What also pretty silly in Rift is that you can't see what class someone is (i.e. their soul choices)
The person in plate could be a tank (reaver, warlord ), could be a tank + healer (VK), could be a melee dps (champion, etc), could be a magic dps (Riftblade) or could be a pet class (beastmaster).
>---<
This is the thing I hated most about Rift, your armor or class or calling doesn't say anything about you at all. Everyone can be anything, it's silly.
Some might think this is fun, but it also makes no sense at all.
I actually love that.
Makes PvP a lot more fun....never know what Ases may have the opponent hidden in his sleve...
I don't get why anyone is upset about the soul system. The Archetypes are just an architectual outline for how you want to play your game. I hate in WoW how that if I wanted to play a mage/rogue I would be stuck in a pure dps position and trying to max my output. Then if I played a paladin/druid/shaman and if I did comparable dps to those "pure" classes then there was a problem even if I was in a DPS specialization. I've played a paladin since Vanilla day 1 and only recently have they become decent tanks, or do any sort of comparable damage to anyone (LOLret). Unless you were amazing you were stuck as a healer, until wrath, plain and simple.
Now with Rift, I have a choice. I want to be a rogue and be sneaky? Go assassin. I want to support/heal? Go Bard. I want a pet and do ranged damage? Go ranger. I want to mother FING TANK? Go Riftstalker. I love it. I can change my specialization/main soul at a whim and be useful in a position that i feel would be best as long as I know how to play it. The character development is my own.
I'm not saying Rift is the best game, but I am glad I am given a choice. Another thing that people dont realize is this game has a lot more room for improvement just at start than any other game I've played. New class introduction? I dont have to make a completely new character to experience it. I dont expect to get it for nothing, maybe a quest line of epic proportions. I'll be satisfied.
What also pretty silly in Rift is that you can't see what class someone is (i.e. their soul choices)
The person in plate could be a tank (reaver, warlord ), could be a tank + healer (VK), could be a melee dps (champion, etc), could be a magic dps (Riftblade) or could be a pet class (beastmaster).
>---<
This is the thing I hated most about Rift, your armor or class or calling doesn't say anything about you at all. Everyone can be anything, it's silly.
Some might think this is fun, but it also makes no sense at all.
As far as I'm concerned, this is a brilliant move by Trion. This makes it very difficult for group and raid leaders to deny people access because they aren't the "EXACT" combination they are looking for. This should create a heck of a lot less stress for pick up groups and much, much less drama for raiding.
The soul system at its core is actually pretty awesome. 8 different Souls in 4 different archtypes with varying skills contained in each soul that can be mixed and matched allows a player to really build something unqiue that few others will have exactly.
BUT Trion ruined it in the end. They gave everyone the ability to own all 8 souls per archtype at the same time. While that sounds cool it means that a player doesnt actually have to commit to anything or make any real choices. Character development is a lie. To make it worse Trion also gave players the ability to save 4 builds at once that can be switched at the flick of a button. Want that FOTW build or need to drop a soul because it got nerfed? Dont worry just respec and save todays most OP build! This game screams "have your cake and eat it too."
This is basically class anarchy. Without rules and structure anything will become a mess. The negatives will always outweigh any positives. In all walks of life. IT NEVER WORKS OUT.
Its like playing a game of monopoly but throwing out the rules, letting everyone be the car, giving everyone a piece of every property, and when you pass go you get a Ecto-cooler juicebox with oreos and everyone is a winner!
The ability to create a unique class is mostly an illusion in Rift. In the end there are really only 4 classes in this game. Its going to be very apparent to everyone else soon enough once the honeymoon period ends and they realize the reality is that almost everyone is the same 4 things.
Like the old saying goes,"When everyone is special. No one is."
I disagree with everything in that post. It's an opinion post and I disagree completely with the opinions. I also question the logic that would lead you to those opinions. To the point that I have to wonder if it isn't just a clever troll post, meant to be read entirely between /sarcasm tags. (Well, I agree with the "awesome" part, but that is it).
I don't know, sure everyone can be anything in their calling at a flick of a switch, but all Trion has really done has removed the need for alts. In other MMOs you see plenty of folks broadcasting their 2+ toons that are looking for group, instead now you don't need to log out and you can keep having fun. I personally don't see the downside.
Allow me to break down the math for you. There will actually be 9 souls available to each class. You can have 3 souls per build. 3 souls slotted out of 9 options gives the possibility of 84 different soul combos per class.
That's right. 84 per class. 336 total.
And as someone previously mentioned, how you spec your 3 souls would obviously make your Druid/Warden/Sentinel so completely different from someone else's Druid/Warden/Sentinel it would be like comparing a Resto Shaman with an Enhancement Shaman.
So, to keep the WoW comparison going: WoW has 10 classes with 3 trees for each class and since patch 4.0 you are pretty much locked into one of three specs with some slight variations. Yes, a Shadow Priest with Dark Archangel will play quite a bit differently than a Shadow Priest without, which is cool, but is also an extreme example. One Discipline Priest may be better spec'd for pvp and one for pve raiding, but for the most part a Discipline Priest is still a Discipline priest.
So WoW = 30 primary tree possibilities with slight to moderate variations between one player and another of the same tree, depending on the tree we're talking about. Rift = 336 soul possibilities with considerable variations between players of the same souls depending on how they decide to spec.
I completely understand that the lack of variety in WoW may well be one of its greatest flaws, but it is still the standard that all other games are compared to so the comparison is valid. And anyone who thinks that Rift doesn't have enough options to keep a large player-base interested simply hasn't done the math.
I was pleasantly surprised when I went from Apprentice to full 5 star Elite in under 2 months. I was pleasantly surprised again when I went from Elite to just barely Hardcore in 2 weeks. Apprentice, here I come!
what soul system alowe you is to essential lvl play and imporuve up to 2 or 3 classes in same character if compared for example with WOW talent system.
You can have like stnadard dps rogue , pvp rogue ( wow has that just respec ) but in that rogue you can be healer or tank as well so you dont need to rerol if you want to try deferent and new stuff.
So its not about being special its just about having more options to play around with.
Soul system is ok. I do not like wow system of skills and spells tho but i guess that is standard today so whatever ...
This is complete nonsense; it is built on the premise that each class will only have a single viable build for a given situation.
While there are clearly archetypes within classes, such as scouts: ranged, stealth, pure dps or cc, the options and variety available to achieve a specific archetype are multi faceted; and for the first time in a long time, more balanced than I have personally seen in many years of playing mmo's. The degree of flexibility and roles available within each class is well designed, and has clearly been carefully planned to avoid must have specs.
Had there been particularly weak or strong souls within classes and only a single defined role available to each class, the op and adherents may have had a point, but this is not the case. Anyone who thinks this is going to be a problem at launch really needs to go back and take a closer look at what is available within specific classes, the roles available within each, and the way an individual may approach his build to achieve their aim, people are seeing problems where they do not exist.
I have to say, I think the complaints are more a reflection of the attitudes and preferred play styles of the posters, than any problem with rifts class design. Several posters including the op have expressed a fear at the lack of alt possibilities, and it is clear the system design also helps negate the threat of fotm builds. Personally, I suspect this is the real reason for many of these posts.
My Colour Is Vomit green, I puke on the tards with stupid colour sigs. My symbol is ,,!, O ,!,, My enemies are any prat with a colour sig, a meaningless personality test, or a pointless list of games and classes.
It boggles my mind how anyone can be AGAINST freedom of choice.
Next to that, you are underestimating me and your fellow players by not granting us any creativity nor mind of our own.
Yes, some people will always try to min-max (it's a minigame on it's own) and go with FOTM's, why does that bother you? I couldn't care less, as long as I'm having fun with the build i enjoy playing ... which might even be the FOTW.
I played and loved SWG for years ... but there was one thing i really hated about the many profession and professioin mixing .... everytime i wanted to change, i had to do the whole grind again. Trion took that mind numbing and utter useless grind away.
Playing around with roles yesterday and pleasantly surprised to see that sometimes just moving a few points around makes a huge difference in how your character plays. I'm sure theorycrafters will crunch the numbers and identify what they consider the best possible builds. However, the numbers don't take into account the experience of how the class actually plays. I'll gladly drop a few percentage points off of highest possible efficiency in order to have a custom class that fits my play style.
The total number of options is mind boggling.
Still not getting how greater variety means less options and no reward for intelligence and creativity.
The game is nothing new or exciting why waste your time and money? Let the fanboy epeen prostars trolololol away and hug their new found favorite MMO but do yourself a favor and skip this game.
The game is nothing new or exciting why waste your time and money? Let the fanboy epeen prostars trolololol away and hug their new found favorite MMO but do yourself a favor and skip this game.
The game is fun big time !! Just try the beta....and you´ll see^^
The point being, why are people wasting their time trying to pick apart every aspect of this game? It's because it is a quality game and they know they will get a reaction from posting a negative comment. There many more games out there that deserve to be criticized before Rift does. So to complain about not being able to make a 5th or 6th toon on Rift comes across as a little petty.
This is a rediculous statement. A game gives players the ability to have flexibility in their gameplay within their class, and it is a negative? Absurd.
Each of the classes has a natural inclination towards a certain role. However, the souls allow players to tweak if not completely modify this based on how they want to play. Being able to switch souls allows flexibility but it does not make it any easier to excel at a given role. A warrior specced for DPS with DPS-equipment is not going to be as effective when switching to tanking souls and using the same equipment. However, they can modify their gameplay experience, and that is worth its weight in gold to me so I don't have to have eight hundred alts.
I wonder if this is an issue of RPG fans who actually like to roleplay a little, not necessarily get ridiculously carried away, but just get into the spirit of their characters a bit, vs people who like to just have fun, but aren't that into immersion or anything like that. If you look at it as just a game, of player vs environment, or player vs player, where our characters are just tools to use as well as we can, than this will seem like a non-issue..?
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
The soul system at its core is actually pretty awesome. 8 different Souls in 4 different archtypes with varying skills contained in each soul that can be mixed and matched allows a player to really build something unqiue that few others will have exactly.
BUT Trion ruined it in the end. They gave everyone the ability to own all 8 souls per archtype at the same time. While that sounds cool it means that a player doesnt actually have to commit to anything or make any real choices. Character development is a lie. To make it worse Trion also gave players the ability to save 4 builds at once that can be switched at the flick of a button. Want that FOTW build or need to drop a soul because it got nerfed? Dont worry just respec and save todays most OP build! This game screams "have your cake and eat it too."
This is basically class anarchy. Without rules and structure anything will become a mess. The negatives will always outweigh any positives. In all walks of life. IT NEVER WORKS OUT.
Its like playing a game of monopoly but throwing out the rules, letting everyone be the car, giving everyone a piece of every property, and when you pass go you get a Ecto-cooler juicebox with oreos and everyone is a winner!
The ability to create a unique class is mostly an illusion in Rift. In the end there are really only 4 classes in this game. Its going to be very apparent to everyone else soon enough once the honeymoon period ends and they realize the reality is that almost everyone is the same 4 things.
Like the old saying goes,"When everyone is special. No one is."
Uh, that is actually the best thing with Rift. The more way you can spec a character the better. Most MMOs have very rigid classes that you can spec a little different just, here you have a lot.
If Rift is failing something it is it's linear gameplay and boring quests, the customization system is the secvond best around after Guildwars. That you can change between builds changes nothing.
In GW you can more or less have any skill in the game on your character, you can make really weird and fun specs in it. Rift isn't that flexible but still very good.
I'm not seeing the problem. If you are a raider you will have 1 or 2 builds that you will use for raids and swap depending on FOTM which leaves 1 or 2 builds for random PvP or just feel fun in everyday killing.
If you are a PvPer you will have 1-2 builds that are FOTM and 1-2 builds you can mess around with for fun.
Again I dont see the problem. They gave you the ability to have the OP spec at the time AND a fun spec. I'm an altoholic and I like this.
It boggles my mind how anyone can be AGAINST freedom of choice.
Blame this on the principle of "Dungeon Running" for gear.
When a game's developers make it so you have to run the same dungeon many, many times for gear, what do players do? They focus on efficiency, so the grind is as simple as possible.
Players then set about to find the most "efficient" class build for running a particular dungeon, discouraging the "inefficient" builds because they feel no need -- and why should they? The whole point is to grind for gear, not RP.
If Trion can get away from dungeon running for gear, or can find at least several combos of classes that are not clearly the 'more efficient', this 'flexibility" thing might have a shot.
Otherwise, expect more of the same problems that past games have had.
The soul system at its core is actually pretty awesome. 8 different Souls in 4 different archtypes with varying skills contained in each soul that can be mixed and matched allows a player to really build something unqiue that few others will have exactly.
BUT Trion ruined it in the end. They gave everyone the ability to own all 8 souls per archtype at the same time. While that sounds cool it means that a player doesnt actually have to commit to anything or make any real choices. Character development is a lie. To make it worse Trion also gave players the ability to save 4 builds at once that can be switched at the flick of a button. Want that FOTW build or need to drop a soul because it got nerfed? Dont worry just respec and save todays most OP build! This game screams "have your cake and eat it too."
This is basically class anarchy. Without rules and structure anything will become a mess. The negatives will always outweigh any positives. In all walks of life. IT NEVER WORKS OUT.
Its like playing a game of monopoly but throwing out the rules, letting everyone be the car, giving everyone a piece of every property, and when you pass go you get a Ecto-cooler juicebox with oreos and everyone is a winner!
The ability to create a unique class is mostly an illusion in Rift. In the end there are really only 4 classes in this game. Its going to be very apparent to everyone else soon enough once the honeymoon period ends and they realize the reality is that almost everyone is the same 4 things.
Like the old saying goes,"When everyone is special. No one is."
Surely this post is in jest. It must be. There is no way the OP seriously made such sweeping statements of doom and anarchy with regards to other players not being pigeonholed by their choices. Darn Trion and their desire to offer flexibility.
I know right? How dare they give us a multitude of choices!! We should all be stuck in one class and like it!!!
The best class builds will not be the only viable ones as long as there is some class balance.
Class balance don't have to be crystal clear perfect. Just close so that people can be caught in their pve build on a pvp server and still put up a fight. Team pvp also helps balance out not so perfect class balance. But if a class is WAY overpowered then even team pvp can do nothing to balance it.
Right now the game is beta and some classes have their dps increased by 3x to 4x. Way out of line from the rest of their own calling counterparts.
Other than this I don't have any other gripes with the game. I love playing Rift because of the huge polished world with so many quests and class combinations. I love the graphics and art style choice they made for the game. I love the combat system because I loved wow's combat system (circle strafe, line of sight, good network code, channel ability interrupts, CC). I love the races you can play and the story of Telara because of all the rift invasions and themes that go along with each type and other factions in the world that are at war with each other and so it's got lots of conflict and goals you want to achieve in the game. I could just go on forever about this game.
I just hope Trion doesn't try anything stupid like letting some classes just oneshot everything after release.
I'm talking about the Warrior Riftblade, but I'm sure there are others in the other 3 callings.
At level 34 which is what level I am now in beta, Riftblades can oneshot anyone even when they have a healbot in pvp in only 5 seconds because flamespear currently has 4 times the damage it's supposed to do. Example: Level 1 Paragon, Champion, all tank classes, all do about 20ish dps. Beastmaster does a little more because the pet adds do their own dps, like +10 to 15 more. Riftblade does the same dps until they get flamespear at level 3, where their dps skyrockets to 4x. This remains consistent up to level 34 compared to all other warrior classes. They even get a movement snare and can solo elite bosses that could 3 shot them if the boss could just ever catch up to them. Anyone who plays a Riftblade right now and thinks they are good at the game... lol. Yeah, you do that... enjoy yourself... Just know that right now you are basically walking around with quad damage turned on. I will possibly lose hope and quit Rift if Trion lets stuff like this in to launch. I wonder if any other callings like this or if any other classes have huge loop holes in their dps. I know that mine doesn't. At least from 1 to 34, paragon is completely fair and balanced. It doesn't even get good dps until level 16+.
The soul system at its core is actually pretty awesome. 8 different Souls in 4 different archtypes with varying skills contained in each soul that can be mixed and matched allows a player to really build something unqiue that few others will have exactly.
BUT Trion ruined it in the end. They gave everyone the ability to own all 8 souls per archtype at the same time. While that sounds cool it means that a player doesnt actually have to commit to anything or make any real choices. Character development is a lie. To make it worse Trion also gave players the ability to save 4 builds at once that can be switched at the flick of a button. Want that FOTW build or need to drop a soul because it got nerfed? Dont worry just respec and save todays most OP build! This game screams "have your cake and eat it too."
This is basically class anarchy. Without rules and structure anything will become a mess. The negatives will always outweigh any positives. In all walks of life. IT NEVER WORKS OUT.
Its like playing a game of monopoly but throwing out the rules, letting everyone be the car, giving everyone a piece of every property, and when you pass go you get a Ecto-cooler juicebox with oreos and everyone is a winner!
The ability to create a unique class is mostly an illusion in Rift. In the end there are really only 4 classes in this game. Its going to be very apparent to everyone else soon enough once the honeymoon period ends and they realize the reality is that almost everyone is the same 4 things.
Like the old saying goes,"When everyone is special. No one is."
I was thinking about this alot when I first read it and at first I didn't agree with your opinion. However, I am starting to think you do have some valid points. I think a good compromise would be to limit the builds one can have on 1 character to maybe 1 or 2 with 1 PvP soul. That would be a total of 4 to 7 souls. I will feedback it on beta forums.
I like having all soul options available at an early level. It gives the excitement of experiencing a completely new "flavor" within my calling... while leveling. It makes questing/pvp/rifting so much more fun and enjoyable. It also deters the need to make an alt... that I may find later I dont like as much.
While I will probably be using 1 or 2 of my builds the most by endgame... I anticipate the soul system will end up giving me a variety of ways I am able to play within a healer calling.. whether I want to be a more defensive healer w/ higher survivability, ranged caster healer w/ some cc abilities, or a melee dps support healer. Breaking it down further to healing style preference... pure mobile hot/ae hot healer, direct heal/groupheal focused or a balance of both. While playstyle dynamics at engame- as it pertains to soul swapping - is still yet to be discovered.. I'd anticipate there will not be one "ideal" type of healer, only because every encounter is different.
I briefly had this impression Rift's soul system was going to diminsh the overall originality of the individual characters. After all, you get all 8 souls (9 if you count the PvP soul) you can switch rapidly between 4 roles, this means everybody's going to have the same roles, right?
Not so - it comes down to the more intimate details of the the point system. The thing is, by the time you cap out level 50, you're only going to have enough points to fully slot out one class and have enough left over to slot out half of another class. Or perhaps you want ot spread them around more than that, eschewing access to the deeper root powers in exchange for nitpicking a few branch powers you want. However, you can't play all the souls at once, you need to pick some to fill your roles, and no matter what you're only going to play one role at any specific time.
So, ultimately, decisions will have to be made on behalf of the players which will result in some uniqueness of their characters. Which souls you pick is going to be a reflection of what you like doing the most. Whether you bother to set up additional roles will be a part of that.
I respect the OP's post however I really see this as one of the strong positive points of Rift.
Other games (I won't mention here) make you pay fairly large amounts of currency to reset your talents, or add additional specs, or force you to wait til you are a good way into the game to be granted the privilege of trying something different.
I love that with Rift it was very easy to try out many different aspects of the Warrior calling to find what I like. I personally wouldn't care if a Riftblade/Beastmaster/Paladin turned out to be the uber build... I'm playing the game to build my idea of a great warrior and that isn't it. To be given such variety and freedom is great. To be able to come along on a raid or go PvP without constantly needing to spend money or visit a trainer is also great.
I see your concerns, but I think it's really too early to tell if Trion has made a mistake. My money is on your average player loving this part of the game mechanics though.
Cheers.
You will never reach your destination if you stop and throw stones at every dog that barks ~ WC
Comments
I actually love that.
Makes PvP a lot more fun....never know what Ases may have the opponent hidden in his sleve...
I don't get why anyone is upset about the soul system. The Archetypes are just an architectual outline for how you want to play your game. I hate in WoW how that if I wanted to play a mage/rogue I would be stuck in a pure dps position and trying to max my output. Then if I played a paladin/druid/shaman and if I did comparable dps to those "pure" classes then there was a problem even if I was in a DPS specialization. I've played a paladin since Vanilla day 1 and only recently have they become decent tanks, or do any sort of comparable damage to anyone (LOLret). Unless you were amazing you were stuck as a healer, until wrath, plain and simple.
Now with Rift, I have a choice. I want to be a rogue and be sneaky? Go assassin. I want to support/heal? Go Bard. I want a pet and do ranged damage? Go ranger. I want to mother FING TANK? Go Riftstalker. I love it. I can change my specialization/main soul at a whim and be useful in a position that i feel would be best as long as I know how to play it. The character development is my own.
I'm not saying Rift is the best game, but I am glad I am given a choice. Another thing that people dont realize is this game has a lot more room for improvement just at start than any other game I've played. New class introduction? I dont have to make a completely new character to experience it. I dont expect to get it for nothing, maybe a quest line of epic proportions. I'll be satisfied.
As far as I'm concerned, this is a brilliant move by Trion. This makes it very difficult for group and raid leaders to deny people access because they aren't the "EXACT" combination they are looking for. This should create a heck of a lot less stress for pick up groups and much, much less drama for raiding.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
I disagree with everything in that post. It's an opinion post and I disagree completely with the opinions. I also question the logic that would lead you to those opinions. To the point that I have to wonder if it isn't just a clever troll post, meant to be read entirely between /sarcasm tags. (Well, I agree with the "awesome" part, but that is it).
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I don't know, sure everyone can be anything in their calling at a flick of a switch, but all Trion has really done has removed the need for alts. In other MMOs you see plenty of folks broadcasting their 2+ toons that are looking for group, instead now you don't need to log out and you can keep having fun. I personally don't see the downside.
Allow me to break down the math for you. There will actually be 9 souls available to each class. You can have 3 souls per build. 3 souls slotted out of 9 options gives the possibility of 84 different soul combos per class.
That's right. 84 per class. 336 total.
And as someone previously mentioned, how you spec your 3 souls would obviously make your Druid/Warden/Sentinel so completely different from someone else's Druid/Warden/Sentinel it would be like comparing a Resto Shaman with an Enhancement Shaman.
So, to keep the WoW comparison going: WoW has 10 classes with 3 trees for each class and since patch 4.0 you are pretty much locked into one of three specs with some slight variations. Yes, a Shadow Priest with Dark Archangel will play quite a bit differently than a Shadow Priest without, which is cool, but is also an extreme example. One Discipline Priest may be better spec'd for pvp and one for pve raiding, but for the most part a Discipline Priest is still a Discipline priest.
So WoW = 30 primary tree possibilities with slight to moderate variations between one player and another of the same tree, depending on the tree we're talking about. Rift = 336 soul possibilities with considerable variations between players of the same souls depending on how they decide to spec.
I completely understand that the lack of variety in WoW may well be one of its greatest flaws, but it is still the standard that all other games are compared to so the comparison is valid. And anyone who thinks that Rift doesn't have enough options to keep a large player-base interested simply hasn't done the math.
I was pleasantly surprised when I went from Apprentice to full 5 star Elite in under 2 months. I was pleasantly surprised again when I went from Elite to just barely Hardcore in 2 weeks. Apprentice, here I come!
you are missing the point
what soul system alowe you is to essential lvl play and imporuve up to 2 or 3 classes in same character if compared for example with WOW talent system.
You can have like stnadard dps rogue , pvp rogue ( wow has that just respec ) but in that rogue you can be healer or tank as well so you dont need to rerol if you want to try deferent and new stuff.
So its not about being special its just about having more options to play around with.
Soul system is ok. I do not like wow system of skills and spells tho but i guess that is standard today so whatever ...
Mortal in body
Eternal In Will
This is complete nonsense; it is built on the premise that each class will only have a single viable build for a given situation.
While there are clearly archetypes within classes, such as scouts: ranged, stealth, pure dps or cc, the options and variety available to achieve a specific archetype are multi faceted; and for the first time in a long time, more balanced than I have personally seen in many years of playing mmo's. The degree of flexibility and roles available within each class is well designed, and has clearly been carefully planned to avoid must have specs.
Had there been particularly weak or strong souls within classes and only a single defined role available to each class, the op and adherents may have had a point, but this is not the case. Anyone who thinks this is going to be a problem at launch really needs to go back and take a closer look at what is available within specific classes, the roles available within each, and the way an individual may approach his build to achieve their aim, people are seeing problems where they do not exist.
I have to say, I think the complaints are more a reflection of the attitudes and preferred play styles of the posters, than any problem with rifts class design. Several posters including the op have expressed a fear at the lack of alt possibilities, and it is clear the system design also helps negate the threat of fotm builds. Personally, I suspect this is the real reason for many of these posts.
My Colour Is Vomit green, I puke on the tards with stupid colour sigs. My symbol is ,,!, O ,!,, My enemies are any prat with a colour sig, a meaningless personality test, or a pointless list of games and classes.
Regards Hexcaliber
It boggles my mind how anyone can be AGAINST freedom of choice.
Next to that, you are underestimating me and your fellow players by not granting us any creativity nor mind of our own.
Yes, some people will always try to min-max (it's a minigame on it's own) and go with FOTM's, why does that bother you? I couldn't care less, as long as I'm having fun with the build i enjoy playing ... which might even be the FOTW.
I played and loved SWG for years ... but there was one thing i really hated about the many profession and professioin mixing .... everytime i wanted to change, i had to do the whole grind again. Trion took that mind numbing and utter useless grind away.
Playing around with roles yesterday and pleasantly surprised to see that sometimes just moving a few points around makes a huge difference in how your character plays. I'm sure theorycrafters will crunch the numbers and identify what they consider the best possible builds. However, the numbers don't take into account the experience of how the class actually plays. I'll gladly drop a few percentage points off of highest possible efficiency in order to have a custom class that fits my play style.
The total number of options is mind boggling.
Still not getting how greater variety means less options and no reward for intelligence and creativity.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
The game is nothing new or exciting why waste your time and money? Let the fanboy epeen prostars trolololol away and hug their new found favorite MMO but do yourself a favor and skip this game.
The game is fun big time !! Just try the beta....and you´ll see^^
The point being, why are people wasting their time trying to pick apart every aspect of this game? It's because it is a quality game and they know they will get a reaction from posting a negative comment. There many more games out there that deserve to be criticized before Rift does. So to complain about not being able to make a 5th or 6th toon on Rift comes across as a little petty.
This is a rediculous statement. A game gives players the ability to have flexibility in their gameplay within their class, and it is a negative? Absurd.
Each of the classes has a natural inclination towards a certain role. However, the souls allow players to tweak if not completely modify this based on how they want to play. Being able to switch souls allows flexibility but it does not make it any easier to excel at a given role. A warrior specced for DPS with DPS-equipment is not going to be as effective when switching to tanking souls and using the same equipment. However, they can modify their gameplay experience, and that is worth its weight in gold to me so I don't have to have eight hundred alts.
I wonder if this is an issue of RPG fans who actually like to roleplay a little, not necessarily get ridiculously carried away, but just get into the spirit of their characters a bit, vs people who like to just have fun, but aren't that into immersion or anything like that. If you look at it as just a game, of player vs environment, or player vs player, where our characters are just tools to use as well as we can, than this will seem like a non-issue..?
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Uh, that is actually the best thing with Rift. The more way you can spec a character the better. Most MMOs have very rigid classes that you can spec a little different just, here you have a lot.
If Rift is failing something it is it's linear gameplay and boring quests, the customization system is the secvond best around after Guildwars. That you can change between builds changes nothing.
In GW you can more or less have any skill in the game on your character, you can make really weird and fun specs in it. Rift isn't that flexible but still very good.
I'm not seeing the problem. If you are a raider you will have 1 or 2 builds that you will use for raids and swap depending on FOTM which leaves 1 or 2 builds for random PvP or just feel fun in everyday killing.
If you are a PvPer you will have 1-2 builds that are FOTM and 1-2 builds you can mess around with for fun.
Again I dont see the problem. They gave you the ability to have the OP spec at the time AND a fun spec. I'm an altoholic and I like this.
Blame this on the principle of "Dungeon Running" for gear.
When a game's developers make it so you have to run the same dungeon many, many times for gear, what do players do? They focus on efficiency, so the grind is as simple as possible.
Players then set about to find the most "efficient" class build for running a particular dungeon, discouraging the "inefficient" builds because they feel no need -- and why should they? The whole point is to grind for gear, not RP.
If Trion can get away from dungeon running for gear, or can find at least several combos of classes that are not clearly the 'more efficient', this 'flexibility" thing might have a shot.
Otherwise, expect more of the same problems that past games have had.
I know right? How dare they give us a multitude of choices!! We should all be stuck in one class and like it!!!
The best class builds will not be the only viable ones as long as there is some class balance.
Class balance don't have to be crystal clear perfect. Just close so that people can be caught in their pve build on a pvp server and still put up a fight. Team pvp also helps balance out not so perfect class balance. But if a class is WAY overpowered then even team pvp can do nothing to balance it.
Right now the game is beta and some classes have their dps increased by 3x to 4x. Way out of line from the rest of their own calling counterparts.
Other than this I don't have any other gripes with the game. I love playing Rift because of the huge polished world with so many quests and class combinations. I love the graphics and art style choice they made for the game. I love the combat system because I loved wow's combat system (circle strafe, line of sight, good network code, channel ability interrupts, CC). I love the races you can play and the story of Telara because of all the rift invasions and themes that go along with each type and other factions in the world that are at war with each other and so it's got lots of conflict and goals you want to achieve in the game. I could just go on forever about this game.
I just hope Trion doesn't try anything stupid like letting some classes just oneshot everything after release.
I'm talking about the Warrior Riftblade, but I'm sure there are others in the other 3 callings.
At level 34 which is what level I am now in beta, Riftblades can oneshot anyone even when they have a healbot in pvp in only 5 seconds because flamespear currently has 4 times the damage it's supposed to do. Example: Level 1 Paragon, Champion, all tank classes, all do about 20ish dps. Beastmaster does a little more because the pet adds do their own dps, like +10 to 15 more. Riftblade does the same dps until they get flamespear at level 3, where their dps skyrockets to 4x. This remains consistent up to level 34 compared to all other warrior classes. They even get a movement snare and can solo elite bosses that could 3 shot them if the boss could just ever catch up to them. Anyone who plays a Riftblade right now and thinks they are good at the game... lol. Yeah, you do that... enjoy yourself... Just know that right now you are basically walking around with quad damage turned on. I will possibly lose hope and quit Rift if Trion lets stuff like this in to launch. I wonder if any other callings like this or if any other classes have huge loop holes in their dps. I know that mine doesn't. At least from 1 to 34, paragon is completely fair and balanced. It doesn't even get good dps until level 16+.
I was thinking about this alot when I first read it and at first I didn't agree with your opinion. However, I am starting to think you do have some valid points. I think a good compromise would be to limit the builds one can have on 1 character to maybe 1 or 2 with 1 PvP soul. That would be a total of 4 to 7 souls. I will feedback it on beta forums.
I like having all soul options available at an early level. It gives the excitement of experiencing a completely new "flavor" within my calling... while leveling. It makes questing/pvp/rifting so much more fun and enjoyable. It also deters the need to make an alt... that I may find later I dont like as much.
While I will probably be using 1 or 2 of my builds the most by endgame... I anticipate the soul system will end up giving me a variety of ways I am able to play within a healer calling.. whether I want to be a more defensive healer w/ higher survivability, ranged caster healer w/ some cc abilities, or a melee dps support healer. Breaking it down further to healing style preference... pure mobile hot/ae hot healer, direct heal/groupheal focused or a balance of both. While playstyle dynamics at engame- as it pertains to soul swapping - is still yet to be discovered.. I'd anticipate there will not be one "ideal" type of healer, only because every encounter is different.
I briefly had this impression Rift's soul system was going to diminsh the overall originality of the individual characters. After all, you get all 8 souls (9 if you count the PvP soul) you can switch rapidly between 4 roles, this means everybody's going to have the same roles, right?
Not so - it comes down to the more intimate details of the the point system. The thing is, by the time you cap out level 50, you're only going to have enough points to fully slot out one class and have enough left over to slot out half of another class. Or perhaps you want ot spread them around more than that, eschewing access to the deeper root powers in exchange for nitpicking a few branch powers you want. However, you can't play all the souls at once, you need to pick some to fill your roles, and no matter what you're only going to play one role at any specific time.
So, ultimately, decisions will have to be made on behalf of the players which will result in some uniqueness of their characters. Which souls you pick is going to be a reflection of what you like doing the most. Whether you bother to set up additional roles will be a part of that.
I respect the OP's post however I really see this as one of the strong positive points of Rift.
Other games (I won't mention here) make you pay fairly large amounts of currency to reset your talents, or add additional specs, or force you to wait til you are a good way into the game to be granted the privilege of trying something different.
I love that with Rift it was very easy to try out many different aspects of the Warrior calling to find what I like. I personally wouldn't care if a Riftblade/Beastmaster/Paladin turned out to be the uber build... I'm playing the game to build my idea of a great warrior and that isn't it. To be given such variety and freedom is great. To be able to come along on a raid or go PvP without constantly needing to spend money or visit a trainer is also great.
I see your concerns, but I think it's really too early to tell if Trion has made a mistake. My money is on your average player loving this part of the game mechanics though.
Cheers.
You will never reach your destination if you stop and throw stones at every dog that barks
~ WC