I've always been intrigued by the concept of evasion tanking. Unfortunately no one has gotten it right yet, as hitpoints and armor and being able to "soak" damage have trumped this idea. Here's to hoping we'll get an engaging and fun tank class that can competently MT.
Not sure if anyone else mentioned this yet as I don't have time to read all the replies, but...
The rogue tanks in RIFT are amazing evasion tanks. Really done well fom top to bottom.
No godless person can comprehend those minute distinctions in doctrine that provide true believers excuse for mayhem. -Glen Cook
Am I the only one put off by the whole notion of classes in Star Wars "tanking"? I mean how does that fit the lore? I know this has probably been rehashed a lot but I still can't help but get that sick feeling in my stomach that at the end of the day I'm going to be really disappointed in this game's mechanics and it will feel like WoW in space with voice-overs.
So when Jedi are blocking blaster fire from droids back into their faces killing them. Which causes the droids to focus fire on them becasue they are being killed. That isn't a form of tanking?
You are thinking of a tank and spank, hack and slash type of tank from WoW. In SW, force powers and lightsabers are very powerful defensive weapons as well as offensive. So it makes pleanty of sence to have a defensive tree for force users with blocking, evasion, force aoe, force shields and force push type of CC. It can work fine and fit the lore.
I think you are kind of missing the point the poster was trying to make. Altho instead of the use of WoW kind of skewed what they wanted to say.
I think what they are talking about is the general MMO design of... you pull a mob the tank holds aggro and everyone else has this place to be.
While was it EP2 where all the Jedi show up to save anakin etc and daddy Fett dies... If you think of that scene there wasn't a tank that pulled the aggro of all the bad guys. Healers standing back and melee dps looking for positionals...
Its more like a standard dark ages battle ground where that are a bunch of small battles going on within a much larger battle.
I could be wrong about what they were trying to say too. This is something that kind of concerns me with the information that has been released. I see the effort made to create the worlds and build on the standard MMO principals along with BioWares distinct flavor of story telling. What I don't see is where the player is going to actually feel like they are in "Star Wars" as opposed to a MMO and yes to me those are two different things. Star Wars + MMO should = something a bit different than the standard class setup we are used to.
Just my opinion obviously.
*edit* lol
Ooops as to the original topic.
Why does everyone automaticly assume that the Sith Inquis would be an evasion tank?
I realized its not common but Heretics (tank spec) and Valewalkers in DAoC were not really evasion based. They had self buffs that gave them aborption of heavier armors. In fact Heretics in cloth armor if spec'd right in DAoC had higher abs then heavy tanks... with no need for a buffbot.
You were correct, I'm concerned with it feeling too static and cardboard 1 tank 3 dps 1 heal set-up that has been the cornerstone of games since 2004. It doesnt "feel" right in Star Wars especially with the healing but even some with 'tanking' in its traditional sense.
I'm hopeful about the game, but concerned that I've been anticipating yet another WoW-clone with Star Wars characters and nice voice-overs. When I get to the end game it better not be daily grinds, sitting in queues for thirty minutes at a time because all the heal/tank specs are rare (IE less fun) or waiting for X battleground. That's all I'm saying. It better have something more dynamic and engaging like DAOC had or something entirely new than gated content and "gear sets". If I hear the term "gear set" again I think I'm going to puke.
Rift made me vomit the moment I approached 50th level.
Thirty years of gaming experience...not sure if I should be proud of that www.mmoexaminer.blogspot.com
LOL. That "assassin" must be really good at what he does. I mean wearing 10 layers of giant armor that glows in the dark must make you really hard to detect.
World of Warcraft is the original creation of God. Real Life is in fact a WoW clone.
That class video looks very cool Almost made me want to roll a Sith inq. But when watching the comments on their website, I realised that 4 out of 5 players probably roll a Sith. Not to mention that Jedi/Sith roleplaying is as cheesy as it comes, and I hate cheesy RP and their cheesy Darth something something names
So Ill probably stick to some brawler type of class like Smuggler
That class video looks very cool Almost made me want to roll a Sith inq. But when watching the comments on their website, I realised that 4 out of 5 players probably roll a Sith. Not to mention that Jedi/Sith roleplaying is as cheesy as it comes, and I hate cheesy RP and their cheesy Darth something something names
So Ill probably stick to some brawler type of class like Smuggler
They said somewhere that "Darth" (and 'Master", which is far more cheesy :P) will be a title reward and that it wont be just for anyone: you can complete the entire storyline and not unlocking it. And Darth, Master, etc., wont be tolerated as parts of player names either. So that should limit them somewhat.
p.s. I was afraid of faction imbalance as well but there is a poll with around 25k votes on the Swtor forums showing pretty evened out faction balance.
Best evasion tank I've ever played was a 220 Opifex Shade in Anarchy Online. If this game pulls it off as well as AO did with shade, this class will rock
My god has horns.... nah, I don't think he is real either.
If Remo had been wearing the superginormous Inquisitor pauldrons he could have just deflected the bullets back at that guy. Oh who am I kidding, he could have just used them to knock the guy out from up to three counties away. Sheesh. Ruby Rod had better fashion sense.
"the Sith Inquisitor just honestly seems to have something for everyone."
So Wow Deathknight then?
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
That class video looks very cool Almost made me want to roll a Sith inq. But when watching the comments on their website, I realised that 4 out of 5 players probably roll a Sith. Not to mention that Jedi/Sith roleplaying is as cheesy as it comes, and I hate cheesy RP and their cheesy Darth something something names
So Ill probably stick to some brawler type of class like Smuggler
They said somewhere that "Darth" (and 'Master", which is far more cheesy :P) will be a title reward and that it wont be just for anyone: you can complete the entire storyline and not unlocking it. And Darth, Master, etc., wont be tolerated as parts of player names either. So that should limit them somewhat.
p.s. I was afraid of faction imbalance as well but there is a poll with around 25k votes on the Swtor forums showing pretty evened out faction balance.
I wonder if those titles are mutually excluisve? Because the name "Darth Master" would be pretty epic.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Am I the only one put off by the whole notion of classes in Star Wars "tanking"? I mean how does that fit the lore? I know this has probably been rehashed a lot but I still can't help but get that sick feeling in my stomach that at the end of the day I'm going to be really disappointed in this game's mechanics and it will feel like WoW in space with voice-overs.
So when Jedi are blocking blaster fire from droids back into their faces killing them. Which causes the droids to focus fire on them becasue they are being killed. That isn't a form of tanking?
You are thinking of a tank and spank, hack and slash type of tank from WoW. In SW, force powers and lightsabers are very powerful defensive weapons as well as offensive. So it makes pleanty of sence to have a defensive tree for force users with blocking, evasion, force aoe, force shields and force push type of CC. It can work fine and fit the lore.
I think you are kind of missing the point the poster was trying to make. Altho instead of the use of WoW kind of skewed what they wanted to say.
I think what they are talking about is the general MMO design of... you pull a mob the tank holds aggro and everyone else has this place to be.
While was it EP2 where all the Jedi show up to save anakin etc and daddy Fett dies... If you think of that scene there wasn't a tank that pulled the aggro of all the bad guys. Healers standing back and melee dps looking for positionals...
There wasn't "a tank", there were lots of tanks considering they were all jedi so there was no need for someone to take all the agro and later in the movie, you see Jedi "tanking" droids while the clone troopers shoot behind them. So the tanking fits perfectly with the star wars theme.
I think this class being more of a hybrid of sorts will have its draw backs in the form of armor they can or cant wear and other such things. I for one am looking forward to playing one since it seems that they are a cross between a castor and mele which fits me just fine.
I've always been intrigued by the concept of evasion tanking. Unfortunately no one has gotten it right yet, as hitpoints and armor and being able to "soak" damage have trumped this idea. Here's to hoping we'll get an engaging and fun tank class that can competently MT.
City of Heroes did it great with Super Reflex scrappers. I played one with Dark mele which was great for debuffing accuracy making myself harder to hit.
There were times a elite boss would wipe everyone, and there I was still standing because he missed me!
Evasion tanking is fun because of that random factor.
this was the class that immediately got my attention the first time i heard about the game. i was really hoping for a cc/moderate ranged dps class along the lines of a LOTRO loremaster minus the pets and with faster action.
what's being presented here looks like some weird hybrid and i'm not sure how it will play out .. i know that mike whatever from gamebreaker.tv was going on about the sith marauder stomping everything i'm afraid this game will take too many queues from WoW and be heavily melee focused ;/
i haven't had a chance to watch the trailer since i'm stuck at work and the video is blocked ...
Currently Playing: Perpetuum MMOs Played (most time spent to least): World of Warcraft (BG/Open world PvP focused), Lord of the Rings Online (PvMP focused), Warhammer Online (BG PvP focused), Global Agenda, Age of Conan, DC Universe Online (PvP focused), Runes of Magic, Allods, Aion, Fallen Earth
Originally posted by AndyMilorhmm to say the truth, I'm kinda afraid of the power this class will have..I mean when you can choose a DPS, a Healer, and a tank in the same class... well why don't you just mix them for the most perfect PVP "creature" you have ever seen? :P loland also, I'm kinda afraid of it because the huge diffrence between the inquisitor and the conslour, I mean IDK, they should be basclly the same in fightning, but from the info released on the counclor, it's looks like it's just doesn't going to be the same, like the insq is for everything, and the cons is mainly for healing, and maybe a bit DPS'ing
Yes and the WoW shaman could do all of those things at one point, and none of them very good..at least at one time. Jack-of-all-trades master of none is the most likely scenario for this class if it isnt balanced properly.
yes, exactly, i had a 70 shaman in BC and it was horrible, optimal specs kept changing resetting gear grind .. nightmarish. i ditched that pve character at the time and went to a pvp mage on a low pop pvp server on the 3 to 1 outnumbered side, far better.
i'm afraid that this will suffer the same fate of a hybrid that will be 2nd or 3rd class for whichever role and that the 'pure' class will get picked first to do anything and most importantly will make it suck in pvp ;/
Currently Playing: Perpetuum MMOs Played (most time spent to least): World of Warcraft (BG/Open world PvP focused), Lord of the Rings Online (PvMP focused), Warhammer Online (BG PvP focused), Global Agenda, Age of Conan, DC Universe Online (PvP focused), Runes of Magic, Allods, Aion, Fallen Earth
Originally posted by AndyMilorhmm to say the truth, I'm kinda afraid of the power this class will have..I mean when you can choose a DPS, a Healer, and a tank in the same class... well why don't you just mix them for the most perfect PVP "creature" you have ever seen? :P loland also, I'm kinda afraid of it because the huge diffrence between the inquisitor and the conslour, I mean IDK, they should be basclly the same in fightning, but from the info released on the counclor, it's looks like it's just doesn't going to be the same, like the insq is for everything, and the cons is mainly for healing, and maybe a bit DPS'ing
Yes and the WoW shaman could do all of those things at one point, and none of them very good..at least at one time. Jack-of-all-trades master of none is the most likely scenario for this class if it isnt balanced properly.
yes, exactly, i had a 70 shaman in BC and it was horrible, optimal specs kept changing resetting gear grind .. nightmarish. i ditched that pve character at the time and went to a pvp mage on a low pop pvp server on the 3 to 1 outnumbered side, far better.
i'm afraid that this will suffer the same fate of a hybrid that will be 2nd or 3rd class for whichever role and that the 'pure' class will get picked first to do anything and most importantly will make it suck in pvp ;/
That's my fear. I'm torn between sith lord and inquisitor-
Thirty years of gaming experience...not sure if I should be proud of that www.mmoexaminer.blogspot.com
I really want an apprentice for either sith warrior or inquisitor. It sounds cool, especially if he/she tries to betray you. Then you keep them anyway after beating them. Anyone read the Darth Bane books? It doesn't take place in TOR but the author is really good, and he's writing Revan right now. I also heard a rumor that he's on the writing staff for TOR but Im not sure. Still, the Inquisitor was someone I wanted to start with from the first.
I really want an apprentice for either sith warrior or inquisitor. It sounds cool, especially if he/she tries to betray you. Then you keep them anyway after beating them. Anyone read the Darth Bane books? It doesn't take place in TOR but the author is really good, and he's writing Revan right now. I also heard a rumor that he's on the writing staff for TOR but Im not sure. Still, the Inquisitor was someone I wanted to start with from the first.
Drew Karpyshyn, the writer of the Darth Bane books, also wrote the story for KOTOR and is indeed one of the writers on TOR. He is in charge of wrapping up the KOTOR 1 and 2 stuff in TOR.
Hall Hood is the Jedi Knight's class writer. Drew did some work on the Jedi Knight when Hall was slammed with other responsibilities but Hall is the primary. Drew's work on the project has been as more of a jack of all trades, helping out wherever he can and graciously bringing his wisdom and years of experience to everything from character design to training of new writers. If there's any specific place Drew owns, it would be the legacy of KOTOR and how those questions get answered in game. Which means much of what he does is spoiler-riffic so you won't get to hear about most of it before you see it in game. And honestly, you're going to want to be surprised.
As far as writers per class, each class has a single writer that owns it but these have occasionally changed over time. Each Chapter of a class story is huge and a few times we have made changes. For example, in my early, naive days on the project we thought that I would have time to fully own a class and so the first couple of Bounty Hunter worlds are my work. As the sheer scope of the game became clear we learned it would not be possible for me to watch over all of the content and own a class as well and the talented Randy Begel has handled Bounty Hunter duties since then.
I've always been intrigued by the concept of evasion tanking. Unfortunately no one has gotten it right yet, as hitpoints and armor and being able to "soak" damage have trumped this idea. Here's to hoping we'll get an engaging and fun tank class that can competently MT.
You need to play a Warden in LoTRO they are a wicked evasion /light armour tank and are brilliant to play,imo LoTRO has the best PvE outta any MMo made to date!! I've been looking fwd to this game since SWG got killed,Sith Inquisitor looks like the class for me if they do as good a job as Turbine/Codemasters did with the Warden and in a Star Wars persistant world you want get off my PC,Release date plx
Am I the only one put off by the whole notion of classes in Star Wars "tanking"? I mean how does that fit the lore? I know this has probably been rehashed a lot but I still can't help but get that sick feeling in my stomach that at the end of the day I'm going to be really disappointed in this game's mechanics and it will feel like WoW in space with voice-overs.
While I agree with you on the potential mechanical issues, the idea of a tank seems to fit. How many times have we seen or read of a jedi taking on ten bad guys at once while his friends get to safety or whatever? A lot. That's tanking as far as lore is concerned. I do think evasion tanking fits better than HP tanking so I'm curious to see how it plays out.
Comments
Not sure if anyone else mentioned this yet as I don't have time to read all the replies, but...
The rogue tanks in RIFT are amazing evasion tanks. Really done well fom top to bottom.
No godless person can comprehend those minute distinctions
in doctrine that provide true believers excuse for mayhem.
-Glen Cook
You were correct, I'm concerned with it feeling too static and cardboard 1 tank 3 dps 1 heal set-up that has been the cornerstone of games since 2004. It doesnt "feel" right in Star Wars especially with the healing but even some with 'tanking' in its traditional sense.
I'm hopeful about the game, but concerned that I've been anticipating yet another WoW-clone with Star Wars characters and nice voice-overs. When I get to the end game it better not be daily grinds, sitting in queues for thirty minutes at a time because all the heal/tank specs are rare (IE less fun) or waiting for X battleground. That's all I'm saying. It better have something more dynamic and engaging like DAOC had or something entirely new than gated content and "gear sets". If I hear the term "gear set" again I think I'm going to puke.
Rift made me vomit the moment I approached 50th level.
Thirty years of gaming experience...not sure if I should be proud of that
www.mmoexaminer.blogspot.com
How can it be a tank?!
LOL. That "assassin" must be really good at what he does. I mean wearing 10 layers of giant armor that glows in the dark must make you really hard to detect.
World of Warcraft is the original creation of God. Real Life is in fact a WoW clone.
I show u.
It an littel like this: clickers
My brand new bloggity blog.
That class video looks very cool
Almost made me want to roll a Sith inq. But when watching the comments on their website, I realised that 4 out of 5 players probably roll a Sith. Not to mention that Jedi/Sith roleplaying is as cheesy as it comes, and I hate cheesy RP and their cheesy Darth something something names 
So Ill probably stick to some brawler type of class like Smuggler
I DROOLS FUN TIME heheh this game is making me want it even unpolished
They said somewhere that "Darth" (and 'Master", which is far more cheesy :P) will be a title reward and that it wont be just for anyone: you can complete the entire storyline and not unlocking it. And Darth, Master, etc., wont be tolerated as parts of player names either. So that should limit them somewhat.
p.s. I was afraid of faction imbalance as well but there is a poll with around 25k votes on the Swtor forums showing pretty evened out faction balance.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Best evasion tank I've ever played was a 220 Opifex Shade in Anarchy Online. If this game pulls it off as well as AO did with shade, this class will rock
My god has horns.... nah, I don't think he is real either.
If Remo had been wearing the superginormous Inquisitor pauldrons he could have just deflected the bullets back at that guy. Oh who am I kidding, he could have just used them to knock the guy out from up to three counties away. Sheesh. Ruby Rod had better fashion sense.
"the Sith Inquisitor just honestly seems to have something for everyone."
So Wow Deathknight then?
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I wonder if those titles are mutually excluisve? Because the name "Darth Master" would be pretty epic.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
There wasn't "a tank", there were lots of tanks considering they were all jedi so there was no need for someone to take all the agro and later in the movie, you see Jedi "tanking" droids while the clone troopers shoot behind them. So the tanking fits perfectly with the star wars theme.
I didn't realize Star Wars had the holy trinity for all these years I been a fan. o.O
I think this class being more of a hybrid of sorts will have its draw backs in the form of armor they can or cant wear and other such things. I for one am looking forward to playing one since it seems that they are a cross between a castor and mele which fits me just fine.
Score!
City of Heroes did it great with Super Reflex scrappers. I played one with Dark mele which was great for debuffing accuracy making myself harder to hit.
There were times a elite boss would wipe everyone, and there I was still standing because he missed me!
Evasion tanking is fun because of that random factor.
this was the class that immediately got my attention the first time i heard about the game. i was really hoping for a cc/moderate ranged dps class along the lines of a LOTRO loremaster minus the pets and with faster action.
what's being presented here looks like some weird hybrid and i'm not sure how it will play out .. i know that mike whatever from gamebreaker.tv was going on about the sith marauder stomping everything i'm afraid this game will take too many queues from WoW and be heavily melee focused ;/
i haven't had a chance to watch the trailer since i'm stuck at work and the video is blocked ...
Currently Playing: Perpetuum
MMOs Played (most time spent to least): World of Warcraft (BG/Open world PvP focused), Lord of the Rings Online (PvMP focused), Warhammer Online (BG PvP focused), Global Agenda, Age of Conan, DC Universe Online (PvP focused), Runes of Magic, Allods, Aion, Fallen Earth
yes, exactly, i had a 70 shaman in BC and it was horrible, optimal specs kept changing resetting gear grind .. nightmarish. i ditched that pve character at the time and went to a pvp mage on a low pop pvp server on the 3 to 1 outnumbered side, far better.
i'm afraid that this will suffer the same fate of a hybrid that will be 2nd or 3rd class for whichever role and that the 'pure' class will get picked first to do anything and most importantly will make it suck in pvp ;/
Currently Playing: Perpetuum
MMOs Played (most time spent to least): World of Warcraft (BG/Open world PvP focused), Lord of the Rings Online (PvMP focused), Warhammer Online (BG PvP focused), Global Agenda, Age of Conan, DC Universe Online (PvP focused), Runes of Magic, Allods, Aion, Fallen Earth
That's my fear. I'm torn between sith lord and inquisitor-
Thirty years of gaming experience...not sure if I should be proud of that
www.mmoexaminer.blogspot.com
Drew Karpyshyn, the writer of the Darth Bane books, also wrote the story for KOTOR and is indeed one of the writers on TOR. He is in charge of wrapping up the KOTOR 1 and 2 stuff in TOR.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5158497#post5158497
01.11.2011 , 11:17 AM
Hey Folks,
Hall Hood is the Jedi Knight's class writer. Drew did some work on the Jedi Knight when Hall was slammed with other responsibilities but Hall is the primary. Drew's work on the project has been as more of a jack of all trades, helping out wherever he can and graciously bringing his wisdom and years of experience to everything from character design to training of new writers. If there's any specific place Drew owns, it would be the legacy of KOTOR and how those questions get answered in game. Which means much of what he does is spoiler-riffic so you won't get to hear about most of it before you see it in game. And honestly, you're going to want to be surprised.
As far as writers per class, each class has a single writer that owns it but these have occasionally changed over time. Each Chapter of a class story is huge and a few times we have made changes. For example, in my early, naive days on the project we thought that I would have time to fully own a class and so the first couple of Bounty Hunter worlds are my work. As the sheer scope of the game became clear we learned it would not be possible for me to watch over all of the content and own a class as well and the talented Randy Begel has handled Bounty Hunter duties since then.
Hope that helps!
Daniel
While Vanguard sucked, they did a good job at an evasion tank. When you would dodge you'd get counter strikers..was cool.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
You need to play a Warden in LoTRO they are a wicked evasion /light armour tank and are brilliant to play,imo LoTRO has the best PvE outta any MMo made to date!! I've been looking fwd to this game since SWG got killed,Sith Inquisitor looks like the class for me if they do as good a job as Turbine/Codemasters did with the Warden and in a Star Wars persistant world you want get off my PC,Release date plx
wtf omg i jus got powned roflmao
While I agree with you on the potential mechanical issues, the idea of a tank seems to fit. How many times have we seen or read of a jedi taking on ten bad guys at once while his friends get to safety or whatever? A lot. That's tanking as far as lore is concerned. I do think evasion tanking fits better than HP tanking so I'm curious to see how it plays out.