The public stress testing (off and on) of WoW began in early 2004.
2004: WoW
(all the games inbetween that tried to appeal to WoW's market)
2011: WoW
Why is it that all new MMORPGs are always measured (even before they are released) in how similar they are to WoW?
In earlier years, I never felt as though one MMO was similar to another. Not once did I find AO similar to DAOC, or SWG similar to either of those. They all felt fresh and very different than any previous MMO I had played, and there was never any feeling that the game was designed specifically to appeal to a sudden market boom focused around another competing game.
After all these years, It would be nice to have a new game that offers a deeper, more rewarding, and challenging experience. A mmorpg without training wheels, one where not every player is a winner and requires one to do more than press a button to effortlessly get gear.
Funny, I remember looking on EQ and thinking it was rather similar to Meridian 59 in 1999 already. Humans compare things with eachother, it is how out brain works.
But it is true that the MMO market have evolved very little the last 6 or so years. The reason for that is that Wow almost had monopoly on the market and monopoly never is good for the consumers, the company having it only need to improve the product enough to keep the customers hooked.
But it is rather pathetic in all that time no AAA company even tried to make something a lot better. The next 2 years are rather critical for the future of MMOs. Several new thinking games are competing against what we seen the last 6 years and some that are a bit in between. So either the whole thing changes in a blink of an eye (well, for MMO devs at least) or we will get another 6 years more or less the same.
Heck, I will buy GW2 and WoDO even if I would hate them just to support different AAA MMOs.
And, if Rift and SWTOR are hits, it'll mean more years of stagnation. There's been innovation in the market (Darkfall) but it hasn't been done by any big companies, so no..the MMO genre is indeed moving backwards, has been for a good 6 years now. Yes, people do compare things, but honestly... with MMos back then you couldn't say (ok that's EverQuest with battlegrounds) the way you can with modern MMOs (Oh, that's just WoW with rift). Games felt massively different from one another. Each had its own learning curve. The lack of any learning curves or unique features in modern MMOs is a testament to how far we've fallen.
Even now, modern MMOs have about 1/4 the features of old MMOs. Backwards, very backwards. Where's my naval combat? My sieges? My housing? My econ/crafting system? My balance between raiding and PvP end game? Where's my good game design that had no need of instances?
Stating opinion as fact makes this all pointless. I don't find Darkfall to be innovating. Lore, rehashed, combat, rehashed, leveling mish-mosh of rehash. What do they bring to the table that other games do not? Nothing much, but you like it, which is all that should matter to you. Focusing on what others like and shaking your fist at the sky in ager seems petty.
Envy is the most stupid of vices, for there is no single advantage to be gained from it.
I'm starting to think this is all we've talked about for seven years. Of course games have changed over the years.
Changed? Yes of course they have. Progressed? That is a matter of opinion.
If it's all subjective then it's just people expousing their opinion. No room for debate there.
Why is there no room for debate if its subjective? But my point is you say that the games have changed over the years as an objective and correct fact as if that fact ended the debate, but it wasn't about change which would have been an objective fact, it was about the subjective perception of if mmo's progressed. And each person can say why they think the genre has progressed or not, and why. And people can discuss those opinions if they choose.
I think what has changed is that the business of MMO's has regressed. Too many company trying to capture WoW's success and not enough of them trying to find their own niche in the market. Some companies have done this. Love or hate STO they never set out to make a game that rivaled WoW, but they still failed in other ways.
Well if you look at all MMOs as whole there is plenty of progression. Examples: Darkfall, MortalOnline, even Warhammer have progressed the genre. I think the problem is gamers really don't like change. The games with the most innovation and REALLY progress the genre are never the favorites.
Well if you look at all MMOs as whole there is plenty of progression. Examples: Darkfall, MortalOnline, even Warhammer have progressed the genre. I think the problem is gamers really don't like change. The games with the most innovation and REALLY progress the genre are never the favorites.
Well I think in the case of Darkfall and MO people who enjoy those game styles consider these progressions, but they don't offer a lot for the hordes of PvE centeric players. These are good examples of the niche games that I talked about though, great examples of companies who realize that you don't have to have 12 mil subs to make a profit.
I see potential for MMOs that are just simply never made. I mean.... The Mechwarrior franchise had something going. Partially a shooter with giant customizable robots that required tactics. Now add that with some EVE type mechanics and add some MMO elements and you could have a character with with classes similar to a Star Wars MMO and when it really hit the fan you could go to war and then the MMO would shift to the tactical/shooter elements. Have the various Houses compete and capture planets which gives your faction an advantage in customizing Mechs. I don't think I'll ever see a game like that but I'm sure it would sell and keep interest if done right. However, I'd want the Mechs to perform like they did before Microsoft bought the title and ruined it. Dropship raids of mechs on a planet would be Epic.
I think there are also a couple sleeper MMOs out there that are being developed such as the World of Darkness. Guild Wars 2 is experimenting and I like how they wrap the story around the actions of the character which I think all MMOs should do to some degree. MMOs really need to get rid of the leash and the habit of leading players around. I'd like to see some sandbox elements brought back. Now.... If only we could have a Fallout MMO.
Well if you look at all MMOs as whole there is plenty of progression. Examples: Darkfall, MortalOnline, even Warhammer have progressed the genre. I think the problem is gamers really don't like change. The games with the most innovation and REALLY progress the genre are never the favorites.
Darkfall and MO are indie games. That is where the ONLY innovation has come from. It has not progressed to the mainstream, therefore the innovations don't really matter, because core AAA MMOs ignore them.
AAA MMORPGs have been moving steadily backwards.
Back in theMMO Golden Age, the innovative games DID become favorites. Eve, SWG, EQ, DAoC, were all adored, and all were insanely innovative and well loved.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Well if you look at all MMOs as whole there is plenty of progression. Examples: Darkfall, MortalOnline, even Warhammer have progressed the genre. I think the problem is gamers really don't like change. The games with the most innovation and REALLY progress the genre are never the favorites.
Darkfall and MO are indie games. That is where the ONLY innovation has come from. It has not progressed to the mainstream, therefore the innovations don't really matter, because core AAA MMOs ignore them.
AAA MMORPGs have been moving steadily backwards.
Back in theMMO Golden Age, the innovative games DID become favorites. Eve, SWG, EQ, DAoC, were all adored, and all were insanely innovative and well loved.
If you want to see progression in AAA titles you have already. Sandbox were a thing of the past and now games are more linear/theme park. Thats what makes money. Wether you like it or not THAT is progress. Forward is not always the way you might like. All the games you mentioned are old games that in their time brought progression. when I think progression I think, UI, controls, gameplay, programming, graphics, and overall presentation. So imo MMO's have progressed.
It isn't that hard to be innovative when there's less than 10 MMORPG's around.
Try to do the same trick when there's hundreds around, when the genre has become established and isn't in its pioneering stage anymore.
Exactly, there used to be only a few MMO's around. So when something new came out it was innnovative and new. Its really hard to do that when the market is so saturated. Progression is there its just not as noticeable as it once was.
It isn't that hard to be innovative when there's less than 10 MMORPG's around.
Try to do the same trick when there's hundreds around, when the genre has become established and isn't in its pioneering stage anymore.
Exactly, there used to be only a few MMO's around. So when something new came out it was innnovative and new. Its really hard to do that when the market is so saturated. Progression is there its just not as noticeable as it once was.
Well said MMO.Maverick
This logic doesn't work at all, sorry.
First off, there were a LOT of MMORPGs out at the time, and new ideas were around every corner. Innovation was everywhere.
You're saying that's harder now because there are so many MMOs? How? Why is it harder to come up with new ideas now? There are thousands of RPGs, and more releasing every year, yet still they manage to come out with RPGs that have no innovative unique ideas.
New ideas aren't a well that has suddenly run dry because there are a lot more games now. But, if we were to imagine that that is a creativity well... it's still sitting there untapped. Because despite the fact that there are a lot more MMOs now, they keep using the same exact idea (WoW) so that creativity is still untapped.
So sorry, think of a new excuse as to why the last 7 years have seen a SINGLE innovation from AAA MMOs, public quests.
Well if you look at all MMOs as whole there is plenty of progression. Examples: Darkfall, MortalOnline, even Warhammer have progressed the genre. I think the problem is gamers really don't like change. The games with the most innovation and REALLY progress the genre are never the favorites.
Darkfall and MO are indie games. That is where the ONLY innovation has come from. It has not progressed to the mainstream, therefore the innovations don't really matter, because core AAA MMOs ignore them.
AAA MMORPGs have been moving steadily backwards.
Back in theMMO Golden Age, the innovative games DID become favorites. Eve, SWG, EQ, DAoC, were all adored, and all were insanely innovative and well loved.
If you want to see progression in AAA titles you have already. Sandbox were a thing of the past and now games are more linear/theme park. Thats what makes money. Wether you like it or not THAT is progress. Forward is not always the way you might like. All the games you mentioned are old games that in their time brought progression. when I think progression I think, UI, controls, gameplay, programming, graphics, and overall presentation. So imo MMO's have progressed.
Progress implies that things are getting bigger and better and getting more things added to it.
I believe the word you're looking for is regression. MMOs have regressed. There I fixed it for you.
But going by you definition of progress.. graphics haven't gotten a ton better. The same UI is used in every game. The same gameplay is used in every game. Programming is getting worse, we can do less in modern MMOs than we could in older MMOs. So.. yeahh...
Finally someone not trying to be "original", but trying to make the original ideas right, make them really work.
It had a gorgeous complex combat system with many new ideas in it, classes that "felt right", a large completely seamless noninstanced game world with extreme amounts of quests and noninstanced housing, all kinds of secondary content (crafting, harvest, diplomacy, fishing etc) as well.
And all the standards (many races, many classes, full guild support, guild halls, raiding, ...).
Unfortunately, it died from too early release and underfunding and their aftereffects, like low player population and small developer team.
Other than that, SWTOR is trying to have massive high quality content and thus making away with the boring grind found in many games. I dont know how well it will succeed, really. Main issue is: no release in asia, no console support. So how exactly can this be the extreme success necessary to fund a large developer team for producing high amounts of even more content necessary to get away from grind-y-ness ?
Finally someone not trying to be "original", but trying to make the original ideas right, make them really work.
It had a gorgeous complex combat system with many new ideas in it, classes that "felt right", a large completely seamless noninstanced game world with extreme amounts of quests and noninstanced housing, all kinds of secondary content (crafting, harvest, diplomacy, fishing etc) as well.
And all the standards (many races, many classes, full guild support, guild halls, raiding, ...).
Unfortunately, it died from too early release and underfunding and their aftereffects, like low player population and small developer team.
EVE, DarkFall etc is doing their own innovation. Despite the half-done-feature of CCP, there are plenty of innovation (it just lacks polish) from when it first launched.
Whether the changes are suited to your personal taste is another issue, but to say the genre hasn't moved forward for the past 7 years is wrong.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
The public stress testing (off and on) of WoW began in early 2004.
2004: WoW
(all the games inbetween that tried to appeal to WoW's market)
2011: WoW
Why is it that all new MMORPGs are always measured (even before they are released) in how similar they are to WoW?
One answer, "too similar to WoW" comes to mind, because who still wants to play that?. It also means your average MMO gamer will eventually go crawling back to WoW anyways, especially if the new game is deemed incomeplete or unpolished; or won't want to waste their time (Why start all over there when I can already play WoW?)
In earlier years, I never felt as though one MMO was similar to another. Not once did I find AO similar to DAOC, or SWG similar to either of those. They all felt fresh and very different than any previous MMO I had played, and there was never any feeling that the game was designed specifically to appeal to a sudden market boom focused around another competing game.
After all these years, It would be nice to have a new game that offers a deeper, more rewarding, and challenging experience. A mmorpg without training wheels, one where not every player is a winner and requires one to do more than press a button to effortlessly get gear.
Asked by WoW fan your funny guy:P
If your only see WoW and after 7years only WoW im not sure you should even ask this question, its such limited view of what MMO gaming market has to offer dont you agree hehe.
Plus the fact that your example of why you did not feel back then what your feeling now after 7 or 8 years is so funny it can't be serious this topic seems rather trollish to me.
Obvious to me your question but seems mistery to you:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
EVE, DarkFall etc is doing their own innovation. Despite the half-done-feature of CCP, there are plenty of innovation (it just lacks polish) from when it first launched.
Whether the changes are suited to your personal taste is another issue, but to say the genre hasn't moved forward for the past 7 years is wrong.
I'm sorry... did you just use WoW and innovative in the same sentence? Things may have been added to WoW, but they weren't new.
BGs aren't new.
Phasing isn't new to WoW
Difficulty settings aren't new
in game cinematics aren't new
Eve is of course an innovative game, but that is the exception, not the rule, same with Darkfall. These indie games innovative, and they can keep innovating all they want, but so long as mainstream MMOs ignore those innovations... no we haven't progressed, we've regressed.
Instead of acknowledging the obvious progress the genre has made over the last 7 years it looks like most people are just making up their own definitions of "progress".
Here are some examples of progress in the real world:
Was it progress when commercial aviation became popular? It greatly reduced long travel times. I suppose there were people that were convinced that road trips built character or some such nonsense.
Was it progress when computers started replacing people in certain jobs? When they created ATM machines I am sure there were people concinved that it was better to simply ask the human teller to withdraw funds.
Was broadcast television progress? Oh no it just made people lazy couch potatoes. We should be hiking down to the theater if we want to see the motion picture.
Microwaves?
Notice how nearly every bit of progress just makes life more convenient, cheaper, easier, and more accessible?
Back to MMOG's...
Is a dungeon finder progress? I am sure there will always be people that liked spamming the LFG channel for hours.
Are quest map markers progress? Those Thottbot searches were fun I bet.
Is quest driven progression progress? You must have enjoyed finding the best places to mindlessly grind MOB's with no real direction or purpose.
Was Cryptic's single server architecture progress? You were probably too blinded by hate to even notice.
Was Turbine's F2P pay system progress? You'll probably tell me that payment systems are not a MMORPG feature (at least until I ask you for money).
Don't graphical improvements count? Even WoW looks much better now than it did at release.
Freely distributed client downloads? I loved digging my old disks out of the bottom of a box in the closet.
I remember going from a BBS system to Neverwinter Nights in about 1994. I can also remember going from NWN to Ultima Online in '97. I remember trying Dark Age of Camelot with its RvR in about 2001. I remember trying World of Warcraft in about 2004.
In those 10 years i went from a BBS system to WoW, granted the genre' was being born, i get that.
In 2010, the next big thing is Rift.
In my opinion, it has progressed very little.
I understand there will be a plateau in terms of development as the years progress, but honestly, i never thought it would be this severe.
A lot of MMOs were left out, as I went for what i liked, and some of the popular titles aren't there. I never played EQ because it didnt interest me as an example.
edit: and before i get slammed, I don't expect the kind of progress the genre' recieved in its first 10 years. The point was to show some progress from '97 to '04, and how much (or lack thereof) has be seen since.. not saying there was no progress, just very little..
Comments
And, if Rift and SWTOR are hits, it'll mean more years of stagnation. There's been innovation in the market (Darkfall) but it hasn't been done by any big companies, so no..the MMO genre is indeed moving backwards, has been for a good 6 years now. Yes, people do compare things, but honestly... with MMos back then you couldn't say (ok that's EverQuest with battlegrounds) the way you can with modern MMOs (Oh, that's just WoW with rift). Games felt massively different from one another. Each had its own learning curve. The lack of any learning curves or unique features in modern MMOs is a testament to how far we've fallen.
Even now, modern MMOs have about 1/4 the features of old MMOs. Backwards, very backwards. Where's my naval combat? My sieges? My housing? My econ/crafting system? My balance between raiding and PvP end game? Where's my good game design that had no need of instances?
Right. They've added random mob spawns and more "bloom" over the years...
Stating opinion as fact makes this all pointless. I don't find Darkfall to be innovating. Lore, rehashed, combat, rehashed, leveling mish-mosh of rehash. What do they bring to the table that other games do not? Nothing much, but you like it, which is all that should matter to you. Focusing on what others like and shaking your fist at the sky in ager seems petty.
Envy is the most stupid of vices, for there is no single advantage to be gained from it.
Honore de Balzac
Games that are seven years old are available, feel free. Seems small minded to overlook all the advances in MMOs to seem superior on a forum.
Why is there no room for debate if its subjective? But my point is you say that the games have changed over the years as an objective and correct fact as if that fact ended the debate, but it wasn't about change which would have been an objective fact, it was about the subjective perception of if mmo's progressed. And each person can say why they think the genre has progressed or not, and why. And people can discuss those opinions if they choose.
I think what has changed is that the business of MMO's has regressed. Too many company trying to capture WoW's success and not enough of them trying to find their own niche in the market. Some companies have done this. Love or hate STO they never set out to make a game that rivaled WoW, but they still failed in other ways.
Well if you look at all MMOs as whole there is plenty of progression. Examples: Darkfall, MortalOnline, even Warhammer have progressed the genre. I think the problem is gamers really don't like change. The games with the most innovation and REALLY progress the genre are never the favorites.
Well I think in the case of Darkfall and MO people who enjoy those game styles consider these progressions, but they don't offer a lot for the hordes of PvE centeric players. These are good examples of the niche games that I talked about though, great examples of companies who realize that you don't have to have 12 mil subs to make a profit.
I see potential for MMOs that are just simply never made. I mean.... The Mechwarrior franchise had something going. Partially a shooter with giant customizable robots that required tactics. Now add that with some EVE type mechanics and add some MMO elements and you could have a character with with classes similar to a Star Wars MMO and when it really hit the fan you could go to war and then the MMO would shift to the tactical/shooter elements. Have the various Houses compete and capture planets which gives your faction an advantage in customizing Mechs. I don't think I'll ever see a game like that but I'm sure it would sell and keep interest if done right. However, I'd want the Mechs to perform like they did before Microsoft bought the title and ruined it. Dropship raids of mechs on a planet would be Epic.
I think there are also a couple sleeper MMOs out there that are being developed such as the World of Darkness. Guild Wars 2 is experimenting and I like how they wrap the story around the actions of the character which I think all MMOs should do to some degree. MMOs really need to get rid of the leash and the habit of leading players around. I'd like to see some sandbox elements brought back. Now.... If only we could have a Fallout MMO.
The old MMOs no longer exist. Stop trying to pretend they do. If they did, we'd be playing them.
Darkfall and MO are indie games. That is where the ONLY innovation has come from. It has not progressed to the mainstream, therefore the innovations don't really matter, because core AAA MMOs ignore them.
AAA MMORPGs have been moving steadily backwards.
Back in theMMO Golden Age, the innovative games DID become favorites. Eve, SWG, EQ, DAoC, were all adored, and all were insanely innovative and well loved.
It isn't that hard to be innovative when there's less than 10 MMORPG's around.
Try to do the same trick when there's hundreds around, when the genre has become established and isn't in its pioneering stage anymore.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If you want to see progression in AAA titles you have already. Sandbox were a thing of the past and now games are more linear/theme park. Thats what makes money. Wether you like it or not THAT is progress. Forward is not always the way you might like. All the games you mentioned are old games that in their time brought progression. when I think progression I think, UI, controls, gameplay, programming, graphics, and overall presentation. So imo MMO's have progressed.
Exactly, there used to be only a few MMO's around. So when something new came out it was innnovative and new. Its really hard to do that when the market is so saturated. Progression is there its just not as noticeable as it once was.
Well said MMO.Maverick
This logic doesn't work at all, sorry.
First off, there were a LOT of MMORPGs out at the time, and new ideas were around every corner. Innovation was everywhere.
You're saying that's harder now because there are so many MMOs? How? Why is it harder to come up with new ideas now? There are thousands of RPGs, and more releasing every year, yet still they manage to come out with RPGs that have no innovative unique ideas.
New ideas aren't a well that has suddenly run dry because there are a lot more games now. But, if we were to imagine that that is a creativity well... it's still sitting there untapped. Because despite the fact that there are a lot more MMOs now, they keep using the same exact idea (WoW) so that creativity is still untapped.
So sorry, think of a new excuse as to why the last 7 years have seen a SINGLE innovation from AAA MMOs, public quests.
Progress implies that things are getting bigger and better and getting more things added to it.
I believe the word you're looking for is regression. MMOs have regressed. There I fixed it for you.
But going by you definition of progress.. graphics haven't gotten a ton better. The same UI is used in every game. The same gameplay is used in every game. Programming is getting worse, we can do less in modern MMOs than we could in older MMOs. So.. yeahh...
I felt Vanguard was a huge step.
Finally someone not trying to be "original", but trying to make the original ideas right, make them really work.
It had a gorgeous complex combat system with many new ideas in it, classes that "felt right", a large completely seamless noninstanced game world with extreme amounts of quests and noninstanced housing, all kinds of secondary content (crafting, harvest, diplomacy, fishing etc) as well.
And all the standards (many races, many classes, full guild support, guild halls, raiding, ...).
Unfortunately, it died from too early release and underfunding and their aftereffects, like low player population and small developer team.
Other than that, SWTOR is trying to have massive high quality content and thus making away with the boring grind found in many games. I dont know how well it will succeed, really. Main issue is: no release in asia, no console support. So how exactly can this be the extreme success necessary to fund a large developer team for producing high amounts of even more content necessary to get away from grind-y-ness ?
Amen.
*looks at the latest release, Rift*
no, MMOs have not progressed, not even a damn inch. at all.
If you compare WoW vanilla to WoW cata, the game mechanics has greatly increased with new innovative stuff being added.
Phasing, rated BG, different player/boss mechanics, difficulty mechanics (hard modes), in-game cinematics.
And that's just 'WoW'.
EVE, DarkFall etc is doing their own innovation. Despite the half-done-feature of CCP, there are plenty of innovation (it just lacks polish) from when it first launched.
Whether the changes are suited to your personal taste is another issue, but to say the genre hasn't moved forward for the past 7 years is wrong.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Asked by WoW fan your funny guy:P
If your only see WoW and after 7years only WoW im not sure you should even ask this question, its such limited view of what MMO gaming market has to offer dont you agree hehe.
Plus the fact that your example of why you did not feel back then what your feeling now after 7 or 8 years is so funny it can't be serious this topic seems rather trollish to me.
Obvious to me your question but seems mistery to you:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I'm sorry... did you just use WoW and innovative in the same sentence? Things may have been added to WoW, but they weren't new.
BGs aren't new.
Phasing isn't new to WoW
Difficulty settings aren't new
in game cinematics aren't new
Eve is of course an innovative game, but that is the exception, not the rule, same with Darkfall. These indie games innovative, and they can keep innovating all they want, but so long as mainstream MMOs ignore those innovations... no we haven't progressed, we've regressed.
Instead of acknowledging the obvious progress the genre has made over the last 7 years it looks like most people are just making up their own definitions of "progress".
Here are some examples of progress in the real world:
Was it progress when commercial aviation became popular? It greatly reduced long travel times. I suppose there were people that were convinced that road trips built character or some such nonsense.
Was it progress when computers started replacing people in certain jobs? When they created ATM machines I am sure there were people concinved that it was better to simply ask the human teller to withdraw funds.
Was broadcast television progress? Oh no it just made people lazy couch potatoes. We should be hiking down to the theater if we want to see the motion picture.
Microwaves?
Notice how nearly every bit of progress just makes life more convenient, cheaper, easier, and more accessible?
Back to MMOG's...
Is a dungeon finder progress? I am sure there will always be people that liked spamming the LFG channel for hours.
Are quest map markers progress? Those Thottbot searches were fun I bet.
Is quest driven progression progress? You must have enjoyed finding the best places to mindlessly grind MOB's with no real direction or purpose.
Was Cryptic's single server architecture progress? You were probably too blinded by hate to even notice.
Was Turbine's F2P pay system progress? You'll probably tell me that payment systems are not a MMORPG feature (at least until I ask you for money).
Don't graphical improvements count? Even WoW looks much better now than it did at release.
Freely distributed client downloads? I loved digging my old disks out of the bottom of a box in the closet.
How much have they really changed since EQ was the mmo standard?
WoW didn't really bring anything new to the table really.
I remember going from a BBS system to Neverwinter Nights in about 1994. I can also remember going from NWN to Ultima Online in '97. I remember trying Dark Age of Camelot with its RvR in about 2001. I remember trying World of Warcraft in about 2004.
In those 10 years i went from a BBS system to WoW, granted the genre' was being born, i get that.
In 2010, the next big thing is Rift.
In my opinion, it has progressed very little.
I understand there will be a plateau in terms of development as the years progress, but honestly, i never thought it would be this severe.
A lot of MMOs were left out, as I went for what i liked, and some of the popular titles aren't there. I never played EQ because it didnt interest me as an example.
edit: and before i get slammed, I don't expect the kind of progress the genre' recieved in its first 10 years. The point was to show some progress from '97 to '04, and how much (or lack thereof) has be seen since.. not saying there was no progress, just very little..