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Why Roleplay?
Palebane
Member RarePosts: 4,011
I know one of these pop up once a month or more, but there are several threads dealing with the subject right now, so I decided to reply to one. Then it got really big and I couldn't decide which one to put it in, so here it is.
Why roleplay?
I have never been a huge role-player and mostly not by choice. I think most developers have left role-playing solely in the hands of players. Some developer teams may create tools like emotes or music or whatever, but there aren't really any human goals to attain in most online games these days. There aren't any Dungeon Masters or great leaders on most servers asking players to do certain things. The developers or GMs sometimes hold events for the players that are online at that time. They can spawn creatures and hand out special loot, but as far as giving players direction and perspective they are completely absent apart from the content they create. Most GMs just handle customer service these days and that’s it. And while there certainly are some creative players that find their own fun ways of doing things, I haven’t met any great active role-playing guilds or players in years. Perhaps I wouldn’t even recognize great role-playing if it jumped out and bit me, but I know, as a player, I am always looking for something or someone to inspire me, or to get me to want to do things just because I can, or because it's the right thing to do.
I want to hook up with the mayor's son to go into the dungeon and rescue some precious jewels from a pack of goblins. And I don't want to read about it in a quest log. I want a real person to ask me to do that, and for a reason. Not just some XP or currency, but because it's expected of me; Because it's fun; Because the whole time, I'm being led by a real person who can change the environment to suit whatever tale he/she is concocting. They can make the weather bright and sunny or stormy and spooky. They can have a pack of wolves attack us on our way. I'll probably never experience the same thing again in this game the same way, and that's fine. That's the way it should be. I know that sounds impossible, maybe even dull to some people. But if done well, I think it would be a big step toward the pen and paper roots of the role-playing genre. I know a lot of players think that role-players are an insignificant fragment of the current player-base, but role-players started this genre, and there's a reason that these games have held such a fascination for them over the years. It was an alternate reality, like being an actor in a movie or a soldier in a platoon.
Do the games really have to lose that just for the sake of convenience? Is it safe to say most people don't want to or don't have time to play these games as a form of alternate reality? 30 min chunks on average. Maybe an all-nighter on the weekends. Does this inhibit the more social and human aspects of a role playing game? Or is it just that the majority of the current player-base does not allow it? If you aren't constantly in combat then the game is boring for many, many players. If you aren’t grinding, you are wasting time and time is money. And the developers are trying to appease these players, as it should be in any successful enterprise. But what if the developers were somehow able to show these players that these games can be so much more than just combat? If I could get them into my imagination, let me puppet the world around them like a good movie director, perhaps they would come around.
It's impossible to blame anyone for why the games have become all action and no story. Even games like the new star wars which is supposed to have a huge story element will not be able to offer anything that Mass Effect cannot in terms of human content. Yeah, you can help your buddy choose what to say back to the computer or fight alongside or against them in combat, but why? What for? Because you want to get more experience points and higher statistics? I'm sure that's what The Witcher was after when he was killing zombies in the sewer, or on your way out of the Vault for the first time in Fallout 3. Forget that, I don’t want to play as The Witcher or the vault dweller, I want to BE them. For many players, myself included, all of these games have a great story, otherwise I would not love and play them as much as I do. But when I’m online, interacting with other human beings, I expect much, much more. Not just from them, but from the people I pay to play the game.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Comments
i am a roleplayer and it seems that today a lot of people feel the need to talk bout it...
i feel ya bro wish more people RP as long as they dont have the anoying brakets
I think you pretty much answered your own question... most people don't want to roleplay in the acting sense
They don't mind filling roles like healer or tank or support... but to actually act or respond based on your race / class as a requirement seems to be pointless.
I tried RP a bit and it wasn't for me... aside from the fact that no game actually incorporates RP into its design, there is little to no interest in most games.. you are hard pressed to find others to RP with and it's too much of a hassle most of the time.
Most mmo's are over-glorified chat rooms imo and few people actually desire to fully immerse themselves.
It can be satisfying to take out a troll in pvp though ^^
Yeah, I think maybe they do and they just don't know it. I don't expect my thread to change their mind though. "Then why post it at all?" you may ask. Mostly as a personal excercise in essay, lol. Maybe if I'm lucky a current or future developer or roleplayer will think of something I have not. I know it's pure egotism that I could inspire someone else to change things, but I would be a hypocrite not to try, hehe.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
The genre has changed. No longer are the majority of players old P&P players. No longer is 200k subs the number of success. The RP part of MMORPG does not have the meaning it once did. Times change and with the success of WoW so did MMORPG's.
I would never say you can't or shouldn't try to RP. It is all up to you. Just don't expect developers to cater to you. You are the minority. In the end there is not enough of you for them to take notice. They throw you a bone by calling a few servers RP servers.
It reminds me of the whole sandbox discussion that happens on these forums all of the time. If there was money in catering to the sandbox crowd we would have tons of AAA sandbox games. Sadly there is not enough of us around to make an impact. At least not a WoW type of impact.
The majority of players want what they have now and that is the deciding factor on how games will be developed until something happens to change that. Sadly I dont see anything changing for a very long time.
I appreciate your honesty, however I don't believe there is an us and them. We are all part of the same community. We all have a lot to learn from each other.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I truly do not understand RP, I must be missing something, unless you are RP'ing a guy sat at his computer. Now books I can get lost in, but RP, is something I will never understand.
Chins
Thats a nice thought. Really it is.(im not saying that to be a dick either) However there is a division. Since there are limited dollars for the development of any game we have differences in how we believe that money should be spent. We also have differences on how we believe servers should be monitored.
Persoanlly I just dont see wasting money by paying devs to make people change their names because someone doesn't believe it fits in to their version of what the game world should be like. I just dont believe that money should be spent so the few can have their immersion. I'm sorry but I would much rather see real issues dealt with. It is just my opinion though. I am not saying that my points are any more valid than yours are. Our priorities are just different thats all.
I am one of those that thinks that if you play an MMO or any story based game or any game that involves "creatures" be the human or non-human, that you are role playing. The difference is in degree. The reason people claim they do not role play is because they do not understand anything about role playing or have pre-concieved notions about role play.
Anyway, as an example of the above... If you play say CoD multiplayer in a team deathmatch...you are roleplaying a soldier of whatever nationality. If you play STO as a Klingon Bird of Prey captain.....you are role playing a Klingon Bird of Prey captain. If you play Darkfall as a Dwarf and all you do is hunt other players....you are playing a hunter Dwarf. The only thing that may vary in any of these examples is the degree to which you do it. You may just go about your business to accomplish whatever you do in any of those games. OR, you might act totally out of your personal personality to win the objective you seek. For example, in CoD, not many people that play that game are proffessional soldiers or mercenaries or what have you. So, you take that role. You can do it with you normal personality but you are still playing something your are not. Therefore, you are role playing.
So in any of the games like those, everyone is a roleplayer.....and it is only a matter of degree.
Let's party like it is 1863!
The thing I truly can't get past is not telling ppl I'm having a beer while watching X on tv. I find it odd not to tell people that if they ask. I simply do not get RP.
Chins
I'd definitly try a mmo if they incorporated a RP theme into its design..
but I'm not sure how RP would be incorporated into a game w/o just becoming the standard factory line of quest dialogues most games incorporate.
I know there are AI systems out there being researched atm like cleverbot or what have you.. but to actually code a game with an intelligent response system would be an incredible challenge and require some innovative coding.
innovative usually means expensive
I think it could work.. but it would be a huge risk of money for a type of game play most players have little interest in.
If somebody could make a prototype model and showcase it .. they might be able to buzz up interest...
Do i think RP is/can be a legitimate form of gameplay sure..
I just don't think our AI research has reached the point where it is viable atm.
I dont want to RP, however, when I play a game I want to feel immersed and I don't want some L33t kid ruining that immersion.
All about motivation and hygiene factors I guess.
To quote Wikipedia:
Two-factor theory distinguishes between:
Motivators (e.g., challenging work, recognition, responsibility) that give positive satisfaction, arising from intrinsic conditions of the job itself, such as recognition, achievement, or personal growth,[4] and
Hygiene factors (e.g. status, job security, salary, fringe benefits, work conditions) that do not give positive satisfaction, though dissatisfaction results from their absence. These are extrinsic to the work itself, and include aspects such as company policies, supervisory practices, or wages/salary.
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76)
Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
I beleive the main reason mmorpgs changed to a style that makes roleplaying harder.
There are many factors and details in games that makes this so.
Games are exposing the numbers and techinalities of the gameplay more and more, and many players love to figure out the most efficient build the most efficient chain of spells and so on. This moves the focus away from the roleplaying aspects.
Games are increasingly designed for shorter play periods, again just meeting our demands - But as anyone who roleplayed pen-n-paper knows, it is a long session that really makes you "live" you character.... Interruptions are just bad for roleplaying as you can't loose yourself and be another person.
Games are not creating worlds but pods/instances/tiers of gameplay designed for your pleasure, which constantly makes it obvious for a player that it is a game they play - And hence have a harder time to get lost in the adventure and their character. Also the simplification of games in general makes it hard to beleive in the uniqueness of your character when you see half the world look like you or have the same gear as you, have the same spells and use them the same way, fight one of the 3 ways (designed by developers).
It is just hard to beleive that your character is a unique person out on adventure with these things in your face constantly.
Gamers are no longer pen-n-paper roleplayers who was intrigued by the possibilities of a virtual world to roleplay in, but without so much work as a real good pen-n-paper experience is. They are now a broader crowd who maybe saw lord of the rings movies, but are not experienced in the fine art of escaping reality hehe.
I met a few roleplayers in WoW, but all I was able to like was conversations mostly about the origin of someones character - Actual action as a roleplayer was hard to beleive in that world. In Eq I met some roleplayers in the early days, but with Eq also changing and players playing for years, the roleplaying also started to become less. I was never a hardcore roleplayer in games because it felt wierd, but more like light roleplay such as speaking like an Ogre would, praising virtue and rightousness as a paladin or discussing death with a a necromancer.
Anyway, for me the closet roleplaying experience I had in a game was in Baldurs Gate 2, partly because the characters in the world made you want to act as your character would (good, evil, chaotic, etc) .. Although simplified it worked well. In a mmorpg there are some limitations I have a hard time linking with hardcore roleplaying .. such as if I kill Guard Jenkins he will repop in 15 minutes and his vife Josephine Jenkins doesn't raise an eyebrow when I sell to her after. Also the constant e-blahblah in chats is a constant reminder that it is just a game with real people.
I see only one way to make roleplaying work for real in a mmorp and that is, besides the game must support a roleplaying experience (are there any left?), forced roleplaying in a form that works.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
and hence, because Role Playing and Sandbox gamers are the minority see how all the themepark MMORPGs have been doing extremely well in the last 7 years!
*cough* *cough*
Just to enrich the topic. I have to admit I've experience more immersion and role playing, playing non RPG games than playing RPG or MMORPG games.
For instance Read Dead Redemption pulls me inside the world and I really feel being there and Role Playing can easily be met. To me RDR is more of an RPG than Dragon Age 2. Speaking of Dragon Age 2 it is far from a Role Playing Game. I was more involved in Portal 2 story and characters than I was in Dragon Age 2. In Dragon Age 2 I felt I was doing errands/fetch games. "Go here", "Do that", "Kill This"... same old Quest Driven Crap. All the dialogues and decisions make no difference and I am on rails. That's also true for Portal 2 but Portal 2 is a Puzzle Game. However, I really felt the game and I was far more immersed playing Portal 2 than Dragon Age 2 or any MMORPG like WoW or Rift.
We got sick of focusing on what to do, being hand held. No tools in the game to justifiy being in the world. There are no worlds, it's just a giant rail road of fetch quests with some pixels and XP/Money thrown at you whenever you fetch that mushroom or kill these 10 foozles.
It's not about Role Playing as much as it is about the game approch of playing the game for you. You're never free to roam, you are always told what to do and you are always looking at your character in 3rd person. The game mechanics are always the same there's nothing shockingly new. Night is never dark, just a different shade of color. Friendly NPCs are always friendly and your actions most of the time means nothing. You play the same game for 7 years now. Same Auction House, Same Itemization, Same Quest System, Same Challenge Feeling. You'd hope at least the monsters become more difficult or act differently. The monsters HP/Dmg ratio is exactly the same for you in WoW and in Rift you feel like playing the same game but with different graphic engine.
It's sad when non RPG games have a lot more Role Playing feeling to them than these shallow and stupid "RPGs" and "MMORPGs" we see.
Well there are different ways to roleplay and it depends on how you look at roleplaying. I didnot play MMOs until about 4 years ago so I never really had RL RP interaction. I always had just had console solo RPG but my cousin used to get mad at me because she could not even get my attention away when I was in my character in my games lol. She'd say man you're nuts you get into those so deep you don't even hear people around you when they are talking to you.
However then there is the in-depth RPing in which my daughter gets into and she has been begging me to do it for forever. Wouldn't you know it I finally make a toon on an RP realm on EQ2 and then the bomb of not getting to play til things are fixed happen LOL. Antoniabayle on EQ2 is known for very in-depth roleplaying and having very good community as well as they are known for being mature people. I think when I finally get to play with the people I met on that server I am going to have a lot of fun. I have actually visited with them on occassion and they seem very nice.
So I am going to try it out as soon as EQ2 is back up. Hope it is soon lol. I feel lost atm. I bought FF XI because I was going to play it while EQ2 was down and I can't even play it because I can't use my card due to my bank not carrying or supporting a certain thing on my bank card for security porposes that it requires lol. Kind of ironic can't play one because someone might have slipped up on being thorough enough on security and can't play the other due to a ton of security.
However the way I look at RPing is it depends on how you look at it on what it truly is. I mean I can sit by myself get on a game and play my character for hours on end feeling like I am that character totally following every bit of that story or I can do RPing with friends in a different way. And when I say I solo RP on consoles I am talking about making noises for my characters and everything rofl. So like I said I think it depends on your perception of what RPing truly is.
Hmmmm wasn't playing house when I was a kid RPing? I do believe it would be classed as so. However it is going to be a different thing for me to follow exact stipulations of RPing on an actual RP realm not used to that at all. My daughter gets into a full length thing at times but yes not only do people seem to not have a lot of time but it is not only hard to get people on for RPing it is getting harder to get people on for MMOing period that are dependable or that can be on for any length of time to get done what you hipe to do.
I have found that in the PvE part of MMOing that people nowadays are just very undependable period. Tell you they will be there and never show up when they say they will. Then come back and act like nothing ever happened or that there was nothing wrong with commiting themselves to something adn not showing up for it. Then if you do actually say something they get down right snotty about it even though it is theur fault that this conversation is going on to begin with.
So just so you kow it is not just in the RP world that no one seems to have any time anymore to do squat.
And then again I have met a ton of raiders on EQ2 that have gone totally to RPing and no raiding at all. So there is still a community on EQ2 for RPing if you have never tried it.
That is not entirely true, we are not the minority, considering when you log onto an RP server the majority is RPers, and those realms can actually almost be practically full, including on WoW. Heck, I'll log onto the Antonia Bayle server on Everquest II and when I go into looking for guild and I looked through it for every four RP guilds there's one or two raiding guilds. Therefore you cannot say us RPers are the minority, there's just as many of us as there are of normal players.
I agree fully. I played Minecraft per request of my little cousin and I got sucked in simply because I enjoyed it because I was able to pretend I was actually the character building his home from scratch that needed to hide from monsters by night and dig and gather by day. I was playing alone and I was having more fun than I had had in a high end great graphics game, which like you said, is sad.
And even if you're not getting the quests from other players, games like Never Winter Nights I and II had the RP feeling down to an art. You could choose your path, your reputation effected how others treated you, heck, your choices made your reputation good or bad. And even with NPC's, if you made the wrong decision to them, you lose your influence with them. In these MMORPG's there either x faction or x faction, you can't just pick from a list of races and make your reputation based on choices you make in game.
In WoW, you can't kill SW guards to make yourself hated by SW or other players, instead you're stuck doing the same boring routine every day, liked by every SW NPC. Now I know you have to grind faction with Darnassus and all that, but it's pointless, you get nothing out of it except a mount. And even then, who says you want that rep? Why can't you grind faction with the Orcs for the Wolf mount? Oh wait, you're Alliance, there's no way that your RP character could have any disagreements with things they're doing in SW and instead agree with the Trolls or Orcs in decisions, they're just perfect and can't have their own mind.
That was the biggest mistake I've seen in MMORPG's, they didn't make it so you can make your own choices in the lines of whether you're good or evil, or despite not being x race you can still side with x races faction. To me an RP is based on your decisions as the character, not yourself. I mean, sure you can make a character based on yourself, but even you yourself could have disagreements with your faction, right?
I mean, on WoW, I enjoyed all the races as a whole, I didn't like having to choose either Horde or Alliance, or even if I did choose, I couldn't betray my Troll Druid over to Alliance. I mean, I know it's "Warcraft" not "Lovecraft", but even in war you have traiters who will betray to the other side based on their principles and beliefs, am I mistaken in that?
Can we see on the other side? No, but can the other side see us? Maybe, maybe not, guess we won't find out until we're supposed to.
IMO, roleplay, the kind described by the OP, can only be done with ALL parts are played by human beings.
NO NPC's.
You cannot roleplay with a computer script.
Roleplay is about action and.....................................REACTION! Tht's what makes the world come alive, that's what feels like you're creating a story, not just reading one.
Computer script cannot react. It just acts like it was programmed.
Roleplay is like a play you see at the theater, with no script. The "actors" (players) and the Game Master, make it up as they go along.
Now imagine that instead of another person playing the other actor, you're trying to do a play with a chair.
Not really the same thing is it?
YOU can still act, but the chair is just going to be a chair. And that's a computer scripted NPC. No better than a chair.
Add in some friends in your group. You can all act your parts on the good or bad side of the conflict, and then the other side is still a chair.
Dungeons and Dragons was supposted to release an Online game where you got a virtual dungeon the Dungeon Master could control, and you played with VOIP.
I don't think it ever got released though.
I hear what you are saying. It seems that for every feature of an online role-playing game, there is a proverbial fence with players on each side. To believe otherwise would be naive. But instead of wishing developers would spend money and resources on one or the other, why not persuade them develop both to each sides' standards? It's not impossible. To me it would be the start toward viewing those on the opposite side of the fense as allies, not enemies.
We both want to see the industry and the quality of the games advance. I'm not convinced that there is any other way to do that except to stand united on every feature, despite our personal prefrences one way or the other. Don't you think the more action-oriented players would have a more solid experience if they were able to interact with other players, and the develoers, dynamically at nearly every turn? I know, as more of a social-type player, that I would have more fun if I knew my actions or ideas in the game contributed to the more combat-oriented aspects of the game as a whole.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I liked going out in the forest with my toy machine gun and pretending I was a Cylon lost on planet earth and fending for his life If I did that stuff now, they'd have me committed. Every now and then I come across an MMO where I feel the urge to give my character a persona and play it out.
In a few minuters, I'm going to head to the kitchen to get a coffee and, just as I did a half hour ago, I will pretend I am a lone soldier crossing enemy lines to steal Das Boost - the revitalizing hot drink recently created by the evil Dr Folger to power his formidable army. Maybe that's also reason to have me committed, but I find it fun to do now and then.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Lol, I still have stuff like that going on in my head too. I guess I've always had a vivid imagination. That's also one of the reason I love a good role-playing game regardless of whether it's single or multi-player. It just seems like it's been such a long time since a multiplayer was able to pull me in as they used to. Maybe I've just been spoiled by teh great single-player RPGs out there. I guess it's jsut the interaction I crave when playign multiplayer. Things have sped up so much, it's hard to get a word in unless you like talking on the phone (VOIP).
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Hahah, you two aren't alone there.
That's kind of why I wind up sticking to forum RP's, because it's simple and I get interaction and RP, but once in a while I like to actually see my character doing the stuff instead of just picturing it.
I remember when my cousin and I would sit down to play Spyro and we just to just sit and run around a cleared world pretending that we were sisters traveling together to save the dragon world.
And still, I can sit down and play a single player and get that enjoyed feeling, but still not get quite satisfied because there isn't someone there with me to feel it as well. 
Can we see on the other side? No, but can the other side see us? Maybe, maybe not, guess we won't find out until we're supposed to.