Star Wars: The Old Republic: Advanced Classes Interview

SBFord · June 2011

MMORPG.com Industry Relations Manager Garrett Fuller has a treat for fans of Star Wars: The Old Republic in the form of our exclusive interview with Principle Lead Combat Designer Georg Zoeller. Advanced Classes are the topic of the discussion and it's certainly one you will not want to miss! Keep reading!

The Bounty Hunter has a similar design with the Mercenary and Powertech, can you tell us about skills that define the offense and defense of these two specializations?

For starters, the Mercenary gets to dual wield blaster pistols, giving that Advanced Class a slight edge in damage output over the Powertech, which gets access to a Shield Generator, a definite plus on the survival / defensive side of things. The Bounty Hunter Advanced Classes offer a lot of cool gadgetry in their skill trees, so depending on the player’s skill point distribution, there’s a huge difference in how combat plays and looks between characters

Read more of Garrett Fuller's Star Wars: The Old Republic Advanced Classes Interview.

Kalfer · June 2011

Am I the only one who is calling total BS on their smoke and mirror explanations? To answer the last question related to their ability to balance classes, the response is all over the place, and more, a mention of things you would expect, like; "Visually, each of the classes has their own set of animations, sounds, visual effects and appearance" < - Well duh.

I think this is way too much for them. It was a bad choice to make so many classes(doubled with specialization). I doubt the uniqueness and quality of each one will suffice. I would rather have 3 great classes with great branching sub classes, than 6 mediocre classes with 12 bad specializations(or whatever). Balancing is just going to be harder. Bioware is horrible, even in their single player games at balancing. As good as many of them are, Balancing has always been a bad part of their products.

We always forgive them because their stories and characters make it worth it, but the end game PvP won't hold it up. Brace for impact my friends. This is not Biowares fault either. Just look at their skills. It will not look like a epic star wars battles, but like a circus fest. you always saw one smuggler or a one bounty hunter at a time. It will look lame to have these rare sneaky characters in droves. Not even talking about jedis.

"To ensure faction balance, each Republic class has it's 'nemesis' on the Empire side, balanced for equal access in utility, mitigation and damage potential, etc."

< - To me this sounds like they are compromising integrity. We all remember the Shaman/Paladin relationship and the crap that followed. When one was nerfed the other had to be adjusted even if nothing was wrong, and this was even more stupid as they were to different classes that worked in different ways. Eventually they become more and more the same, and got the same skills with different names. What was the point? To balance it out they become more copy pasted versions of each other, until Burning Crusade gave it to the opposing faction, but by then it was too late.

Or at least until Paladins following 5-6 major class redesigns.

Fdzzaigl · June 2011

Originally posted by Kalfer
Am I the only one who is calling total BS on their smoke and mirror explanations? To answer the last question related to their ability to balance classes, the response is all over the place, and more, a mention of things you would expect, like; "Visually, each of the classes has their own set of animations, sounds, visual effects and appearance" < - Well duh.

I think this is way too much for them. It was a bad choice to make so many classes(doubled with specialization). I doubt the uniqueness and quality of each one will suffice. I would rather have 3 great classes with great branching sub classes, than 6 mediocre classes with 12 bad specializations(or whatever). Balancing is just going to be harder. Bioware is horrible, even in their single player games at balancing. As good as many of them are, Balancing has always been a bad part of their products.

We always forgive them because their stories and characters make it worth it, but the end game PvP won't hold it up. Brace for impact my friends. This is not Biowares fault either. Just look at their skills. It will not look like a epic star wars battles, but like a circus fest. you always saw one smuggler or a one bounty hunter at a time. It will look lame to have these rare sneaky characters in droves. Not even talking about jedis.

"To ensure faction balance, each Republic class has it's 'nemesis' on the Empire side, balanced for equal access in utility, mitigation and damage potential, etc."

< - To me this sounds like they are compromising integrity. We all remember the Shaman/Paladin relationship and the crap that followed. When one was nerfed the other had to be adjusted even if nothing was wrong, and this was even more stupid as they were to different classes that worked in different ways. Eventually they become more and more the same, and got the same skills with different names. What was the point? To balance it out they become more copy pasted versions of each other, until Burning Crusade gave it to the opposing faction, but by then it was too late.

Or at least until Paladins following 5-6 major class redesigns.

You started off ok, then went straight into the mist making baseless assumptions.

It's easy to read between the lines: yes those classes on both sides will be mirrors in the sense that they do basically the same things. But no they're not going to play exactly the same way (and this is easy to see in the case of Troopers& BH's who have different resource management).

People will always complain about balance, always, them making mirrored roles makes it easier for them to balance it out, not harder (unlike shamans / paladins), your comments on endgame PvP are simply without basis.

alancode · June 2011

Could have given us a picture of each advanced class. Really.

alancode · June 2011

*advanced class skill tree

Mikkhail · June 2011

I just want the damn game already so that I can draw my own conclusions! :

HUGA · June 2011

Originally posted by Mikkhail

I just want the damn game already so that I can draw my own conclusions! :

You know I heard that.

Hopscotch73 · June 2011

Is it just me, or does it seem from that that some classes are more finalized than others?

Lots of info and specific abilities for some classes and a less detailed overview for others.

Great read though.

Kalfer · June 2011

Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

Originally posted by Kalfer

Am I the only one who is calling total BS on their smoke and mirror explanations? To answer the last question related to their ability to balance classes, the response is all over the place, and more, a mention of things you would expect, like; "Visually, each of the classes has their own set of animations, sounds, visual effects and appearance" < - Well duh.

I think this is way too much for them. It was a bad choice to make so many classes(doubled with specialization). I doubt the uniqueness and quality of each one will suffice. I would rather have 3 great classes with great branching sub classes, than 6 mediocre classes with 12 bad specializations(or whatever). Balancing is just going to be harder. Bioware is horrible, even in their single player games at balancing. As good as many of them are, Balancing has always been a bad part of their products.

We always forgive them because their stories and characters make it worth it, but the end game PvP won't hold it up. Brace for impact my friends. This is not Biowares fault either. Just look at their skills. It will not look like a epic star wars battles, but like a circus fest. you always saw one smuggler or a one bounty hunter at a time. It will look lame to have these rare sneaky characters in droves. Not even talking about jedis.

"To ensure faction balance, each Republic class has it's 'nemesis' on the Empire side, balanced for equal access in utility, mitigation and damage potential, etc."

< - To me this sounds like they are compromising integrity. We all remember the Shaman/Paladin relationship and the crap that followed. When one was nerfed the other had to be adjusted even if nothing was wrong, and this was even more stupid as they were to different classes that worked in different ways. Eventually they become more and more the same, and got the same skills with different names. What was the point? To balance it out they become more copy pasted versions of each other, until Burning Crusade gave it to the opposing faction, but by then it was too late.

Or at least until Paladins following 5-6 major class redesigns.

You started off ok, then went straight into the mist making baseless assumptions.

It's easy to read between the lines: yes those classes on both sides will be mirrors in the sense that they do basically the same things. But no they're not going to play exactly the same way (and this is easy to see in the case of Troopers& BH's who have different resource management).

People will always complain about balance, always, them making mirrored roles makes it easier for them to balance it out, not harder (unlike shamans / paladins), your comments on endgame PvP are simply without basis.

Of course everything is speculation. Few of us have even tried the game, none of us have completed it or seen the whole picture. It should be obvious, but I am just talking about the things the way I view them as seen in the article. I'll be happy to be proven wrong later, and don't mind changing my stance on my issues with the games(as I read it).

People are allowed to comment and make their own assumptions and explain their feelings regarding presentations to the media. Nothing constructive will come out of the neutral ground. This is a given. This is self explanatory. People should stop being sensitive and realize that everything is unfounded and IMO, when they haven't played the game. Why going down this route when you instead could comment on the article and how you view it, as that would be more interesting than reviewing what is base and baseless in my interpretation of the article?

Also what are you saying about the mirror classes? You're for it because it makes it easier to balance? But you also said that there will always be whiners about balance, and I agree with this. The old saying; "Keep it simple stupid" should apply here.

Instead what I am seeing here is another developer who thinks its a great idea to have more mediocre, than few really good. If your going to make mirror classes ain't it just fluff? I don't get why anyone would clock up their own game design like that. That's not what a tight well developed RPG is to me at least. Fun comes before balance.

Why not just say screw balance, and center around a few really different classes, instead of making some copy pasted diagram where other classes will suffer due to their faction oppesites failings? The very thing you are advocating here(Or them I guess!?) is the very thing they ended up doing with Shaman and Paladin. And don't you remember how stale they became?

PvE gamers had a right to be annoyed that the classes were being compromised like that. But to be fair Paladin was always a joke from a gameplay perspective, and only became sorta-okay in Cata. Still I think they lost identity.

I read their explanations like that they are intending(for the sake of balance) to mirror their actual classes, and that is not a good thing.

Maaku · June 2011

I fear Jedi's and Sith ameplay will be SUPER similar. Hope the animations will vary at least.

Kebeck · June 2011

If you want multiple factions, if you want PvP in a game.. You need to have balance.. Simple as that.. If we ever see another PvE only game again, the devs won't have to bother balancing the classes, they'll only need to make them effective..

Until then, class balance will be a torture for every developpers.. And a pain for the fans..

sonoggi · June 2011

i dunno i started off really skeptical but the classes look super cool. the thing is, i dont think i'll be playing TOR for the PVP or the balance - i dont think they will know how to do these aspects.

Goldknyght · June 2011

Originally posted by Hopscotch73
Is it just me, or does it seem from that that some classes are more finalized than others?

Lots of info and specific abilities for some classes and a less detailed overview for others.

Great read though.

You might have a point there and if true i would say thats why it hasnt been released yet. Bioware isn't going to let EA let them release crap and tarnish the bioware name.

Nanfoodle · June 2011

Best fan friday yet. Check the link below some good info on AC there as well. This was a great read.

http://www.swtor.com/info/systems/advanced-classes

Comnitus · June 2011

I think BioWare bit off just as much as they can chew when it comes to number of classes and their specializations/progression paths.

As for PvP balance, keep in mind that BioWare leads Mythic Entertainment (under EA), so that's where the mirror class concept is clearly showing.

Talin · June 2011

I am extremely excited about this game, and every team I get more detail into the sub-classes and specializations it really makes me smile - assuming that the balancing of these classes really makes them viable for each "role" they are given access to. That said, I'm not a big end-game person so I expect the overall experience - storyline, character development, levelling, etc, will be my cup of tea.

What does always concern me as mirror classes (as opposed to offering the same classes cross-realm). This makes sense from an IP perspective, but any deviation in gameplay or mechanics will almost always result in an imbalance over time - ESPECIALLY related to PVP. I hope they pay attention to this and invest a lot of time in comparison and reviewing testing feedback over time.

Matticus75 · June 2011

Out of sights out of minds!

Elikal · June 2011

In the immortal words of Homer Simpson:

BOOOORING.

MMO.Maverick · June 2011

Nice detailed description, I didn't read a lot of new things or revelations though.

maccajnr · June 2011

Reminds me of DAoC if I'm not mistaken (it's been so long). Basic class for a few levels, then able to choose the advanced class. Nothing really new here.

ZoeMcCloskey · June 2011

Sounds like then 3 of the 4 base classes for each side have some kind of option to build up as a healer? Says they are not 2nd class citizens, so to me that would imply you could be a Bounty Hunter healer, Agent healer or Inquisitor healer? Reading it right?

All sounding quite good, I went from a zero hype on this a year ago to bouncing off the walls hyped now

Unknown · June 2011

Originally posted by ZoeMcCloskey
Sounds like then 3 of the 4 base classes for each side have some kind of option to build up as a healer? Says they are not 2nd class citizens, so to me that would imply you could be a Bounty Hunter healer, Agent healer or Inquisitor healer? Reading it right?

All sounding quite good, I went from a zero hype on this a year ago to bouncing off the walls hyped now

that is correct. and on the other side: trooper(commando), smuggler(scoundrel) and consular(sage)

there are also the same number of tanking possibilities with bounty hunter(powertech), inqusitor(assassin), and warrior(juggernaut)

the healing ACs for empire are mercenary(BH), operative(agent), and sorcerer(inquistor)

Fdzzaigl · June 2011

Originally posted by Kalfer

Of course everything is speculation. Few of us have even tried the game, none of us have completed it or seen the whole picture. It should be obvious, but I am just talking about the things the way I view them as seen in the article. I'll be happy to be proven wrong later, and don't mind changing my stance on my issues with the games(as I read it).

Good.

People are allowed to comment and make their own assumptions and explain their feelings regarding presentations to the media. Nothing constructive will come out of the neutral ground. This is a given. This is self explanatory. People should stop being sensitive and realize that everything is unfounded and IMO, when they haven't played the game. Why going down this route when you instead could comment on the article and how you view it, as that would be more interesting than reviewing what is base and baseless in my interpretation of the article?
Yes you can, just like I can call you out on it and say it's a bunch of nonsense. I'm not sensitive, you can call me a retard for all I care but I will react when I see something that I find irrational. As for neutral ground, I don't believe in that, I do believe in facts and the constructive value of them. "We always forgive them because their stories and characters make it worth it, but the end game PvP won't hold it up. Brace for impact my friends",

is not neutral, but it's certainly not constructive either.

Also what are you saying about the mirror classes? You're for it because it makes it easier to balance? But you also said that there will always be whiners about balance, and I agree with this. The old saying; "Keep it simple stupid" should apply here.
I'm being realistic, both sides have 4 classes, both sides need all the roles and subroles filled in, so both sides will have mirrors. I've found you another quote: "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction (Einstein)". They recognise their limits and try to make each class play different nonetheless. Which is observable if you look at some of the talents revealed today in their new advanced classes page.

Instead what I am seeing here is another developer who thinks its a great idea to have more mediocre, than few really good. If your going to make mirror classes ain't it just fluff? I don't get why anyone would clock up their own game design like that. That's not what a tight well developed RPG is to me at least. Fun comes before balance.
Except you yourself recognised the glaring problem with Shaman and Paladin, two very different classes availble for only one side each at first.

Why not just say screw balance, and center around a few really different classes, instead of making some copy pasted diagram where other classes will suffer due to their faction oppesites failings? The very thing you are advocating here(Or them I guess!?) is the very thing they ended up doing with Shaman and Paladin. And don't you remember how stale they became?

No, because I still see two different classes in that game. Available to the same faction, in fact I don't even see the relation. And yeah, "Hey lets just screw balance", doesn't seem to be that good an idea to me.

PvE gamers had a right to be annoyed that the classes were being compromised like that. But to be fair Paladin was always a joke from a gameplay perspective, and only became sorta-okay in Cata. Still I think they lost identity.

What does that have to do with mirrored classes? Nothing. Both of them were available for Horde and Alliance since TBC.

I read their explanations like that they are intending(for the sake of balance) to mirror their actual classes, and that is not a good thing.

They are mirrored in their roles. Not necessarily in gameplay.

Soulsemmer · June 2011

Originally posted by Goldknyght

Originally posted by Hopscotch73

Is it just me, or does it seem from that that some classes are more finalized than others?

Lots of info and specific abilities for some classes and a less detailed overview for others.

Great read though.

You might have a point there and if true i would say thats why it hasnt been released yet. Bioware isn't going to let EA let them release crap and tarnish the bioware name.

Dragon Age 2 already did

But yes, most of this was pretty nebulous. I finished it feeling that some classes were much more detailed than others. Still looking forward to it, regardless.