its so sad it been the "beginning of the end" for WoW for 3 years. WoW is the king and you people just can't handle that your crappy MMO can't touch it. Honestly stop being so petty and move on this is not a feature for your game why care? Blizzard is a bussiness they make money its how it works. Guild Wars uses a RMT Shop it would cost me the upwards of 150-200 dollars to get everything. I could spend hundreds of dollars on any F2P with a cash shop just to keep up with other people. Blizzard is problably still pretty cheap in comparasion to some of its compatition and they still provide the better product.
This is how people will justify paying for a service that they've already paid for.
Let me ask an honest question... What if you went to the movie theatre, bought your ticket, but when you went to go sit down there was an usher who informed you that it would be an extra $2 to sit? You assume you just paid for the seat when you bought your ticket, right? But wait, they're just a business and trying to make money, and that's how it works.
What it really is, though, is consumer gouging. No, you don't have to use the service and therefor don't have to pay for it, but it's something that should have been included in the price of your subscription that they've made separate and are now charging a fee for. It's not honest, and it's not fair to the users.
Here's a better comparison. You go to a movie and pay $14.00 to get in. You go to the confections stand and buy some popcorns and sodas for another $10 (plus another soda for that hot date bringing you up to $14). Then you go to a THIRD purchasing option and they are handing out 3-D glasses that promise a premium movie experience for $3.
If you choose not to get the glasses you are watching the exact same movie as everyone else, except you won't get that little extra.
If you choose not to buy the confections you are watching the exact same movie as everyone else, except you won't leave the theater feeling full.
You're missing the point that the feature should be included in the price of the original subscription. It's being sold and marketed as an "extra", but it's something you should expect to recieve for your initial purchase.
The essential things required to play the game are included in the sub fee. Extra crap like that is extra crap.
DDO and a F2P account and a VIP (Sub fee) account. VIP instantly got new content, extended services with the auctioneer, and were credited points each month to use as you will in the store along with other benefits that I can't remeber.
Blizz is not rewarding their sub members at all. If they are going to go with this premium crap then they might as well go with a buisness model like DDO. All this premium service is a slap in the face to all their loyal consumers. I got tired of their mistreatment to their players years ago and glad I canxed my sub a long time ago before this crap happened.
Those of you that play World of Warcraft in the US pay $16 per month. It costs Blizzard somewhere in the region of $4 to provide the ongoing service (that includes ALL fees, including development costs (including new features like this)). That means they're already making $11 a month from each of you.
To those of you arguing that this is just an "additional feature" that doesn't break or enhance the game in any meaningful way, let me make one thing clear: the continued success of any game like World of Warcraft is fundamentally reliant on the community and social nature of the gaming experience. Any addition that effects that experience DOES enhance and change the game in a very meaningful and noticable way. That may not be obvious to you now but it is true and you will realise it in time.
You're missing the point that the feature should be included in the price of the original subscription. It's being sold and marketed as an "extra", but it's something you should expect to recieve for your initial purchase.
Why?
In in the movie example the theater charges for the 3D glasses. In my opinion you need the 3D glasses in order to see the movie therefore THAT should be part of the ticket. However, to create the glasses, ship them, dispense them, etc costs a bit extra so I can understand a slightly higher cost. But that still should be part of the ticket.
This service is not needed to play the game. To play WoW. It's extra. therefore some sort of additional cost at least makes some sense.
They are investing money into creating this service which they claim is quite involved. I'm sure some pro's will have a better handle on what it entails.
why shouldn't they recoup some of that money back?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Those of you that play World of Warcraft in the US pay $16 per month. It costs Blizzard somewhere in the region of $4 to provide the ongoing service (that includes ALL fees, including development costs (including new features like this)). That means they're already making $11 a month from each of you.
To those of you arguing that this is just an "additional feature" that doesn't break or enhance the game in any meaningful way, let me make one thing clear: the continued success of any game like World of Warcraft is fundamentally reliant on the community and social nature of the gaming experience. Any addition that effects that experience DOES enhance and change the game in a very meaningful and noticable way. That may not be obvious to you now but it is true and you will realise it in time.
I found it somewhere on the web awhile back how much they spend vs how much they gain and from what I remember it costs them less than a dollar from each subscription fee to cover costs.
They should absolutely not charge more when they are already gaining so much profit but I suppose that greed knows no bounds and I don't have any doubts that they can get away with it.
Hopefully everyone who is complaining and outraged will quit wow. Good riddance.
It's a freaking PREMIUM service that is being offered. Not unlike many many other businesses offer.
Example: I have cable TV. They offer PREMIUM channels such as HBO and Showtime if I CHOOSE to pay for them. I'm not outraged that they are charging EXTRA for the cable service and I don't feel ENTITLED to receive the premium channels just because I already subscribe to cable TV.
They won't get away with this subs are going to continue to close and all that will be left are the 10 million gold farmers left. Wow had it reign but it's over now by next year wont be many left i am pretty sure of this. SWTOR and guild wars 2 are gonna take a nice chucnk of that 1 million subs that are actually players and not gold sellers that makes the other 10 million accounts. If u notice not even the bigtime youtubers that made their claim to fame doing wow stuff hardley even report on the game anymore. Totalbiscut,xephos and omfg barely care anymore. Though i'd say a 1.10 server would bring a ton of people back. game has gone slowly down hill since after that patch.
2. As for legality, I have no idea. But, most ToS that we "accept" don't hold water in courts.
Was going to hold off since this is already a day old but...
Sorry to pee in your cornflakes. "Shrinkwrap licensing" -- more or less the same thing as here -- is seen by courts as generally valid.
And, if there *is* anything unfair about it, the second your next payment deducts from your bank account, you've waived any right to sue. Continued payment is going to be seen as voluntary acceptance.
Suing will require that you prove "damages". So from the time you heard about the impending change to the time you cancel your account (to avoid the waiver I mentioned above), if you could somehow convince a court that you suffered damages, it's going to be pretty much limited to one month's sub fees, and probably pro-rated for the number of days in the month you logged in before cancelling.
Seriously, IANAL, but your *only* recourse is to stop paying / stop playing.
I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji
Hopefully everyone who is complaining and outraged will quit wow. Good riddance.
It's a freaking PREMIUM service that is being offered. Not unlike many many other businesses offer.
Example: I have cable TV. They offer PREMIUM channels such as HBO and Showtime if I CHOOSE to pay for them. I'm not outraged that they are charging EXTRA for the cable service and I don't feel ENTITLED to receive the premium channels just because I already subscribe to cable TV.
If you put it this way, what's stopping them from naming all new content as "Premium" and requiring an extra few dollars a month to access? After all players don't HAVE to play this new content right? There's already content there for them.
Hopefully everyone who is complaining and outraged will quit wow. Good riddance.
It's a freaking PREMIUM service that is being offered. Not unlike many many other businesses offer.
Example: I have cable TV. They offer PREMIUM channels such as HBO and Showtime if I CHOOSE to pay for them. I'm not outraged that they are charging EXTRA for the cable service and I don't feel ENTITLED to receive the premium channels just because I already subscribe to cable TV.
If you put it this way, what's stopping them from naming all new content as "Premium" and requiring an extra few dollars a month to access? After all players don't HAVE to play this new content right? There's already content there for them.
I wouldn't put something like this past them.
Nothing is stopping them. It's called an expansion.
Hopefully everyone who is complaining and outraged will quit wow. Good riddance.
It's a freaking PREMIUM service that is being offered. Not unlike many many other businesses offer.
Example: I have cable TV. They offer PREMIUM channels such as HBO and Showtime if I CHOOSE to pay for them. I'm not outraged that they are charging EXTRA for the cable service and I don't feel ENTITLED to receive the premium channels just because I already subscribe to cable TV.
If you put it this way, what's stopping them from naming all new content as "Premium" and requiring an extra few dollars a month to access? After all players don't HAVE to play this new content right? There's already content there for them.
I wouldn't put something like this past them.
Nothing is stopping them. It's called an expansion.
Wrong, our monthly sub fees don't go up for expansions.
Those of you that play World of Warcraft in the US pay $16 per month. It costs Blizzard somewhere in the region of $4 to provide the ongoing service (that includes ALL fees, including development costs (including new features like this)). That means they're already making $11 a month from each of you.
Cost of sales (the cost to run) MMOs under Activision-Blizzard (aka WoW), listed as $241 million in 2010 on page F3 (near the bottom) of the report.
Total revenue from "subscription, licensing, and other revenues" is 1,360 million (that's 1.36 billion). Keep in mind this is Activision-Blizzard, so this is diluted with other products.
Because of this it's hard to know exactly what the subscriber income is exactly from that since they've lumped it together... But consider that there's 5 million 'active subscribers' in NA/EU paying $15 a month, it's not unreasonable to speculate that they're making at least $750 million in revenue on subscriptions. That's against $241 in operating costs for WoW... which works out to around $4-5 a subscriber going towards running the game. Again, that's only against 5 million players in NA/EU, not even considering revenue from royalties from the licensing of WoW in China, nor any other subscriptions of the game in other regions.
There is some speculation from the numbers, but even a conservative assumption puts the cost of running WoW at about $4-5 per subscriber in NA/EU.
Hopefully everyone who is complaining and outraged will quit wow. Good riddance.
It's a freaking PREMIUM service that is being offered. Not unlike many many other businesses offer.
Example: I have cable TV. They offer PREMIUM channels such as HBO and Showtime if I CHOOSE to pay for them. I'm not outraged that they are charging EXTRA for the cable service and I don't feel ENTITLED to receive the premium channels just because I already subscribe to cable TV.
Part of the thing about cable though is that my service has genrally increased to make what my cable company offers seem more valuable then their competitors. For example, they constantly offer discounts on the various movie packages and such which keep their price at or below the cost of competition coupled with the hassle of changing service. Aside from that, people have been fighting for the ability to order cable channels "a la carte" as opposed to strictly package based so the assumption that everyone is complacent with the structure of cable service offerings is not universal.
Now, if we look at MMOs, we can see a few high profile games in the near future which make the timing and nature of this announcement a bit odd. I mean, Blizzard could use this feature as a "hey, look at this cool new system we implemented at no extra cost!" which would, for some, increase their perceived value of the game and maybe keep them hookd a bit longer. It might even get a few curious people to come back for a month and try it out. Conversely, as someone pointed out previously, it could potentially reduce server transfer revenue, so maybe that's a factor in their decision.
For me, I wouldn't use the service, so aside from being a bit disappointed at the blatant "nickle and dime" as I see it, it doesn't significantly alter my game play experince. At least no more then seeing a character fly by on a sparkling pony or with some vanity pet they purchased. If someone has expendable income, it's really their choice what they are willing to accept, or in the case of those displeased, are willing to tolerate.
I wonder how much of this is using the customer base of WoW to test pricing models for their next MMO or if they would risk the "goodwill" of the WoW customers for such an effort...Maybe that's just me hoping there is more to it then short-term dollar signs...
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I along with many others voiced concerns over this on the forums. They we're ignored. Eventually the threads began to get a little obnoxious. There was no warning at all nor deletion of threads they just did mass bans. When I inquired why I got an answer that pretty much said just cuz. I asked why they were rude and not respond with a post. Saying it will be addressed later or that the threads were against coc they were silent. There are many ways to handle customers and their customer service is aweful. They could have diffused the situation but chose not to. I made a total of four posts in four threads. I don't even care about the ban I just care abliut how bad it was handled. I have been getting tired of the game and this just pushed over to quitting. Usually I stop playing and leave myself subscribed but I don't want to give my money to people that treat me like crap. So I asked billing for a refund for the remaining time on my three accounts and they agreed.
I needed a psuh to kick wow. I hope they don't try to sweet taalk me back after the emails I sent and the surveys they sent me. I doubt they will try that company is arrogant. Love the product and most of the staff but the jackasses who moderate the forums hove no people skills.
You're missing the point that the feature should be included in the price of the original subscription. It's being sold and marketed as an "extra", but it's something you should expect to recieve for your initial purchase.
Why?
In in the movie example the theater charges for the 3D glasses. In my opinion you need the 3D glasses in order to see the movie therefore THAT should be part of the ticket. However, to create the glasses, ship them, dispense them, etc costs a bit extra so I can understand a slightly higher cost. But that still should be part of the ticket.
This service is not needed to play the game. To play WoW. It's extra. therefore some sort of additional cost at least makes some sense.
They are investing money into creating this service which they claim is quite involved. I'm sure some pro's will have a better handle on what it entails.
why shouldn't they recoup some of that money back?
They are recouping that money back. It's in the form of the subscription fees that players pay every month to keep their developers and staff working on things just like this. A lot of people think their subscription just goes toward CSRs and server bandwidth, but this is precisely the type of developement you're paying for in addition to the others. Want precedent? Think about why they don't charge you when they come out with a free new series of dungeons or raids. They didn't just spend time and money developing those because of their generosity. They weren't included in the original game/xpack, so these are "extras" that are actively paid for every month by the subcriptions.
Now let me point out that they already have a system that pulls players across realms to form them into a dungeon group, and they already have the Real ID system set up to locate and recognize your friends no matter what game they're playing, or what server they're on. Why, when combining these two features, would you ever expect that your subscription fee isn't enough?
Simply put, it's on the player to set the expectation of what they'll recieve when they pay for something. If you're okay paying a premium for this service, then fine, I can't argue that. It's obviously not within your expectations to recieve it without paying more. A lot of people, however, do consider this type of thing to be included in sub fees, and are not okay with the thought of Blizzard offering in game features as a "Premium" service.
This is just pure greed from a company desperately trying to squeeze every penny out of the fanbase before people eventually leave for a newer game. I like Blizzard's games but their financial decisions leave you with a bad taste in your mouth and an empty wallet.
Originally posted by Ackbar I was gonna unsub due to boredom but now im unsubbing due to outrage.
I unsubscribed back when they announced the RealID forum thing - after sending hate mail from five email accounts tied to different battle.net accounts.
The company that liked it's playerbase and cared if they had a good time or enjoyed their games is gone.
Way to show that Blizzard games are made by gamers for gamers. NOT! Pure cash grab plain and simple. I hope enough players cry out about this and they change their minds and make it a feature included with your subscription. If not then I won't lose any sleep over leaving WoW and waiting for something new on the horizon. Here's looking at the next batch of mmos to sink my teeth into. Until then I'll keep playing GA: Free Agent.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
A lot of points to address in this thread, but I will keep it brief and simple.
1. Real ID was developed in WotLK along with the grouping feature with friends. It is merely greyed out currently and must be activated by paying for the premium service once Blizz/Act decides to make it live.
There is no cost to recoup for Blizz/Act for allowing such a premium service as it has already been recouped since the last expansion, and put in place. All they need is to flick a switch, and a payment processing groundwork to make it reality.
2. This premium service is different from the other micro transactions because for the most part they were not significantly effecting the game world. In the other words, this is the first time a micro transaction that will effect que times if they are segregated because of this feature.
3. Cataclysm recently launched, so that provided a nice nest egg for them for future projects along with subs. As it has been mentioned in point 1, there is no cost to recoup for putting in place a feature that was already finished in WotLK.
In summary, I am surprised they would move in this direction, and it appears they are trying to simmer down resistance to such a feature. But I think this may lead to more bleeding of subs which is what happened the last time real ID became a hot topic. This time though, this feature is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to segregating the player base.
The old guy that stated that the world would end today ( May 21st ) might not have been all wrong, altho he got the world wrong. Starting today, May 21st, it's the beginning of the End of the World (of Warcraft.)
Cost of sales (the cost to run) MMOs under Activision-Blizzard (aka WoW), listed as $241 million in 2010 on page F3 (near the bottom) of the report.
Total revenue from "subscription, licensing, and other revenues" is 1,360 million (that's 1.36 billion). Keep in mind this is Activision-Blizzard, so this is diluted with other products.
Because of this it's hard to know exactly what the subscriber income is exactly from that since they've lumped it together... But consider that there's 5 million 'active subscribers' in NA/EU paying $15 a month, it's not unreasonable to speculate that they're making at least $750 million in revenue on subscriptions. That's against $241 in operating costs for WoW... which works out to around $4-5 a subscriber going towards running the game. Again, that's only against 5 million players in NA/EU, not even considering revenue from royalties from the licensing of WoW in China, nor any other subscriptions of the game in other regions.
There is some speculation from the numbers, but even a conservative assumption puts the cost of running WoW at about $4-5 per subscriber in NA/EU.
TL;DR:
Acti-Blizzard is making a ton of money off WoW.
The really interesting part is when you consider that GW has always been sub-free and that GW2 will be sub-free too. If the cost would amount to a 4-5 dollar per player, then how is ANet kept floating without sub revenues?
Or are they that more efficient so that their costs are lower?
My guess is that the whole argument that's often used that 'subs are needed to cover the maintenance cost and development' is nothing but an excuse and more often than not covers bad design and a bloated organisation structure. I think that maybe 1-2 dollars max per player is needed for actual maintenance and development in Blizzard's case, the rest is just overhead and profit.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Here's a better comparison. You go to a movie and pay $14.00 to get in. You go to the confections stand and buy some popcorns and sodas for another $10 (plus another soda for that hot date bringing you up to $14). Then you go to a THIRD purchasing option and they are handing out 3-D glasses that promise a premium movie experience for $3.
If you choose not to get the glasses you are watching the exact same movie as everyone else, except you won't get that little extra.
If you choose not to buy the confections you are watching the exact same movie as everyone else, except you won't leave the theater feeling full.
That isn't what is being sold. The dungeon finder isn't an actual product or thing that is separate from the movie that would justify the cost. A more appropriate analogy would be if the movie theater charged a premium for you to view the movie with sound.
My take on this is that you only have to go onto the main WoW forums; there are more than 12 entire threads discussing this issue. Take it for what it is, like religion, it will make or break people's attitudes about WoW and maybe it has already past that point.
For a company to bring out an option like this, it is indeed their right. The thing to consider is why? This has been the disturbing question. Why now? Merely it can't be as a result of the recent announced loss of subscriptions.
The whole debate is not merely this announced proposal to the dynamics of the game, which it will be used to once again turn the already "shaky" community upside down even further but also what this will lead to.
What will indeed lead Blizzard to not bring out more setbacks to the WoW community in the future?
I can't fathom why some people would be for this kind of system. Is it because they will buy into it? Abuse it? Because their $15.00 a month is not already the reason why this proposed change should be free?
To be honest it doesn't really at the end of the day, even if this change is reverted. For some, the idea is enough. After all, some players with a long term vision to keep the healthy populace going in WoW look at it from this angle; how could a proposed system like this support players uniting together? Do people now have to pay for this privilage? If it ain't a privilage from player's P2P subscriptions, then is Blizzard saying you can play with your friends from other servers but it is not your right?
I have read most of the discussion from the WoW forums and some people are really angry about this. Should they be? Some say: "You don't like it, you don't need to pay for it, it won't affect you." There will be consequences and yes there will be affects right across the board. You only need to look into how the LFD is set up and the vote kick system. It is already set up in a fragile way with PUGs, I can only imagine what it will be like when you mix premium based groups and random strangers. That is a complete power struggle.
I am going to leave it here but my final thought on this topic is this: So many other wonderful things have been introduced and integrated onto the live servers over the years, based on development costs, so why this, why now?
I'm fine with this. I won't partake it in because I only know a couple people in my social life who play it so we are all on the same server. If it means that much to otherd and they are are ok with paying then sure. Like most things in life you -really- do not have to pay for it. Others might be upset and consider it a cash in but, again, if you want it then get it. I don't buy new cars because of the bad investment(s) in them but I understand why others do. I know McDonalds is bad for me but I eat there anyway. Free will people, don't hate on it. If you don't like it then you simply don't have to participate: it won't hurt you, at all. Other things to worry about in life, like....leprachauns.
As others have already said, Blizzard know how to milk the cow.
Having said that, premium services are just that, premium, if you don't want to pay extra for it then don't, simple as that really. I don't agree with what Blizzard are doing, cash shop, premium services etc on top of a monthly fee but end of the day they have the subscription numbers and probably the proof that they aren't losing many people to other mmo's, so makes sense from a business point of view doing this.
If only 5% of there (supposed) 12 million sub base pay £9.99 for the service then that's just under £6million into Blizzards coffers, now if you were in business yourself wouldn't you say this is just too good to pass up :P (I don't know the price they will offer the service at so the £9.99 is a hyperthetical number).
Comments
DDO and a F2P account and a VIP (Sub fee) account. VIP instantly got new content, extended services with the auctioneer, and were credited points each month to use as you will in the store along with other benefits that I can't remeber.
Blizz is not rewarding their sub members at all. If they are going to go with this premium crap then they might as well go with a buisness model like DDO. All this premium service is a slap in the face to all their loyal consumers. I got tired of their mistreatment to their players years ago and glad I canxed my sub a long time ago before this crap happened.
Those of you that play World of Warcraft in the US pay $16 per month. It costs Blizzard somewhere in the region of $4 to provide the ongoing service (that includes ALL fees, including development costs (including new features like this)). That means they're already making $11 a month from each of you.
To those of you arguing that this is just an "additional feature" that doesn't break or enhance the game in any meaningful way, let me make one thing clear: the continued success of any game like World of Warcraft is fundamentally reliant on the community and social nature of the gaming experience. Any addition that effects that experience DOES enhance and change the game in a very meaningful and noticable way. That may not be obvious to you now but it is true and you will realise it in time.
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!
Why?
In in the movie example the theater charges for the 3D glasses. In my opinion you need the 3D glasses in order to see the movie therefore THAT should be part of the ticket. However, to create the glasses, ship them, dispense them, etc costs a bit extra so I can understand a slightly higher cost. But that still should be part of the ticket.
This service is not needed to play the game. To play WoW. It's extra. therefore some sort of additional cost at least makes some sense.
They are investing money into creating this service which they claim is quite involved. I'm sure some pro's will have a better handle on what it entails.
why shouldn't they recoup some of that money back?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I found it somewhere on the web awhile back how much they spend vs how much they gain and from what I remember it costs them less than a dollar from each subscription fee to cover costs.
They should absolutely not charge more when they are already gaining so much profit but I suppose that greed knows no bounds and I don't have any doubts that they can get away with it.
Hopefully everyone who is complaining and outraged will quit wow. Good riddance.
It's a freaking PREMIUM service that is being offered. Not unlike many many other businesses offer.
Example: I have cable TV. They offer PREMIUM channels such as HBO and Showtime if I CHOOSE to pay for them. I'm not outraged that they are charging EXTRA for the cable service and I don't feel ENTITLED to receive the premium channels just because I already subscribe to cable TV.
They won't get away with this subs are going to continue to close and all that will be left are the 10 million gold farmers left. Wow had it reign but it's over now by next year wont be many left i am pretty sure of this. SWTOR and guild wars 2 are gonna take a nice chucnk of that 1 million subs that are actually players and not gold sellers that makes the other 10 million accounts. If u notice not even the bigtime youtubers that made their claim to fame doing wow stuff hardley even report on the game anymore. Totalbiscut,xephos and omfg barely care anymore. Though i'd say a 1.10 server would bring a ton of people back. game has gone slowly down hill since after that patch.
Was going to hold off since this is already a day old but...
Sorry to pee in your cornflakes. "Shrinkwrap licensing" -- more or less the same thing as here -- is seen by courts as generally valid.
And, if there *is* anything unfair about it, the second your next payment deducts from your bank account, you've waived any right to sue. Continued payment is going to be seen as voluntary acceptance.
Suing will require that you prove "damages". So from the time you heard about the impending change to the time you cancel your account (to avoid the waiver I mentioned above), if you could somehow convince a court that you suffered damages, it's going to be pretty much limited to one month's sub fees, and probably pro-rated for the number of days in the month you logged in before cancelling.
Seriously, IANAL, but your *only* recourse is to stop paying / stop playing.
I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji
If you put it this way, what's stopping them from naming all new content as "Premium" and requiring an extra few dollars a month to access? After all players don't HAVE to play this new content right? There's already content there for them.
I wouldn't put something like this past them.
Nothing is stopping them. It's called an expansion.
Wrong, our monthly sub fees don't go up for expansions.
http://investor.activision.com/reports.cfm
2010 Q4 year end report.
Cost of sales (the cost to run) MMOs under Activision-Blizzard (aka WoW), listed as $241 million in 2010 on page F3 (near the bottom) of the report.
Total revenue from "subscription, licensing, and other revenues" is 1,360 million (that's 1.36 billion). Keep in mind this is Activision-Blizzard, so this is diluted with other products.
Because of this it's hard to know exactly what the subscriber income is exactly from that since they've lumped it together... But consider that there's 5 million 'active subscribers' in NA/EU paying $15 a month, it's not unreasonable to speculate that they're making at least $750 million in revenue on subscriptions. That's against $241 in operating costs for WoW... which works out to around $4-5 a subscriber going towards running the game. Again, that's only against 5 million players in NA/EU, not even considering revenue from royalties from the licensing of WoW in China, nor any other subscriptions of the game in other regions.
There is some speculation from the numbers, but even a conservative assumption puts the cost of running WoW at about $4-5 per subscriber in NA/EU.
TL;DR:
Acti-Blizzard is making a ton of money off WoW.
Part of the thing about cable though is that my service has genrally increased to make what my cable company offers seem more valuable then their competitors. For example, they constantly offer discounts on the various movie packages and such which keep their price at or below the cost of competition coupled with the hassle of changing service. Aside from that, people have been fighting for the ability to order cable channels "a la carte" as opposed to strictly package based so the assumption that everyone is complacent with the structure of cable service offerings is not universal.
Now, if we look at MMOs, we can see a few high profile games in the near future which make the timing and nature of this announcement a bit odd. I mean, Blizzard could use this feature as a "hey, look at this cool new system we implemented at no extra cost!" which would, for some, increase their perceived value of the game and maybe keep them hookd a bit longer. It might even get a few curious people to come back for a month and try it out. Conversely, as someone pointed out previously, it could potentially reduce server transfer revenue, so maybe that's a factor in their decision.
For me, I wouldn't use the service, so aside from being a bit disappointed at the blatant "nickle and dime" as I see it, it doesn't significantly alter my game play experince. At least no more then seeing a character fly by on a sparkling pony or with some vanity pet they purchased. If someone has expendable income, it's really their choice what they are willing to accept, or in the case of those displeased, are willing to tolerate.
I wonder how much of this is using the customer base of WoW to test pricing models for their next MMO or if they would risk the "goodwill" of the WoW customers for such an effort...Maybe that's just me hoping there is more to it then short-term dollar signs...
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I needed a psuh to kick wow. I hope they don't try to sweet taalk me back after the emails I sent and the surveys they sent me. I doubt they will try that company is arrogant. Love the product and most of the staff but the jackasses who moderate the forums hove no people skills.
They are recouping that money back. It's in the form of the subscription fees that players pay every month to keep their developers and staff working on things just like this. A lot of people think their subscription just goes toward CSRs and server bandwidth, but this is precisely the type of developement you're paying for in addition to the others. Want precedent? Think about why they don't charge you when they come out with a free new series of dungeons or raids. They didn't just spend time and money developing those because of their generosity. They weren't included in the original game/xpack, so these are "extras" that are actively paid for every month by the subcriptions.
Now let me point out that they already have a system that pulls players across realms to form them into a dungeon group, and they already have the Real ID system set up to locate and recognize your friends no matter what game they're playing, or what server they're on. Why, when combining these two features, would you ever expect that your subscription fee isn't enough?
Simply put, it's on the player to set the expectation of what they'll recieve when they pay for something. If you're okay paying a premium for this service, then fine, I can't argue that. It's obviously not within your expectations to recieve it without paying more. A lot of people, however, do consider this type of thing to be included in sub fees, and are not okay with the thought of Blizzard offering in game features as a "Premium" service.
This is just pure greed from a company desperately trying to squeeze every penny out of the fanbase before people eventually leave for a newer game. I like Blizzard's games but their financial decisions leave you with a bad taste in your mouth and an empty wallet.
I unsubscribed back when they announced the RealID forum thing - after sending hate mail from five email accounts tied to different battle.net accounts.
The company that liked it's playerbase and cared if they had a good time or enjoyed their games is gone.
Way to show that Blizzard games are made by gamers for gamers. NOT! Pure cash grab plain and simple. I hope enough players cry out about this and they change their minds and make it a feature included with your subscription. If not then I won't lose any sleep over leaving WoW and waiting for something new on the horizon. Here's looking at the next batch of mmos to sink my teeth into. Until then I'll keep playing GA: Free Agent.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
A lot of points to address in this thread, but I will keep it brief and simple.
1. Real ID was developed in WotLK along with the grouping feature with friends. It is merely greyed out currently and must be activated by paying for the premium service once Blizz/Act decides to make it live.
There is no cost to recoup for Blizz/Act for allowing such a premium service as it has already been recouped since the last expansion, and put in place. All they need is to flick a switch, and a payment processing groundwork to make it reality.
2. This premium service is different from the other micro transactions because for the most part they were not significantly effecting the game world. In the other words, this is the first time a micro transaction that will effect que times if they are segregated because of this feature.
3. Cataclysm recently launched, so that provided a nice nest egg for them for future projects along with subs. As it has been mentioned in point 1, there is no cost to recoup for putting in place a feature that was already finished in WotLK.
In summary, I am surprised they would move in this direction, and it appears they are trying to simmer down resistance to such a feature. But I think this may lead to more bleeding of subs which is what happened the last time real ID became a hot topic. This time though, this feature is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to segregating the player base.
The old guy that stated that the world would end today ( May 21st ) might not have been all wrong, altho he got the world wrong. Starting today, May 21st, it's the beginning of the End of the World (of Warcraft.)
The really interesting part is when you consider that GW has always been sub-free and that GW2 will be sub-free too. If the cost would amount to a 4-5 dollar per player, then how is ANet kept floating without sub revenues?
Or are they that more efficient so that their costs are lower?
My guess is that the whole argument that's often used that 'subs are needed to cover the maintenance cost and development' is nothing but an excuse and more often than not covers bad design and a bloated organisation structure. I think that maybe 1-2 dollars max per player is needed for actual maintenance and development in Blizzard's case, the rest is just overhead and profit.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
That isn't what is being sold. The dungeon finder isn't an actual product or thing that is separate from the movie that would justify the cost. A more appropriate analogy would be if the movie theater charged a premium for you to view the movie with sound.
The argument of "you dont need it or like it then dont pay for it" is really a feebleminded one.
Don't these people stop and think, "maybe one day they'll charge for something I want that should be included"
I wonder if these same people would be arguing if the LFD went out as a premium service.
My take on this is that you only have to go onto the main WoW forums; there are more than 12 entire threads discussing this issue. Take it for what it is, like religion, it will make or break people's attitudes about WoW and maybe it has already past that point.
For a company to bring out an option like this, it is indeed their right. The thing to consider is why? This has been the disturbing question. Why now? Merely it can't be as a result of the recent announced loss of subscriptions.
The whole debate is not merely this announced proposal to the dynamics of the game, which it will be used to once again turn the already "shaky" community upside down even further but also what this will lead to.
What will indeed lead Blizzard to not bring out more setbacks to the WoW community in the future?
I can't fathom why some people would be for this kind of system. Is it because they will buy into it? Abuse it? Because their $15.00 a month is not already the reason why this proposed change should be free?
To be honest it doesn't really at the end of the day, even if this change is reverted. For some, the idea is enough. After all, some players with a long term vision to keep the healthy populace going in WoW look at it from this angle; how could a proposed system like this support players uniting together? Do people now have to pay for this privilage? If it ain't a privilage from player's P2P subscriptions, then is Blizzard saying you can play with your friends from other servers but it is not your right?
I have read most of the discussion from the WoW forums and some people are really angry about this. Should they be? Some say: "You don't like it, you don't need to pay for it, it won't affect you." There will be consequences and yes there will be affects right across the board. You only need to look into how the LFD is set up and the vote kick system. It is already set up in a fragile way with PUGs, I can only imagine what it will be like when you mix premium based groups and random strangers. That is a complete power struggle.
I am going to leave it here but my final thought on this topic is this: So many other wonderful things have been introduced and integrated onto the live servers over the years, based on development costs, so why this, why now?
I'm fine with this. I won't partake it in because I only know a couple people in my social life who play it so we are all on the same server. If it means that much to otherd and they are are ok with paying then sure. Like most things in life you -really- do not have to pay for it. Others might be upset and consider it a cash in but, again, if you want it then get it. I don't buy new cars because of the bad investment(s) in them but I understand why others do. I know McDonalds is bad for me but I eat there anyway. Free will people, don't hate on it. If you don't like it then you simply don't have to participate: it won't hurt you, at all. Other things to worry about in life, like....leprachauns.
As others have already said, Blizzard know how to milk the cow.
Having said that, premium services are just that, premium, if you don't want to pay extra for it then don't, simple as that really. I don't agree with what Blizzard are doing, cash shop, premium services etc on top of a monthly fee but end of the day they have the subscription numbers and probably the proof that they aren't losing many people to other mmo's, so makes sense from a business point of view doing this.
If only 5% of there (supposed) 12 million sub base pay £9.99 for the service then that's just under £6million into Blizzards coffers, now if you were in business yourself wouldn't you say this is just too good to pass up :P (I don't know the price they will offer the service at so the £9.99 is a hyperthetical number).