I don't think it's a matter of hatred for indy studios. Honestly, I think most of us want them to succeed so they can bring fresh ideas to the MMO market. But the fact remains that money is being charged for a product and that product needs to justify the price tag. A game's potential for greatness should never, ever influence a review, only what it has currently achieved. Fortune telling is for previews, not reviews.
That being said, haven't the developers been pretty up front about the state of the game? I don't think they've been trying to pass it off as a finished product, so anyone that buys it right now should know that they are basically making an investment in the future. That sounds pretty reasonable. But then again, I've only heard things in passing and I may be wrong about that.
Either way, the review should focus on what is being delivered, not what might be delivered later. From the sounds of it, a low score is quite justified for an alpha stage game. I'm sure perennial powehouses like WoW and EVE would have scored likewise had their developers elected to release them to the public a couple of years early. At least we should be grateful that it's not being passed off as a finished product, unlike some other contemporary titles.
It was absolutely obvious that Xsyon in its present form would be a game that might have some nice ideas, but is years away from being a publishable/playable game.
But you should have seen those forum-vultures flame on me, when I dared to (carefully) address this problem.
Well, another game that'll die before ever really coming to life.
In general I think it is in a better state then DF was. The only huge difference and maybe it's doom is that there is no real purpose yet to the game like the reviewer said. It nice to build up your small community. Grind up your skills, but at the end fo the day there is no reason to do it then just to do it.
I gave it a try and came away very disappointed. There is so little content. I completely agree with the reviewer, the game is just pointless at the moment. It has potential, but not in the near future, it just lacks most of the things that make a game fun. The game reminds me of a puzzle palace, you can spend hours figuring out how to do one simple task. Combat is really dumb, it is basically an afterthought and looks the part.
Xsyon seems to me a lot like some combination of A Tale in the Desert and the first year of Eve Online. The combat currently sucks, and one assumes it will get better, but the tribal structure is cognate to the corp and player driven world/economy in Eve. Eve's first year had...rocky bits. Very few people remember them as being a few guys in Iceland that were so indy that their prospects seemed dim at best.
The difference between CCP or ATITD's eGenesis and Notorious Games is that both CCP and eGenesis have a level of community/dev openness nearly unmatched in the industry . Notorious seems to have it backwards -- the worse things are running, the quieter and less transparent they get.
This is my major worry on this game -- the player generated content could be ace if they'd develop a real sense of community with the dev process. If they don't grow some transparency, a lot of folks will not renew, even among the believers.
Xsyon seems to me a lot like some combination of A Tale in the Desert and the first year of Eve Online. The combat currently sucks, and one assumes it will get better, but the tribal structure is cognate to the corp and player driven world/economy in Eve. Eve's first year had...rocky bits. Very few people remember them as being a few guys in Iceland that were so indy that their prospects seemed dim at best.
The difference between CCP or ATITD's eGenesis and Notorious Games is that both CCP and eGenesis have a level of community/dev openness nearly unmatched in the industry . Notorious seems to have it backwards -- the worse things are running, the quieter and less transparent they get.
This is my major worry on this game -- the player generated content could be ace if they'd develop a real sense of community with the dev process. If they don't grow some transparency, a lot of folks will not renew, even among the believers.
Xsyon has a "lot of potential", but all of it is based on the proposed "Feature List". Sadly, none of that potential can be motivated by the design and implementation of the game as it currently stands.
The "Feature List" for Xsyon paints a picture of a vastly complex and interrelated game world, once all the features are implemented. But implementing that feature list with a tiny team will be the stuff of miracles. Very slow miracles, at that.
For the last year, Xsyon has been developed by 2 programmers. A 3rd programmer was recently hired (to work on combat), along with a "server expert" to deal with technical issues.
Essentially, Xsyon is the vision of one man. The problem is that the vision is somewhat fluid. He has stated that he would adapt the game design according to what the players want. A recipe for disaster, if ever I saw one.
At the moment, the "basic systems" are all implemented, sort of. That is the easy part. You can craft, fight and explore. There are no NPC's at all, and animals only appear after server resets. Once the few animals are all killed, none appear until the next server reset.
None of the complex interrelations actually work yet, because that is the hard stuff to do. The complex systems like animal respawns and resource respawns will be added later, during the coming 6-9 months. This period is known as the "Prelude", which to all intents and purposes is an open beta with paid subscription at standard MMO monthly rates.
Mortal Online has taken a year to reach the point where they are ready to add some content to their game, and they have a far larger development team than Xsyon. Or at least they had
I considered actually subscribing to the game even though I would probably not be playing it in the next 6 months, to help the devs to possibly deliver some of the "potential" in the design. But then I had a really hard look at the reality of the situation, and I came to the conclusion that the tiny dev team will not be able to deliver the complex design they are aspiring to.
I hope I'm wrong and Xsyon becomes the next "EVE" of indie games. The MMO community sorely needs it.
Note to the Reviewer:
Posting screenshots that contain content not currently in the game could be considered misleading by some readers !
I bought the game but quit after a month. I work 9-10 hours a day in RL and when I get home and log into this game, it feels like work again. To me, the bottom line is, it just isnt fun. I cancelled my sub. I turned to RIFT and now I am having fun again.
I think his score of the game is too high.
UO is a sandbox also and I really enjoyed it when I played.
Can people stop using stock screenshots for every article for this game, seeing as almost all the screenshot has something which isn't even implemented in the current version of the game... You can view the game positively or negatively, but those screenshots just bother me
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
Game is half done. But, its neat how the world changes as it gets closer to finished. Im impressed with the little details.
This game is played more for the experience over time and memories it helps create. Maybe boring for a week, then suck ass all day. then for an hour you have a better time than you had in the last 5 mmos you tried combined. You judge this game experience over weeks or months, instead of minutes and hours.
I cant even remember the last MMO i played besides DF. One of them clones. the memories made in this game will last a long long time.
Different kind of experience atm. equal value.
These unique games are the rarest of the rare. The chances of this kind of unique simulation game coming again in your gaming life are slim. If you are worried about some feature that you refuse to even try the game, In my opinion, a unique game experience is all we can demand. You're missing out on something that wont come again anytime soon. Your choice. Just offering another viewpoint. It's horrible that's the way it is.
Dont get me wrong, people looking for content to occupy their current game session, look anywhere else at all, not here.
This game is also incomplete. If you seek out an easy target for you low caliber trolls, well maybe this is the game for you. You could have a field day.
It is refreshing not being treated like you are 8 with the childish quests and shiny rewards. Being herded and manipulated on a predifined experience that ends in a numb sleepy feeling. But i finially got me magic boots of joy when i hit max level. An npc just gave em to me lol.
C,mon already. Xyson isnt much better, in fact it's not, but wtf are with the alternatives. Gettin ya some loot working for NPCs? Paying customer should be at least be equals to NPC's right? Probably should be sending NPC's out to quest for you instead. Sounds more like a hero and less like a slave to me.
Ill take crappy unfinished game i enjoy that offers a unique experience over the alternatives. Maybe I shouldnt but i dont care.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I play Xsyon, Lone wolf style and I can not find a single point to argue whit in this Review.
The building tools are great and its known this is just the start, whitin a few weeks we will see some very intresting things.
but combat is shit, we known it, reviewers know it and the developers know it. thats why they hired a developer just for a compleet combat redesign.
Due to the lack of combat or pve content there is little to do in the game, no trade,no combat, you build your home whit the tools we have now and then grind up some craft skills and well.sit around.
as the reviewer said , it got this nice post-it on it but it just aint there yet. In a few months the game will be a actual game, now its just a fun umm mess around thingy.
sounds like a interesting game. some of the review negatives are actually positives for me. but it does sound like the game needs some more work. think i may keep an eye on this one.
At least we should be grateful that it's not being passed off as a finished product, unlike some other contemporary titles.
Which indy MMO does pass off their game as complete anymore? Its quite the norm now to say "Oh, we aren't done!".
If the indy devs want the credit you're talking about, a trial a week or two after launch would be included.
Those comments were enough for me to make a decision not to buy it because I just wasn't interested in being an investor and paying tester rather than a player. No trial was necessary. The official statements were enough for me to make an informed decision. Clearly I made the correct one. Anyone else could have as well.
Really, I wish reviewers would start to understand what true sandbox really means.
Would that require reviewers understand what themeparks are as well?
They're neither MMO or RPG.
Game and toy cant be the same thing?
And I think the correct term atm would be incomplete PC 3d virtual simulation game. Game as in we compete in the simulation, but it's for fun. I bet Im wrong too huh?
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
But I always considered the Prelude to be building and not really anything more.
I played beta a few weeks before the first launch and within a week I had been more satisfied than I had been playing 60 dollar console games. I don't play that much now because I'm at the point where I'm ready for the new or turned on content, but I don't feel cheated or anything.
The game isn't finished, and they actually flat out said that it wasn't.
If you're on the fence right now, don't by the game until fall, when prelud is finished, or after there is a second review (or when the devs actually start PR). The only people that are getting the most of their money are the pre-order people that have bonus play time.
But hell...
If you're tired of paying 60 bucks and finding out you just paid for the 8th run-of-the-mill FPS, why not try something that's not run-of-the-mill?
As a fan of bashing Mr. Tingle for his occasionally naff review, I have to say after reading this one, I was indeed impressed. Not by Xsyon, but by the fact this is a review that simply tells it like it is.
Considering he's been hard at work playing this game solid for the past month or so, I think he's in a good position to make a comment on it. This time round, it's a fantastic review.
Only thing really missing is some commentary about the monthly fee, the state of the community and also how popular Xsyon really is..
I was gonna get this game but i'am glad i passed ultimatley.. It was hyped up for a few weeks, but after the failed launch it sort of just died down.. That's what made me pass.. The game is in alpha but they are trying to collect money from you already.. I learned my lesson after Mortal Online.. But ill check back in a year to see if all the features on the games website are actually implemented, because if they are then this game really will be a kick butt sandbox.
Currently Playing: Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
Comments
I don't think it's a matter of hatred for indy studios. Honestly, I think most of us want them to succeed so they can bring fresh ideas to the MMO market. But the fact remains that money is being charged for a product and that product needs to justify the price tag. A game's potential for greatness should never, ever influence a review, only what it has currently achieved. Fortune telling is for previews, not reviews.
That being said, haven't the developers been pretty up front about the state of the game? I don't think they've been trying to pass it off as a finished product, so anyone that buys it right now should know that they are basically making an investment in the future. That sounds pretty reasonable. But then again, I've only heard things in passing and I may be wrong about that.
Either way, the review should focus on what is being delivered, not what might be delivered later. From the sounds of it, a low score is quite justified for an alpha stage game. I'm sure perennial powehouses like WoW and EVE would have scored likewise had their developers elected to release them to the public a couple of years early. At least we should be grateful that it's not being passed off as a finished product, unlike some other contemporary titles.
Which indy MMO does pass off their game as complete anymore? Its quite the norm now to say "Oh, we aren't done!".
If the indy devs want the credit you're talking about, a trial a week or two after launch would be included.
In general I think it is in a better state then DF was. The only huge difference and maybe it's doom is that there is no real purpose yet to the game like the reviewer said. It nice to build up your small community. Grind up your skills, but at the end fo the day there is no reason to do it then just to do it.
I gave it a try and came away very disappointed. There is so little content. I completely agree with the reviewer, the game is just pointless at the moment. It has potential, but not in the near future, it just lacks most of the things that make a game fun. The game reminds me of a puzzle palace, you can spend hours figuring out how to do one simple task. Combat is really dumb, it is basically an afterthought and looks the part.
I'll give it another look when its got actual content instead of just potential.
+1 for giving me a refund thou.
"Is there an actual game here?" My thoughts exactly after "playing" for one month after release.
Playing Rift now, Xsyon killed my last hope for sandboxes...
"Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted.
Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world."
Hans Margolius
best cons ever
Xsyon seems to me a lot like some combination of A Tale in the Desert and the first year of Eve Online. The combat currently sucks, and one assumes it will get better, but the tribal structure is cognate to the corp and player driven world/economy in Eve. Eve's first year had...rocky bits. Very few people remember them as being a few guys in Iceland that were so indy that their prospects seemed dim at best.
The difference between CCP or ATITD's eGenesis and Notorious Games is that both CCP and eGenesis have a level of community/dev openness nearly unmatched in the industry . Notorious seems to have it backwards -- the worse things are running, the quieter and less transparent they get.
This is my major worry on this game -- the player generated content could be ace if they'd develop a real sense of community with the dev process. If they don't grow some transparency, a lot of folks will not renew, even among the believers.
This...this this this. (refer to my post made today...here: http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/6603-Question-for-Everyone
If they don't get back to pre-launch communication, what is left of the believer faction is going to disappear.
"Going Against The Grain Should Be A Way Of Life"
Agreed...
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
"Love can be innocent and can be sweet, but sometimes about as nice as rotting meat."
Xsyon has a "lot of potential", but all of it is based on the proposed "Feature List". Sadly, none of that potential can be motivated by the design and implementation of the game as it currently stands.
The "Feature List" for Xsyon paints a picture of a vastly complex and interrelated game world, once all the features are implemented. But implementing that feature list with a tiny team will be the stuff of miracles. Very slow miracles, at that.
For the last year, Xsyon has been developed by 2 programmers. A 3rd programmer was recently hired (to work on combat), along with a "server expert" to deal with technical issues.
Essentially, Xsyon is the vision of one man. The problem is that the vision is somewhat fluid. He has stated that he would adapt the game design according to what the players want. A recipe for disaster, if ever I saw one.
At the moment, the "basic systems" are all implemented, sort of. That is the easy part. You can craft, fight and explore. There are no NPC's at all, and animals only appear after server resets. Once the few animals are all killed, none appear until the next server reset.
None of the complex interrelations actually work yet, because that is the hard stuff to do. The complex systems like animal respawns and resource respawns will be added later, during the coming 6-9 months. This period is known as the "Prelude", which to all intents and purposes is an open beta with paid subscription at standard MMO monthly rates.
Mortal Online has taken a year to reach the point where they are ready to add some content to their game, and they have a far larger development team than Xsyon. Or at least they had
I considered actually subscribing to the game even though I would probably not be playing it in the next 6 months, to help the devs to possibly deliver some of the "potential" in the design. But then I had a really hard look at the reality of the situation, and I came to the conclusion that the tiny dev team will not be able to deliver the complex design they are aspiring to.
I hope I'm wrong and Xsyon becomes the next "EVE" of indie games. The MMO community sorely needs it.
Note to the Reviewer:
Posting screenshots that contain content not currently in the game could be considered misleading by some readers !
I bought the game but quit after a month. I work 9-10 hours a day in RL and when I get home and log into this game, it feels like work again. To me, the bottom line is, it just isnt fun. I cancelled my sub. I turned to RIFT and now I am having fun again.
I think his score of the game is too high.
UO is a sandbox also and I really enjoyed it when I played.
Open world PvP was all I needed to seel. No thank you. By BY!
Can people stop using stock screenshots for every article for this game, seeing as almost all the screenshot has something which isn't even implemented in the current version of the game... You can view the game positively or negatively, but those screenshots just bother me
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
A generous review.
Game is half done. But, its neat how the world changes as it gets closer to finished. Im impressed with the little details.
This game is played more for the experience over time and memories it helps create. Maybe boring for a week, then suck ass all day. then for an hour you have a better time than you had in the last 5 mmos you tried combined. You judge this game experience over weeks or months, instead of minutes and hours.
I cant even remember the last MMO i played besides DF. One of them clones. the memories made in this game will last a long long time.
Different kind of experience atm. equal value.
These unique games are the rarest of the rare. The chances of this kind of unique simulation game coming again in your gaming life are slim. If you are worried about some feature that you refuse to even try the game, In my opinion, a unique game experience is all we can demand. You're missing out on something that wont come again anytime soon. Your choice. Just offering another viewpoint. It's horrible that's the way it is.
Dont get me wrong, people looking for content to occupy their current game session, look anywhere else at all, not here.
This game is also incomplete. If you seek out an easy target for you low caliber trolls, well maybe this is the game for you. You could have a field day.
It is refreshing not being treated like you are 8 with the childish quests and shiny rewards. Being herded and manipulated on a predifined experience that ends in a numb sleepy feeling. But i finially got me magic boots of joy when i hit max level. An npc just gave em to me lol.
C,mon already. Xyson isnt much better, in fact it's not, but wtf are with the alternatives. Gettin ya some loot working for NPCs? Paying customer should be at least be equals to NPC's right? Probably should be sending NPC's out to quest for you instead. Sounds more like a hero and less like a slave to me.
Ill take crappy unfinished game i enjoy that offers a unique experience over the alternatives. Maybe I shouldnt but i dont care.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I play Xsyon, Lone wolf style and I can not find a single point to argue whit in this Review.
The building tools are great and its known this is just the start, whitin a few weeks we will see some very intresting things.
but combat is shit, we known it, reviewers know it and the developers know it. thats why they hired a developer just for a compleet combat redesign.
Due to the lack of combat or pve content there is little to do in the game, no trade,no combat, you build your home whit the tools we have now and then grind up some craft skills and well.sit around.
as the reviewer said , it got this nice post-it on it but it just aint there yet. In a few months the game will be a actual game, now its just a fun umm mess around thingy.
sounds like a interesting game. some of the review negatives are actually positives for me. but it does sound like the game needs some more work. think i may keep an eye on this one.
Xsyon isnt a 'game', no.
It's a toy.
Really, I wish reviewers would start to understand what true sandbox really means.
Notorious Games should Partner with Icarus Studios.
Those comments were enough for me to make a decision not to buy it because I just wasn't interested in being an investor and paying tester rather than a player. No trial was necessary. The official statements were enough for me to make an informed decision. Clearly I made the correct one. Anyone else could have as well.
Would that require reviewers understand what themeparks are as well?
They're neither MMO or RPG.
Game and toy cant be the same thing?
And I think the correct term atm would be incomplete PC 3d virtual simulation game. Game as in we compete in the simulation, but it's for fun. I bet Im wrong too huh?
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Pretty much.
Well everything is true in the review.
But I always considered the Prelude to be building and not really anything more.
I played beta a few weeks before the first launch and within a week I had been more satisfied than I had been playing 60 dollar console games. I don't play that much now because I'm at the point where I'm ready for the new or turned on content, but I don't feel cheated or anything.
The game isn't finished, and they actually flat out said that it wasn't.
If you're on the fence right now, don't by the game until fall, when prelud is finished, or after there is a second review (or when the devs actually start PR). The only people that are getting the most of their money are the pre-order people that have bonus play time.
But hell...
If you're tired of paying 60 bucks and finding out you just paid for the 8th run-of-the-mill FPS, why not try something that's not run-of-the-mill?
As a fan of bashing Mr. Tingle for his occasionally naff review, I have to say after reading this one, I was indeed impressed. Not by Xsyon, but by the fact this is a review that simply tells it like it is.
Considering he's been hard at work playing this game solid for the past month or so, I think he's in a good position to make a comment on it. This time round, it's a fantastic review.
Only thing really missing is some commentary about the monthly fee, the state of the community and also how popular Xsyon really is..
I was gonna get this game but i'am glad i passed ultimatley.. It was hyped up for a few weeks, but after the failed launch it sort of just died down.. That's what made me pass.. The game is in alpha but they are trying to collect money from you already.. I learned my lesson after Mortal Online.. But ill check back in a year to see if all the features on the games website are actually implemented, because if they are then this game really will be a kick butt sandbox.
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta