So? I'm suppose to just put up with someone being bad? I'm suppose to just say hey its okay you wiped us twice because you can't pull half the DPS the rest of the group pulls but hey its okay =] I don't think so. Its okay if you follow ur own path but I DO not put up with people being stupid..... You can have a bad build and it can hurt your dps and it will get you kicked. I may be being a dick, but your being a bigger dick by wasting my time and 3 other peoples time.
If one person is doing less damage than everyone else in the group, and you're wiping twice... I'd say your group's problems extend beyond someone doing less DPS. Something is wrong somewhere. Someone's pulling too much aggro, someone's not healing properly, someone's not tanking properly. I have never seen a party wipe because one person out of the group was doing less DPS than the others. I've been in plenty of groups where we were missing an additional DPS entirely... and we still pulled through. We've simply adjusted our tactics to account for the DPS we were capable of doing. If we wiped, the failure was not on the part of lacking DPS.
That said... I would bet real world money that at times in your gaming history, you've been in the position of being lower DPS in the group and were, yourself, being carried by others. Everyone has been that person at some point, because everyone has to start from the same place. If you try to say you've never been in that position, you are a liar, full stop. Again, everyone starts in the same place.
So, in the cases when you were carried while leveling up, were you deliberately "trying to waste everyone's time"? Or , were you perhaps doing your best, trying to get through the content, to get better gear, so you could improve and, thus grow to become the fine, understanding and completely tolerant individual you are showing yourself to be here?
The suggestion I make to people like yourself is to take a step back and remember where you started, and then realize you are going to meet other players who are going through the same progression you had to. You didn't step into Rift, or any other MMO, from day 1 being top rung. No one has. Try to remember that sometimes. An open mind is a wonderful thing.
I did start in a postion where I worse DPS and was carried but I NEVER through a baby fit when someone told me how to properly gear or spec. That is what this conversation is about. If you take advice and make yourself better then fine. If you througha bitch fit and find no reason for you to change your naive and need to quit playing or play solo as not effect me and waste my time.
So? I'm suppose to just put up with someone being bad? I'm suppose to just say hey its okay you wiped us twice because you can't pull half the DPS the rest of the group pulls but hey its okay =] I don't think so. Its okay if you follow ur own path but I DO not put up with people being stupid..... You can have a bad build and it can hurt your dps and it will get you kicked. I may be being a dick, but your being a bigger dick by wasting my time and 3 other peoples time.
If one person is doing less damage than everyone else in the group, and you're wiping twice... I'd say your group's problems extend beyond someone doing less DPS. Something is wrong somewhere. Someone's pulling too much aggro, someone's not healing properly, someone's not tanking properly. I have never seen a party wipe because one person out of the group was doing less DPS than the others. I've been in plenty of groups where we were missing an additional DPS entirely... and we still pulled through. We've simply adjusted our tactics to account for the DPS we were capable of doing. If we wiped, the failure was not on the part of lacking DPS.
That said... I would bet real world money that at times in your gaming history, you've been in the position of being lower DPS in the group and were, yourself, being carried by others. Everyone has been that person at some point, because everyone has to start from the same place. If you try to say you've never been in that position, you are a liar, full stop. Again, everyone starts in the same place.
So, in the cases when you were carried while leveling up, were you deliberately "trying to waste everyone's time"? Or , were you perhaps doing your best, trying to get through the content, to get better gear, so you could improve and, thus grow to become the fine, understanding and completely tolerant individual you are showing yourself to be here?
The suggestion I make to people like yourself is to take a step back and remember where you started, and then realize you are going to meet other players who are going through the same progression you had to. You didn't step into Rift, or any other MMO, from day 1 being top rung. No one has. Try to remember that sometimes. An open mind is a wonderful thing.
I did start in a postion where I worse DPS and was carried but I NEVER through a baby fit when someone told me how to properly gear or spec. That is what this conversation is about. If you take advice and make yourself better then fine. If you througha bitch fit and find no reason for you to change your naive and need to quit playing or play solo as not effect me and waste my time.
Perhaps it's in another post after the one I quoted, but nowhere in the one I replied to, nor the one before it, do you say anything about people not taking advice and throwing baby fits. You're speaking specifically about people having a bad build, it hurting their DPS, and getting kicked for "wasting your group's time".
I'm responding to what you actually said in the quoted post.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
So? I'm suppose to just put up with someone being bad? I'm suppose to just say hey its okay you wiped us twice because you can't pull half the DPS the rest of the group pulls but hey its okay =] I don't think so. Its okay if you follow ur own path but I DO not put up with people being stupid..... You can have a bad build and it can hurt your dps and it will get you kicked. I may be being a dick, but your being a bigger dick by wasting my time and 3 other peoples time.
If one person is doing less damage than everyone else in the group, and you're wiping twice... I'd say your group's problems extend beyond someone doing less DPS. Something is wrong somewhere. Someone's pulling too much aggro, someone's not healing properly, someone's not tanking properly. I have never seen a party wipe because one person out of the group was doing less DPS than the others. I've been in plenty of groups where we were missing an additional DPS entirely... and we still pulled through. We've simply adjusted our tactics to account for the DPS we were capable of doing. If we wiped, the failure was not on the part of lacking DPS.
That said... I would bet real world money that at times in your gaming history, you've been in the position of being lower DPS in the group and were, yourself, being carried by others. Everyone has been that person at some point, because everyone has to start from the same place. If you try to say you've never been in that position, you are a liar, full stop. Again, everyone starts in the same place.
So, in the cases when you were carried while leveling up, were you deliberately "trying to waste everyone's time"? Or , were you perhaps doing your best, trying to get through the content, to get better gear, so you could improve and, thus grow to become the fine, understanding and completely tolerant individual you are showing yourself to be here?
The suggestion I make to people like yourself is to take a step back and remember where you started, and then realize you are going to meet other players who are going through the same progression you had to. You didn't step into Rift, or any other MMO, from day 1 being top rung. No one has. Try to remember that sometimes. An open mind is a wonderful thing.
I did start in a postion where I worse DPS and was carried but I NEVER through a baby fit when someone told me how to properly gear or spec. That is what this conversation is about. If you take advice and make yourself better then fine. If you througha bitch fit and find no reason for you to change your naive and need to quit playing or play solo as not effect me and waste my time.
Perhaps it's in another post after the one I quoted, but nowhere in the one I replied to, nor the one before it, do you say anything about people not taking advice and throwing baby fits. You're speaking specifically about people having a bad build, it hurting their DPS, and getting kicked for "wasting your group's time".
I'm responding to what you actually said in the quoted post.
Yes, this is a forum. My post was a direct response to the "WoW mindset" I was talking about a Opposite oppion about this. My opinion was a response too that the people that get harresed for bad specs/gear and thinking how its not deserved, my post was to state my opinion it is deservered if you don't take advice given too you.
People take games WAY TOO seriously. Who cares if the person doesn't have the spec you want or is pulling louzy one?
Scared of challenges? Bet a gazillion nuts (whtf?) that the same who want you to spec "this" or "that" to get better results are the same one that say "this is too easy". Wonder why?
People forget that a game is to have FUN. What is having fun? Depends on each person. Someone may like watching movies like Die Hard while others would enjoy a episode of Doc House. The thing is, if you say that the raids/content is too easy but still demand maximum devotion to the spec OTHER people posted on some blog or website... don't you think your -doing it- WRONG?
First off, why do you READ websites with people posting their own specs and experience? It's their gameplay so... why copy the other people... strategy? Why not build your own for your own playstyle? Or maybe you can't understand what each soul tree upgrades actually do and must copy a tree from another person. What your doing is the same those people that buyed a strategy guide to pass their game and, in the end, you say "well, that was easy"... excuse my english but -NO SH*T SHERLOCK- why didn't you do it yourself? AFRAID to die? Gezzz, this ain't real life... here you can die and ressurect without a single "ouch" from you a million times in one minute.
Second, why DEMAND others to your mindset? Some people don't like your strategy guides. It is enough you ruin your own game experience but leave others out of it. Some people like things challenging and do things by themselves (what should really be always the objective of the game) for their playstyle or tastes.
Third, EVERYONE IS WORTHY OF THEIR PRICE (unless they are afk, running in circles without doing a blow/heal/taunt or just following you aka drag queen). So what... he isn't the "top" (it's funny because you copied from a strategy book and consider yourself a pro, more like cheater) but he is there... and did something you never had the guts, to do things by yourself and not to be afraid by dead... in a game.
Lastly, and this is for the OP, why didn't you just left the group when you had a glimpse of their... "eliteness"? (again, it's funny how they call themselves pro or elites when they just followed someone that ACTUALLY did their work instead of them and require completely diferent playstyle than themselves) If it was me, I would be out for HOURS the moment they said "you need to spec this". I would be like "screw you guys, I play my own way. You can't tell me how to play. Not you or one of those strategy guides".
Anyway... marching on... this is my point of view in this WHOLE topic so, do what you want, I'm going to eat pizza.
I see a universe where unicorns fly... and my mother-in-law is in a grave at last. |BEST UNIVERSE EVA AWARD|
The ElitetistJerkes website pretty much dictates how everyone will spec in WoW.
When I saw all the talent choices available in Rift, I knew right off that it wouldn't matter. There would be only one spec for each class. And then there would be the clueless who would always be sub par because their spec was gimped.
Really, it's websites like ElitestJerks and other sites like WoWhead, thottbot that ruined much of what mmos should be.
The ElitetistJerkes website pretty much dictates how everyone will spec in WoW.
When I saw all the talent choices available in Rift, I knew right off that it wouldn't matter. There would be only one spec for each class. And then there would be the clueless who would always be sub par because their spec was gimped.
Really, it's websites like ElitestJerks and other sites like WoWhead, thottbot that ruined much of what mmos should be.
Didn't want to say names of specific websites, specially from a diferent MMO but you already did the job so, thank you (really thank you, not beying sarcastic).
I see a universe where unicorns fly... and my mother-in-law is in a grave at last. |BEST UNIVERSE EVA AWARD|
Originally posted by just1opinion Originally posted by Artymus77 LMFAO i think its hilarious when people is telling other people how to spec builds on "their" accounts, you know what ITS A GAME, go jump off a bridge. I pay for my account and dont tell me what to do with my character LOL.
I love your commitment to be yourself and play your OWN game. Fuck what other people think. THEY aren't paying your monthly gaming bill, now are they? Bravo to you.
The problem comes in when Mr It's A Game's character puts themself in a position where MY character has to rely on them to keep me alive and because they made poor and uneducated choices about THEIR character the whole group suffers and dies and loses progress.
If you're gonna be a Feth What Other People Think kinda character, stay the hell out of groups where what you do matters to others than.
The ElitetistJerkes website pretty much dictates how everyone will spec in WoW.
When I saw all the talent choices available in Rift, I knew right off that it wouldn't matter. There would be only one spec for each class. And then there would be the clueless who would always be sub par because their spec was gimped.
Really, it's websites like ElitestJerks and other sites like WoWhead, thottbot that ruined much of what mmos should be.
Elitist Jerks and MT'adin are non-existent to casual and freeform players, they're the goldmine for people who love achieving the very best that they can, and for some people.. people that both sides generally ignore, they're how they get their kicks.
If special snowflake players are A, elitist asses are B, and people that want the best out of their game.. the best numbers, the best performance are C...
A+C rarely interact in raids.. they don't want to be in the same type of guilds.. except when C has a free raid lock and wants to help a friend in an A-style guild. They interact in heroics but C generally enjoys the extra load that A's special freeform snowflake fun might plice on C. If they're in the mood, they might even joke and banter with A.
B+C rarely interact because C can't stand the idiots that cause drama. C also hates to see meters spammed after trash. "Yeah bro! We wiped because your aoe broke cc, but gj!" C hates to .. see .. meters in heroics because it's distracting and pointless. C certainly has meters running and will start analyzing them when the group can't complete something but Damage Taken - Interrupts - and detailed examination of Damage done to who is what C will be looking at. The guy doing 20k or the guy doing 5k can each be the one causing a wipe by either attacking, or not attacking a certain enemy.
A+B is where the problems come in. B probably isn't really an elite-skilled player, but he's gonna tout everything he's got. Learn to ignore B and you'll have plenty of fun with A and C.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Elitist Jerks and MT'adin are non-existent to casual and freeform players, they're the goldmine for people who love achieving the very best that they can, and for some people.. people that both sides generally ignore, they're how they get their kicks.
If special snowflake players are A, elitist asses are B, and people that want the best out of their game.. the best numbers, the best performance are C...
A+C rarely interact in raids.. they don't want to be in the same type of guilds.. except when C has a free raid lock and wants to help a friend in an A-style guild. They interact in heroics but C generally enjoys the extra load that A's special freeform snowflake fun might plice on C. If they're in the mood, they might even joke and banter with A.
B+C rarely interact because C can't stand the idiots that cause drama. C also hates to see meters spammed after trash. "Yeah bro! We wiped because your aoe broke cc, but gj!" C hates to .. see .. meters in heroics because it's distracting and pointless. C certainly has meters running and will start analyzing them when the group can't complete something but Damage Taken - Interrupts - and detailed examination of Damage done to who is what C will be looking at. The guy doing 20k or the guy doing 5k can each be the one causing a wipe by either attacking, or not attacking a certain enemy.
A+B is where the problems come in. B probably isn't really an elite-skilled player, but he's gonna tout everything he's got. Learn to ignore B and you'll have plenty of fun with A and C.
If you want to ruin the experience and just jump to the last page of the book... sure, go visit those websites.
If you want to simply read the book, without others pointing out to read the last page, I am sure you will have a better experience... unless you don't like the book and want to end it quickly? (the book is the MMO)
Player A is the one that likes to read the book at his own speed, without C trying to say: "Why read a book if you can just jump to the last page, know the end and discuss what did you though about it?" Player A simply says: "What is there to discuss if you didn't even read HOW or WHY things end up like that in the end?"
Player B is the one that claims to have read the book but frankly, he didn't even passed the first page. He is the one that will discuss the book without even reading it and claim that what the C and A think is wrong, no mather how much you tell them they are wrong.
Player C is the one that, again, reads the last page and laugh at those that actually are trying to read the whole book. Don't think player C is A that read the whole book and now it's looking to lead the A readers. Those A's are actually D's...
Player D is the one that was A but finally ended. He will either post on websites to give their opinion about the books to make C's go wild and NEVER read the book fully OR he will simply continue to play the game silently and laugh at B's and C's and won't spoil the book to A's.
I see a universe where unicorns fly... and my mother-in-law is in a grave at last. |BEST UNIVERSE EVA AWARD|
Hahah, the OP approaches the problem from the wrong angle. You can't change the people, but you can surly design a game in the way that issues observed in games like WoW or Rift won't happen. Just take a look at Guild Wars 2 design principles. It is yet to be seen what kind of new problems it will produce, but it is a great improvment over EQ/WoW lineage.
Play nothing and wait patiently until a decent mmo comes up (rumors claim it to be Blizzard's TITAN, and speculate it will be a sandbox).
Until that decent mmo releases, stop wasting your money on crap games.
If you keep buying their shitty games, they'll make more for you thinking you actually like them.
They don't think you like them. They make it anyway because it is easier and there is no diferent game at this very moment that can challenge the themeparks that is RELEASED.
I see a universe where unicorns fly... and my mother-in-law is in a grave at last. |BEST UNIVERSE EVA AWARD|
Was in one of the expert dungeons today and watched this guild telling a bard how to spec. "You need to spec 51 bard"
The guy wasn't doing that bad really, he was for the most part helping the healer to keep everyone alive. We did have a wipe or 2. The thing that pisses me off about it is there was only one rogue, and a guy in the other guild rolled need on the bow.
Then when the rogue asked them why they needed it. They told the rogue he was being carried and didn't deserve the bow to begin with.
Next thing you know it is being sold in trade chat. As if this guy didn't put in as much work as everyone else, so ninja his bow and sell it and split the plat with the guildies that went on the run.
Game is the spitting image of wow, I can't even wait until something else comes out. Half of the classes are not even viable if you don't spec the way everyone else is speccing. It's just bullcrap, the devs should have known this would happen rather than waste their time to make all these different combos that nobody will play because they wont be able to participate in a run without having to hear the kids flaming them the whole time.
Wait. Aren't you a Rogue? Did this happen to you or another Rogue? Regardless, those people are awful. They most likely act this way no matter what game they are in and are best to be ignored. I would absolutely spread the word about your story in general chat and about the guild. Let the bad press smack them in the face.
Your story is terrible and feel bad to whomever it was that happened to. Hopefully this guild will be shunned by others and their bad reputation will go on to haunt them.
People take games WAY TOO seriously. Who cares if the person doesn't have the spec you want or is pulling louzy one?
Scared of challenges? Bet a gazillion nuts (whtf?) that the same who want you to spec "this" or "that" to get better results are the same one that say "this is too easy". Wonder why?
People forget that a game is to have FUN. What is having fun? Depends on each person. Someone may like watching movies like Die Hard while others would enjoy a episode of Doc House. The thing is, if you say that the raids/content is too easy but still demand maximum devotion to the spec OTHER people posted on some blog or website... don't you think your -doing it- WRONG?
First off, why do you READ websites with people posting their own specs and experience? It's their gameplay so... why copy the other people... strategy? Why not build your own for your own playstyle? Or maybe you can't understand what each soul tree upgrades actually do and must copy a tree from another person. What your doing is the same those people that buyed a strategy guide to pass their game and, in the end, you say "well, that was easy"... excuse my english but -NO SH*T SHERLOCK- why didn't you do it yourself? AFRAID to die? Gezzz, this ain't real life... here you can die and ressurect without a single "ouch" from you a million times in one minute.
Second, why DEMAND others to your mindset? Some people don't like your strategy guides. It is enough you ruin your own game experience but leave others out of it. Some people like things challenging and do things by themselves (what should really be always the objective of the game) for their playstyle or tastes.
Third, EVERYONE IS WORTHY OF THEIR PRICE (unless they are afk, running in circles without doing a blow/heal/taunt or just following you aka drag queen). So what... he isn't the "top" (it's funny because you copied from a strategy book and consider yourself a pro, more like cheater) but he is there... and did something you never had the guts, to do things by yourself and not to be afraid by dead... in a game.
Lastly, and this is for the OP, why didn't you just left the group when you had a glimpse of their... "eliteness"? (again, it's funny how they call themselves pro or elites when they just followed someone that ACTUALLY did their work instead of them and require completely diferent playstyle than themselves) If it was me, I would be out for HOURS the moment they said "you need to spec this". I would be like "screw you guys, I play my own way. You can't tell me how to play. Not you or one of those strategy guides".
Anyway... marching on... this is my point of view in this WHOLE topic so, do what you want, I'm going to eat pizza.
I haven't seen this kind of bs on the server I play on, thank god for that. But ppl are ppl so some act retarted, I would not blame it on wow or any other game, it just is how some ppl are.
Currently playing: N/A Retired from: GW, WAR, Aion, LOTRO, Rift, SW:TOR, Vinductus
People take games WAY TOO seriously. Who cares if the person doesn't have the spec you want or is pulling louzy one?
Scared of challenges? Bet a gazillion nuts (whtf?) that the same who want you to spec "this" or "that" to get better results are the same one that say "this is too easy". Wonder why?
People forget that a game is to have FUN. What is having fun? Depends on each person. Someone may like watching movies like Die Hard while others would enjoy a episode of Doc House. The thing is, if you say that the raids/content is too easy but still demand maximum devotion to the spec OTHER people posted on some blog or website... don't you think your -doing it- WRONG?
First off, why do you READ websites with people posting their own specs and experience? It's their gameplay so... why copy the other people... strategy? Why not build your own for your own playstyle? Or maybe you can't understand what each soul tree upgrades actually do and must copy a tree from another person. What your doing is the same those people that buyed a strategy guide to pass their game and, in the end, you say "well, that was easy"... excuse my english but -NO SH*T SHERLOCK- why didn't you do it yourself? AFRAID to die? Gezzz, this ain't real life... here you can die and ressurect without a single "ouch" from you a million times in one minute.
Second, why DEMAND others to your mindset? Some people don't like your strategy guides. It is enough you ruin your own game experience but leave others out of it. Some people like things challenging and do things by themselves (what should really be always the objective of the game) for their playstyle or tastes.
Third, EVERYONE IS WORTHY OF THEIR PRICE (unless they are afk, running in circles without doing a blow/heal/taunt or just following you aka drag queen). So what... he isn't the "top" (it's funny because you copied from a strategy book and consider yourself a pro, more like cheater) but he is there... and did something you never had the guts, to do things by yourself and not to be afraid by dead... in a game.
Lastly, and this is for the OP, why didn't you just left the group when you had a glimpse of their... "eliteness"? (again, it's funny how they call themselves pro or elites when they just followed someone that ACTUALLY did their work instead of them and require completely diferent playstyle than themselves) If it was me, I would be out for HOURS the moment they said "you need to spec this". I would be like "screw you guys, I play my own way. You can't tell me how to play. Not you or one of those strategy guides".
Anyway... marching on... this is my point of view in this WHOLE topic so, do what you want, I'm going to eat pizza.
yessir! agree 100%
I agree with that as well.
I've said for a long time that the people who most tell people to "learn to play" likely don't know the game as well as they think, themselves.
Want to know the best question to ask someone when they're telling you "you're supposed to spec like...." or "gear up like..." etc... Ask them "Why?"
"Why do I need to spec ilke that?" "Why should I use that specific gear?"
On rare occasion, you'll find someone who actually knows, understands the game system and can tell you exactly why.
More often, though, they'll say something along the of "Everyone knows that. It's what all the best guides say..." (or something similar)
Again... ask "Why? Why do the guides recommend that specific spec? What are the benefits of it compared to other comparable builds? How do the stats break down? Where are the benefits from it?"
You'll be amazed (or maybe not) at how often the people don't know. They have no idea. All they know is a guide tells them they're supposed to "play this way", and so they do... unquestioningly, to the letter. Yet, they're going around telling people to "learn to play". They should be saying "read and follow this guide before you join my group."
Irony at its most blatant.
If your success in a raid/xp party/etc. requires that you and everyone in your group follow a specific build, party setup, gear setup, etc.. based on a guide someone else created... You are not as good a player as you think.
If you truly understand the game and know the system, you can find ways to make *many* different group setups work... because you understand the strength and weakness of each.
I've seen this time and again in FFXI. People refuse to even try some events without the "perfect" setup based on what some guide says you need to succeed at it. They won't even attempt it unless everything is perfectly set up. It's always fun to see their astonishment when others, not following the guides *at all*, and in fact using a setup that "everyone knows won't work" - and pull it off without a hitch. Why? Because those people using the "unorthodox" setup are the ones who truly understand the game. They've done their research, they've had their hands-on experience, they understand the gameplay mechanics. They know what combinations of skills, classes, setups and such work, and how to apply each in a given setting.
Being good at following instructions someone else wrote doesn't make you a 'skilled player'. It makes you good at following instructions someone else wrote.
That's why I always have to smirk and shake my head when I see some one going off in a forum, or in a game, declaring "If you aren't spec'd properly the way you'r supposed to be, you will *not* be in my party!". I interpret that as "I don't know how to succeed unless everyone in my group is setup to the same cookie-cutter build I rely on to play".
It really is kinda funny. The only sad part is, people are being refused parties because of those clowns.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
In any case, this 'mindsetting' is common in all games that are easy to play. The alternative, however, are games that people cannot handle. Pick your poison.
LMFAO i think its hilarious when people is telling other people how to spec builds on "their" accounts, you know what ITS A GAME, go jump off a bridge. I pay for my account and dont tell me what to do with my character LOL.
I love your commitment to be yourself and play your OWN game. Fuck what other people think. THEY aren't paying your monthly gaming bill, now are they? Bravo to you.
The problem comes in when Mr It's A Game's character puts themself in a position where MY character has to rely on them to keep me alive and because they made poor and uneducated choices about THEIR character the whole group suffers and dies and loses progress.
If you're gonna be a Feth What Other People Think kinda character, stay the hell out of groups where what you do matters to others than.
Thats what all the people complaining about being told how to play/spec dont get. Theyre all "Its my game/money, ill play it my way blah blah blah" and get all pissy with anyone who tells them how to be better & more useful in a group, but dont consider the fact that they are hindering someone elses gameplay, not the other way around.
You want to be a special little snowflake, but being a special little snowflake who is only doing half of what theys hould be capable of with their class slows EVERYONE down. When youre in a group, its no longer all about you & your feelings, you are not the center of the universe. You complain about it being your money, but what about all the trouble youre causing for other people who pay the exact same amount as you (actually more than you if you combine everyone in the group vs just you)?
People are generally telling others to spec a certain way for a reason, because its the most effective at doing a particular job. If you refuse to listen to other's advice and insist on sticking to your way instead of the best/most effective way, then YOU are forcing YOUR way of playing on everyone in the group, not the other way around. What sounds worse, forcing several people to cater to 1 person so they can feel special & unique by being forced to make up for their bad build/playstyle, or an entire group of people asking that 1 person to change for the sake of several people?
The behavior the OP brings up i've seen on many games, not just wow. hell in the DCU beta there were people who i teamed up with trying to say the "perfect spec" for things on that game. it's just the "i've played 15 mins longer so i know more" syndrome. it's not going to change no matter the game, it's just a thing of just for arguments sake his spec was DIFFERENT then *gasp, god forbid he's an indivisual!* there's possibly a couple hundred different ways to spec for all i know. i'm just saying them pissing on his spec instead of just giving a helpful hint or 2 is one thing, but then the deal with the gear is just rediculous. they just did it to have a bow, that in the grand scheme of the game....hundreds and thousands will have at one point or another, so really, they did it just to stroke e-peen. it's sad, but true, and it'll happen again and again.
Now I'm not at all saying Warcraft rifts compared, but I do often wonder if the specific design of the event was a jab at RIFT.
(And yes, they worked the same way. Rifts weren't directly attackable, you killed the mobs--though wow's were garbage mobs with recycled elemental graphics--to seal the rift.)
They have done that years ago as well. When AQ opened it worked a bit like Rift. Not entirely but still.
If it ain't dead you're not pressing 2 hard enough.
Now I'm not at all saying Warcraft rifts compared, but I do often wonder if the specific design of the event was a jab at RIFT.
(And yes, they worked the same way. Rifts weren't directly attackable, you killed the mobs--though wow's were garbage mobs with recycled elemental graphics--to seal the rift.)
They have done that years ago as well. When AQ opened it worked a bit like Rift. Not entirely but still.
Really? Didn't play then. Curious to know what they looked like--not that I'd expect them to look anywhere near as good as RIFT's--just curious to see if the cata event was a recycling of graphics.
Blizzard is definitely a company turning green. They've mastered Reuse and Recycle. C- in Reduce.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Thats what all the people complaining about being told how to play/spec dont get. Theyre all "Its my game/money, ill play it my way blah blah blah" and get all pissy with anyone who tells them how to be better & more useful in a group, but dont consider the fact that they are hindering someone elses gameplay, not the other way around.
You want to be a special little snowflake, but being a special little snowflake who is only doing half of what theys hould be capable of with their class slows EVERYONE down. When youre in a group, its no longer all about you & your feelings, you are not the center of the universe. You complain about it being your money, but what about all the trouble youre causing for other people who pay the exact same amount as you (actually more than you if you combine everyone in the group vs just you)?
People are generally telling others to spec a certain way for a reason, because its the most effective at doing a particular job. If you refuse to listen to other's advice and insist on sticking to your way instead of the best/most effective way, then YOU are forcing YOUR way of playing on everyone in the group, not the other way around. What sounds worse, forcing several people to cater to 1 person so they can feel special & unique by being forced to make up for their bad build/playstyle, or an entire group of people asking that 1 person to change for the sake of several people?
First: I didn't know you wanted to end the game fast? Sorry? I didn't know you wanted to enjoy it deeply and actually lose a couple of times to perfect your OWN strategy (not some "other guy that told you and you are telling others because the guy that told is in a big website with many strategies so it must be the best strategy in the whole world and no one can deny it or die"). Sorry, some people don't follow strategy guides because it doesn't make sence.
If you were playing a single player game, would you buy the game with a walkthrough? If so, why? What is the fun of just doing what is told by someone that did the same has all those "snowflakes"? Sorry, that ain't skill, but like a previous post said, it's only following "orders" from another guy without knowing why. They just know it works and that is it. I would give a example but my examples would envolve messing with things behind anyone's limit and could offend someone (even though my objective is NOT to bash the people on the example, but yes giving an example. Still won't tell it).
Snowflake is a bit of offensive... I think "human" is the word. Every human is unique so, why use snowflake has a word to describe unique? It's like calling a animal a cat when it is a lion just to describe the animal is a feline. If we are snowflakes, then sorry to say this but your a program/software... because you keep reading the script without thinking why are you doing it (someone actually though for you).
- "If our system (actually it ain't yours, you just read somewhere and claimed to be yours) works, why the hell we need to "find a new one"?"
Good question, sherlock, but your missing the point: Did you REALLY learned about WHY is the system like that? Did you tried to check if there are other ways? Sure that there are more paths to rome than the highway that someone builded and claimed to be faster than all the roads. Maybe these... humans (not slowflakes) are trying to find a new path that is faster. Hard? Hell yeah, there is no road yet and it is covered by trees and wild animals. Of course, if we cut the path down (please don't hate me nature) and build a new highway, I am sure you will follow it too and then claim to be YOUR strategy has well.
- "That is stupid... why would you do that and not just use the highway like everyone else?"
*coff* traffic *coff* we don't like to follow a larger road just because a gazillion follow it. It losses the fun of adventuring. I am sure you will spend more time with your friends in a forest, all the way to rome instead of grabbing a car and horn it because of the traffic, yelling: "MOVE AWAY, I'M IN A HURRY TO SEE UNCLE BOB'S CONCERT! SCREW THIS, THIS LINE (raid/group) IS NOT MOVING, GOING TO CHANGE LANE... OMG, IT'S SLOW TOO! *RAGE*"
- "Your example is stupid and doesn't make sence!"
Well, sorry but, there is actually no real example to this... your playing a game and bashing people for not playing the way you want.
Probably fashion is a much better example. "Pink is fashion, all the top models dress in pink so if you don't wear Pink, your not worthy". Why is Pink THE color? Screw pink, I prefer Black or White (or both =P).
Andrea (The guys that follow some guy's strategy): "Tiffany... why are you wearing White colors? Your making me and my friends look bad, we are all Pink and your with that... white thing! You know that our source says that the Vice-President doesn't like people that dress something without Pink! We won't get promoted like this... GET AWAY, your ruining our style!"
Tiffany (The humans, not snowflakes): "Whatever Andrea, I don't dress Pink because some top model told you to."
Andrea: "Wait... is that Laura?"
Laura (Elitist): "Ugh, your all dressed in Pink, BOOORING... and Tiffany, is that white? Sooo 80's..."
Tiffany: "But... your naked?"
Andrea: "Yeah, your naked... I don't care if you wear white or other color, just put something up, woman!"
Laura: "Who cares what you think... I look pretty and you know it. See you around, dork faces! I will find a group of girls that understand my modern ways!" <- probably a naked beach zone.
My opinion:
Why the hell are we even discussing this? Some people like to read the last page of the book (or never read it) and stick with the opinions of those that ACTUALLY read the book fully. Others like to read the book slowly and take a few breaks and think about the things that happened and why and others just don't read and bash those that do and claim to know what the book is talking about. JUST... FREAKIN... AVOID... EACH.... OTHERS!
Make a group of pink dresses only, make a club of people that want to try diferent clothes for a exchange and others can always go naked in a naked beach zone with other naked people. Why do they have to mix up and fight because one is naked, the other is always in pink and the other just doesn't stick with the rest of the group?
It's just a game, relax and enjoy the way you like it with the people you like it and don't force people to change their ways because you think "it's the best".
I see a universe where unicorns fly... and my mother-in-law is in a grave at last. |BEST UNIVERSE EVA AWARD|
Comments
That guy will have a coronary before he's 40.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I did start in a postion where I worse DPS and was carried but I NEVER through a baby fit when someone told me how to properly gear or spec. That is what this conversation is about. If you take advice and make yourself better then fine. If you througha bitch fit and find no reason for you to change your naive and need to quit playing or play solo as not effect me and waste my time.
Perhaps it's in another post after the one I quoted, but nowhere in the one I replied to, nor the one before it, do you say anything about people not taking advice and throwing baby fits. You're speaking specifically about people having a bad build, it hurting their DPS, and getting kicked for "wasting your group's time".
I'm responding to what you actually said in the quoted post.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Yes, this is a forum. My post was a direct response to the "WoW mindset" I was talking about a Opposite oppion about this. My opinion was a response too that the people that get harresed for bad specs/gear and thinking how its not deserved, my post was to state my opinion it is deservered if you don't take advice given too you.
People take games WAY TOO seriously. Who cares if the person doesn't have the spec you want or is pulling louzy one?
Scared of challenges? Bet a gazillion nuts (whtf?) that the same who want you to spec "this" or "that" to get better results are the same one that say "this is too easy". Wonder why?
People forget that a game is to have FUN. What is having fun? Depends on each person. Someone may like watching movies like Die Hard while others would enjoy a episode of Doc House. The thing is, if you say that the raids/content is too easy but still demand maximum devotion to the spec OTHER people posted on some blog or website... don't you think your -doing it- WRONG?
First off, why do you READ websites with people posting their own specs and experience? It's their gameplay so... why copy the other people... strategy? Why not build your own for your own playstyle? Or maybe you can't understand what each soul tree upgrades actually do and must copy a tree from another person. What your doing is the same those people that buyed a strategy guide to pass their game and, in the end, you say "well, that was easy"... excuse my english but -NO SH*T SHERLOCK- why didn't you do it yourself? AFRAID to die? Gezzz, this ain't real life... here you can die and ressurect without a single "ouch" from you a million times in one minute.
Second, why DEMAND others to your mindset? Some people don't like your strategy guides. It is enough you ruin your own game experience but leave others out of it. Some people like things challenging and do things by themselves (what should really be always the objective of the game) for their playstyle or tastes.
Third, EVERYONE IS WORTHY OF THEIR PRICE (unless they are afk, running in circles without doing a blow/heal/taunt or just following you aka drag queen). So what... he isn't the "top" (it's funny because you copied from a strategy book and consider yourself a pro, more like cheater) but he is there... and did something you never had the guts, to do things by yourself and not to be afraid by dead... in a game.
Lastly, and this is for the OP, why didn't you just left the group when you had a glimpse of their... "eliteness"? (again, it's funny how they call themselves pro or elites when they just followed someone that ACTUALLY did their work instead of them and require completely diferent playstyle than themselves) If it was me, I would be out for HOURS the moment they said "you need to spec this". I would be like "screw you guys, I play my own way. You can't tell me how to play. Not you or one of those strategy guides".
Anyway... marching on... this is my point of view in this WHOLE topic so, do what you want, I'm going to eat pizza.
I see a universe where unicorns fly... and my mother-in-law is in a grave at last.
|BEST UNIVERSE EVA AWARD|
The ElitetistJerkes website pretty much dictates how everyone will spec in WoW.
When I saw all the talent choices available in Rift, I knew right off that it wouldn't matter. There would be only one spec for each class. And then there would be the clueless who would always be sub par because their spec was gimped.
Really, it's websites like ElitestJerks and other sites like WoWhead, thottbot that ruined much of what mmos should be.
Didn't want to say names of specific websites, specially from a diferent MMO but you already did the job so, thank you (really thank you, not beying sarcastic).
I see a universe where unicorns fly... and my mother-in-law is in a grave at last.
|BEST UNIVERSE EVA AWARD|
I love your commitment to be yourself and play your OWN game. Fuck what other people think. THEY aren't paying your monthly gaming bill, now are they? Bravo to you.
The problem comes in when Mr It's A Game's character puts themself in a position where MY character has to rely on them to keep me alive and because they made poor and uneducated choices about THEIR character the whole group suffers and dies and loses progress.
If you're gonna be a Feth What Other People Think kinda character, stay the hell out of groups where what you do matters to others than.
Elitist Jerks and MT'adin are non-existent to casual and freeform players, they're the goldmine for people who love achieving the very best that they can, and for some people.. people that both sides generally ignore, they're how they get their kicks.
If special snowflake players are A, elitist asses are B, and people that want the best out of their game.. the best numbers, the best performance are C...
A+C rarely interact in raids.. they don't want to be in the same type of guilds.. except when C has a free raid lock and wants to help a friend in an A-style guild. They interact in heroics but C generally enjoys the extra load that A's special freeform snowflake fun might plice on C. If they're in the mood, they might even joke and banter with A.
B+C rarely interact because C can't stand the idiots that cause drama. C also hates to see meters spammed after trash. "Yeah bro! We wiped because your aoe broke cc, but gj!" C hates to .. see .. meters in heroics because it's distracting and pointless. C certainly has meters running and will start analyzing them when the group can't complete something but Damage Taken - Interrupts - and detailed examination of Damage done to who is what C will be looking at. The guy doing 20k or the guy doing 5k can each be the one causing a wipe by either attacking, or not attacking a certain enemy.
A+B is where the problems come in. B probably isn't really an elite-skilled player, but he's gonna tout everything he's got. Learn to ignore B and you'll have plenty of fun with A and C.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Well said QFT
Those websites are like strategy guides.
If you want to ruin the experience and just jump to the last page of the book... sure, go visit those websites.
If you want to simply read the book, without others pointing out to read the last page, I am sure you will have a better experience... unless you don't like the book and want to end it quickly? (the book is the MMO)
Player A is the one that likes to read the book at his own speed, without C trying to say: "Why read a book if you can just jump to the last page, know the end and discuss what did you though about it?" Player A simply says: "What is there to discuss if you didn't even read HOW or WHY things end up like that in the end?"
Player B is the one that claims to have read the book but frankly, he didn't even passed the first page. He is the one that will discuss the book without even reading it and claim that what the C and A think is wrong, no mather how much you tell them they are wrong.
Player C is the one that, again, reads the last page and laugh at those that actually are trying to read the whole book. Don't think player C is A that read the whole book and now it's looking to lead the A readers. Those A's are actually D's...
Player D is the one that was A but finally ended. He will either post on websites to give their opinion about the books to make C's go wild and NEVER read the book fully OR he will simply continue to play the game silently and laugh at B's and C's and won't spoil the book to A's.
I see a universe where unicorns fly... and my mother-in-law is in a grave at last.
|BEST UNIVERSE EVA AWARD|
Hahah, the OP approaches the problem from the wrong angle. You can't change the people, but you can surly design a game in the way that issues observed in games like WoW or Rift won't happen. Just take a look at Guild Wars 2 design principles. It is yet to be seen what kind of new problems it will produce, but it is a great improvment over EQ/WoW lineage.
They don't think you like them. They make it anyway because it is easier and there is no diferent game at this very moment that can challenge the themeparks that is RELEASED.
I see a universe where unicorns fly... and my mother-in-law is in a grave at last.
|BEST UNIVERSE EVA AWARD|
Got a link to a credible source that says Blizzard is going to make a sandbox game for their next MMO?
Wait. Aren't you a Rogue? Did this happen to you or another Rogue? Regardless, those people are awful. They most likely act this way no matter what game they are in and are best to be ignored. I would absolutely spread the word about your story in general chat and about the guild. Let the bad press smack them in the face.
Your story is terrible and feel bad to whomever it was that happened to. Hopefully this guild will be shunned by others and their bad reputation will go on to haunt them.
yessir! agree 100%
I haven't seen this kind of bs on the server I play on, thank god for that. But ppl are ppl so some act retarted, I would not blame it on wow or any other game, it just is how some ppl are.
Currently playing: N/A
Retired from: GW, WAR, Aion, LOTRO, Rift, SW:TOR, Vinductus
I agree with that as well.
I've said for a long time that the people who most tell people to "learn to play" likely don't know the game as well as they think, themselves.
Want to know the best question to ask someone when they're telling you "you're supposed to spec like...." or "gear up like..." etc... Ask them "Why?"
"Why do I need to spec ilke that?" "Why should I use that specific gear?"
On rare occasion, you'll find someone who actually knows, understands the game system and can tell you exactly why.
More often, though, they'll say something along the of "Everyone knows that. It's what all the best guides say..." (or something similar)
Again... ask "Why? Why do the guides recommend that specific spec? What are the benefits of it compared to other comparable builds? How do the stats break down? Where are the benefits from it?"
You'll be amazed (or maybe not) at how often the people don't know. They have no idea. All they know is a guide tells them they're supposed to "play this way", and so they do... unquestioningly, to the letter. Yet, they're going around telling people to "learn to play". They should be saying "read and follow this guide before you join my group."
Irony at its most blatant.
If your success in a raid/xp party/etc. requires that you and everyone in your group follow a specific build, party setup, gear setup, etc.. based on a guide someone else created... You are not as good a player as you think.
If you truly understand the game and know the system, you can find ways to make *many* different group setups work... because you understand the strength and weakness of each.
I've seen this time and again in FFXI. People refuse to even try some events without the "perfect" setup based on what some guide says you need to succeed at it. They won't even attempt it unless everything is perfectly set up. It's always fun to see their astonishment when others, not following the guides *at all*, and in fact using a setup that "everyone knows won't work" - and pull it off without a hitch. Why? Because those people using the "unorthodox" setup are the ones who truly understand the game. They've done their research, they've had their hands-on experience, they understand the gameplay mechanics. They know what combinations of skills, classes, setups and such work, and how to apply each in a given setting.
Being good at following instructions someone else wrote doesn't make you a 'skilled player'. It makes you good at following instructions someone else wrote.
That's why I always have to smirk and shake my head when I see some one going off in a forum, or in a game, declaring "If you aren't spec'd properly the way you'r supposed to be, you will *not* be in my party!". I interpret that as "I don't know how to succeed unless everyone in my group is setup to the same cookie-cutter build I rely on to play".
It really is kinda funny. The only sad part is, people are being refused parties because of those clowns.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Mindsetting.
Do people even read their own headers?
In any case, this 'mindsetting' is common in all games that are easy to play. The alternative, however, are games that people cannot handle. Pick your poison.
Thats what all the people complaining about being told how to play/spec dont get. Theyre all "Its my game/money, ill play it my way blah blah blah" and get all pissy with anyone who tells them how to be better & more useful in a group, but dont consider the fact that they are hindering someone elses gameplay, not the other way around.
You want to be a special little snowflake, but being a special little snowflake who is only doing half of what theys hould be capable of with their class slows EVERYONE down. When youre in a group, its no longer all about you & your feelings, you are not the center of the universe. You complain about it being your money, but what about all the trouble youre causing for other people who pay the exact same amount as you (actually more than you if you combine everyone in the group vs just you)?
People are generally telling others to spec a certain way for a reason, because its the most effective at doing a particular job. If you refuse to listen to other's advice and insist on sticking to your way instead of the best/most effective way, then YOU are forcing YOUR way of playing on everyone in the group, not the other way around. What sounds worse, forcing several people to cater to 1 person so they can feel special & unique by being forced to make up for their bad build/playstyle, or an entire group of people asking that 1 person to change for the sake of several people?
The behavior the OP brings up i've seen on many games, not just wow. hell in the DCU beta there were people who i teamed up with trying to say the "perfect spec" for things on that game. it's just the "i've played 15 mins longer so i know more" syndrome. it's not going to change no matter the game, it's just a thing of just for arguments sake his spec was DIFFERENT then *gasp, god forbid he's an indivisual!* there's possibly a couple hundred different ways to spec for all i know. i'm just saying them pissing on his spec instead of just giving a helpful hint or 2 is one thing, but then the deal with the gear is just rediculous. they just did it to have a bow, that in the grand scheme of the game....hundreds and thousands will have at one point or another, so really, they did it just to stroke e-peen. it's sad, but true, and it'll happen again and again.
Played:FFXI, WoW, LOTR,EQ. Playing:FFXIV.
Looking Forward To:DCU, SWTOR.
They have done that years ago as well. When AQ opened it worked a bit like Rift. Not entirely but still.
If it ain't dead you're not pressing 2 hard enough.
Really? Didn't play then. Curious to know what they looked like--not that I'd expect them to look anywhere near as good as RIFT's--just curious to see if the cata event was a recycling of graphics.
Blizzard is definitely a company turning green. They've mastered Reuse and Recycle. C- in Reduce.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
First: I didn't know you wanted to end the game fast? Sorry? I didn't know you wanted to enjoy it deeply and actually lose a couple of times to perfect your OWN strategy (not some "other guy that told you and you are telling others because the guy that told is in a big website with many strategies so it must be the best strategy in the whole world and no one can deny it or die"). Sorry, some people don't follow strategy guides because it doesn't make sence.
If you were playing a single player game, would you buy the game with a walkthrough? If so, why? What is the fun of just doing what is told by someone that did the same has all those "snowflakes"? Sorry, that ain't skill, but like a previous post said, it's only following "orders" from another guy without knowing why. They just know it works and that is it. I would give a example but my examples would envolve messing with things behind anyone's limit and could offend someone (even though my objective is NOT to bash the people on the example, but yes giving an example. Still won't tell it).
Snowflake is a bit of offensive... I think "human" is the word. Every human is unique so, why use snowflake has a word to describe unique? It's like calling a animal a cat when it is a lion just to describe the animal is a feline. If we are snowflakes, then sorry to say this but your a program/software... because you keep reading the script without thinking why are you doing it (someone actually though for you).
- "If our system (actually it ain't yours, you just read somewhere and claimed to be yours) works, why the hell we need to "find a new one"?"
Good question, sherlock, but your missing the point: Did you REALLY learned about WHY is the system like that? Did you tried to check if there are other ways? Sure that there are more paths to rome than the highway that someone builded and claimed to be faster than all the roads. Maybe these... humans (not slowflakes) are trying to find a new path that is faster. Hard? Hell yeah, there is no road yet and it is covered by trees and wild animals. Of course, if we cut the path down (please don't hate me nature) and build a new highway, I am sure you will follow it too and then claim to be YOUR strategy has well.
- "That is stupid... why would you do that and not just use the highway like everyone else?"
*coff* traffic *coff* we don't like to follow a larger road just because a gazillion follow it. It losses the fun of adventuring. I am sure you will spend more time with your friends in a forest, all the way to rome instead of grabbing a car and horn it because of the traffic, yelling: "MOVE AWAY, I'M IN A HURRY TO SEE UNCLE BOB'S CONCERT! SCREW THIS, THIS LINE (raid/group) IS NOT MOVING, GOING TO CHANGE LANE... OMG, IT'S SLOW TOO! *RAGE*"
- "Your example is stupid and doesn't make sence!"
Well, sorry but, there is actually no real example to this... your playing a game and bashing people for not playing the way you want.
Probably fashion is a much better example. "Pink is fashion, all the top models dress in pink so if you don't wear Pink, your not worthy". Why is Pink THE color? Screw pink, I prefer Black or White (or both =P).
Andrea (The guys that follow some guy's strategy): "Tiffany... why are you wearing White colors? Your making me and my friends look bad, we are all Pink and your with that... white thing! You know that our source says that the Vice-President doesn't like people that dress something without Pink! We won't get promoted like this... GET AWAY, your ruining our style!"
Tiffany (The humans, not snowflakes): "Whatever Andrea, I don't dress Pink because some top model told you to."
Andrea: "Wait... is that Laura?"
Laura (Elitist): "Ugh, your all dressed in Pink, BOOORING... and Tiffany, is that white? Sooo 80's..."
Tiffany: "But... your naked?"
Andrea: "Yeah, your naked... I don't care if you wear white or other color, just put something up, woman!"
Laura: "Who cares what you think... I look pretty and you know it. See you around, dork faces! I will find a group of girls that understand my modern ways!" <- probably a naked beach zone.
My opinion:
Why the hell are we even discussing this? Some people like to read the last page of the book (or never read it) and stick with the opinions of those that ACTUALLY read the book fully. Others like to read the book slowly and take a few breaks and think about the things that happened and why and others just don't read and bash those that do and claim to know what the book is talking about. JUST... FREAKIN... AVOID... EACH.... OTHERS!
Make a group of pink dresses only, make a club of people that want to try diferent clothes for a exchange and others can always go naked in a naked beach zone with other naked people. Why do they have to mix up and fight because one is naked, the other is always in pink and the other just doesn't stick with the rest of the group?
It's just a game, relax and enjoy the way you like it with the people you like it and don't force people to change their ways because you think "it's the best".
I see a universe where unicorns fly... and my mother-in-law is in a grave at last.
|BEST UNIVERSE EVA AWARD|