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My Xsyon Review Part 2 - PvP and Building Modified 2/04 to Add Pictures
willbonney
Member UncommonPosts: 72
Well all, since my last post really didn't do the game justice, I'm going to cover a few more "big key" elements to answer some of the questions I been getting, seemingly endlessly. I will do my best not to sound like a Xsyon or Notorious employee, but I'm sorry, my opinions are biased, I'm a hardcore Fanboi and I know it.
Character Creation
When you first start Xsyon, like most MMO's out there, you have to create a character before you are allowed to log-in. Earlier in Beta I remember being able to make 2 or 3 different characters, but currently in this version it only lets you make one. I don't know why that is, whether you will only be allowed one character per account for Live, or if it's just a Beta setting, and we'll get more later. I don't know, sorry. Continuing, you then decide the age, sec, height, weight, skin tone, complexion, hair color, hair style, eye color, and facial type (Not like the Sims here, a template head). Then, you will get to adjust your starting stats, with every stat originally at 50, and 100 more points. Unlike other games I've played, this game already brings in the Sandbox even at creation, because it doesn't make you stay with that 50 in all skills. It lets you take away points for stats you don't really want, to then add those points and the 100 others you receive to "personalize" your starting stats like you want. That's just pure WIN, because I've hardly ever seen that, think this might actually be the first time I remember doing it. Next, you will get to choose "how" your character starts. Each stat you set then affects your "ability" to perform different actions. They can be read about more, and how they affect things, in the User's Manual, there's just too much for me to go over here, and I'm not going to read it out for you.
You choose ONE crafting profession, combat style, one weapon specialty, and 2 gathering/general professions. These choices you make will then take from a "pool" of possible starter weapons, tools, and patterns to start the game with. It's "sort of" random, but sort of not based on your choices. I've listed most of the possible craft and gathering selections in another post, so will list the combat ones. First, you'll get to choose between armed combat and unarmed combat for your combat styles. I believe they are planning on adding a 2-handed and Ranged combat specialty, but I'm not 100% sure on that. Next you'll choose which type of weapon you prefer starting with. Those are:
Blades -knives not used as crafting tools, but aren't just weapons, they are also needed to be equipped in your right hand to skin and debone animal kills (as well as "scalp" a dead player), as well as needed along with a piece of flint to start a fire ---see, so much was thought out and "made" sandbox, weapons are also tools.
Axes - my personal favorite weapon, that also doubles as the tool you need to have equipped in your right hand (sorry lefties, you're all dead after this Apocolypse, no lefty tools for you) in order to chop down trees, turn the tree into large or small logs, or make firewood from those logs. Different craft tools are needed to make other stuff out of the wood, but let's not digress. They can also be used to decapitate dead animals, and yes, dead players too.
Hammers - blunt type weapons, which you'll often see with some nails stuck through them, for smashing and bashing.
Picks - Piercing type weapons, also needed to break rocks up rocks on tribal lands.
Staves - I think two handed blunt weapons, but not added to game yet.
Polearms - I think two handed piercing weapons, again not added to game yet.
I may have to add more here, because I'm not actually in game at the moment, and I think I'm forgetting one or two.
ADDED
Forgot the two defensive skills. You can opt to have better Dodge and Parry skill in game. Dodge and Parry are active skills you must use while in a fight. If you parry with no weapon in the hand you parried with, you take full damage. You can Parry with right or left, and dodge to the right or left, all with binding those skills to the keys you want. There is no "passive" skill in the game, if you want it done, you have to actually do it.
As stated before, I have heard word they plan on adding some ranged combat weapons, I have heard rumors of regular bows, as well as heavy crossbows. I don't konw the validity of these claims, but we'll see in the future.
Once you're made you're character, you're all set to play. Go into this "end of the world " Utah model, and enjoy. Level crafts, get more patterns. Scavenge the junkyards and find books for others. Make friends and join a tribe, and start digging in the ground. All the while you are leveling all the abundant skills in game, there's this bar above your "Hotbar" that is slowly rising. This is a sort of "level" bar, in which as you skill, you gain experience in it. When it is totally full, you get 10 points to put into your skills. Now, watch out here, because as you get more and more skill in that specific thing, it costs more "pool points" to level 1 point of that skill. Now, for those worried about macro'ers, well, the folks at Xsyon thought about that too. Performing the same task repeatedly will earn you less and less skill every time, to at some point reach 0, and you won't earn any experience for doing it at all, regardless of skill level. Means you might actually have to play your character to level it. *cough cough, not that I ever did that, hic-up.
PvP
There is PvP in Xsyon. There is Full Loot PvP in Xsyon. There are major "penalties" in Xsyon for PK'ing and griefing.
So, to start this, let's cover the "full loot pvp" deal. Your character has a stat called Encumbrance. It is based on your character's strength (the stronger you are the more you can carry). The In-Game items are carried one of two ways, either on your character "wearing" them, or one of your "packs." There's a number of different slots for equipment. For ease of explanation, have a picture:
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6683/userinterfacem.jpg
As you can see, every different piece of equipment in Xsyon has a slot to fit in. 6 different weapon areas (2 for large like shovels and picks, 2 for medium like blunt weapons and axes, 2 for small weapons like blades). Everyone in game can also "dual" wield, which of course means have a weapon in each hand. The polearms and staves have yet to be added in game, and I think they will be two-handed weapons. There is also "unarmed" combat in game, of which you don't even need a weapon. With all this stuff on your character, it's not really feasible to fully loot a dead player, as your encumbrance stat will go up so much, it will start slowing you down physically, both run speed and attack speed, as well as how much "energy" you use up running and performing actions. SO MUCH THOUGHT. BRAIN HURTING, MUST GET.....nice, got my pills, I'm okay now.
Now, depending on the stance of your tribe, Good, Neutral, or Evil, and based upon the "laws" your tribal leadership has set-up, SO MUCH, HURTS... killing other players can have major penalties. As in, you aren't good if you kill another good player, and you're definitely not good if you scalp them or chop a head off a dead body (cannibalism). But, if someone not of your tribe decides to try to "steal/gather" resources from your tribal lands, he's fair game, kill him. Nothing will happen to a "tribal defender," defender of the people, or defending the property.
Now, this next section I'm not yet 100% about. But the gear you wear seems to matter, there are no stats on equipment or weapons, so this is mostly guess work so far. I do know however, that not wearing a piece of equipment on a body part, and that body part gets hit in combat, you take "full damage" or there abouts. It's definitely a lot more then when getting hit on something covered up. Again, no visible 'numbers', not even how much health you have (just a green bar).
Just so much, I really could keep going. I hope these posts have helped people make up their minds about playing Xsyon. It's a great sandbox game, the most thought out one I've seen or played, and well, an emulated pre-nge/cu SWG just isn't the same.
Edited to fix picture.
Edited 2/4/2011 to add pictures.
Willbonney, a.k.a. William H Bonney, a.k.a. William Antrem, a.k.a. Billy the Kid
"I'll make ya' famous."
"Best dollar 'n eighty I ever spent."
Comments
any archery or ranged combat yet?
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No, not in Beta at all. Have heard that it won't be released until after Prelude starts, but there are plans for it in place now.
Willbonney, a.k.a. William H Bonney, a.k.a. William Antrem, a.k.a. Billy the Kid
"I'll make ya' famous."
"Best dollar 'n eighty I ever spent."
to keep in mind in prelude is the focus on re building and player trading.
Hmm, they need to rethink that. *IF* Xsyon is a MMO with a good portion of virtual reality, than ranged combat needs to be in at launch.
If I were to find myself alive in a post cataclysmic world the first thing I would do is find shelter, heat, water, food. Next I would flintknap a knife. Third I would start working on a ranged weapon of some type, any type.
No ranged combat in a survival MMO? "Rebuilding" cannot take place if you cannot survive first. Rethink, rethink.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
Nice review, Willbonney. I can confirm that every player will get only one character per account, there will be no alts. In a game with open PvP and serious PK penalties it's the only way to go.
So there's nothing in your post that explains what exactly would deter someone from griefing or PKing. What's the drawback from choosing an "evil" playstyle and simply shooting at everything that moves, just 'cause you can? I don't see any penalties for players attacking other players who may have no interest in getting into a fight. And I mean aside from the bizarre rationale that your pockets could get so full of bloody loot that your character can't move. Doesn't much strike me as a deterrant really.
True PvP FFA sandboxes and simulated realities always sound great, but they also always degenerate into chimp fests because players are never truly accountable for their actions, and they really risk nothing by attacking those who have no interest in PvP, and who are there for the simulation aspect. The whole sandbox/simulation thing just becomes tinsel for a really big battleground. I don't see how this game differs. Unless it uses perma-death and makes it impossible to determine how dangerous an adversary is before you pull the trigger. It's about the only way I know to make someone consider if maybe there's a better alternative to a shootout, without outright preventing them from doing so with a game mechanic. That way, people will tend to only risk their character if they have a pretty good reason for it, not just because there's something on their screen they can shoot at, which is mostly what FFA PvP is.
All sandboxes fail in the same department. They can mimic economic systems, physical laws, even biological principles, but they can't get people to behave civilly unless they remove the freedom to choose. And then it's just a PvE game with arenas.
I thought Eve handled PvP rules really well.
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"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
Well, glad you asked. Let's see if I can explain it well, and correctly. Every tribe has a leader. That leader chooses the "political stance" of sorts, for his tribe. Good, Neutral, Evil. When the tribe gets big enough, it then is a part of a "town," now that tribal leader is a "mayor" of sorts, and can set laws for the tribe/town. Those laws are good and evil type actions, that is set up "for or against." If a tribe/town member performs an action against the "law," he gets a "punishment" of sorts. Don't know all what they are really yet, as I have not fully tested this stuff out, but I think it's a sort of "no tribe benefits" for the first penalty, and "banished from tribe" for the worst. (Tribal benefits are "boosts" to your character for being on tribal grounds or wearing tribal colors.)
Now, the "Mayor" can choose any that he wants, but he has to try to keep things together, as in, if the tribe is good, has to set up "good" laws as much as possible, so his members have an easier time staying good themselves (there's tribal standing as well as personal.) Neutral has to try to do a bit of both, but not the "extremes" of either, and well Evil, who needs "laws" if you're evil,lol.
A "good" standing person will not get all tribal benefits in an "Evil" tribe, and if they get too good, won't be able to be in the tribe. Same goes for Evil in a Good tribe. Neutral gets funny. They can be sort of Evil, sort of Good, but not an extreme of either. In other words, you can't be too Good or too Evil. It's a sort of "faction" system, still being worked on, and we really don't know the full details yet. I think, but don't know, that Good and Evil cannot do a lot of stuff in their prospective "towns." As in, "Mayors" and other "officers" can set up quests for people to perform, in exchange for money (another system being tweaked). The money system is different for each community, and only works for that community. I personally don't know how much interaction the three "factions" can have, Good/Neutral/Evil, it's still Beta, and there's a lot of stuff they don't want to just "tell" us, even the Beta players, because they even want us to "figure it out" because we'll be players in live.
So what's Good and what's Evil? Well, killing someone just out in the world is Evil (hijacking a traveler), looting that player is even more Evil (stealing), and decapitating, deboning (yes, can take his human bones) and any act of "cannibilism" is the most Evil. Abstaining from doing any of that, is well, Good. Good actions are stuff like building something (Evil destroys, not builds), helping out a stranger, and well, don't know yet.
This whole system is still being worked on. They also wanted to have a "religion" idea, but I believe that idea got scrapped due to issues. The game is still in Beta after all, but we have (we being the players) been assured that this sort of alignment system is being set up.
Edited to add: Also, my Tribe is the "Regulators." We will be a policing force of sorts. I don't mind PK'ers, because well, that's playing the game. However, I will be taking contracts for "Targets." People can pay us to kill someone for them (in-game currency, resources, or equipment) and we will track down and kill the target. I will also have a force of "Trackers" (my term for Bounty Hunters) who will perform "Hits" for me, the Bossman. I will pay them for their efforts. Those targets will mostly be hackers, exploiters, and Forum Trolls. We won't necessarily "grief" the players who play these ways, but I will definitely try to make their game time more difficult for them.
Willbonney, a.k.a. William H Bonney, a.k.a. William Antrem, a.k.a. Billy the Kid
"I'll make ya' famous."
"Best dollar 'n eighty I ever spent."
Lots of words there, but that still doesn't explain what will deter someone from pking. By the way you described it, it sounds as though anyone can run around rampantly pking as long as they set their tribal affiliation to "evil".
Basically speaking, a truly "evil" person, will be killable by about everyone.
It's a SANDBOX, truly. There are going to be some "settings" to try to get your tribal members to play as a "team" with the same goals and views. But it doesn't prevent others from having different goals and views. It's basically leaving it up to the players of the game to "Police" themselves.
So, you're right. There more then likely won't "really" be an in-game mechanic to prevent "Evil" murderers, thieves, and vagabonds. There's player who will be willing and able to do it instead.
However, in Prelude (6-8 months of the game, we'll see what comes next), again, Tribal Zones/Cities are safe zones. Mostly, if the tribe is set up right, then the only reasons folks will have to leave the tribal areas is to gather some resources (junk piles and wood mostly), hunt animals, and well, kill each other, lol. It will be up to the towns and tribes, to patrol their areas and defend their "towns people." Again, SANDBOX.
Edited to add: Reminds me of real life quite a lot here, not having a real life mechanic to prevent "Evil" murderers, thieves, and vagabonds. But that doesn't stop people from being normally good. There are exceptions of course, and even lawyers to try to get you of trouble. We have murders, theives, and vagabonds in real life, and we'll have them in Xsyon. But we'll also have "laws," and tribal "police" to enforce them.
Willbonney, a.k.a. William H Bonney, a.k.a. William Antrem, a.k.a. Billy the Kid
"I'll make ya' famous."
"Best dollar 'n eighty I ever spent."
I hate forced PvP, cannot say how much. Still I enjoy Xsyon, and I have hope it will stay like this. Why ? I've been following the game since last March, and have seen the lead developer many times declaring that he won't let his game become a gankfest. I saw FAQ answers assuring players that this game will never be anything like Darkfall.
The game has combat mode system. You have to press a key to enter combat mode and your running speed decrease then. That means that if a PKer try to chase another player, he can't catch him. I've tried this, I can flee from any fight if I want to, as long as I don't stop to fight back. There are special cases like if I'm overweighted or out of energy, but in most of the cases I'm able to flee from every attack. Honestly, this is not the usual FFA PvP-gankfest game.
The disadvantages of being evil (aka PKer) in the game right now:
evil tribes' city isn't a safe zone, they can't be safe anywhere.
If an evil player dies he get permanent skill/stat loss penalty.
Some quotations from the lead developer :
1.Q: Will it be possible to flee from a fight with some degree of reliability, or will the lone player or tribal scout who walk into an ambush going to come out of the encounter naked?
A:You should be able to flee most of the time, especially if you've built up decent running skill and wear light armor.
2.There should be enough in place for the game to not turn into a gankfest. The intention of Xsyon is to be a fun, open, sandbox game with possibilities for all kinds of players. If the game starts to get thrown off balance by gankers, the balance will shift. Simple as that.
3. Ideally, we would have one well balanced world, where most PVP is friendly sparring (not resulting in death) and where evil players really feel like game 'monsters' but with better, unpredictable AI.
I hope it helps to the ones who have concerns about the open PvP feature of the game.
What will stop PKing/Ganking:
This game follows the "every action has an equal and oppostie reaction" rules. Basicaly, anything you think of that would be bad is bad, anything that you think would be good is good: Stealing resources in another tribes territory, bad. Assisting a downed player, good.
Evil tribes will not have any protection.
Evil players respawn at thier tribe lands (good players respawn where they died and are allowed 1 minute to move while in ghost mode) Note: This could of changed i would have to look
Evil players can be PKed at any time with no alignment affect to the killer.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
if you killed and looted a player that person could put a bounty on your head and everyone and thier grandmother will be out to get you.
I'm fairly curious about this game, especially with reading your posts and briefly looking over their forums. However, I'm extremely curious about the combat system. So far it's been kind of glossed over in everything I've read, and while I'm the type to spend more time crafting, harvesting, and building, I still want to be able to enjoy the combat. So here's my question: is this a twitch game, and if so, how much of one? In a generic game like WoW or EQ that has skill queues you end up pressing a mouse button perhaps once every second. In the twitch-based MMOs I've played before, it was more like 4+ clicks per second; every fight was so involved with clicking and constant movement that it got to be too much. I have no interest in ever playing another game where 'he who spasms the fastest upon his mouse wins'. The crafting, terraforming, and building have me very excited. So... will I be able to stand the combat system, or should I not bother?
At the moment, it needs work to be honest. Currently, there's only 1 hand melee weapons. Is free, as in you have to actively hit right mouse button to swing right, left to swing left. Have to activate your "parry" button (control I think), and hit right or left to determine which weapon to parry with (parrying with nothing in hand, still hurts). Dodge is same, hit button, mouseclick for direction of the dodge.
There is strafing too, though timing strafes to actually hit someone is both tricky, and well, hard, lol. Is more of a stand in front of each other hammering away right now.
As it works now, as you sklil your weapons skills, and dodge/parry, there is a major improvement on the animation, as well as the skill itself. As in, the leaning back/jumping out of the way deal.
According the the lead designer though, Jordi, there is plans of revisiting the combat system shortly after launch. He'll be adding 2 hand weapons, as well as ranged bows. He also wants to redesign it all to be more like a Mount and Blade system. He's been spending some time, playing htat, and reviewing it's systems. He wants mounted combat to be similar as well, where there is a true skill involved, not just button mashing.
So, to answer you question. At the moment of this post, no, the combat system isn't the best. There's still full loot PvP, weapons that scale with quality, a very good number of different types of weapons. Though the actual mechanics, no, not everyone is going to care for. I have faith though that the system will be revisited, and changed though. These guys really do seem to care about what the players want.
Remember, it still is in Beta mode.
Willbonney, a.k.a. William H Bonney, a.k.a. William Antrem, a.k.a. Billy the Kid
"I'll make ya' famous."
"Best dollar 'n eighty I ever spent."
Thank you for replying! It was informative, but unfortunately that didn't answer the question I asked and I still have the same question: is it a twitch game (and how much), and how fast are you clicking the mouse?
For now combat is fast and there is somekind of a bug in damage calculation, so it's a bit of a spamfest.
This should be fix before or shortly afet launch and when it is it'll be fun, twich-based system.
Devs will look into Mount and Blade combat sytem as community suggested and see if it can be implemented.