As an old Top Secret SI PnP player, TA caught my eye a couple of years ago, but little information being released diminished my excitement, and when they presented it as a FPS with a touch of esionage, I lost interest. Fortunately, TSW looks to be great (despite my feelings towards Funcom for AoC), so TA will not be missed that badly.
I have come to realize that fantasy don't tickle my fancy anymore. Nothing wrong with the genre, but I would love to play something different.
Does anyone realize how irrational it is to hate a corporation? It isn't really an actual thing, just some story told in tax codes and bank accounts.
Furthermore, to hate some guy because he messes up at work? Lord, I'm glad there aren't forums for some of my projects.
And there are people involved... probably wanted to work on games all their lives. The management and devs you're talking about got there without any game centric degree programs in an environment where the industry wasn't taken seriously and wanting to design games was akin to wanting to play with toys. These people are pioneers - whether they drew the pixels or led the financial teams - they were a big part in bringing you the choice you have today.
I think it's fine to disagree with the direction a game takes, but seriously - the rage? Give me a break. Like anyone here has a clue what it takes to run a project of that magnitude or has a crystal ball into what impact next years technology will have on the industry....What happens when google starts analyzing writing styles and returns your posts right next to your facebook profile?
At least SOE messes up trying to innovate instead of milking a cultural icon with micro-transactions. April Fools - screw Cryptic, I hope they all melt in acid RAAAAAGGGE!
Listen up, with the death of this game the NDA was lifted. Therefore, I'd like to mention a couple horrible things about this game:
-Their shooting model was Tabula Rasa style, all you had to do was "highlight" someone's body, and then fire. Your "bullets" had a chance of hitting the enemy. It was all % based per shot, no skill involved.
-All match makling, with a 3D lobby ala Huxley/Global Agenda (lol)/ etc etc. Essentially a modern Doom 3 with "MMO" put on the front of it to get more $$ from people.
-The Game was terrible, it's a GOOD thing this was canceled, it was a waste of production.
FYI: The issues in Japan are NOT hurting SOE, SONY is SOE's parent company. However, 90% of SOE's assets are OUTSIDE of japan. They have studios all around the US and in Europe. The reason for the cuts are that they CHOSE to redirect assets from SOE to help SONY Japan get back on their feet.
Nuff said..
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Sucks to hear about the ppl losing there jobs at sony but they had to at least know it was coming. I mean SOE = the black death for mmo's.
If you ever need anything please don't hesitate to ask someone else first.I'm too busyactinglikeI'mnotnaiveI'veseenitall, I was herefirst. -Very Ape- Nirvana
LOL. I always knew they never had any potential in the game. Game is preety plain and dull in my eyes, just another type of lobby organized FPS with various weapons and fancy graphics.
Wow, talk about full circle. Planetside was starved for development and marketing for years, and iirc, it was because Smeds thought The Agency would be a more attractive game for the PS playerbase. I recall b*tching on the PS forums about how SOE thought we would pay to play whatever THEY wanted us to.
Also, I don't believe it about PS Next and EQ whatever. Free Realms has almost 20 million players now. I think SOE is going to drop the old-school MMOs and go with titles like FR, because that's where the money is.
That's not a bad thing, I've wanted to see PS sold off to an indie developer for a looong time. One who would take out the crap that was shoveled into the game to Show the Devs were Working and bring it back to the group-based objective-oriented kickass wargame that hooked me back in 2005.
I understand games getting scrapped but after about 3 years or so of advertising etc etc hypes and then just stopping kinda crap and thats another black mark on soe's part if they cant afford to produce like 10 games simutaneously they shouldnt even start them better yet dont freakin start announcing them.
SOE ... They love to torcher and kill games that start with good ideas and story, then they just smash em and dumb them down till they die. It makes me sad.. R.I.P SWG. The Matrix. and now The agency. Thats 3 confirmed but Im sure theres more... Theres always more...
SOE is now offically a Serial killer...
:'-(
You're a moron, SOE saved the Matrix from being killed long before. They tried to rebuild the game but it was too far gone. And SWG is still going pretty strong apparently, despite what you feel about it.
SOE may not be a perfect company, and does a lot of dumb things. But you show me one company that is perfect? Wait, excuse me, show me one MMO developement company that is perfect? It is a redicilously tough genre because theres just so many factors that come into play.
And don't start talking about games that haven't come out, lord knows every MMO that has not launched yet is the "WoW killer" and the best MMO ever.
I understand games getting scrapped but after about 3 years or so of advertising etc etc hypes and then just stopping kinda crap and thats another black mark on soe's part if they cant afford to produce like 10 games simutaneously they shouldnt even start them better yet dont freakin start announcing them.
There's a lot of possible reasons an MMO gets yoinked after 3 years of advertising. Some of the big ones:
The MMO market usually shifts or changes every few years. It's psossible that what was planned six years ago still looked relatively good three years ago, but now doesn't look like it will be anything that will warrant the next three years of resources.
Maybe it's only now they are seeing major issues witht he core gameplay or some really majot feature that will require more work than is feasible to correct. After all, any dev can tell you that a great idea is sometimes indistibguishable from a horrible idea until it is implemented.
Maybe they feel the audience that will like it already has a flood of new games coming at them and the market is saturated.
Maybe they were busy doing the dev blinders dance around something they thought would be super popular, but only realized now that there were very few outside of the dev team that even found it remotely interesting.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I'd like to point out that several games taken in by SOE would have died a quick and painless death at the hands of dept collectorsas the studios developing them went down in flames. SOE have bought several high risk projects over the years and it would seem that at least one company was impressed with the work they did as WB/DC hired them to make another MMO despite what happend to MxO
Would have been a nice game... But i think they looked at APB and relised that the idea is somewhat flawed and very hard ti implement.
SOE only purchased The Matrix as part of the deal to get the DC license. It was never awarded to SOE for doing a good job. Not that SOE actually did a good job or "saved" the matrix from anything. They simply let it die a very slow ugly public death while stringing players along with false hope that they would invest in the game.
Just like they "saved" vanguard in the same fashion.
Fact is that it doesn't matter if SOE purchases an already established or troubled game, is handed a major gold mine IP on multiple occasions, creates their own game, acts as the publisher for another mmo studio, tries to enter the eastern market with their own studio, the ps3 market, the mac market, the trading card market or anything else. Failure constantly follows whatever SOE gets involved with and this is the result.
Wow, this was a really good article. If I had read this before, I wouldn't have signed the Petition - there probably wouldn't be much real code out there to continue from.
Why they even thought that it was a good idea to make such MMO?
Wanna make money SoE? Fantasy for the win...............remember you got a super IP parked somewhere in the basement of Austin Studios? (EQ)
Stop with all this crap no one wants to play (Free Realms, DCU, The Agency)
Lol, like anyone wants to play EQ
Many more than you think, all the people that played the original and I guess many more that never played it because they weren't MMO players when it was at its peak
Of course it needs to be done right, not another EQ2, or they can just give their money to charity.........it would serve better use
SOE only purchased The Matrix as part of the deal to get the DC license. It was never awarded to SOE for doing a good job. Not that SOE actually did a good job or "saved" the matrix from anything. They simply let it die a very slow ugly public death while stringing players along with false hope that they would invest in the game.
Just like they "saved" vanguard in the same fashion.
Fact is that it doesn't matter if SOE purchases an already established or troubled game, is handed a major gold mine IP on multiple occasions, creates their own game, acts as the publisher for another mmo studio, tries to enter the eastern market with their own studio, the ps3 market, the mac market, the trading card market or anything else. Failure constantly follows whatever SOE gets involved with and this is the result.
This could not have been better stated. Factual and irrefutable. Well done.
To anyone who thinks that corporations shouldn't be blasted because they are "not real entities" I suggest this:
Go take your PONTIAC and drive by the ENRON building and try to sell that pitch there... if they still have offices somewhere.
I'd like to point out that several games taken in by SOE would have died a quick and painless death at the hands of dept collectorsas the studios developing them went down in flames. SOE have bought several high risk projects over the years and it would seem that at least one company was impressed with the work they did as WB/DC hired them to make another MMO despite what happend to MxO
Would have been a nice game... But i think they looked at APB and relised that the idea is somewhat flawed and very hard ti implement.
SOE only purchased The Matrix as part of the deal to get the DC license. It was never awarded to SOE for doing a good job. Not that SOE actually did a good job or "saved" the matrix from anything. They simply let it die a very slow ugly public death while stringing players along with false hope that they would invest in the game.
Just like they "saved" vanguard in the same fashion.
Fact is that it doesn't matter if SOE purchases an already established or troubled game, is handed a major gold mine IP on multiple occasions, creates their own game, acts as the publisher for another mmo studio, tries to enter the eastern market with their own studio, the ps3 market, the mac market, the trading card market or anything else. Failure constantly follows whatever SOE gets involved with and this is the result.
Oh well, I mean.. As long as EQ Next can have the proper attention SOE needs to give it-- because honestly the rest of their games don't matter.
DCU had the best of the best over at SOE. It had over 5 years and over $50 million dollars. What happens in other soe games is very relevant to what will likely happen in EQ3.
EQ3 is going to be created by what is left at SOE after the cuts. Most likely with a much smaller time frame, much smaller budget and smaller development team.
Oh well, I mean.. As long as EQ Next can have the proper attention SOE needs to give it-- because honestly the rest of their games don't matter.
DCU had the best of the best over at SOE. It had over 5 years and over $50 million dollars. What happens in other soe games is very relevant to what will likely happen in EQ3.
EQ3 is going to be created by what is left at SOE after the cuts. Most likely with a much smaller time frame, much smaller budget and smaller development team.
Sounds good to me.
It seems like a ton of cash goes in to making pretty wow-clones. A more honed focus in development may be the magic needed to give EverQuest the proper look it deserves. Lots of lessons to be gained from the old formula, but something drastic needs to happen to pull back in 300k+ subs.
Which I honestly think they could do considering the talent they're keeping.
It seems like a ton of cash goes in to making pretty wow-clones. A more honed focus in development may be the magic needed to give EverQuest the proper look it deserves. Lots of lessons to be gained from the old formula, but something drastic needs to happen to pull back in 300k+ subs.
Which I honestly think they could do considering the talent they're keeping.
Recent track record aside and all.
Considering the talent they are keeping? DCU was their alpha team with more time and resources than anything they will be able to muster in the future.
Recent track record aside, SOE has never been able to produce a 300k mmo since they purchased Everquest from Verant and that was created before SOE existed.
SOE is now in a situation where they must create a winner. They have a very scaled down staff spread over more games to support. Money problems that keep them cutting staff and not exactly a huge timetable to work with. The pressure is most certainly on which should signal alarms.
Look at how SOE performed in the past under pressure. When they had more money, staff and time.
SWG rushed to release to meet deadlines. Combat upgrade rushed to stem subscription loss. NGE rushed to make money.
EQ2 rushed to market to compete with wow. Combat upgrade rushed to market to reverse subscrption loss.
DCU released incomplete, untested and severly lacking. Pressured to release on consoles.
Take your pick of any expansion for any game to see the quality being delivered.
That track record doesn't really give much reason to think adding more pressure and less resources.
Furthermore I suspect the financial situation that SOE is in is dictating that they cut based on salary and not talent level.
It seems like a ton of cash goes in to making pretty wow-clones. A more honed focus in development may be the magic needed to give EverQuest the proper look it deserves. Lots of lessons to be gained from the old formula, but something drastic needs to happen to pull back in 300k+ subs.
Which I honestly think they could do considering the talent they're keeping.
Recent track record aside and all.
Considering the talent they are keeping? DCU was their alpha team with more time and resources than anything they will be able to muster in the future.
That track record doesn't really give much reason to think adding more pressure and less resources.
Furthermore I suspect the financial situation that SOE is in is dictating that they cut based on salary and not talent level.
Well duh. The King wasn't looking at a spruce and calling it a flower.
DCUO was fine. It wasn't that buggy, as polished as RIFT but got marketed different because it was different. The community chasitises different; and it went as per usual in regards to both games releasing.
Plus have you seen EQ and EQ2's last updates? I've not played them but they did a whole lot of good work and added some great ideas to their aged products. Which leads me to believe if they built a new modern engine to house these innovations it'd make for a great game.
Of course finances have everything to do with it. But streamlining your focus, as my previous post pointed to, can make for a better production environment. It doesn't always hinder; just depends on what goals you have set before you.
Nvidia had to trim the fat not too long ago. Had some real meh products coming after the 6800. Then they focused and now their new cards run spiffy.
Nvidia had to trim the fat not too long ago. Had some real meh products coming after the 6800. Then they focused and now their new cards run spiffy.
Don't be hatin' stuff just cuz it's new.
This isn't a company that is trimming the fat here. SOE just went through its THIRD round of layoffs which now include closing studios and cancelling entire mmo project. SOE purchased fireant games, set up studio in seattle for 6 years and has NOTHING to show for it.
It is one thing for a company to have release a bad product or make some mistakes during their long history, but Nvidia has had plenty of success that outweight the bad. Soe isn't exactly a company that is marked by its many successes. Outside of their purchase of EQ most of what they have done is marked by severe decline, cuts and delays.
I just don't see how such a massive reduction in revenue, time and money will result in SOE doing something it has never been able to do aside from the one game they purcased over 10 years ago.
I'll likely get bashed, but EQ2 is a great game, if you have not played it recently you should.
Just saying.
Sure there are things SOE has done wrong, but I believe they certainly have the capacity to create a good game, just like any other company that put's their minds to it.
SOE ... They love to torcher and kill games that start with good ideas and story, then they just smash em and dumb them down till they die. It makes me sad.. R.I.P SWG. The Matrix. and now The agency. Thats 3 confirmed but Im sure theres more... Theres always more...
SOE is now offically a Serial killer...
:'-(
You're a moron, SOE saved the Matrix from being killed long before. They tried to rebuild the game but it was too far gone. And SWG is still going pretty strong apparently, despite what you feel about it.
SOE may not be a perfect company, and does a lot of dumb things. But you show me one company that is perfect? Wait, excuse me, show me one MMO developement company that is perfect? It is a redicilously tough genre because theres just so many factors that come into play.
And don't start talking about games that haven't come out, lord knows every MMO that has not launched yet is the "WoW killer" and the best MMO ever.
Your 100% on the mark that mmo's are a tough market with an infinite number of things to go wrong with them. And the wow killer bit on new games coming out is lol true, but when you said that SWG is still going strong you Sir are misinformed!
Around 500 ish people on the few "high" pop servers on at any given time the last time I saw a post of the server stats. People that played that game pre cu/nge may agree with me may not (there where well over 350k of us back then if memory servers) but that game was pure sandbox heaven untill soe got in our bases and killed our dudes, so I'm left soe jaded forever and it's probably b/c I don't think I'll ever enjoy a game that much again But yea long story short soe = the touch of death
If you ever need anything please don't hesitate to ask someone else first.I'm too busyactinglikeI'mnotnaiveI'veseenitall, I was herefirst. -Very Ape- Nirvana
Comments
As an old Top Secret SI PnP player, TA caught my eye a couple of years ago, but little information being released diminished my excitement, and when they presented it as a FPS with a touch of esionage, I lost interest. Fortunately, TSW looks to be great (despite my feelings towards Funcom for AoC), so TA will not be missed that badly.
I have come to realize that fantasy don't tickle my fancy anymore. Nothing wrong with the genre, but I would love to play something different.
Does anyone realize how irrational it is to hate a corporation? It isn't really an actual thing, just some story told in tax codes and bank accounts.
Furthermore, to hate some guy because he messes up at work? Lord, I'm glad there aren't forums for some of my projects.
And there are people involved... probably wanted to work on games all their lives. The management and devs you're talking about got there without any game centric degree programs in an environment where the industry wasn't taken seriously and wanting to design games was akin to wanting to play with toys. These people are pioneers - whether they drew the pixels or led the financial teams - they were a big part in bringing you the choice you have today.
I think it's fine to disagree with the direction a game takes, but seriously - the rage? Give me a break. Like anyone here has a clue what it takes to run a project of that magnitude or has a crystal ball into what impact next years technology will have on the industry....What happens when google starts analyzing writing styles and returns your posts right next to your facebook profile?
At least SOE messes up trying to innovate instead of milking a cultural icon with micro-transactions. April Fools - screw Cryptic, I hope they all melt in acid RAAAAAGGGE!
Seriously though guys...
Planetside 2 or DUST 514?
Listen up, with the death of this game the NDA was lifted. Therefore, I'd like to mention a couple horrible things about this game:
-Their shooting model was Tabula Rasa style, all you had to do was "highlight" someone's body, and then fire. Your "bullets" had a chance of hitting the enemy. It was all % based per shot, no skill involved.
-All match makling, with a 3D lobby ala Huxley/Global Agenda (lol)/ etc etc. Essentially a modern Doom 3 with "MMO" put on the front of it to get more $$ from people.
-The Game was terrible, it's a GOOD thing this was canceled, it was a waste of production.
FYI: The issues in Japan are NOT hurting SOE, SONY is SOE's parent company. However, 90% of SOE's assets are OUTSIDE of japan. They have studios all around the US and in Europe. The reason for the cuts are that they CHOSE to redirect assets from SOE to help SONY Japan get back on their feet.
Nuff said..
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Sucks to hear about the ppl losing there jobs at sony but they had to at least know it was coming. I mean SOE = the black death for mmo's.
LOL. I always knew they never had any potential in the game. Game is preety plain and dull in my eyes, just another type of lobby organized FPS with various weapons and fancy graphics.
Wow, talk about full circle. Planetside was starved for development and marketing for years, and iirc, it was because Smeds thought The Agency would be a more attractive game for the PS playerbase. I recall b*tching on the PS forums about how SOE thought we would pay to play whatever THEY wanted us to.
Also, I don't believe it about PS Next and EQ whatever. Free Realms has almost 20 million players now. I think SOE is going to drop the old-school MMOs and go with titles like FR, because that's where the money is.
That's not a bad thing, I've wanted to see PS sold off to an indie developer for a looong time. One who would take out the crap that was shoveled into the game to Show the Devs were Working and bring it back to the group-based objective-oriented kickass wargame that hooked me back in 2005.
I understand games getting scrapped but after about 3 years or so of advertising etc etc hypes and then just stopping kinda crap and thats another black mark on soe's part if they cant afford to produce like 10 games simutaneously they shouldnt even start them better yet dont freakin start announcing them.
You're a moron, SOE saved the Matrix from being killed long before. They tried to rebuild the game but it was too far gone. And SWG is still going pretty strong apparently, despite what you feel about it.
SOE may not be a perfect company, and does a lot of dumb things. But you show me one company that is perfect? Wait, excuse me, show me one MMO developement company that is perfect? It is a redicilously tough genre because theres just so many factors that come into play.
And don't start talking about games that haven't come out, lord knows every MMO that has not launched yet is the "WoW killer" and the best MMO ever.
SOE Better off doing something they are confident with.
There's a lot of possible reasons an MMO gets yoinked after 3 years of advertising. Some of the big ones:
The MMO market usually shifts or changes every few years. It's psossible that what was planned six years ago still looked relatively good three years ago, but now doesn't look like it will be anything that will warrant the next three years of resources.
Maybe it's only now they are seeing major issues witht he core gameplay or some really majot feature that will require more work than is feasible to correct. After all, any dev can tell you that a great idea is sometimes indistibguishable from a horrible idea until it is implemented.
Maybe they feel the audience that will like it already has a flood of new games coming at them and the market is saturated.
Maybe they were busy doing the dev blinders dance around something they thought would be super popular, but only realized now that there were very few outside of the dev team that even found it remotely interesting.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
SOE only purchased The Matrix as part of the deal to get the DC license. It was never awarded to SOE for doing a good job. Not that SOE actually did a good job or "saved" the matrix from anything. They simply let it die a very slow ugly public death while stringing players along with false hope that they would invest in the game.
Just like they "saved" vanguard in the same fashion.
Fact is that it doesn't matter if SOE purchases an already established or troubled game, is handed a major gold mine IP on multiple occasions, creates their own game, acts as the publisher for another mmo studio, tries to enter the eastern market with their own studio, the ps3 market, the mac market, the trading card market or anything else. Failure constantly follows whatever SOE gets involved with and this is the result.
Wow, this was a really good article. If I had read this before, I wouldn't have signed the Petition - there probably wouldn't be much real code out there to continue from.
Many more than you think, all the people that played the original and I guess many more that never played it because they weren't MMO players when it was at its peak
Of course it needs to be done right, not another EQ2, or they can just give their money to charity.........it would serve better use
This could not have been better stated. Factual and irrefutable. Well done.
To anyone who thinks that corporations shouldn't be blasted because they are "not real entities" I suggest this:
Go take your PONTIAC and drive by the ENRON building and try to sell that pitch there... if they still have offices somewhere.
That about sums it up...
But little Mouse, you are not alone,
In proving foresight may be vain:
The best laid schemes of mice and men
Go often askew,
The King recites!
Oh well, I mean.. As long as EQ Next can have the proper attention SOE needs to give it-- because honestly the rest of their games don't matter.
DCU had the best of the best over at SOE. It had over 5 years and over $50 million dollars. What happens in other soe games is very relevant to what will likely happen in EQ3.
EQ3 is going to be created by what is left at SOE after the cuts. Most likely with a much smaller time frame, much smaller budget and smaller development team.
Sounds good to me.
It seems like a ton of cash goes in to making pretty wow-clones. A more honed focus in development may be the magic needed to give EverQuest the proper look it deserves. Lots of lessons to be gained from the old formula, but something drastic needs to happen to pull back in 300k+ subs.
Which I honestly think they could do considering the talent they're keeping.
Recent track record aside and all.
Considering the talent they are keeping? DCU was their alpha team with more time and resources than anything they will be able to muster in the future.
Recent track record aside, SOE has never been able to produce a 300k mmo since they purchased Everquest from Verant and that was created before SOE existed.
SOE is now in a situation where they must create a winner. They have a very scaled down staff spread over more games to support. Money problems that keep them cutting staff and not exactly a huge timetable to work with. The pressure is most certainly on which should signal alarms.
Look at how SOE performed in the past under pressure. When they had more money, staff and time.
SWG rushed to release to meet deadlines. Combat upgrade rushed to stem subscription loss. NGE rushed to make money.
EQ2 rushed to market to compete with wow. Combat upgrade rushed to market to reverse subscrption loss.
DCU released incomplete, untested and severly lacking. Pressured to release on consoles.
Take your pick of any expansion for any game to see the quality being delivered.
That track record doesn't really give much reason to think adding more pressure and less resources.
Furthermore I suspect the financial situation that SOE is in is dictating that they cut based on salary and not talent level.
Well duh. The King wasn't looking at a spruce and calling it a flower.
DCUO was fine. It wasn't that buggy, as polished as RIFT but got marketed different because it was different. The community chasitises different; and it went as per usual in regards to both games releasing.
Plus have you seen EQ and EQ2's last updates? I've not played them but they did a whole lot of good work and added some great ideas to their aged products. Which leads me to believe if they built a new modern engine to house these innovations it'd make for a great game.
Of course finances have everything to do with it. But streamlining your focus, as my previous post pointed to, can make for a better production environment. It doesn't always hinder; just depends on what goals you have set before you.
Nvidia had to trim the fat not too long ago. Had some real meh products coming after the 6800. Then they focused and now their new cards run spiffy.
Don't be hatin' stuff just cuz it's new.
This isn't a company that is trimming the fat here. SOE just went through its THIRD round of layoffs which now include closing studios and cancelling entire mmo project. SOE purchased fireant games, set up studio in seattle for 6 years and has NOTHING to show for it.
It is one thing for a company to have release a bad product or make some mistakes during their long history, but Nvidia has had plenty of success that outweight the bad. Soe isn't exactly a company that is marked by its many successes. Outside of their purchase of EQ most of what they have done is marked by severe decline, cuts and delays.
I just don't see how such a massive reduction in revenue, time and money will result in SOE doing something it has never been able to do aside from the one game they purcased over 10 years ago.
Anything is possible I guess.
I'll likely get bashed, but EQ2 is a great game, if you have not played it recently you should.
Just saying.
Sure there are things SOE has done wrong, but I believe they certainly have the capacity to create a good game, just like any other company that put's their minds to it.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Your 100% on the mark that mmo's are a tough market with an infinite number of things to go wrong with them. And the wow killer bit on new games coming out is lol true, but when you said that SWG is still going strong you Sir are misinformed!
Around 500 ish people on the few "high" pop servers on at any given time the last time I saw a post of the server stats. People that played that game pre cu/nge may agree with me may not (there where well over 350k of us back then if memory servers) but that game was pure sandbox heaven untill soe got in our bases and killed our dudes, so I'm left soe jaded forever and it's probably b/c I don't think I'll ever enjoy a game that much again
But yea long story short soe = the touch of death