a proper tang. That means the blade can't even be mounted properly in the first place.
Lance - in general double sided weapons for 'realism' are just bad ideas, add to that jumbo mace shaped spear heads ad you're dealing with a heavy weapon that's just as likely to kill you as it s your enemy.
Staves - Well a staff that's made out of thin spindly parts that aren't even seemingly bound together is just likely to break when struck, and the other one is equal parts gaudy and hefty. Staves aren't thick, the best ones are made out of inch wide at most and reasonably flexible wood that won't snap on you when you both swing it about and bap people in the head with it.
If yer gonna complain about realism, at least establish a concept of realism.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The character holds his sword little incorrectly... and sword has some unnecessary elements. Also crossguard is directed the wrong way. But still looks pretty realistic
I love big weapons in the game, it makes up for my lack of size where it counts...if you know what I mean.
I kid I kid...huge oversized weapons is always an immersion breaker for me. I can deal with heavy armor, but oversized weapons that are three times my character size is rage inducing...well not far as where I start freaking out over it, but its a huge negative. From what I've seen of Guild Wars 2, thats more up my alley. Probably be my favorite in an MMO. A nice mix of realistic, but a bit of flair to it. LOTRO is nice, but none of it stood out to me...it was all bland, probably didn't help armor was painted on. Mount and Blade has the best fully realistic armor/weapons, I really like what they did with equipment there. Not as much flair as GW2, but they weren't going for that.
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Comments
LOOL, this is surely absurd. But funny. A killer squirrel. XD
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I agree and I disagree.
Everquest is a high fantasy mmorpg with realistic graphics, armor and weapons that are blended in with fantasy. There is a perpetual balance. It really boils down to what types of graphics does the game have as well as what type of fantasy setting is the game. Are the graphics realistic or stylized? Is the game setting high fantasy/midieval or high fantasy in a made up world? Games like Tera are set in a made up world. The vision for aesthetics are limitess and can do what they want. Stylized graphics would work for that.
Regarding orcs having greenskin and elves have pointy ears is the origin of their design for that race. Why take that away? You can still have pointy eared elves with green skin orcs with a fantasy setting and not get all of the stylized cartoony kiddy plastic graphics. Vanguard is a great example of fantasty realism as well as age of conan. In many different things I see over porportion shoulder items. Bah. I hate that the most! Also another issue to agree with on your post is every race looks like they took 4 shots of steriods daily.
With my own personal game design I can assure you that I am going for more of a realistic graphic engine and textures than the new common stylized over proportioned armor graphics. I have a balanced midieval/fantasy setting. However, there wont be like sci fi looking weapons like in WoW or any other game for that. I have different armor types that would of been wore back in the day as well as different metals a player can forge. There will be a good portion of fantasy armor and weapons but they won't have nothing like the new titles now.
Here are some great examples of what fantasy weapons should be when you blend in realism and fantasy.
You realize that axe, that cross sword, the vanguard dual lance, and the eq staves all are very much not realistic in any way right?
Axe - If you want realism, look up a real axe head. They're not all that large, even in the case of weapons.
Sword - thing has zero support for it's long blade by coming into such a narrow base. Especially given the hilt is made of a different material it seems there's a lack of space for a proper tang. That means the blade can't even be mounted properly in the first place.
Lance - in general double sided weapons for 'realism' are just bad ideas, add to that jumbo mace shaped spear heads ad you're dealing with a heavy weapon that's just as likely to kill you as it s your enemy.
Staves - Well a staff that's made out of thin spindly parts that aren't even seemingly bound together is just likely to break when struck, and the other one is equal parts gaudy and hefty. Staves aren't thick, the best ones are made out of inch wide at most and reasonably flexible wood that won't snap on you when you both swing it about and bap people in the head with it.
If yer gonna complain about realism, at least establish a concept of realism.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I like the way this guy thinks ^
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Unless your sword and handle are all in one piece, you're going to have some issues no matter how short or long the sword is.
Anyway, I think the weapons and armor are meant to be iconic. The bigger and flashier the weapon, the better the stats are on the weapon. Ditto for armors. If you were going to for realism in a world full of magic, I'd have armor that made me invisible, silent and fast. I would also have the ability to summon a horde of fire breathing, poisonous army ants that would work their way into any armor. Yes, it's silly, I know.
If you're just going for realistic, most people would be dead or peasants because getting hit by a 4 pound hung of metal, whether it's sharp or not usually kills you.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Not sure I got your comment entirely. Most swords are built using a tang. o_O
Would kinda mess up the balance of a sword if the hilt was a solid mass of metal most of the time.
Not sure why you tagged mine for quoting either...
EDIT: Guess it's a good idea to note my own opinion and where I'm coming from on such a topic.
I've said many times before, my favorite MMO is/was Pplanetside.
Other MMOs I enjoy/have enjoyed are CoX, DDO, and Asheron's Call.
External to MMOs, I mostly play shooters and action RPGs. My favorite titles would be tactical shooters that blend some rts strategy and development into the titles, though those are few and far between.
I play Mount&Blade Warbands a lot. I use the crpg mod that lets players progress from 'peasant' level skill into whatever kinda skillset and getup I desire. As a result I actually see and deal with that 'peasant's dying fast' problem rather directly. And I'm fine with it. Those are kind of 'no duh' circumstances. I like my realism and I compensate for my lack of ability as a character with my ability as a player well enough that I'm not constantly getting knocked on the head and dying in one hit.
That is a world apart from aesthetic realism though. And while I want my game to look and 'feel' realistic, that's different from what the effects of using a given item or what abilities one can do is.
Point being, you can just as logically summon fire ants to worm into armor on WoW as you could to so in a more 'realistic' looking title. Putting on armor that makes you fast and invisible pretty much has nothing to do with aesthetics and everything to do with inevitable play style and game mechanics.
Now, having a game that operates within the concept of realistic mechanics is more directly tied to having more realistic aesthetics inherently. It just 'wouldn't make sense' withing such a context to do otherwise. I would assume that a more realistic game with a world full of magic would also be noted for it's lack of leniency in the extent to which it could alter physical properties, or otherwise have equal countermeasures. So one neither could make an invisible fast armor, nor could the trust that other players couldn't just as readily dispel the magic on the armor by enchanting a doorway to strip magic off anyone entering.
Games that aren't inherently realistic in gameplay don't have such an obligation to look realistic. However, that's not a license to go overboard either in my opinion.
Personally, I'd rather games develop a clear and reasonable style that can accurately reflect the nature of the player and NPCs from their visuals. This also would be the point to operate within reason. There's a skeletal structure and required body mass under every skin to think about, and creatures that defy operational morphology are a logic breaker to me if there isn't a clear reason behind it.
I'm not even averse to golems made out of floating body parts, because you can develop a reasonable excuse for it. Maybe not entirely logical, but you can insert enough to make it make sense. Like saying they generate alternating magnetic fields so that the pieces may hover in place and move freely. We can do that in real life, it's ineffective and at best can only make something float, but it's got a realistic frame of reference to draw on to make something 'more'.
So by all means, create great fantasy and sci-fi creatures, places, and items. But ground it in some rational basis if you want the visuals and actions to be believed and immersive. You can develop iconic and unique aesthetics for a realistic body form. It's honestly at it's core the application of geometric shapes to create a silhouette that defines something unique.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I think this is nice example of weapon and armor. At least in terms of their size:
[URL=http://img9.imageshack.us/i/guardianec.jpg/][IMG=http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7547/guardianec.jpg][/IMG][/URL]
Uploaded with [URL=http://imageshack.us]ImageShack.us[/URL]
The character holds his sword little incorrectly... and sword has some unnecessary elements. Also crossguard is directed the wrong way. But still looks pretty realistic
I love big weapons in the game, it makes up for my lack of size where it counts...if you know what I mean.
I kid I kid...huge oversized weapons is always an immersion breaker for me. I can deal with heavy armor, but oversized weapons that are three times my character size is rage inducing...well not far as where I start freaking out over it, but its a huge negative. From what I've seen of Guild Wars 2, thats more up my alley. Probably be my favorite in an MMO. A nice mix of realistic, but a bit of flair to it. LOTRO is nice, but none of it stood out to me...it was all bland, probably didn't help armor was painted on. Mount and Blade has the best fully realistic armor/weapons, I really like what they did with equipment there. Not as much flair as GW2, but they weren't going for that.
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