So wait, the Hackers are doing people a favor by publishing their data because if they did not someone else would?
This is not a war and there is no collateral damage.
There is just illegal activity.
Not a favour no, but they ARE making sure companies know the image and monetary risks involved with not protecting your customers' information properly.
And of course it's illegal activity, but you can't just cry "Illegal Activity" and leave it at that. You gotta think about the repercussions this has not only on those directly affected but also the public and industry.
This is a wakeup call to all those companies (not just Sony) that their network security should be just as good if not better than their real world security. It's not 1996 anymore, the Internet is just as srs bzns as real life now and companies need to act accordingly.
Originally posted by Malickie
No I'm not joking, as the primary victims are those who had nothing to do with Sony corp. Sony will just do as they did with the rest of these incidents, patch up and go on with business. For those who had their Info stolen it's a completely different story. Their potential nightmare is just begining.
The message they're sending is one of bullshit principle. There are responsible means to reach their goal, their choice is one of criminal behavior, it's also morally bankrupt.
Your argument is as bad as those who attempt to justify theft through piracy. Do it if you feel you must, but don't try and make your crimes sound heroic.
Again, the customers affected are not the primary victims, they are secondary victims. The attack wasn't targeted towards customers, it was targeted at Sony through the customers.
I am not trying to make these people sound heroic, nor am I justifying their actions. What they did IS a crime and it WILL affect many innocent people.
HOWEVER, they are not the only ones at fault as you seem to imply. This couldn't have happened in the first place if Sony had had security in the first place.
I'm sorry, but Sony has been known as a pretty shady company for a long while now. If you actually thought your information was safe with them, it is just as much your fault as it is Sony's and the hackers fault. Sometimes it takes something like this to show people what really is going on. Some people get hurt, but it's better that Sony crashes and burns for this and isn't able to do it to 10 million people the next time around.
Should the hackers be punished? Yes, I believe so. Should Sony die? Yes, I believe so.
Sony should step up theire game get the FBI locate that mofos and get them in jail. I would even call bounty hunts for such low lifes.
lol really hackers low lifes wel at least they know how to hack and not get caught only stupid hackers get caught smart ones dont. i for one dont care what hackers do its the interent cant stop em theres to many out there.. welcome to the gate way to the internet cant stop em have to learn to live with em :P. my account got hacked i could care less i delt with it already and moving on.
Again, the customers affected are not the primary victims, they are secondary victims. The attack wasn't targeted towards customers, it was targeted at Sony through the customers.
I am not trying to make these people sound heroic, nor am I justifying their actions. What they did IS a crime and it WILL affect many innocent people.
HOWEVER, they are not the only ones at fault as you seem to imply. This couldn't have happened in the first place if Sony had had security in the first place.
The fact that this is happening to Sony
The innocent are the important victims is the point I was making, that has to be obvious. Second how in anyway did I imply who is at fault? I made no mention of my opinion on the matter.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm sorry, but Sony has been known as a pretty shady company for a long while now. If you actually thought your information was safe with them, it is just as much your fault as it is Sony's and the hackers fault. Sometimes it takes something like this to show people what really is going on. Some people get hurt, but it's better that Sony crashes and burns for this and isn't able to do it to 10 million people the next time around.
Should the hackers be punished? Yes, I believe so. Should Sony die? Yes, I believe so.
So, tell me, what has Sony done that it deserves to be punished?
I mean, I myself can imagine the pharmaceutical companies who did tests with experimental drugs and medicines to Africans without their knowledge, or those banks that were responsible for the global economic crisis and that afterwards went on to continue the same practics and company culture. Or the oil companies that went far in their dealings with corrupt regimes to keep the oil coming. All those I could imagine deserve to be punished.
Could you give the list of things that Sony has done that deserves justified punishment up to the point that a lot of posters here are even gleeful and happy about Sony's embarassment and damage done to it, no matter if innocent bystanders suffer loss in the process? Even more, that some people even think that those victims deserved it for using products of Sony?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Lot of people loves soe's games and are getting hurt by those hackers. I hope they get those bastards,put them in jail and throw away the key.
It also seems sony have a poor security system in place so its dumb to even give any private info to that company. Hackers have free REIGN at sony data centre with your data to pick it up and do however they pleased.
Hackers say that they have poor security. Ive read this at huffington post website.
I'm sorry, but Sony has been known as a pretty shady company for a long while now. If you actually thought your information was safe with them, it is just as much your fault as it is Sony's and the hackers fault. Sometimes it takes something like this to show people what really is going on. Some people get hurt, but it's better that Sony crashes and burns for this and isn't able to do it to 10 million people the next time around.
Should the hackers be punished? Yes, I believe so. Should Sony die? Yes, I believe so.
So, tell me, what has Sony done that it deserves to be punished?
I mean, I myself can imagine the pharmaceutical companies who did tests with experimental drugs and medicines to Africans without their knowledge, or those banks that were responsible for the global economic crisis and that afterwards went on to continue the same practics and company culture. Or the oil companies that went far in their dealings with corrupt regimes to keep the oil coming. All those I could imagine deserve to be punished.
Could you give the list of things that Sony has done that deserves justified punishment up to the point that a lot of posters here are even gleeful and happy about Sony's embarassment and damage done to it, no matter if innocent bystanders suffer loss in the process? Even more, that some people even think that those victims deserved it for using products of Sony?
Maybe some company don't want sony as competitor and hire hackers to discredit sony who knows?
Or just evil criminals who only want customers info to use for criminal activities?
But sony deserve dont see why.
Maybe its all a major plot to show how poorly these companys protect your private intrest and only and shows how companys like sony are only intrested in your money then they deserve this.
I'm sorry, but Sony has been known as a pretty shady company for a long while now. If you actually thought your information was safe with them, it is just as much your fault as it is Sony's and the hackers fault. Sometimes it takes something like this to show people what really is going on. Some people get hurt, but it's better that Sony crashes and burns for this and isn't able to do it to 10 million people the next time around.
Should the hackers be punished? Yes, I believe so. Should Sony die? Yes, I believe so.
So, tell me, what has Sony done that it deserves to be punished?
I mean, I myself can imagine the pharmaceutical companies who did tests with experimental drugs and medicines to Africans without their knowledge, or those banks that were responsible for the global economic crisis and that afterwards went on to continue the same practics and company culture. Or the oil companies that went far in their dealings with corrupt regimes to keep the oil coming. All those I could imagine deserve to be punished.
Could you give the list of things that Sony has done that deserves justified punishment up to the point that a lot of posters here are even gleeful and happy about Sony's embarassment and damage done to it, no matter if innocent bystanders suffer loss in the process? Even more, that some people even think that those victims deserved it for using products of Sony?
Again, as I said in my PM response to you, you are convienently misreading posts. In my post as well in those of others here we have expressed sympathy for those customers who have suffered. One can express sympathy but also note that those affected should have known something like this could/would happen to Sony/SOE of all folks. Especially with their MMO history. They most certainly have pissed some people off such that they would do this kind of thing to them (Sony/SOE).
And I don't remember reading (may have missed it) a post where it was said the customers derserved it. I've only seen where folks said Sony/SOE deserved to get hacked. As I tried to point out in my initial response (which it seems in the passion of the moment that part was passed over) it was a logical thing for those hackers to do if they wanted to hurt Sony/SOE bad. Hurting their customers hurts them.
Now, don't try to force morals into that last statement. Logic has nothing to do with right and wrong. Most here would agree that it was morally wrong. But again, that has nothing to do with if what they did was logically, tactically right to achieve the end result they wanted, which again, was to hurt Sony/SOE. And hurting customers to the point they don't feel safe in doing business with a company will produce that result.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I'm sorry, but Sony has been known as a pretty shady company for a long while now. If you actually thought your information was safe with them, it is just as much your fault as it is Sony's and the hackers fault. Sometimes it takes something like this to show people what really is going on. Some people get hurt, but it's better that Sony crashes and burns for this and isn't able to do it to 10 million people the next time around.
Should the hackers be punished? Yes, I believe so. Should Sony die? Yes, I believe so.
So, tell me, what has Sony done that it deserves to be punished?
I mean, I myself can imagine the pharmaceutical companies who did tests with experimental drugs and medicines to Africans without their knowledge, or those banks that were responsible for the global economic crisis and that afterwards went on to continue the same practics and company culture. Or the oil companies that went far in their dealings with corrupt regimes to keep the oil coming. All those I could imagine deserve to be punished.
Could you give the list of things that Sony has done that deserves justified punishment up to the point that a lot of posters here are even gleeful and happy about Sony's embarassment and damage done to it, no matter if innocent bystanders suffer loss in the process? Even more, that some people even think that those victims deserved it for using products of Sony?
Again, as I said in my PM response to you, you are convienently misreading posts. In my post as well in those of others here we have expressed sympathy for those customers who have suffered. One can express sympathy but also note that those affected should have known something like this could/would happen to Sony/SOE of all folks. Especially with their MMO history. They most certainly have pissed some people off such that they would do this kind of thing to them (Sony/SOE).
And I don't remember reading (may have missed it) a post where it was said the customers derserved it. I've only seen where folks said Sony/SOE deserved to get hacked. As I tried to point out in my initial response (which it seems in the passion of the moment that part was passed over) it was a logical thing for those hackers to do if they wanted to hurt Sony/SOE bad. Hurting their customers hurts them.
Now, don't try to force morals into that last statement. Logic has nothing to do with right and wrong. Most here would agree that it was morally wrong. But again, that has nothing to do with if what they did was logically, tactically right to achieve the end result they wanted, which again, was to hurt Sony/SOE. And hurting customers to the point they don't feel safe in doing business with a company will produce that result.
In my Opinion sony does deserve to go down, and you can read the full post here of why.
The deserve to go down because of chasing after a kid for modifying his own PS3 which he never legally signed any legally binding contract with sony that said he couldn't, they also screwed over many customers, and that is the very short version of the things that sony has done.
Again, as I said in my PM response to you, you are convienently misreading posts. In my post as well in those of others here we have expressed sympathy for those customers who have suffered. One can express sympathy but also note that those affected should have known something like this could/would happen to Sony/SOE of all folks. Especially with their MMO history. They most certainly have pissed some people off such that they would do this kind of thing to them (Sony/SOE).
And I don't remember reading (may have missed it) a post where it was said the customers derserved it. 1)
I've only seen where folks said Sony/SOE deserved to get hacked. As I tried to point out in my initial response (which it seems in the passion of the moment that part was passed over) it was a logical thing for those hackers to do if they wanted to hurt Sony/SOE bad. Hurting their customers hurts them.
Now, don't try to force morals into that last statement. Logic has nothing to do with right and wrong. Most here would agree that it was morally wrong. But again, that has nothing to do with if what they did was logically, tactically right to achieve the end result they wanted, which again, was to hurt Sony/SOE. And hurting customers to the point they don't feel safe in doing business with a company will produce that result 2).
1) I'm most definitely not misreading posts, I think I caught the implications quite well.
Originally posted by Belight
Interesting point. Fortunatly for me I'm an asshole who generally hates people and am laughing at this whole thing.
I cana gree that anyone who uses the leaked info to charge soemthing to someone elses account is a thief. But I dunno, I just don't seem to care.
I guess I view this as more of a wake up call for peopel to be safe with their info and to not just trust and hand over their information to corporations. Again I'm a dick with no sympathy.
Originally posted by Khalathwyr
That said I'm a SWG vet that doesn't spend my ever day wishing for bad stuff to happen but I certainly don't feel bad about things like this happening to Sony/SOE. I feel bad for the people whose information got put out there, but the other part of me says not to feel too bad as many (of which I was one) have pointed out terrible of a company this is to do business with. It's like telling someone not to play Russian Roulette with a .44 Magnum, and they ignore you anyway. Well, once they shoot their toe off, are you gonna feel bad? I wouldn't.
Just a few examples, there were more people who said similar things. So, because you had a bad experience because they diminished your gaming fun when they changed a game that was precious to you, suddenly it's such a bad company that it deserves to be punished and everyone that did business with them deserves it too, because it apparently is their own fault? What's next? Funcom? Or EA, Activision, Cryptic or NCSoft?
2) It has much in common with the mindset of a terrorist: there are no real innocents if they're linked to the target, and if it'll damage the target by hurting bystanders, then that's how it has to be. It's how they justified killing people with the 9/11 attacks, because it'd hurt their target, the US as government and nation. And yes, I went so far to make that comparison. Even if no one is killed, the mentality, a 'the end justifies any means' mindset is the same.
Also, so far all the arguments I've read why Sony deserved it by the people cheering those hackers on come down to this:
'they diminished my gaming fun when they made changes in the game I loved to play, and that's why they deserve to be destroyed even if the means is damaging a million+ of bystanders in the process'
Wow. There are simply no words to describe that kind of mentality.
I can only say that if that's the kind of mentality that is dominant in some groups of MMO gamers, then I hope there won't be many of those on the servers I play on. It's certainly a hell of a lot more vindictive and negative and a league away from the vibe and mindset of the MMO gamers of the very first years of MMO gaming, at least on the servers I played on.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
OK this is becoming ridiculous. But honestly was to expect, if their security was that bad on such a huge complexe as they have. It really is the error they should never have made, to let it decade, it will cost them a ton now to come back to a proper security level; and they will be breachable for months ahead, so be prepare to have those "news" for a long time. The worst is when you think in fact most companies have also as bad security system.
Honeslty i will never again put my real info. I'm somehow confident with the banking system, but the rest i think i'll just skip now.
Many people here seem to be missing the REAL impact of this. Look, what happens after every attempted terrorist attacks? The government TIGHTENS control. Some have rationalized this as a necessary for saving lifes? Really? More people die each year in the US from car accidents and guns than all that died in terrorist attacks through the last 20 years. This has never been about people, but about the impact of "fear of flying" on the US economy as a whole. If they have to sexually grope you before letting you on the plane, they are more than happy to do it, because intrusive random searches gives the rest of the "majority" a sense of safety (real vs imagined is irrelevant).
The internet isn't a right. It isn't a force unstoppable. Some people think that the internet is about "people power" vs the big guy. Yes, you can unplug the internet. For that matter the government can , should it choses, apply a pulse powerful enough to fry all our computers. They will not do this for the simple reason that the internet not only provide a medium of soft control and tracking, but also generate massive financial returns. It is a golden money making goose. They will not kill it and they will let us play in the pin freely, but with tight invisible monitoring. However, if a bunch of geeks decide to threaten the economic safety of the internet, the government will step in and TIGHTEN control. We can all moan on cyber space about it, but who is going to stand against armed men in their thousands with license to shoot?
As far as Sony, hackers always think they are immune, and most get away with intrusion and some minor vandalism. However, after Wikileak, the governments around the world are not in the mood to play nice (especially the US). Now with the impact on Sony causing damages in the hundreds of millions and affecting millions of people that is a whole other game ball. Sony isn't only a multi-billion dollar coporation, but an important symbol of Japanese forward economical presence. That a bunch of geeks with a sense of entitlement would threaten its financial security will not be tolerated.
Forget the news, you will not see there the real reply from Sony on the Internet, only their public relation releases. I bet someone in the head office has been thinking that if they were to take a fraction of the loss they incurred, lets say 25 millions, that would go a long way to hiring a bunch of high end security experts to track these clowns and then pay for a bunch of Yakuza to defend the honor of their country Another 25 millions to the right American politican pockets in secret deal and a bill will be passed to make this a high risk proposition for future generation of hackers. Other companies will chip in to ensure they don't become the other Sony.
People with inflated sense of invisibility and entitlement or ideology can hide behind their computer and spout whatever anti-government / anti-corporation schtick they want. But, once you begin to threaten the money train, excpet the hammer to descend without mercy and not necessarily always in full day light...
His point still stands, this isn't about Karma, there are real victims here and they are not Sony. It really makes no logical sense to be focusing so much on them. Unless you really don't give a damn about the real issue here. I think most people got it the first time, there were things Sony did wrong. You're just beating a dead horse going on and on about it.
At least an earlier poster was man enough to say the truth "he doesn't give a damn about the victims, he finds it hilarious." Why not just say you hate Sony/SOE and be done with it? It's obvious that's what your posts are about.
You are joking right? The primary victim here is Sony, with customers affected being collateral damage necessary to hurt Sony.
Sony finds itself affected at a magnitude higher than any customer will be.
The real issue here is NOT the customers affected, it's the message these hackers are sending not only Sony, but more importantly, the public and other companies.
Like they said themselves, they don't care about the customers one way or another.
Necessary? There are other ways without spilling customers personal information all over internet. For the customers in question, the 'real issue' is their personal information, not Sony.
You can say that Sony doesnt care about the customers, but apparently the hackers (or crackers whatever) dont care about them either. Actually they are worse, they put customers in harms way on purpose.
Anyone who defends hackers for spilling innocent user's personal information on the street is an idiot.
And anyone who thinks its the users fault because they gave a corporation their personal information, is an idiot. It is almost impossible to NOT trust some organisation with your personal information nowadays. It has become a part of life.
So only two parties to blame here. The hackers and in this case Sony Pictures.
you're making the argument that hackers are worst than gaming companies...yeah. you're winning this one. I don't think that's the topic though.
for betterment of the industry as a whole, a few million customers have to be hurt.
not necesary, but ACCEPTABLE is my oppinion.
You say yourself that its not necessary . This means there are other ways, so why do it? You could just as well send the hacked list to a respected news organisation. So you can trust them to handle the information carefully.
People are defending the hacker's way of working in this thread and that has to stop. I agree that they can do good work by showing vulnerabilities but it NEVER has to go at the cost of innocent customers. I always doubt the hackers' real motive if they are so careless with the stolen data. Or they are just stupid and dont realise that they are turning their anger at the customers without realising it.
In my opinion : The moment you retrieve the hacked information in such a situation you become responsible for it's security. If you then are as careless with it as you accuse the company of, you are not only hypocrite but also not fit to do this.
not accidents necesarily but crashes yes. test dummies for example are created exactly with the purpose of being in car crashes.
car crashes on purpose, mind you.
there's nothing 'accidental' about those car crashes jsut like there's nothing acciental about the Sony event. Its all done with explicit intention. your comparison is slightly flawed. a car accient is...accidental. a car crash may or may not be accidental. and there are many intentional car crashes. Just not with people in them most of the times.
sooo "for the betterment of industry, more car CRASHES must occur". That's how safety testing is done. by crashing lots of cars at different speeds and angles.
I can apply that logic to any other industry and it'll still look bad.
For the betterment of the industry, more bank robbery should occur.
For the betterment of the industry, more fraud should occur.
etc etc.
Supporting and having an ideal is one thing, deliberately causing pain to innocent people is another.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
So, tell me, what has Sony done that it deserves to be punished?
You seriously asked that question?
They ignored warnings months ago They store passwords in hash format (not encrypted) They stored an unused database server online and out in the open They said PC SOE wasn't affected but turned out it was They didn't patch down all of their online servers (and forgot to take down a few during downtime)
the list goes on, they're negligent at most and has very poor business practice- maybe that's why they've been laying off lots.
Originally posted by m0lly Originally posted by Belight It's karma for what they did to SWG... But seriously, no encription for millions of user's info...... Nice.
how long will peeps grudge over star war galaxies is beyond me , give it a rest already.
but yeah remove data from this compnay and for future concole is not gona be ps4 for me thanks bye! It's been said before, if it were people with a grudge against SWG, this would've happened years ago (like 2005-2006). I don't think these attacks has anything to do with SWG at all.
I think it's pretty obvious it won't stop. Not until these guys are caught anyway.
I was referring to the PSN/SOE breach. I didn't see many posting about the victims in that situation, only the holder of said account info (Sony), TBH I find it rather distasteful. Maybe I'm being harsh with that, but to me it seems people are championing what went down. Nothing seems right about that to me.
There are responsible ways to hurt a company, this isn't one of them.
I don't think this is a case of some small group of people attacking sony, but lots of different groups. Word has spread that Sonys network wasn't properly secured and is easy pickings, so hackers are focusing on it.
I don't really see people cheering on the hackers for being standup people and the people complaining about the soe hack are the victoms. Sure people are not in the least bit surprised this happened to SOE.
It isn't like SOE has been a company that puts their customers care as a high priority or that they go out of their way to make good relations with their customers. That same level of care is showing through in their lack of concern for their security of their customers personal information. The only reason we are victoms in this situation is because Sony/SOE was not concerned enough to do even basic level security on their network. They have shown almost complete disregard for security and continue to run half assed. As if staying online is more important than fixing their problems, but again that is something they have historically done.
Hopefully someone will catch the hackers and then we can focus some aggression towards them.
The sliver lining here is that now companies, or atleast Sony, will take their server security more seriously like they should. Yes, releasing private information to the public is a bummer, but remember that Sony had a chance to improve their security a year ago when the hackers had discovered the weaknessess and informed Sony about them. They just didn't listen then, I bet they listen now.
Another thing is that while other companies hired crackers to improve the security of their systems, Sony went on a manhunt. Hackers lashed out in response and I bet Sony is regretting that decision by now.
Many posters are guilty of over-dramatizing this matter. This is nothing as serious as stealing a baby and then watching it drown for instance. Not even close.
In short, hackers are not the devil and Sony is definitely not the victim here. I see only good coming out of this in the future - although I don't care if Sony keels over or not.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Comments
Not a favour no, but they ARE making sure companies know the image and monetary risks involved with not protecting your customers' information properly.
And of course it's illegal activity, but you can't just cry "Illegal Activity" and leave it at that. You gotta think about the repercussions this has not only on those directly affected but also the public and industry.
This is a wakeup call to all those companies (not just Sony) that their network security should be just as good if not better than their real world security. It's not 1996 anymore, the Internet is just as srs bzns as real life now and companies need to act accordingly.
Again, the customers affected are not the primary victims, they are secondary victims. The attack wasn't targeted towards customers, it was targeted at Sony through the customers.
I am not trying to make these people sound heroic, nor am I justifying their actions. What they did IS a crime and it WILL affect many innocent people.
HOWEVER, they are not the only ones at fault as you seem to imply. This couldn't have happened in the first place if Sony had had security in the first place.
The fact that this is happening to Sony
They lost a lot last year and will probably lose more money this year. The future looks grim for sony.
I'm sorry, but Sony has been known as a pretty shady company for a long while now. If you actually thought your information was safe with them, it is just as much your fault as it is Sony's and the hackers fault. Sometimes it takes something like this to show people what really is going on. Some people get hurt, but it's better that Sony crashes and burns for this and isn't able to do it to 10 million people the next time around.
Should the hackers be punished? Yes, I believe so. Should Sony die? Yes, I believe so.
lol really hackers low lifes wel at least they know how to hack and not get caught only stupid hackers get caught smart ones dont. i for one dont care what hackers do its the interent cant stop em theres to many out there.. welcome to the gate way to the internet cant stop em have to learn to live with em :P. my account got hacked i could care less i delt with it already and moving on.
.....
The innocent are the important victims is the point I was making, that has to be obvious. Second how in anyway did I imply who is at fault? I made no mention of my opinion on the matter.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So, tell me, what has Sony done that it deserves to be punished?
I mean, I myself can imagine the pharmaceutical companies who did tests with experimental drugs and medicines to Africans without their knowledge, or those banks that were responsible for the global economic crisis and that afterwards went on to continue the same practics and company culture. Or the oil companies that went far in their dealings with corrupt regimes to keep the oil coming. All those I could imagine deserve to be punished.
Could you give the list of things that Sony has done that deserves justified punishment up to the point that a lot of posters here are even gleeful and happy about Sony's embarassment and damage done to it, no matter if innocent bystanders suffer loss in the process? Even more, that some people even think that those victims deserved it for using products of Sony?
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It also seems sony have a poor security system in place so its dumb to even give any private info to that company. Hackers have free REIGN at sony data centre with your data to pick it up and do however they pleased.
Hackers say that they have poor security. Ive read this at huffington post website.
Maybe some company don't want sony as competitor and hire hackers to discredit sony who knows?
Or just evil criminals who only want customers info to use for criminal activities?
But sony deserve dont see why.
Maybe its all a major plot to show how poorly these companys protect your private intrest and only and shows how companys like sony are only intrested in your money then they deserve this.
Again, as I said in my PM response to you, you are convienently misreading posts. In my post as well in those of others here we have expressed sympathy for those customers who have suffered. One can express sympathy but also note that those affected should have known something like this could/would happen to Sony/SOE of all folks. Especially with their MMO history. They most certainly have pissed some people off such that they would do this kind of thing to them (Sony/SOE).
And I don't remember reading (may have missed it) a post where it was said the customers derserved it. I've only seen where folks said Sony/SOE deserved to get hacked. As I tried to point out in my initial response (which it seems in the passion of the moment that part was passed over) it was a logical thing for those hackers to do if they wanted to hurt Sony/SOE bad. Hurting their customers hurts them.
Now, don't try to force morals into that last statement. Logic has nothing to do with right and wrong. Most here would agree that it was morally wrong. But again, that has nothing to do with if what they did was logically, tactically right to achieve the end result they wanted, which again, was to hurt Sony/SOE. And hurting customers to the point they don't feel safe in doing business with a company will produce that result.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
In my Opinion sony does deserve to go down, and you can read the full post here of why.
http://pastebin.com/MNUftZmt
The deserve to go down because of chasing after a kid for modifying his own PS3 which he never legally signed any legally binding contract with sony that said he couldn't, they also screwed over many customers, and that is the very short version of the things that sony has done.
Just FYI I support the EFF, http://www.eff.org/action
We the people have rights, and some people just try to shut us up but it doesn't work now does it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PDhjNF9eUQ Take this for example.
Rich companies mean nothing, and you all can go broke just as fast if you loose a lot of its player base which no doubt sony already has.
Remember EQ and SWG.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
1) I'm most definitely not misreading posts, I think I caught the implications quite well.
Just a few examples, there were more people who said similar things. So, because you had a bad experience because they diminished your gaming fun when they changed a game that was precious to you, suddenly it's such a bad company that it deserves to be punished and everyone that did business with them deserves it too, because it apparently is their own fault? What's next? Funcom? Or EA, Activision, Cryptic or NCSoft?
2) It has much in common with the mindset of a terrorist: there are no real innocents if they're linked to the target, and if it'll damage the target by hurting bystanders, then that's how it has to be. It's how they justified killing people with the 9/11 attacks, because it'd hurt their target, the US as government and nation. And yes, I went so far to make that comparison. Even if no one is killed, the mentality, a 'the end justifies any means' mindset is the same.
Also, so far all the arguments I've read why Sony deserved it by the people cheering those hackers on come down to this:
'they diminished my gaming fun when they made changes in the game I loved to play, and that's why they deserve to be destroyed even if the means is damaging a million+ of bystanders in the process'
Wow. There are simply no words to describe that kind of mentality.
I can only say that if that's the kind of mentality that is dominant in some groups of MMO gamers, then I hope there won't be many of those on the servers I play on. It's certainly a hell of a lot more vindictive and negative and a league away from the vibe and mindset of the MMO gamers of the very first years of MMO gaming, at least on the servers I played on.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
OK this is becoming ridiculous. But honestly was to expect, if their security was that bad on such a huge complexe as they have. It really is the error they should never have made, to let it decade, it will cost them a ton now to come back to a proper security level; and they will be breachable for months ahead, so be prepare to have those "news" for a long time. The worst is when you think in fact most companies have also as bad security system.
Honeslty i will never again put my real info. I'm somehow confident with the banking system, but the rest i think i'll just skip now.
Many people here seem to be missing the REAL impact of this. Look, what happens after every attempted terrorist attacks? The government TIGHTENS control. Some have rationalized this as a necessary for saving lifes? Really? More people die each year in the US from car accidents and guns than all that died in terrorist attacks through the last 20 years. This has never been about people, but about the impact of "fear of flying" on the US economy as a whole. If they have to sexually grope you before letting you on the plane, they are more than happy to do it, because intrusive random searches gives the rest of the "majority" a sense of safety (real vs imagined is irrelevant).
The internet isn't a right. It isn't a force unstoppable. Some people think that the internet is about "people power" vs the big guy. Yes, you can unplug the internet. For that matter the government can , should it choses, apply a pulse powerful enough to fry all our computers. They will not do this for the simple reason that the internet not only provide a medium of soft control and tracking, but also generate massive financial returns. It is a golden money making goose. They will not kill it and they will let us play in the pin freely, but with tight invisible monitoring. However, if a bunch of geeks decide to threaten the economic safety of the internet, the government will step in and TIGHTEN control. We can all moan on cyber space about it, but who is going to stand against armed men in their thousands with license to shoot?
As far as Sony, hackers always think they are immune, and most get away with intrusion and some minor vandalism. However, after Wikileak, the governments around the world are not in the mood to play nice (especially the US). Now with the impact on Sony causing damages in the hundreds of millions and affecting millions of people that is a whole other game ball. Sony isn't only a multi-billion dollar coporation, but an important symbol of Japanese forward economical presence. That a bunch of geeks with a sense of entitlement would threaten its financial security will not be tolerated.
Forget the news, you will not see there the real reply from Sony on the Internet, only their public relation releases. I bet someone in the head office has been thinking that if they were to take a fraction of the loss they incurred, lets say 25 millions, that would go a long way to hiring a bunch of high end security experts to track these clowns and then pay for a bunch of Yakuza to defend the honor of their country
Another 25 millions to the right American politican pockets in secret deal and a bill will be passed to make this a high risk proposition for future generation of hackers. Other companies will chip in to ensure they don't become the other Sony.
People with inflated sense of invisibility and entitlement or ideology can hide behind their computer and spout whatever anti-government / anti-corporation schtick they want. But, once you begin to threaten the money train, excpet the hammer to descend without mercy and not necessarily always in full day light...
how long will peeps grudge over star war galaxies is beyond me , give it a rest already.
but yeah remove data from this compnay and for future concole is not gona be ps4 for me thanks bye!
Necessary? There are other ways without spilling customers personal information all over internet. For the customers in question, the 'real issue' is their personal information, not Sony.
You can say that Sony doesnt care about the customers, but apparently the hackers (or crackers whatever) dont care about them either. Actually they are worse, they put customers in harms way on purpose.
Anyone who defends hackers for spilling innocent user's personal information on the street is an idiot.
And anyone who thinks its the users fault because they gave a corporation their personal information, is an idiot. It is almost impossible to NOT trust some organisation with your personal information nowadays. It has become a part of life.
So only two parties to blame here. The hackers and in this case Sony Pictures.
You say yourself that its not necessary . This means there are other ways, so why do it? You could just as well send the hacked list to a respected news organisation. So you can trust them to handle the information carefully.
People are defending the hacker's way of working in this thread and that has to stop. I agree that they can do good work by showing vulnerabilities but it NEVER has to go at the cost of innocent customers. I always doubt the hackers' real motive if they are so careless with the stolen data. Or they are just stupid and dont realise that they are turning their anger at the customers without realising it.
In my opinion : The moment you retrieve the hacked information in such a situation you become responsible for it's security. If you then are as careless with it as you accuse the company of, you are not only hypocrite but also not fit to do this.
most stupid thing i have ever done in my life was making a account at sony.
while i did enjoy dc universe FOR A FEW DAYS. i guess it is also time for me to make a few calls to get my details removed from that company
Wow.. just wow..
That is some insane flawed logic there.
If I do a similar bizzaro logic on the automotive industry I get this,
For the betterment of the industry as a whole 'more car accidents have to occur'
Not sure if you want to keep advocating your stance.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I can apply that logic to any other industry and it'll still look bad.
For the betterment of the industry, more bank robbery should occur.
For the betterment of the industry, more fraud should occur.
etc etc.
Supporting and having an ideal is one thing, deliberately causing pain to innocent people is another.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
They ignored warnings months ago
They store passwords in hash format (not encrypted)
They stored an unused database server online and out in the open
They said PC SOE wasn't affected but turned out it was
They didn't patch down all of their online servers (and forgot to take down a few during downtime)
the list goes on, they're negligent at most and has very poor business practice- maybe that's why they've been laying off lots.
but yeah remove data from this compnay and for future concole is not gona be ps4 for me thanks bye!
It's been said before, if it were people with a grudge against SWG, this would've happened years ago (like 2005-2006). I don't think these attacks has anything to do with SWG at all.
/agree
I don't think this is a case of some small group of people attacking sony, but lots of different groups. Word has spread that Sonys network wasn't properly secured and is easy pickings, so hackers are focusing on it.
I don't really see people cheering on the hackers for being standup people and the people complaining about the soe hack are the victoms. Sure people are not in the least bit surprised this happened to SOE.
It isn't like SOE has been a company that puts their customers care as a high priority or that they go out of their way to make good relations with their customers. That same level of care is showing through in their lack of concern for their security of their customers personal information. The only reason we are victoms in this situation is because Sony/SOE was not concerned enough to do even basic level security on their network. They have shown almost complete disregard for security and continue to run half assed. As if staying online is more important than fixing their problems, but again that is something they have historically done.
Hopefully someone will catch the hackers and then we can focus some aggression towards them.
The sliver lining here is that now companies, or atleast Sony, will take their server security more seriously like they should. Yes, releasing private information to the public is a bummer, but remember that Sony had a chance to improve their security a year ago when the hackers had discovered the weaknessess and informed Sony about them. They just didn't listen then, I bet they listen now.
Another thing is that while other companies hired crackers to improve the security of their systems, Sony went on a manhunt. Hackers lashed out in response and I bet Sony is regretting that decision by now.
Many posters are guilty of over-dramatizing this matter. This is nothing as serious as stealing a baby and then watching it drown for instance. Not even close.
In short, hackers are not the devil and Sony is definitely not the victim here. I see only good coming out of this in the future - although I don't care if Sony keels over or not.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky