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Who's tired of the whole genre?
jusomdude
Member RarePosts: 2,706
Why is it so hard for MMOs to evolve? With every new MMO I feel like I'm playing the same game I was playing a decade ago (DAoC).
They seem to all be based on one thing:
Kill things to progress your character.
I've had to of killed a trillion mobs by now.
MMOs really need to be reinvented... maybe with puzzles, more environmental interaction, other genre gameplay mechanics.
I'm about to give up on the genre, it's pretty much gone nowhere since it's inception. Even DAoC, one of the earliest MMOs is better than some of the new stuff coming out.
I guess my main point is:
I'm tired of beating things over the head for points and loot, for the love of god think of some new gameplay developers.
Comments
I don't mind killing things to level up, i consider it practice for end game. The problem i have with current MMOs is that end game invariably focuses on PVE gear grinding.
I don't mind leveling up in a game like DAoC, cause i know that when im done leveling, and making a template, i can go have a fun fun time in RVR.
The problem isnt the level grind, its the lack of enjoyable end game. I never got sick of RVR. I may have gotten sick of new frontiers. I played just about every class in daoc, probly had 30 50s. Had 2 rr11 toons and 2 rr10, and a bunch sub rr10, and i never got sick of RVR.
You are not alone.
Perhaps they could atleast start by making it fun to kill a trillion mobs and then go from there.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I gave up on MMO's 4 months ago, shifted to mount/bland series waiting for...anything decent to come out.
I am not tired of killing stuff. I do this in every game imaginable be it FPS, RTS, RPG.
I have a problem with how combat works in MMOs. In most MMOs you sit in one place pressing 1,2,3,4 and either you die or the mob dies. Most of the times who wins depends on your stats. If the mob has a bit more stats you blow your most powerful spells (cooldowns?) and you kill it. If you still can't kill it all you need to do is gain more levels.
This problem arises from how static combat is in MMOs. You never fight more than a few mobs at a time and it is mostly a solo experience. Mind you, I don't think MMOs should adopt a forced grouping philosophy. This is just as bad. Strafing, moving, positioning and proper use of your skills (or even using the right skills) all should matter. But these don't matter in MMOs!
Another thing is endgame. Lets face it. A game sooner or later has to end. You can't have an endless supply of content. Developers can't get content out faster than players can consume it. So how do MMOs fix this? Grind. Grind can take many forms but for some reason people always assume the item "treadmill" WoW has. Item grinding, reputation grinding, crafting grinding or any other repetitive time consuming action (even PvP can be put in here) is grind. Of course, this is not interesting. Ideally you would want to play new dungeons all the time rather than repeat the same thing over and over again. But this is impossible.
Most MMOs consist of leveling + end game. Leveling is just that. Gaining levels or skills, it's all the same especially when most games have quite similar combat. But the big problem comes with end game, for me that is. MMOs simply can't be the games they want to be. They must have an end. All games have an end. There is so much content you can put in. Put in grind and it "fixes" this problem.
And no, chatting to your mates in the game and being part of a community is not content.
MMOs = grind for levels, then go on the endgame treadmill.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Aye, I'm sick of collecting 6 wolf tails and killing 10 orcs (only the mob names change from game to game), I'm sick of gear grind, bored with endgames that feature piss-poor PvP and bog-standard raids and if I see one more cookie-cutter class I'll go postal.
An hour after I start playing a new game I'm trying to kid myself it's all fresh and interesting, and by the end of a month I know it's always the same old same old, tarted up a bit.
You see plenty of 'other genre mechanics'. Choices (RPG) for one, CTF (FPS), team-based area control (similar to the BF series) etc.
If 'killing' is what makes this genre boring then outside of sports/abstract (e.g dance central?) games, what do you play?
FPS, RTS, RPG, Action, simulation etc all resolve around kiliing/destroying something most of the time.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
QFT, I never played DAoC but I could see how it would be fun as I'd enjoyed leveling in WAR. The problem as stated above is that when you hit cap (and the games these days will get you there fast as possible solo) there's nothing left but gear grinds.
I suppose it was easier for me to ignore in games like CoX and EQ1 because the journey to cap took so much longer. I enjoyed the leveling in fact particularly because so little of it was solo. There were many more opportunities for socializing in both games that I just haven't found in today's MMOs- people just don't seem interested. I'm not sure if that was more due to the population of gamers we had back then or something in the mechanics of the game, but it also made me want to play longer and that's an urge I find less and less of anymore.
I suppose it works out for both sides though- for me I've moved on to a genre that is currently fun for me (and not paying a sub fee for subpar gaming), and official boards don't have me there anymore to pine for games with forced grouping and community. Win/win.
That game was my very first mmo and while I no longer play it, I will never forget it,AC was the best . If ever a game truly deserved to be re-made so as to give it modern graphics etc., this game is it. I would go back in a heartbeat if that miracle ever happens
Yea I have been playing Rift and I realized I can't play these games anymore til something different comes out. I have been playing Lotro for that last few years and really enjoyed it but I am totally burnt out now. I am gonna try some other games now such as Dragon age and Black ops for a change. in a year or so i will give the gengre another chance and see if they have improved though i doubt it.
That game was my very first mmo and while I no longer play it, I will never forget it,AC was the best . If ever a game truly deserved to be re-made so as to give it modern graphics etc., this game is it. I would go back in a heartbeat if that miracle ever happens
If you will look back at some classic muds, they offer even more complex game mechanics simply because programming mechanics in games is simple, the big bitch is graphic and all the mess it brings (graphic glitches, optimization, bugs, collisions). If you are willing to drop the graph, there is still world of great deep games out there, especially in slowly-dying muds community
Ditto. Not subscribed or playing any MMORPGs right now. In terms of money being made and number of players these days, the genre is doing spectacular (my guess).
But in terms of gameplay, the genre is in a rut in my eyes. I hope it does get better in gameplay, but I'm not betting money on it (P2P, F2P, or B2P-wise).
To put it bluntly, I highly believe the genre will keep cycling in its current state for years to come. Simply because they are making lots of money off it and that's that. Any hopes for improvements and changes in gameplay can go to hell for all the companies care.
Something truly drastic has to hit the genre for real change to occur, and I don't see it happening anytime soon.
Definitely not holding my breath.
P.S. - If you're hoping for more worthwhile activities to sink your teeth into other than killing another 100 rats / orcs / goblins / mushrooms, good luck. Current design frowns down upon putting worthwhile attempts to stuff outside of combat.
Simply put, outside of killing more rats, I think you can do less and less in an MMORPG game world these days compared to the turn of the century. Which is sad. MMORPGs are anything but giving a virtual world to do as much as possible with now.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
But in terms of gameplay, the genre is in a rut in my eyes. I hope it does get better in gameplay, but I'm not betting money on it (P2P, F2P, or B2P-wise).
To put it bluntly, I highly believe the genre will keep cycling in its current state for years to come. Simply because they are making lots of money off it and that's that. Any hopes for improvements and changes in gameplay can go to hell for all the companies care.
Something truly drastic has to hit the genre for real change to occur, and I don't see it happening anytime soon.
Definitely not holding my breath.
P.S. - If you're hoping for more worthwhile activities to sink your teeth into other than killing another 100 rats / orcs / goblins / mushrooms, good luck. Current design frowns down upon putting worthwhile attempts to stuff outside of combat.
Simply put, outside of killing more rats, I think you can do less and less in an MMORPG game world these days compared to the turn of the century. Which is sad. MMORPGs are anything but giving a virtual world to do as much as possible now.
And do you wonder why we have all this soccer-mom games ? Because this is where main customer-base shifted into. Typical gamer is not a geek anymore, it's a 35yo mother of 2 pursuing her career and freedom of vagina. She doesn't care to spend 5 hours discussing most optimal build and then 20 hours of honing her gaming skills to utilize that build properly.
I got into mmo's for the promise of world-simulators. At some point the genre moved away from that promise and I lost interest.
The genre is indeed very stale. Nothing new ever seems to come along. Just copies of old games with new looks and classes.
I crave for a quality game that has meaningful and challenging content but also has great endgame that does not involve raids at any point. Raids is what is killing MMOs for me. And the games that do not have raids, usually have poor content in general.
Why not just say, I don't want to play an MMORPG anymore, I want to play something else.
The MMORPG is fine, doens't need to be "renivented".
But you're welcome to invent something else.
Would you ask for a First Person Shooter, that didn't involve violence?
I want a new FPS. One that doesn't involve shooting. The FPS genre needs to be reinvented, maybe with puzzles instead of shooting.
Gee, it's not really an FPS anymore is it?
What about games like Darkfall, EVE, and Xsyon? They seem to break the mold. But in general I agree; most MMOs end up playing the same. I've played Rift and while it is, IMHO, better than WoW it is still missing something... What I wish for is something like Darkfall, EVE and Xsyon, Wurm in a fantasy setting, with worldshaping, sandbox, heavy crafting and a PVP similar to EVE.
Im tired of grinding levels until endgame, just to do endless repeative raids for gear. Its pointless.
I loved many of the stories when leveling up in LotrO, but the fact that it only have one faction and no way to put your mark
on the world you playing in is just boring in the end.
Hauken Stormchaser
I want pre-CU back
Station.com : We got your game
Yeah?, Well i want it back!!!
I think the main difference is that in contrast to singleplayer or even multiplayer games, most MMO gamers have played any MMO for thousands of hours, where a singleplayer or multiplayer game is often played for far less time.
I guess that if you had to play those games for thousands of hours too, people'd start to show the same signs of aversion and burnout, because that's what it often is, an MMO burnout or fatigue towards certain MMO gameplay features because of an excessive amount of time having played them.
Besides that, added to this you have the problem that while MMO's can never equal their contemporary singleplayer games in certain gameplay aspects (story complexity/immersion a la LA Noire, Mass Effect, Heavy Rain etc, combat mechanics and environment usage a la Deus Ex or HL2), MMO's also fail to make optimal use of the things they can be strong in, like creating a virtual world feeling or building upon a community a la Second Life for example.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'm not tired of the genre, I'm just tired of all of the MMO wannabe themeparks that don't even try to be virtual worlds.
I am tired too, but why evolve when you can do money easily ? nowday developer are no-sense..
WarHammer was the last MMO I played and only for a few months starting in beta. I find it hard to convince myself to just level up another character. There hasn't been any world worth exploring. All are mostly just the same thing I've seen for years. I don't have any reason to make any more virtual friends. I'm not challenged while playing, since MMOs aren't really difficult. So its just killing time, something I have a limited amount of. Spending 50 hrs playhing DA2 is far more enjoyable than any MMO. I'm not sure when I'll play another. Maybe GW2, since it won't have a fee.
I'm tired of the community, not the genre.
Well, there are several new games being released soon that are expanding on the genre in several ways but one in particular would be with combat. Combat in mmos seems to be shifting more toward the action end of the spectrum with dodges and aimed abilities. It also appears that mmos are starting to try to implement deeper stories to drive progression. This can be seen in games like SWTOR and GW2, although we wont get to know the impact until the two games release. Im not sure if these alone are enough to revitalize the genre but atleast its a start.
I will also say that revitalizing the mmorpg genre would not involve eliminating the basic concepts that form rpgs such as character progression. Without these key concepts then the game doesn't even fit into the genre to begin with.