I find it interesting that after all this time we are having the exact same argument with many of the same people. I recently came back to Darkfall after a long break because I wanted to see if the grind reduction really made a big difference. Indeed, it does seem much faster to advance my character and the meditation system is a very welcome addition.
Did AV 'fix' the grind though? Absolutely not. Even after all their recent reductions, it STILL takes an insanely long time to advance a character to a level competitive with veterans. It still requires months and months of incredibly monotonous and repetitive tasks get all of the required skills and stats to where they need to be. I'm trying very very hard not to get bored and burnt out again because I want SO BADLY to experience the end-game PvP, but I fear I am still not going to make it. I have a long way to go before my clan suggests that I move to one of our holdings without being mercilessly ganked constantly. They say that I should stay near the NPC towns until I am more advanced, but it is quite simply just too boring during this point and there are too few people around me playing at a similar skill/stat level. It feels like a ghost town here and solo-hunting the same mob spawns for several more months while also attended macro-grinding spells just does not sound entertaining AT ALL.
Regardless of how much you love it, I think it is hard to disagree that the game should not be like this. It should be fun the entire way through. Newer players should NOT be required to endure such incredibly tedious and boring "game" play for so long just to reach the part of the game that we are all playing Darkfall to experience in the first place. It is just mind-boggling that AV apparently doesn't understand this...
Your clan sounds retarted dude. My clan is very noob friendly and we try to take them along to do everything we do. Your clan seems to subscribe to the template that you need such and such skills to compete, that is faultly logic. They probably just don't want to carry the burden of teaching you. My suggestion? Find a new clan.
Edit* It's not AV's fault your clan tells you to seclude yourself. It's the communities culture. They believe only maxed chars can compete and that you need to keep yourself hidden until ready. Don't be afraid to make mistakes or get ganked. It's all part of the fun and learning.
While the grind has been reduced and is still there, the OP obviously needs to go play Black Ops and leave not just DarkFall but all RPG's alone. If you're not comfortable with the fact that you can't get 100 in a skill and 100 in it's subskill (he was referencing Archery) in 3 DAYS then you aren't suited to play any kind of RPG, which inherently is tied to a "time invested = power" theme.
Im not a fan of WoW myself, however its a completely correct statement when I say for more people enjoy WoW than enjoy Darkfall, theres no arguing that.
WoW does have more numbers but you make a spurious correlation.
Sub numbers do not = quality product or game.
Now you are just arguing with yourself. I did not say sub numbers = quality, you did, I said "More people enjoy WoW than enjoy Darkfall.
You cannot argue my point because it is the truth.
You are losing the context of what you said. You compared sub numbers as 'speaking the truth' to the quality of a game. You were measuring a games quality by sub numbers. You inferred this in a prior post. Thus, I said you're making a spurious correlation by implying that sub numbers equate to quality product. Remember what you write dude.
wrong again sir, the inference was on your part. I said simply, and will do so again. "according to the subscription numbers, more people enjoy WoW than Darkfall."
I cannot get more plain than that. If you cant understand that, I dont know what to tell you.
again let me reiterate, Im not saying subs are a measure of quality.
However I will say if you spent less time trying to tell me what i was saying and actually read and comprehended what Im point blank trying to tell you in the simplest plainest words, we wouldnt be having this conversation.
It's a different argument saying that subs were high but decreased.
People buy bad products because they think they are good a lot. Again, you can't make the comparison that people buy a product because IT IS good. They buy it because they THINK it's good and going to get their money's worth.
But the subs in DarkFall were high for a good 6-9 months after Launch. Yes it lowered over time, but that wasn't because the game was necessarily bad (it was good), but because AV's handling of the game has just been mediocre. They've let AFK macro'ing go unpunished, they have not refunded players who have lost various things to hackers or AV-related issues, they've let exploits in for significant amount of time (They only finally fixed a bunch of mob exploit when CtS came out...which was in December, game had launched in February).
DarkFall was actually good at Launch. Clans joining with 30-50+ members, PvP everywhere constantly, epic large scale battles, etc. But the game became gradually worse as AVs were not addressing the issues, which has caused the population to dwindle down to it's current state. The product *was* good, people played it and loved it. Yes there were many issues, but players would've been able to wait a few months for AV to fix them, but only 2 years later does AV finally introduce changes to the Alignement System, and some Bank Changes so that Clans can decide if their banks are open to everyone or not. 2 years! 2 years and AV hasn't even introduced meaningful specialization yet, but they've introduced Fun Hulks. AV has been DarkFall's cancer, which in turn has made DarkFall into a bad game. The *core* DarkFall is fun, but AV are unable to work on it. EVE had the same issue at launch, the *core* was there but everything else was bad. Luckily, CCP managed to salvage it and turn it into a 350k+ subs game. But AV's not going to be able to do that, not in their ucrrent state.
Im not a fan of WoW myself, however its a completely correct statement when I say for more people enjoy WoW than enjoy Darkfall, theres no arguing that.
WoW does have more numbers but you make a spurious correlation.
Sub numbers do not = quality product or game.
Now you are just arguing with yourself. I did not say sub numbers = quality, you did, I said "More people enjoy WoW than enjoy Darkfall.
You cannot argue my point because it is the truth.
You are losing the context of what you said. You compared sub numbers as 'speaking the truth' to the quality of a game. You were measuring a games quality by sub numbers. You inferred this in a prior post. Thus, I said you're making a spurious correlation by implying that sub numbers equate to quality product. Remember what you write dude.
wrong again sir, the inference was on your part. I said simply, and will do so again. "according to the subscription numbers, more people enjoy WoW than Darkfall."
I cannot get more plain than that. If you cant understand that, I dont know what to tell you.
again let me reiterate, Im not saying subs are a measure of quality.
However I will say if you spent less time trying to tell me what i was saying and actually read and comprehended what Im point blank trying to tell you in the simplest plainest words, we wouldnt be having this conversation.
Ok, well here we go. I'll repost what you said.
Arken: I would imagine being at everyone elses mercy while trying to attain the aforementioned fun is something most people dont care for.
Xan: So you say we can't make sweeping generalizations about how this is the best game on the market for PvP yet you're allowed to say most people don't care for this type of leveling system? Hm. Two way streets are fun, aren't they!
Arcken: Darkfalls absymal sub numbers speak to the truth of my statement, no matter how much it galls you.
You were stating that DF's sub number speak the truth that no one likes to level up the way DF does, aka play the game. I'm exactly right. Even Realbigdeal, under me interpreted what you said that way. Stop trying to escape what you said and leave this forum. You obviously can't even follow your logic so why should anyone believe what you say about other things considering you're current track record with remembering what you said a few posts ago. Your memory regarding DF must be, as you say: "abysmal".
Well theres no arguing with someone who only sees what they want, so I guess you win.
either way, if grinding was the only problem darkfall had, it would probably have more than 7k in subs.
AV released their sub numbers? Link.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Well theres no arguing with someone who only sees what they want, so I guess you win.
either way, if grinding was the only problem darkfall had, it would probably have more than 7k in subs.
You might be able to argue better with people in the WoW forums. :] Haha had to take that swipe.
Anyway, I think the reason it has so little subs was due to the bad launch and generally huge hype it had. It was bound to let down lots of people and then losing in this game is really losing. Sometimes people do not want to work back to what they had. The taste of granduer and power is too much, so when they lose, they stay away. There's a very large cultural mindset in DF about losing. I do not think it's AV's fault, rather I don't think they expected the community to grow into what it is now.
Well theres no arguing with someone who only sees what they want, so I guess you win.
either way, if grinding was the only problem darkfall had, it would probably have more than 7k in subs.
AV released their sub numbers? Link.
The new data is mostly based off Active Clan player numbers since inactive clans are being removed. It totals up to around 7k subs I think.
I see, thanks.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Still play for beta really, they don't advertise or even want the masses to be aware of Darkfall atm, grind issues, alignment system issues, new player experience, lack of classes or specalisation, bad animations and character models.
AV are aware of that, it's all going to be fixed before or within the relaunch and then we'll truely see how well Darkfall does after launch.
I understand that it is difficult to configure your controls and get used to it at first but it is worth it. Contact anyone who actually plays the game and I am sure that they will show you some pointers with using macros not to AFK grind (its not needed anymore at all) but to help setup your controls. Its not needed but definitely helps make it my favorite game.
i find it funny how you support scripts, but not macroing or am i reading something wrong?
and what i highlighed is just as correct saying it before meditation was added, you dont need to macro but it helps and you avoid many boring hours depending on how far you wanna go...
now that meditations here they still self buffs, debuff's, begone, stormblast, telekeniss, launch, confusion, come hither and depending on how far you wanna go theys many more
and non damgedeing spells only lvls 2x faster on mobs then players while damgeding spells
You are reading something wrong. I am only talking about scripts to help someone without a gaming keyboard and I am not talking about needing to have a max-level character because that is not needed. You dont need buffs, debuffs, begone, stormblast, telekenisis, launch, confusion, or any of these things leveled to 100 . ... actually I would have at least 50 begone though but thats all you need to do just fine in combat and win. Getting any spell to 75+ is pretty damn easy and can be done without macroing in a week or two without grinding as long as you remember to cast it occasionally. It is a little more difficult with buffs but I have never died and said to myself, "Gee I died because I didnt have enough buffs or my buffs aren't 100 yet and they had too many surging spells." . .. nah when I die I only tell myself, "Damn it I messed up. How did I mess up?" and I always see the mistake I made and it has nothing to do with the crap that a lot of new people are told.
Originally posted by Arcken
Originally posted by Majinash
Originally posted by Sid_Vicious
Planetside will not stir your emotions like Darkfall will.
You obviously never played Planetside when it was new.
Or ever admitted someone else might be right on some level.
I love FPS games. I can even play the same one for months or years even. They are becoming funner and funner. The graphics, UI, etc. is so superior to Darkfall and other MMORPGs. The action can be non-stop and thrilling and is so much more instantly satisfying than Darkfall will ever be with a hell of a lot better graphics along with everything else which is pretty much top-notch. If you die in one of those games it doesn't matter though. You simply respawn and try again.
None of these games will ever have an adrenaline rush like Darkfall does unless I were to lose 20$ every time that I die or something like that. It doesn't take a fcking rocket scientist to figure out that watching sports or playing sports is not as thrilling as when you bet a large sum of money on it . ...
In Darkfall when you go to some big siege to assist in whatever, you usually will rage and log out after you die just one time.
Originally posted by Arcken
Well theres no arguing with someone who only sees what they want, so I guess you win.
either way, if grinding was the only problem darkfall had, it would probably have more than 7k in subs.
Yeah . .. and most people do not gamble with high stakes and hang out with the slot machines. Go figure.
7k subs is actually pretty decent. They have even been able to hire a larger team to continue providing more content.
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I understand that it is difficult to configure your controls and get used to it at first but it is worth it. Contact anyone who actually plays the game and I am sure that they will show you some pointers with using macros not to AFK grind (its not needed anymore at all) but to help setup your controls. Its not needed but definitely helps make it my favorite game.
i find it funny how you support scripts, but not macroing or am i reading something wrong?
and what i highlighed is just as correct saying it before meditation was added, you dont need to macro but it helps and you avoid many boring hours depending on how far you wanna go...
now that meditations here they still self buffs, debuff's, begone, stormblast, telekeniss, launch, confusion, come hither and depending on how far you wanna go theys many more
and non damgedeing spells only lvls 2x faster on mobs then players while damgeding spells
You are reading something wrong. I am only talking about scripts to help someone without a gaming keyboard and I am not talking about needing to have a max-level character because that is not needed. You dont need buffs, debuffs, begone, stormblast, telekenisis, launch, confusion, or any of these things leveled to 100 . ... actually I would have at least 50 begone though but thats all you need to do just fine in combat and win. Getting any spell to 75+ is pretty damn easy and can be done without macroing in a week or two without grinding as long as you remember to cast it occasionally. It is a little more difficult with buffs but I have never died and said to myself, "Gee I died because I didnt have enough buffs or my buffs aren't 100 yet and they had too many surging spells." . .. nah when I die I only tell myself, "Damn it I messed up. How did I mess up?" and I always see the mistake I made and it has nothing to do with the crap that a lot of new people are told.
okay i never said you needed a max character either, for self buffs, around 37 elemental buff adds 2.2 protection a 75 + one adds around 3.5 or more protection
for instance with infernal helm it adds 3,46 elemental protection while a plate helm adds 3,03 elemental protection, and even getting your selbuffs up to 37 takes a long time without macroing it..
for debuffs, its 2x gains on mobs meaing if you wanna lvl em its better to just do it on players to avoid travel times, less danger and no misses.
debuffs arent gonna win you a fight but they help a lot in 1 vs 1 (or 2 vs 1) fights that are long where you both pretty much equally machted, in a fight where either 1 off you just destroys the other their wont matter.
telekeniss and launch are boring spells to lvl to, but their need at least 50 + else their terible to climb a wall with or some other place you need to go over, its not the best idea to spend your stormblast or bubble going over a wall when your expecting a fight right away...
you dont need the 100 lvl everything because everythings good at 75 + skill, but if you have a lot off stuff under lvl 75 its gonna cost you a lot fights, but at least, debuffs, begone, telekeniss, launch are okay at 50 +
well I could go on but you lose either damgede or other stuff with not having it at 75 +, and it all just adds up to you haveing terrible chances, this isen't wow where we do 5000 damgede pr hits, where working with small numbers so it all adds up in the end...
im not saying you can't play this game without macroing but it still has huge benefits in it and saves you a lot of boring grind to do, and almost all off darkfalls population does it...
any spell to 75+ is pretty damn easy,
well true, but depending how you wanna play theirs a lot of spells that makes it not easy, and macroing can be done for many spells very safe
Whatsoever fanboi saying here (I used to be one too, and I still am a little bit DFO fanboi), the majority here all agrees that DFO definately has too much grind. DFO has potential yes, but as it stand now it is just a peedrop in the Atlantic ocean, a midget. Or barely that.
People also keep talking about some "relaunch" of DFO... HELLO?? Game has been out for over 2 years, and it's "development" is so slow I would consider anything from FunCom's MMO's like going at lightspeed compared to what DFO offers.
The whole game will soon be outdated, long before Aventurine is able to do some "relaunch". (BTW; where does this imaginary "relaunch" even come from??) I played DFO more than enough, on 3 accounts, to say that it is hardcore yes, but the hardcore "part" is 99% about being able to withstand the monotonic & ever repeating grind day in & day out. And this is even WITH doing macros. Labeling DFO for the "hardcore PvP players" is just wrong; I would label it quite different as it definately doesn't attract ANY harcore PvP'er I know of in real life.
To be able to cope with the insane grind in DFO, you need to have extraordinary fetisch for this game AS WELL as being incredibly outerworldly patient. I have only 50% of this.
The funny thing is that whenever people complain about the grind and they reduce it I end up having to grind more because the bar is raised for what is considered average . ...
Whatever effort is worth it though in my book.
3 days of hardcore grinding archery is something that I would never ever do. This is why I am still playing and having fun and you are not.
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The whole game will soon be outdated, long before Aventurine is able to do some "relaunch". (BTW; where does this imaginary "relaunch" even come from??) I
Relaunch is something Tasos has mentionned a few times. It's basically as if DarkFall had returned to BETA and AV were to relaunch it (a bit like Square Enix is currently doing with FFXIV). The relaunch is scheduled to be around the same time as "DarkFall Arena", previously known as DarkFall 2010, and it is after the relaunch that Aventurine plans to advertise the game once again.
The whole game will soon be outdated, long before Aventurine is able to do some "relaunch". (BTW; where does this imaginary "relaunch" even come from??) I
Relaunch is something Tasos has mentionned a few times. It's basically as if DarkFall had returned to BETA and AV were to relaunch it (a bit like Square Enix is currently doing with FFXIV). The relaunch is scheduled to be around the same time as "DarkFall Arena", previously known as DarkFall 2010, and it is after the relaunch that Aventurine plans to advertise the game once again.
The whole concept seems a bit imbecilic to me. Its not as if you can erase the bad first impression. We gamers are unforgiving.
Especially when new games are constantly coming out. Why would anyone go back to the old stock when it already burned its bridge?
The whole game will soon be outdated, long before Aventurine is able to do some "relaunch". (BTW; where does this imaginary "relaunch" even come from??) I
Relaunch is something Tasos has mentionned a few times. It's basically as if DarkFall had returned to BETA and AV were to relaunch it (a bit like Square Enix is currently doing with FFXIV). The relaunch is scheduled to be around the same time as "DarkFall Arena", previously known as DarkFall 2010, and it is after the relaunch that Aventurine plans to advertise the game once again.
The whole concept seems a bit imbecilic to me. Its not as if you can erase the bad first impression. We gamers are unforgiving.
Especially when new games are constantly coming out. Why would anyone go back to the old stock when it already burned its bridge?
You may feel Darkfall has had it chance, shown too many flaws for the majority amongst negative thoughts for the game but this relaunch is merely the beginning for Darkfall. AV has played their cards right so far, they knew from the very start of the offical launch that the game was in no condition for the masses. AV has been performing a great strategical plan for the past two years, testing the game, polishing the game compared to what it was, creating more for the game and getting masses and masses of feedback to work on. AV's small following has allowed them to pay off the loans taken to develop the game previously, move into a new office, purchase a motion capture studio and greatly expand the team.
Darkfall 2010 was delayed for a great reason, they've decided with the expansion coming this year (revamping the entire game) that Darkfall will be ready for the masses and a serious contender within the MMO market.
I fear many of the current population might not like all the things to come however, it's fairly certain that they intend to make a noobs life much safer and easier but the game was never supposed to be what it is today.
Gamers may not be forgiving but so little gamers have even heard of Darkfall, out of all the gamers only those who have been actively searching for a conquest type sandbox have heard of it. None of my many gaming friends knew Darkfall existed until I told them I played it, so many more will be exposed to it after the relaunch.
The whole game will soon be outdated, long before Aventurine is able to do some "relaunch". (BTW; where does this imaginary "relaunch" even come from??) I
Relaunch is something Tasos has mentionned a few times. It's basically as if DarkFall had returned to BETA and AV were to relaunch it (a bit like Square Enix is currently doing with FFXIV). The relaunch is scheduled to be around the same time as "DarkFall Arena", previously known as DarkFall 2010, and it is after the relaunch that Aventurine plans to advertise the game once again.
The whole concept seems a bit imbecilic to me. Its not as if you can erase the bad first impression. We gamers are unforgiving.
Especially when new games are constantly coming out. Why would anyone go back to the old stock when it already burned its bridge?
Provided that the developer team is willing to listen to their other share of the playerbase, it *is* possible to regain the "lost" players. This is something that has been quite obvious since the UO days. After Trammel and the following expansions messed the game, lots of players turned to Free Shards to continue to live the experience. They still liked the game, they just hated the decisions the developers made. Had EA created a server with the previous ruleset (pre-Trammel), players would've continued to play on the official server.
So in that regard, I don't think it's true that players are "that" unforgiving. It's up to the developers to take the right decision and offer a different option that will appeal to that ex-playerbase, often in the form of a different server with different ruleset, which will be supported by it's players.
One of the most recent exemple was RIFT during Beta 6. Trion had made some changes to PvP (mainly anti-griefing and some changes regarding town control or something like that), while the PvE crowd rejoiced, the PvP crowd were furious. For that reason, Trion decided to revert the ruleset of the PvP server in Beta 7 and explained that if players decide to play on the PvP server, then they accept that they will face more "challenges" in the form of PvP. The change was well-received by the PvP crowd and has even increased the player's trust in the company.
Developers can rebuild the bridge, they just need to listen a bit more and admit it when they've made a mistake and make the necessary changes. It's a foreign concept for most developing studios, but it's a concept worth following.
Whatsoever fanboi saying here (I used to be one too, and I still am a little bit DFO fanboi), the majority here all agrees that DFO definately has too much grind. DFO has potential yes
I woulden't say darkfall has to much grind, its more the failed system off getting everything to 75 + under thats most stuff is just terible and hardly worth useing if you have something else at 75 +.
they should just look into the changes in all skills and make em more rewearding at 25 +
then again they still have to do something for self buffs lvlings, buff others, debuffs, and utility spells because most people need em, but they horbily boring to lvl without macroing
The whole game will soon be outdated, long before Aventurine is able to do some "relaunch". (BTW; where does this imaginary "relaunch" even come from??) I
Relaunch is something Tasos has mentionned a few times. It's basically as if DarkFall had returned to BETA and AV were to relaunch it (a bit like Square Enix is currently doing with FFXIV). The relaunch is scheduled to be around the same time as "DarkFall Arena", previously known as DarkFall 2010, and it is after the relaunch that Aventurine plans to advertise the game once again.
The whole concept seems a bit imbecilic to me. Its not as if you can erase the bad first impression. We gamers are unforgiving.
Especially when new games are constantly coming out. Why would anyone go back to the old stock when it already burned its bridge?
Because not many casual gamers know of DF. Only the few that go onto these forums and even then, not many since DF isn't constantly talked about. There are large groups of people that know nothing of this game. And some people really liked DF, so with a re-release they will at the minimum check it out to see what changed. Some will stay, some will not but you will see an increase in sub numbers. DF has a very large following even to this day. People are always returning to the game.
The whole game will soon be outdated, long before Aventurine is able to do some "relaunch". (BTW; where does this imaginary "relaunch" even come from??) I
Relaunch is something Tasos has mentionned a few times. It's basically as if DarkFall had returned to BETA and AV were to relaunch it (a bit like Square Enix is currently doing with FFXIV). The relaunch is scheduled to be around the same time as "DarkFall Arena", previously known as DarkFall 2010, and it is after the relaunch that Aventurine plans to advertise the game once again.
The whole concept seems a bit imbecilic to me. Its not as if you can erase the bad first impression. We gamers are unforgiving.
Especially when new games are constantly coming out. Why would anyone go back to the old stock when it already burned its bridge?
Because not many casual gamers know of DF. Only the few that go onto these forums and even then, not many since DF isn't constantly talked about. There are large groups of people that know nothing of this game. And some people really liked DF, so with a re-release they will at the minimum check it out to see what changed. Some will stay, some will not but you will see an increase in sub numbers. DF has a very large following even to this day. People are always returning to the game.
poeple return to darkfall because there is nothing other to play..
Besides the fact when i was playing games like warhammer. These games became dull and boring after playing darkfall
poeple return to darkfall because there is nothing other to play..
Besides the fact when i was playing games like warhammer. These games became dull and boring after playing darkfall
WArning to all players: there is no return :P
This is something I have to agree with. Since I played DarkFall, there are very few tab-targetting games that I can still continue to play without getting bored (there's only 2). Others become quite boring compared to more action-oriented MMOs like DarkFall. That being said, there's a bunch of action-oriented MMORPGs on their way, so we'll see.
Yeah . .. and most people do not gamble with high stakes and hang out with the slot machines. Go figure.
7k subs is actually pretty decent. They have even been able to hire a larger team to continue providing more content.
First statement:... wha?
Second statement: no, 7k subs is terrible. MMOs don't stay alive with 7k subs. Earth & Beyond died, completely, with 30k subs. Auto Assult, Tabula Rasa, these games died because they had too few subs. To say that 7k is pretty decent... what are you comparing it to? There are Private servers for MMOs with more subs than that.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Comments
Your clan sounds retarted dude. My clan is very noob friendly and we try to take them along to do everything we do. Your clan seems to subscribe to the template that you need such and such skills to compete, that is faultly logic. They probably just don't want to carry the burden of teaching you. My suggestion? Find a new clan.
Edit* It's not AV's fault your clan tells you to seclude yourself. It's the communities culture. They believe only maxed chars can compete and that you need to keep yourself hidden until ready. Don't be afraid to make mistakes or get ganked. It's all part of the fun and learning.
While the grind has been reduced and is still there, the OP obviously needs to go play Black Ops and leave not just DarkFall but all RPG's alone. If you're not comfortable with the fact that you can't get 100 in a skill and 100 in it's subskill (he was referencing Archery) in 3 DAYS then you aren't suited to play any kind of RPG, which inherently is tied to a "time invested = power" theme.
wrong again sir, the inference was on your part. I said simply, and will do so again. "according to the subscription numbers, more people enjoy WoW than Darkfall."
I cannot get more plain than that. If you cant understand that, I dont know what to tell you.
again let me reiterate, Im not saying subs are a measure of quality.
However I will say if you spent less time trying to tell me what i was saying and actually read and comprehended what Im point blank trying to tell you in the simplest plainest words, we wouldnt be having this conversation.
But the subs in DarkFall were high for a good 6-9 months after Launch. Yes it lowered over time, but that wasn't because the game was necessarily bad (it was good), but because AV's handling of the game has just been mediocre. They've let AFK macro'ing go unpunished, they have not refunded players who have lost various things to hackers or AV-related issues, they've let exploits in for significant amount of time (They only finally fixed a bunch of mob exploit when CtS came out...which was in December, game had launched in February).
DarkFall was actually good at Launch. Clans joining with 30-50+ members, PvP everywhere constantly, epic large scale battles, etc. But the game became gradually worse as AVs were not addressing the issues, which has caused the population to dwindle down to it's current state. The product *was* good, people played it and loved it. Yes there were many issues, but players would've been able to wait a few months for AV to fix them, but only 2 years later does AV finally introduce changes to the Alignement System, and some Bank Changes so that Clans can decide if their banks are open to everyone or not. 2 years! 2 years and AV hasn't even introduced meaningful specialization yet, but they've introduced Fun Hulks. AV has been DarkFall's cancer, which in turn has made DarkFall into a bad game. The *core* DarkFall is fun, but AV are unable to work on it. EVE had the same issue at launch, the *core* was there but everything else was bad. Luckily, CCP managed to salvage it and turn it into a 350k+ subs game. But AV's not going to be able to do that, not in their ucrrent state.
Ok, well here we go. I'll repost what you said.
Arken: I would imagine being at everyone elses mercy while trying to attain the aforementioned fun is something most people dont care for.
Xan: So you say we can't make sweeping generalizations about how this is the best game on the market for PvP yet you're allowed to say most people don't care for this type of leveling system? Hm. Two way streets are fun, aren't they!
Arcken: Darkfalls absymal sub numbers speak to the truth of my statement, no matter how much it galls you.
You were stating that DF's sub number speak the truth that no one likes to level up the way DF does, aka play the game. I'm exactly right. Even Realbigdeal, under me interpreted what you said that way. Stop trying to escape what you said and leave this forum. You obviously can't even follow your logic so why should anyone believe what you say about other things considering you're current track record with remembering what you said a few posts ago. Your memory regarding DF must be, as you say: "abysmal".
Well theres no arguing with someone who only sees what they want, so I guess you win.
either way, if grinding was the only problem darkfall had, it would probably have more than 7k in subs.
AV released their sub numbers? Link.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
You might be able to argue better with people in the WoW forums. :] Haha had to take that swipe.
Anyway, I think the reason it has so little subs was due to the bad launch and generally huge hype it had. It was bound to let down lots of people and then losing in this game is really losing. Sometimes people do not want to work back to what they had. The taste of granduer and power is too much, so when they lose, they stay away. There's a very large cultural mindset in DF about losing. I do not think it's AV's fault, rather I don't think they expected the community to grow into what it is now.
The new data is mostly based off Active Clan player numbers since inactive clans are being removed. It totals up to around 7k subs I think.
indeed.
I see, thanks.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Darkfall has so few subs for obvious reasons;
Still play for beta really, they don't advertise or even want the masses to be aware of Darkfall atm, grind issues, alignment system issues, new player experience, lack of classes or specalisation, bad animations and character models.
AV are aware of that, it's all going to be fixed before or within the relaunch and then we'll truely see how well Darkfall does after launch.
You are reading something wrong. I am only talking about scripts to help someone without a gaming keyboard and I am not talking about needing to have a max-level character because that is not needed. You dont need buffs, debuffs, begone, stormblast, telekenisis, launch, confusion, or any of these things leveled to 100 . ... actually I would have at least 50 begone though but thats all you need to do just fine in combat and win. Getting any spell to 75+ is pretty damn easy and can be done without macroing in a week or two without grinding as long as you remember to cast it occasionally. It is a little more difficult with buffs but I have never died and said to myself, "Gee I died because I didnt have enough buffs or my buffs aren't 100 yet and they had too many surging spells." . .. nah when I die I only tell myself, "Damn it I messed up. How did I mess up?" and I always see the mistake I made and it has nothing to do with the crap that a lot of new people are told.
I love FPS games. I can even play the same one for months or years even. They are becoming funner and funner. The graphics, UI, etc. is so superior to Darkfall and other MMORPGs. The action can be non-stop and thrilling and is so much more instantly satisfying than Darkfall will ever be with a hell of a lot better graphics along with everything else which is pretty much top-notch. If you die in one of those games it doesn't matter though. You simply respawn and try again.
None of these games will ever have an adrenaline rush like Darkfall does unless I were to lose 20$ every time that I die or something like that. It doesn't take a fcking rocket scientist to figure out that watching sports or playing sports is not as thrilling as when you bet a large sum of money on it . ...
In Darkfall when you go to some big siege to assist in whatever, you usually will rage and log out after you die just one time.
Yeah . .. and most people do not gamble with high stakes and hang out with the slot machines. Go figure.
7k subs is actually pretty decent. They have even been able to hire a larger team to continue providing more content.
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okay i never said you needed a max character either, for self buffs, around 37 elemental buff adds 2.2 protection a 75 + one adds around 3.5 or more protection
for instance with infernal helm it adds 3,46 elemental protection while a plate helm adds 3,03 elemental protection, and even getting your selbuffs up to 37 takes a long time without macroing it..
for debuffs, its 2x gains on mobs meaing if you wanna lvl em its better to just do it on players to avoid travel times, less danger and no misses.
debuffs arent gonna win you a fight but they help a lot in 1 vs 1 (or 2 vs 1) fights that are long where you both pretty much equally machted, in a fight where either 1 off you just destroys the other their wont matter.
telekeniss and launch are boring spells to lvl to, but their need at least 50 + else their terible to climb a wall with or some other place you need to go over, its not the best idea to spend your stormblast or bubble going over a wall when your expecting a fight right away...
you dont need the 100 lvl everything because everythings good at 75 + skill, but if you have a lot off stuff under lvl 75 its gonna cost you a lot fights, but at least, debuffs, begone, telekeniss, launch are okay at 50 +
well I could go on but you lose either damgede or other stuff with not having it at 75 +, and it all just adds up to you haveing terrible chances, this isen't wow where we do 5000 damgede pr hits, where working with small numbers so it all adds up in the end...
im not saying you can't play this game without macroing but it still has huge benefits in it and saves you a lot of boring grind to do, and almost all off darkfalls population does it...
any spell to 75+ is pretty damn easy,
well true, but depending how you wanna play theirs a lot of spells that makes it not easy, and macroing can be done for many spells very safe
Whatsoever fanboi saying here (I used to be one too, and I still am a little bit DFO fanboi), the majority here all agrees that DFO definately has too much grind. DFO has potential yes, but as it stand now it is just a peedrop in the Atlantic ocean, a midget. Or barely that.
People also keep talking about some "relaunch" of DFO... HELLO?? Game has been out for over 2 years, and it's "development" is so slow I would consider anything from FunCom's MMO's like going at lightspeed compared to what DFO offers.
The whole game will soon be outdated, long before Aventurine is able to do some "relaunch". (BTW; where does this imaginary "relaunch" even come from??) I played DFO more than enough, on 3 accounts, to say that it is hardcore yes, but the hardcore "part" is 99% about being able to withstand the monotonic & ever repeating grind day in & day out. And this is even WITH doing macros. Labeling DFO for the "hardcore PvP players" is just wrong; I would label it quite different as it definately doesn't attract ANY harcore PvP'er I know of in real life.
To be able to cope with the insane grind in DFO, you need to have extraordinary fetisch for this game AS WELL as being incredibly outerworldly patient. I have only 50% of this.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
The funny thing is that whenever people complain about the grind and they reduce it I end up having to grind more because the bar is raised for what is considered average . ...
Whatever effort is worth it though in my book.
3 days of hardcore grinding archery is something that I would never ever do. This is why I am still playing and having fun and you are not.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Relaunch is something Tasos has mentionned a few times. It's basically as if DarkFall had returned to BETA and AV were to relaunch it (a bit like Square Enix is currently doing with FFXIV). The relaunch is scheduled to be around the same time as "DarkFall Arena", previously known as DarkFall 2010, and it is after the relaunch that Aventurine plans to advertise the game once again.
The whole concept seems a bit imbecilic to me. Its not as if you can erase the bad first impression. We gamers are unforgiving.
Especially when new games are constantly coming out. Why would anyone go back to the old stock when it already burned its bridge?
You may feel Darkfall has had it chance, shown too many flaws for the majority amongst negative thoughts for the game but this relaunch is merely the beginning for Darkfall. AV has played their cards right so far, they knew from the very start of the offical launch that the game was in no condition for the masses. AV has been performing a great strategical plan for the past two years, testing the game, polishing the game compared to what it was, creating more for the game and getting masses and masses of feedback to work on. AV's small following has allowed them to pay off the loans taken to develop the game previously, move into a new office, purchase a motion capture studio and greatly expand the team.
Darkfall 2010 was delayed for a great reason, they've decided with the expansion coming this year (revamping the entire game) that Darkfall will be ready for the masses and a serious contender within the MMO market.
I fear many of the current population might not like all the things to come however, it's fairly certain that they intend to make a noobs life much safer and easier but the game was never supposed to be what it is today.
Gamers may not be forgiving but so little gamers have even heard of Darkfall, out of all the gamers only those who have been actively searching for a conquest type sandbox have heard of it. None of my many gaming friends knew Darkfall existed until I told them I played it, so many more will be exposed to it after the relaunch.
Provided that the developer team is willing to listen to their other share of the playerbase, it *is* possible to regain the "lost" players. This is something that has been quite obvious since the UO days. After Trammel and the following expansions messed the game, lots of players turned to Free Shards to continue to live the experience. They still liked the game, they just hated the decisions the developers made. Had EA created a server with the previous ruleset (pre-Trammel), players would've continued to play on the official server.
So in that regard, I don't think it's true that players are "that" unforgiving. It's up to the developers to take the right decision and offer a different option that will appeal to that ex-playerbase, often in the form of a different server with different ruleset, which will be supported by it's players.
One of the most recent exemple was RIFT during Beta 6. Trion had made some changes to PvP (mainly anti-griefing and some changes regarding town control or something like that), while the PvE crowd rejoiced, the PvP crowd were furious. For that reason, Trion decided to revert the ruleset of the PvP server in Beta 7 and explained that if players decide to play on the PvP server, then they accept that they will face more "challenges" in the form of PvP. The change was well-received by the PvP crowd and has even increased the player's trust in the company.
Developers can rebuild the bridge, they just need to listen a bit more and admit it when they've made a mistake and make the necessary changes. It's a foreign concept for most developing studios, but it's a concept worth following.
I woulden't say darkfall has to much grind, its more the failed system off getting everything to 75 + under thats most stuff is just terible and hardly worth useing if you have something else at 75 +.
they should just look into the changes in all skills and make em more rewearding at 25 +
then again they still have to do something for self buffs lvlings, buff others, debuffs, and utility spells because most people need em, but they horbily boring to lvl without macroing
Because not many casual gamers know of DF. Only the few that go onto these forums and even then, not many since DF isn't constantly talked about. There are large groups of people that know nothing of this game. And some people really liked DF, so with a re-release they will at the minimum check it out to see what changed. Some will stay, some will not but you will see an increase in sub numbers. DF has a very large following even to this day. People are always returning to the game.
poeple return to darkfall because there is nothing other to play..
Besides the fact when i was playing games like warhammer. These games became dull and boring after playing darkfall
WArning to all players: there is no return :P
This is something I have to agree with. Since I played DarkFall, there are very few tab-targetting games that I can still continue to play without getting bored (there's only 2). Others become quite boring compared to more action-oriented MMOs like DarkFall. That being said, there's a bunch of action-oriented MMORPGs on their way, so we'll see.
First statement:... wha?
Second statement: no, 7k subs is terrible. MMOs don't stay alive with 7k subs. Earth & Beyond died, completely, with 30k subs. Auto Assult, Tabula Rasa, these games died because they had too few subs. To say that 7k is pretty decent... what are you comparing it to? There are Private servers for MMOs with more subs than that.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.