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My Temporary Hiatus - (From PvP) - Videos Included
maskedweasel
Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195
For those of you on the forums who have followed any of my postings you would know I'm no slouch when it comes to DC Universe Online. I'm fluent in the game mechanics, I know the world and most power sets like the keys on my keyboard. I've been playing DC Universe Online for nearly 4 months now, much of that time testing and submitting bug reports both in and outside of beta.
As usual with my long posts, skip ahead to the colored part if you wish to do the TL ; DR version.
Or just read the Wrap Up
This isn't a random complainers thread, talking about the UI, or the Chat, or the "limited power sets" or the "limited character customization" or issues with "content". Lets get some things straight, while the UI and Chat could use some work, the VoIP system does actually work, the chat is frustrating but functional, and the UI takes some getting used to for PC users but eventually gets the job done. I don't find the sets limited at all, I have over 250 costume styles that I can change at any one time for drastically different appearance options, and there is still content I haven't completed from the original game before the upcoming updates.
These gripes come from those that clearly wouldn't be interested in this game in the first place, but that has nothing to do with my hiatus and that brief stint touching on those other aspects is really not where I want this thread to go. It was more a point of reference to clarify that, as a player that has spent more time playing then some others have, that these "issues" have been acknowledged but have had no bearing on the enjoyment or playability of the game for me as well as many others.
To stop beating around the bush here, my hiatus is due to bugs stemming from poor programming and balancing issues most notably in PvP.
"Frame Cancelling" is apparently the "new thing" and its become rampant enough to where its completely thrown off balance for both arenas and Open World PvP. Couple that with a number of other exploits people have been using and you have a very unbalanced PvP game. Here is a short compilation of frame cancelling with some other current in-game exploits thrown in.
First kill is frame cancelling, second shot is a "godmode" exploit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzpj6Lw3fb0
Here you see a player is completely invisible and also a number of frame cancellers. (you can see this by the amount of damage strung together rapidly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv7tD8b38JM
Heres another good one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPhAEbxXLwI
I could easily keep going showing off a number of current in game exploits ranging from Legends characters frame cancelling, to camping players while they are in their spawn points, to capping areas by hanging upside down underneath them instead of standing on the points themselves, to a number of other major imbalances that seems to be pushing players into utilizing these exploits to stay competitive.
As a separate point of reference, on my server, Public Enemies, queue times have always been short, and our server has always been packed. The server population hasn't gone down, but PvP queue times are popping less frequent. Last night I waited 15 - 20 minutes for a queue to pop for Legends OR arena, and once inside, I would be accosted by at least a couple glitchers, either one on my side, or one on the other.
As I play this game primarily as a PvP player, it pains me to have to take some time off from the PvP aspects of the game until these issues are fixed. At this time, the developers still haven't acknowledged that these issues exists, going as far as to say -- "If there is an issue, it will be resolved." even after the multitude of video evidence has been sent in from me and many others.
As we're nearing the end of the month, I can't help but feel that "if there is an issue" I won't continue subscribing. We didn't have these issues a week ago, though we did have different PvP balance issues, but nothing as terribly unbalanced as this. I refuse to believe this is par for the course, and I have a feeling it will get sorted out eventually. In the meantime however, I can't continue subscribing to something where the core aspect I subscribe for can't be played. I don't do it for other games, and I won't do it here.
On the lighter side, frame cancelling has made PvE much easier for those that decide to use the exploit. You can take out bosses much quicker, and it seems Raids of glitchers are actually getting the content done. Other non-glitchers of course won't see any problems with the PvE, so that game is largely in tact. For us more hardcore (yet honorable) PvP-ers though, I think its time for a break.
Comments
Yea, I've decided the very same thing. I try to defend these games cause they are creative. They announce new content but fail to announce any of the patches for KNOWN bugs. I KNOW these were reported in Beta. Having them in live for over a month is simply sheer laziness on SOE's part.
I notice you didn't include Bane's ungodly beastiness in some of the Legends PvP. He is a MONSTER. I'm not sure ANYONE can fight against him (even the higher pvp choices). He just hits for so darned much and shuts a person DOWN. If I see Bane, that's pretty much an avoid him situation.
We'll see. There's enough MMO content coming out that I'm not stressing the game but as of now they aren't getting the LTS I had originally planned. I'll be back in 6 months and if it hasn't changed then I'll chalk it up to another failed experiement.
Edit: The frame issue I don't think was from Beta. Like you posted, it happened around the same time that League chat was perma-gimped.
I didn't mention Bane because Legends is a completely different set of problems. You have the rock throw which does insane amounts of damage, but you also have robins staff twirl which can hit for equal amounts of damage and continuously knock players back, sometimes - even while blocking.
Then harleys surprise attack does as much as banes rock throw, and you can go stealth mid-combo so its almost an instant kill once you knock them up in the air. Legends balance could probably use tweaking, but these bugs are mild in comparison. Now people use huntress and robin to frame cancel, and no amount of rock throws will fix that.
I've had a player playing as Bane go invisible on me mid-battle. You couldn't see him as he attacked you, nor could you see when or where he would throw the rock so I couldn't block it. I don't know what exactly the developers are working on -- maybe some of those cherub costumes, but these bugs are major and gamebreaking and should be fixed well before the first months renewal.
You ain't kidding...not only are you NOT a "slouch", you were the games loudest proponent here. If my memory is correct, I thought you even posted a guide here on mmorpg?!
Damn...didn't see this one coming MW. While I may dislike all things SoE, I'm sorry to see such an advocate of a game lose his desire to play it.
The way I see it there are bugs you can live with, and bugs you can't. The videos I posted show these bugs in a limited capacity here, but with as often as I PvP I see them in every facet of my play time and it kills it for me.
As I stated on the official forums, I'll likely continue leveling up alts until my time runs out. I'll be overjoyed to return the day I see some encouraging patch notes that these issues have been both acknowledged and fixed.
RadarX just locked the second huge thread on exposing the bugs. i cancelled by sub for now.
Ouch! Those are poison for this game, seeing as even people who dislike it say the PvP is good. Sony needs to get these things fixed ASAP, or the damage will be huge. Bugs are something fans can overlook and wait out, unchecked exploiting can kill any chance a game has.
Actually, exploits and devs who refuse to acknowledge them or appear to be sweeping it under the rug can kill games. Hope they are taking this seriously.
RadarX wrote:
We will be very interested to see feedback on the changes. This was a rather complex issue believe it or not and quite a few smaller bugs have been attributed to "animation glitching" which really had nothing to do with it (those have been fixed as welll by the way). Cancelling abilities and combos is necessary in many cases so it will not be removed entirely but the longer multi hit ones will be much less effective.
http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?topic_id=17399#top
Heh, thanks for getting us answers sonoggi and mw.
Good to see that SOE is being proactive. Hopefully the first fix will work, but I'm afraid they're going to half-ass it.
Playing: FFXIV, EVE
In a recent thread RadarX mentioned that there is no definite ETA on fixing these issues. When asked if they would be fixed by the 10th, RadarX couldn't commit to a time frame.
I did notice some visual glitches being fixed last night, ones that have no bearing on gameplay. I'll continue to test the situation and see if it gets any better before resub time. I'll keep this thread updated.
Crap like this is why I chose the PS3 version over the PC version. Yeah the camera movement may be ghetto on the PS3 but you don't have to worry about ridiculous hacks.
Oh? Doesn't the frame cacel work?
RadarX has already posted saying the fix is nearing completion. It should be implemented sometime in the next week or so.
The Offenders are also taking a break from PvP until this is done.
One of my fav parts of DC is it has a flag system for pvp on pve servers, so you can turn it off until issues are resolved.
The frame canceling is a issue, and I don't think the DC team is underestimating it. They just tell people NOT to give specifics on forums as to promote the glitches before the chance to fix.
Keep reporting specifics in bug reports. Don't judge what the programmers are doing based on forum mods. They have already fixed many things from beta/early release.
We'll wait and see what they put in place, when they put it in place. So far, with most patches, when they fix one problem another opens up. This frame canceling wasn't a big issue a couple weeks ago, but then we had the flight bug that would increase the damage up to 3X and the legends bugs where players would retain legends hotbars along with that characters voice and characteristics once they left legends (a video I posted earlier).
Now not only do we have the bugs listed in the OP, but also, a 3X damage bug with rifle seems to be popular that will need some tweaking. Everyone is utilizing FOTM builds now, and I can only imagine what new builds this patch will bring.
Right now its MA and sorcery/fire. That shuriken storm + transmogrification seems to be the most used exploit as its pretty easy to do. Anyways, as my hiatus has cattled me and I've been playing fallout until the developers responses show some promise, I hope you guys keep me updated if they release a fix and I happen to miss the announcement.
This is how things go when a game is rushed to market. Everything mentioned, including the things you don't mind overlooking are just symptoms of the overall problem. DCU not only needed more time, it needed way more testing and feedback before it went live.
Is anyone surprised? DCUO rushed its beta while having a large focus on PvP. There were numerous PvP 'quirks' that only started to be sorted out, then launch came along. I get a chuckle out of DCUO's original "we don't need a long beta, our game is super-fun" pose, but this is the result.
SOE was very public about "banning exploiters", but it is very clear that they aren't even aware of some of these exploits and some they can't fix quickly.
Plus, y'know, no test server, so those patches go live without player testing.
Unsub is correct, its not fully testing the patches that causes these issues. PvP was actually much more balanced on launch with no major problems. Each patch has changed things dramatically as far as the technical implications of PvP.
Yes the game was rushed, but it was never in a state where any of its core features weren't playable. Thats the major difference here. All those other things I "overlooked" could be overlooked easily as they were only minor annoyances with no lasting core gameplay issues.
As I've played for many months now, its clear that these patches they put in place (most of them server side and some, even while the servers are active) obviously need more testing as each "fix" has always had strange adverse reactions. While they will fix one of the problems it always ends up creating another issue where there wasn't before.
First it was the visual glitches, then the major reflect issues, block bugs, legends problems, which moved on to flight exploits, more legends character issues, and now more flight exploits and the frame glitching. Most of these weren't there at launch, and the first started appearing nearly through the half of the second week, but only recently has it become unbearable with the large amount of players exploiting.
No major word yet on an ETA, I spent most of my gameplaying time on Fallout NV, I really hope they get these fixes in place soon and they don't end up breaking something else. I miss Gotham already.
Are you absolutely sure these issues didn't exist before launch? It seems more likely that they just haven't been discovered /distributed during beta. Exploits like this can easily be kept under wraps in a relatively small beta community.
Originally posted by Die_Scream
Oh? Doesn't the frame cacel work?
Technically, it works on the PS3 too, but you can't macro several abilities into one keystroke, you actually have to activate them all manually.
If someone was able to pull off a 6-ability frame-cancel combo on the PS3, I might be willing to salute to his skill.
Right before I report his ass to a GM of course
What are minor annoyances and core features to you might not have the same values to the next player. Yet odds are still high that they will run into similar situations as yourself, because the game needs so much work across the board. The game needed a lot more work before release.
No, it really didn't. It needed a couple weeks more of testing while the game wasn't live, not fixes going into production on live servers that weren't fully tested.
@Naqaj
Frame canceling *could* have been there all along, but I'm fairly certain it wasn't at least in this capacity. Macroing used to have a different effect, and it wouldn't put out DPS like it is now in the same manor. Some kind of frame cancelling was likely in effect with the prior "hacks" in beta that would basically queue up a ton of abilities, but wouldn't execute more than half of them with a live connection as your combos wouldn't execute properly and you would get poor results. From what I'm to understand in beta players could circumvent this by dropping a connection then executing the macro, and so forth which would generate the desired results as well as make them invulnerable for a short time.
haha you guys on PC would totatly get owned if you were fighting on Console. After watching the video of PVP I can tell that was on PC because every one in combat was moving around very little. On Console its blinding fast cause people don't stand still.
I play on PVP server which is a first cause I generally stay off PVP server but I decided to give it a go on DCUO and I love it. I have taken down players levels higher then me and been brought down by players that higher then me. I don't care about glitch cause well I'm a Fire Tank and I have taken on players 7 levels higher then myself and even though they put up a good fight I still won...course I have also had my butt handed to me but I can win them all and its all in good fun.
Stop whinning about the glitches and just play. Just remember that player will pay for it later when they remove the glitch and they aren't as effective as you because your not using them.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You don't have the same glitches we do, and honestly, I've been playing with a controller the entire time since the game has launched (and even before launch, in beta). System performance on PC is much better than the PS3 (as I was in the PS3 beta too) the game is much faster, load times are quicker, and the graphics are much better on PC.
You're a fire tank, which is essentially the most overpowered class available right now, if you can't play a fire tank relatively well then you would have to be a really horrible player. Any new player is urged to go fire tank simply because its very easy to learn and made to stay up through healing themselves. They are essentially a tank-healer.
I've beaten plenty of players double my level, but its all relative to the skill of the player you're fighting. As its doubtful you'll never experience what the PC community offers as far as skillful players, nor can you attest to any of these glitches, saying to "stop whining" about them and play is pointless. You don't understand the frustration between players that play legitimately and those that don't. I've been playing for 4 months now, I already know once these glitches are gone that I'll be playing and winning consistently again, but in the meantime I refuse to log in or give SOE my money for a frustrating, unplayable experience.
I beat players 5-10 levels above me as fire too. It's not hard with all the self heals you get and damage potential. Oh and I play with keyboard and mouse.
I have a question for gamepad users. What buttons do you use to hit your weapon triggers? Do you use your right thumb? If so, isn't it impossible to move the camera and use your weapons at exactly the same time?
I any case, I have no trouble moving fast on keyboard and mouse. It's not like it's even possible to turn with your keyboard like in other games- the option to just isn't even there.
When you play with a controller, left thumstick is movement, right thumstick is camera, (on 360) X and Y are your combos.
When you are doing combos, alternating between X and Y it is tough to change camera angles, but its very rare that I need to look behind me while I'm in the middle of a combo.
Its actually very simple as your camera angle determines the enemy you are locked onto, so if basically I focus my camera, then attack.
A skilled player such as myself (through years of controller experience) can actually use my index finger to hit abilities on the AXYB buttons (or D-Pad) while keeping my thumbs on the control sticks. I almost never have to do that in DCUO though.