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1 Reason is all I need not to play...

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  • AmanaAmana Moderator UncommonPosts: 3,912

    Please cut out the personal attacks and personal attacks. If you can't continue civilly, then the thread may be locked.

    To give feedback on moderation, contact mikeb@mmorpg.com

  • MeowheadMeowhead Member UncommonPosts: 3,716

    Originally posted by dreamer05

    It is what I have always played and always enjoyed.  I enjoy the skill it takes to be a great healer and be able to get any group out of a sticky and dangerous situation.  I enjoy being responsible for keeping everyone alive.  I enjoy the respect that people give to those they recognize as genuinely great healers.

    Aha.  I am going to personally hold you responsible for all the ills of the MMO world!

    You see, this is the way it works.  If there are REALLY great healers, then they can really work well with a group to clear much more difficult content.  In order to keep teams from clearing the content too quickly, the game designers have to make it more difficult.

    ... which means that at least a pretty good healer becomes NECESSARY.  Except there's not enough of them to go around.

    ... which is why they create dungeon finders.

    ... which is why people don't explore as much.

    ... but they still have to wait large amounts of time.

    YOU.  You're the one personally responsible for queues and dungeon finders.

    ... somebody call the police and take this criminal away for destroying MMOs. :(

    (... I feel like Sherlock Holmes!)

    (More seriously, that's one of the big problems with healers.  The amount of people who truly enjoy being a healer is not nearly as great as the amount of healers that are actually needed in most MMORPGs.  Which is why you get a lot of people who don't WANT to be a healer, ending up in that role anyway.  Whether or not healers are awesome is besides the point, the reality of things is, not enough people want to be a healer, which is what makes a good one so valuable and rare.  It means that many people (Not all) would rather the necessity of healers be dialed back quite a lot.  There are other possible solutions, like making being a healer a really attractive proposition for most people, but for some reason, I can't think of any MMO offhand that has done that.)

    (Edit:  I wrote this before I read what Amana wrote, but hopefully everybody can tell I am not seriously accusing anybody of ruining MMOs singlehandedly. <.<  Though if I DID have to get busted by somebody, Perry the Platypus would be my first choice.)


    Originally posted by Amana

    Please cut out the personal attacks and personal attacks. If you can't continue civilly, then the thread may be locked.

  • SiderasSideras Member Posts: 231

    If someone enjoys looking and clicking on green bars for hours upon end then that someone needs to get their head checked out.

    And I would reckon you are in the minority.

    People want a challenge fine, but looking at bars and ending the day with a headache is not a challenge.

  • BTrayaLBTrayaL Member UncommonPosts: 624

    I for one will really enjoy being able to enter a hard fight without shouting for some healer. Just me and my friends, unconstrained by some artificial boundary.

    image
  • goblagobla Member UncommonPosts: 1,412

    Originally posted by BTrayaL

    Originally posted by gobla


    Originally posted by BTrayaL

    But to say that you won't play GW2 (or any unreleased/beta promissing games) BECAUSE of this kind of threads is childish, to say the least.

    And how is it childish to not play a game because you don't like some parts of it? If I don't like guns am I being childish if I don't play shooters without trying them first? Personally I play games for fun. If I don't think I'm going to have fun playing something I'm not even going to try it. Why risk not having fun when there's other games out there I'm fairly certain I will have fun with?

    I sugest you read again the part about "childish". Actually READ it, maybe you will understand. Not that it's hard.. but apparently it is.

    Please explain what's so childish about not playing a game because you don't like part of the community involved, the part that makes "this kind of threads".

    Community is a big part of MMOs. If I think a decent part of the community will not be to my liking then I won't play the game. How is that childish?

    Or even if we're just talking about forums. How is it childish to not play a game because you don't like the way it's being talked about on the forums.

    I mean we're not talking about life choices here. We're talking about a computer game. Something designed to have fun with. I'd say being adult about that means you play the games you think you're going to have fun with. And if there's any reason at all you don't think you're going to have fun with them then you should be adult enough to take yourself seriously and not play them.

    I mean what is he really missing out on if he doesn't play GW2? It's not like GW2 is a great phylosophical work giving insight into our lives.

    If he doesn't want to play it then let him. What does it matter really? Why the need to call him childish or close-minded? It's just a game...

    We are the bunny.
    Resistance is futile.
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  • KothosesKothoses Member UncommonPosts: 931

    Originally posted by gobla

    Originally posted by Zeroxin

    http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/?lang=en&code=32f81552a7639d2f276c5;3214e9436c8be72a78c3c14eb&switch=2f360c133

    That is my case in point, the Guardian can heal and protect but like most of the skills in GW2 he's also doing damage and controlling the enemy. Other professions can support their fellow teammates or allies to some extent, some greater than others, the Guardian is part of the greater end of the spectrum right there with the necro and the ele.

    I'm not fighting that the guardian can't be an interesting and even supportive class,

    but it's not a prot monk. If you think that applying 2 conditions: protection and regeneration, and some protective bubbles and shields is the equivalent of the huge array of options available to the protection monk then you've never played one.

    As a protection Monk I had over 50 diffirent protective enchantments to choose from. Most with unique effects that all had diffirent situations in which they were ideal.

    The guardian is a totally diffirent class. It doesn't have the large array of protective enchantments. It does have interesting area effects in the form of their shields, domes, lines and symbols.

    I'm not saying that the guardian is in any way lesser then the monk, but it is a diffirent class. If I liked being a prot monk then I won't automatically like the guardian. And if I don't like the guardian but do like healers then it doesn't mean that I'm some sort of socially deranged person with a desperate need to be wanted and needed by people playing online video games.

    Why is it so hard to admit that GW2 isn't the game for everyone? Why must everyone who doesn't like GW2 be branded as some sort of idiot who obviously thinks whack-a-mole and endless gear grind is what fun is all about? Why must everytime someone admits to liking healing he be given the choice of either admitting that the guardian takes all the fun parts of healing while leaving the unfun parts behind or being branded as a retarded sociopath who just wants other players to wait for him and be required in all forms of gameplay?

    Because people on this forum want to "Stick it to the man" they dont want "mainstream" they hate Blizzard, Bioware, SOE and Every single one of them played SWG pre NGE.

    GW is so indie its cool for them to hop on the bandwagon and proclaim it the next BIG thing (In truth it will be the next medium thing most likely because everyone knows a triple A sandbox would get 7 billion subs right?) anyone who enjoys the trinity style gameplay is obviously a corporate hack sucking on the lollypop of mediocrity.

  • just2duhjust2duh Member Posts: 1,290

     The time saved from not having to look for a healer is a big bonus, but at the same time I don't see why things couldn't be the way they are going to be and still have a dedicated healer class for those who do enjoy it, there would be no harm in that at all.

     But instead they excluded a rather small population of players that enjoy full-on healing classes, it does seem unfair.

     I myself enjoy playing that roll from time to time, given very rarely, but it offers a nice change of pace and gives a game a really different feel if you find yourself feeling the grind from all they other classes that are basically DPS based. Kind of sucks not to have that option, but them's the cards they're dealing lol.

  • goblagobla Member UncommonPosts: 1,412

    Originally posted by Kothoses

    Because people on this forum want to "Stick it to the man" they dont want "mainstream" they hate Blizzard, Bioware, SOE and Every single one of them played SWG pre NGE.

    GW is so indie its cool for them to hop on the bandwagon and proclaim it the next BIG thing (In truth it will be the next medium thing most likely because everyone knows a triple A sandbox would get 7 billion subs right?) anyone who enjoys the trinity style gameplay is obviously a corporate hack sucking on the lollypop of mediocrity.

    Heh, thank you. Put a smile on my face. Sorely tempted to use this as my sig because personally I think this post is sheer awesomeness. Well said, and always good to put a lighter tone in a thread like this.

    We are the bunny.
    Resistance is futile.
    ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
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  • jukinrujukinru Member Posts: 76

    @Gobla true on all accounts accept for the prophecy, it is why the calender stops in 2012.

    @Dreamer I can respect those reasons there all good. Those reasons are all going to be in GW2 just not for one person in a group. Everyone will be responsible for getting through content.  Also if you look at the way there doing combat a healer class isn't really needed in GW2. If people are avoiding damage like they should healing and prevention will be needed less and less as people get better at avoidance. A true healing class would become OP and probably very boring. Although it would be pretty funny to have a healer yell at you for not taking enough damge to give them something to do. :D

  • goblagobla Member UncommonPosts: 1,412

    Originally posted by jukinru

    @Gobla true on all accounts accept for the prophecy, it is why the calender stops in 2012.

    Do you know what this means?

    WE HAVE THE GW2 RELEASE DATE! 21/12/2012!

    We are the bunny.
    Resistance is futile.
    ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
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  • alkrmralkrmr Member UncommonPosts: 236
    With the dynamic events, you don't have all day to wait around for a healer, take rift for example, heals help out but events can be overcome with strategy and/or manpower.
  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo Member UncommonPosts: 3,219

    Originally posted by dreamer05


    I will definitively admit I come here with a frustrated attitude.  With years of watching these forums and watching people troll and hate on games that they don't like, and watching dozens of people every day in the Rift forums bashing a game which really isn't bad.  If it's not your cup of tea, then fine.  Don't come to the forums bashing a game you either haven't tried or didn't enjoy.  The other end of my frustration is with people worshipping GW2 as the second coming.  It has become a standard and annoying behavior that the whole community, at least on this site, gets all ramped up and starts bowing to the ground of the next big MMO.  Then as soon as it comes out everyone has some reason to be so dramatically disappointed in one way or the other and the game fizzles out in a couple of months.  This has been a trend I have been riding and watching ever since Vanguard.  I have always watched and read and ignored for the most part.  I thought for once "hey I have to read all the other garbage out here that people write, maybe it's my turn."  And so from that came, after reading all the thousands of reasons that GW2 will become the new MMO God, the one reason I will not be playing it. 


     


    To all of those who posted helpful information I thank you.  I am aware of all the forms that "Healing" can take.  I also look at those of you who truly don't appreciate good healers with contempt.  Your 'all healer are healbots' theory is completely insulting to those of us who have been keeping you alive over the years.  And also in my awareness of all the forms healing can take I am disappointed that there will be no specific class, whose entire job lay in keeping others alive.  This was my bitter complaint from the beginning.  So thank you for 'biting'.  It was fun being on the other side for once and venting out my MMO frustration.

    Indeed, gladly depositing the goblin on your back onto others shoulders?!  You've not really argued your position except to say you are only passionate about extreme healers. I personally prefer the question to be broadened to healing < Support hence my support of GW2. Coincidently I never liked healers class (not the actual person oc) all the time between my "bows & thank you's" for the last rez. So you can well empathize that many people are pulling out the knives... image

  • MuridanMuridan Member Posts: 94

    Originally posted by dreamer05

    I played GW on launch day and loved it!  I always loved the PvP and the PvE, only slightly repugnant was the huge percentage of instancing.  I still really enjoyed the game.  Out of all the Holy Grail reasons I have heard to "love" GW2 there is only one I need to be completely adverse to it.  The lack of a healing class.  Now I'm quite practical and understand why a game might want to eliminate healing classes.  They are usually popular because they are needed and not really a class that people play because they enjoy it.... However,  I am one of those people who completely enjoy it, and I know I am very far from being alone.  There are many of us who realize how difficult it really is to be a truly great healer, and who get enjoyment out of it.  The fact that they decided to completely isolate this group of players is EXACTLY why I will not be playing, no matter how much everyone may worship it.

     Then GW2 is simply not the game for you. I think I speak for everyone that will be playing when I say you will not be missed, or rather the playstyle you soo covet wont be missed. I have grown soo tired of being held back from doing something in an MMO because I can't find a healer, or a tank, or because I need more dps. Beyond that I will also not miss the fun of being held hostage by a  healer or tank who threaten to take their ball and go home unless things are done exactly as they want them. Good riddance I say!

  • nomrawnomraw Member Posts: 146

     

    I'd really suggest this thread be closed. It's just never ending "I am right" spam fest here.  

    Gone are the days when people spoke constructively.

  • djazzydjazzy Member Posts: 3,578

    Sorry OP that you won't be playing. Perhaps you can look at the other support options before making a final decision though.

  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787

    Originally posted by nomraw

     

    I'd really suggest this thread be closed. It's just never ending "I am right" spam fest here.  

    Gone are the days when people spoke constructively.

    You have been here only a little longer than I, and I cannot recall what you speak of; well not on any sort of large scale. 

    Par for the course.

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • djazzydjazzy Member Posts: 3,578

    Originally posted by nomraw

     

    I'd really suggest this thread be closed. It's just never ending "I am right" spam fest here.  

    Gone are the days when people spoke constructively.

    Pretty much how every thread turns up though.

  • axylfyreaxylfyre Member Posts: 33

    Only reason that is needed. Magic.

  • HawkamaniaHawkamania Member Posts: 3

    A dedicated healer would be nice but its not a make or break. it shouldn't be for anyone. Who goes thru an MMO Strcitly as a healer for its entire existence?

    Anyway the only reason i ever had to not want to play GW2 would have been a subscription charge, But everyone knew before its announcement that that was never gonna happen so i have no reason to not play this big steaming pile of awesome.

  • mafia514mafia514 Member Posts: 148

    Water Elementalist is more of support then dealing damage ( hes first skil (Basic Attack) do heal allies)

    image

  • hellixirhellixir Member Posts: 12

    This exact reason that makes some people not wanting to try/play the game is the same one that make me really want to play it.

    I have been a mmo player for a long time and I am now really sick of the "holy trinity" involvment in gameplay/combat design. The principles that say that you NEED some kind of tank, some kind of healer and enough DPS to be able to kill a event is really well for PvE encounter and it really delivers some diversity, and deepness in game devellopement over the year. But one thing that is obvious for me for some years now is that the healers concept is flawed in a PvP environnement and create balance issue that are impossible to make the majority of people satisfied.

     

    Where do you draw the line of what is "healable" and when a healer or someone with 1-few healers one him should die. Having a class that can't die unless you have 3 ennemy characters damaging the hell out of it and interrupting/controlling it feels fucking absurd and nowhere near fun to play. And the opposite situation is as frustating as this one, let's say any healing class could die by just being unable to outheal the damage of a burst damage dealer.

    I would prefer having some classes that are balanced in a way that is coherent where personnal skills would be more important than just class capability for 1v1 and classes synergy in group vs group fights.

  • KrytycalKrytycal Member Posts: 520

    Originally posted by dreamer05

    Originally posted by romanator0


    Originally posted by dreamer05


    Originally posted by romanator0


    Originally posted by dreamer05


    Originally posted by romanator0

    Oh well. One man's trash is another man's treasure. While a few people will be turned off by the lack of healbots far more people are praising ArenaNet for doing it.

     


    Healbots is not the same as people who enjoy healing and far more jaded people will be praising the game once it is released.  That's the point, it seems amazing in your dorky little heads but once it's released it finds some way of always disappointing.  Oh I can't wait for this game, it will be the end all most amazingis game in the world!! Really?  Wasn't that what you said about the past 4 release games before you played them?

    If you're personally asking me if that is what I said about the past 4 games I played then no. However everything that has been said about GW2 and has been shown, has been shown to work exactly how it was said it would. I don't believe it to be the best thing ever, but I do expect it to be one of if not the funnest games I will ever play. If you don't like the game then don't play it. You also don't need to bash it either, you can just take the high road and ignore it. If you like being the healbot then you can stay in Rift.

     


    {mod edit}

    I don't see how I would wipe in GW2 because I pissed off a healer. You can't really piss off what isn't there. In GW2, if one person goes down the rest of the group fights on rather than being dependent on one person.

     

    And in theory that sounds just amazing doesn't it!  Just like in all developing games where everyone worships the "concept" of it all and it all sounds so perfect!  We will see how the people react to the launch of this game and how it works.  Until then you can't factually state how it does or will work.  And I wish it well because I was a fan of the original, but in my educated and experienced opinion it is quite niave to think you can eliminate class roles and still keep everyone happy, including my group of gamers who completely devote themselves to healing classes.

    I love the irony in this post.

     

    OP: You shouldn't worship a game's concept based on guesses or assumptions until you have at least tried it!

     

    OP: But based on my educated guess this game is going to suck because blah blah blah

  • XzenXzen Member UncommonPosts: 2,607

    This game does not have a holy trinity so complaining about the lack of a holy trinity healer is moot.

  • Hordequester8Hordequester8 Member Posts: 54

    Originally posted by sonoggi

    healbots are for noobs. they make every pvp encounter down right annoying. they make no sense conceptually. theres no such thing in any fantasy or sci fi setting as a character who perpetually fills up green bars

    There's also no concept that makes sense about people running around with a Red/Green bar that kills you when it empties out if you continue along that path of logic. I don't suppose you've ever went to a doctor at a hospital? Or saw an EMT respond to an emergency and help someone? No, that doesn't make any sense at all.

    Don't suppose you know anything about history..like the fact they brought Priests and Healers along with an army. The Priests' job was to keep spirits high, give last rights, and the like. The Healer's job was to patch up the troops and keep them going. They are giving you a visual, quantifiable realization of this concept.

    Although, if you search hard enough, you'll find historical records that show some armies or war parties would make sure all their soldiers knew basic first aid. Much like our soldiers today. This would be more like GW2.

     

    I see merit in both methods..but the OP is correct that it will obviously alienate some people. I also find it highly disrespectful that you would insult people that dedicate their time to keeping your weak butt alive by calling them Healbots. I suppose your family doctor is a Healbot also in that respect.

  • StydusStydus Member Posts: 50

    Originally posted by KamiKazeTG

    Originally posted by sonoggi

    healbots are for noobs. they make every pvp encounter down right annoying. they make no sense conceptually. theres no such thing in any fantasy or sci fi setting as a character who perpetually fills up green bars

    There's also no concept that makes sense about people running around with a Red/Green bar that kills you when it empties out if you continue along that path of logic. I don't suppose you've ever went to a doctor at a hospital? Or saw an EMT respond to an emergency and help someone? No, that doesn't make any sense at all.

    Don't suppose you know anything about history..like the fact they brought Priests and Healers along with an army. The Priests' job was to keep spirits high, give last rights, and the like. The Healer's job was to patch up the troops and keep them going. They are giving you a visual, quantifiable realization of this concept.

    Although, if you search hard enough, you'll find historical records that show some armies or war parties would make sure all their soldiers knew basic first aid. Much like our soldiers today. This would be more like GW2.

     

    I see merit in both methods..but the OP is correct that it will obviously alienate some people. I also find it highly disrespectful that you would insult people that dedicate their time to keeping your weak butt alive by calling them Healbots. I suppose your family doctor is a Healbot also in that respect.

    I really don't see how doctors and healers relate, unless after being damaged you had to be brought to some type of hospital and then surgery is done by a healer class.. honestly nothing alike. Healbot is a pretty common word associated with healers, even my friends who are good healers still refer to it this way, I don't see it being disrepectful, just a basic way of saying what healers do.

    Honestly though I can say that I love that they are getting rid of the holy trinity, and healer or not, I'd say the majority like this idea, yes even people who play healers. There may be a minority seeing this as a bad thing, but I think this is due to them no longer being a necessity and actually having to do more than just heal to be recognized and contribute to groups, I'd say this is an advancement because those options for healing are still there, you just have to actively participate in combat, I'd say that this would definitely create a more interesting, diverse, and fun experience overall. 

    Honestly the majority of healers I see complain seem to be upset that they can't pick a class that is always needed to fill a specific roll. Diversity is definitely superior.

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