I always tank or heal and have rarely had problems healing. My sole problem with healing has been asshole tanks that feel like, because of the low tanking pop, the group somehow owed them something.
Honestly -- as a tank -- in a pug, if you're doing your best and not causing problems I don't care. If it's an exp party/instance. I don't pay enough attention to complain. I've got mobs to control.
While on tanks though I do get assinine dps that will pull for me no matter how fast I pull (because tanks don't usually have a lot of ranged abilities). Pulling for the tank causes a number of problems especially if it's a multi-pack or a pack that contains casters. Noone has ever had a reason to pull for my warrior in Warcraft but that doesn't mean they didn't.
In FFXI, I really had no issues ever. while tanking or healing. The community was better.
WoW and all of the xeroxes put the responsibility on the tank/healer, and the fun for the dps. No effort is made to teach dps to give a shit because some of them might get offended and cancel their subs.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
This is actually changing.. But I think it just depends on the classes and what they can do.. We all know the general allure the majority of folks have to the ol' ninja assasin role (rogue classes especially ones that dual wield) , but in just about every game I have played the Tanks have the easiest time soloing besides clerics..
The tank classes are almost always recommended for noobs because of their survivability in solo play.. I think where people start to have issues with being the tank is the control you must have over a situation.. Where a "ninja assasin" only has to faceroll the keyboard as much as possible until the creature dies, the tank has to keep said faceroller from getting too much attention from the mob and getting smacked something fierce.. That is sometimes a very difficult task especially in multi-mob situations..
And when a wipe occurs, the most winey and sometimes arrogant idiot in the group, obviously the facerolling ninja assasin, will blame the tank..
I used to play Tanks for the awesome defense, but in games like Rift, being the tank becomes a little more of a hassle because you have to actually be built a very specific way to fit into the holy trinity or people will be even harsher on their criticisms..
Although, Clerics and Rogues can tank in Rift, people will rarely ever let them because it just doesn't "fit"..
What are you talking about? In all the MMOs ive played, which is a lot since WoW came out, it has ALWAYS been the biggest problem to find a healer.
This topic is now about what it is supposed to be about, why dont people like playing healers? Its very funny in pvp, cause its a battle to keep everyone alive
personally ive started only playing rogue/assassins types now, cause theres so much less stress in pvp, and you dont sit in front of your computer shouting everytime you get killed out of the blue, which hardly ever happens as a rogue, good thing i never see that many in rift
tanks, healers, the problem is pretty much the same - relying on the rest of your group.
If you have a group of friends you play with, this is less of an issue because everybody is invested in having fun and not letting the rest of the group down.
If it's strangers then, generally, these people don't care. It's always the tank/healers fault if someone dies. The majority of the group is dps who generally die quickly in higher end encounters.
As a tank, I don't like relying on a bunch of dps to attack the right mobs at the right time.
As a healer, I don't like having to sit there and make sure the tank is actually holding aggro and the dps aren't breaking cc's. I usually just say that if you break a cc, you tank it. I'm not going to heal you.
I mastered healing ages ago and have since found it to be boring because of the way most healers work. I don't feel like going in to any further detail.
I tend to agree with most people here. Too much pressure to play right, perform, protect... When I get home and have time to play I just want to relax and not worry about anyone. If I was tank I would probably not be doing a good job at that point.
Venge
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I tend to agree with most people here. Too much pressure to play right, perform, protect... When I get home and have time to play I just want to relax and not worry about anyone. If I was tank I would probably not be doing a good job at that point.
Venge
I'm playing Rift and specialising as a tank. In Rift you have multiple builds that you can switch between without cost or preamble (you just have to be out of combat).
This means tanking =/= slow leveling.
It also means tanking =/= suck at PvP.
So, if tanking is STILL unpopular in Rift then, as most people said here, it is the "pressure to play right". I think that is the case. There are a tonne of warriors but few wanting to play the tank. Not that I have any hard data or anything.
(I am an oddball - or I am just too old for this genre now - I don't even switch to a DPS build when I'm out leveling because I'm not in a rush.)
The biggest problem with tanking (or healing for that matter) is a lame community.
Most group failures that I've seen are some Rambo (Leeroy) who thinks s/he can solo the place and then gets the party wiped.
Funny thing is, these same people are the ones who scream about the tank-healer not doing their jobs. Pfffft. No thanks... let them find their own tank-healer.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
I think while some other classes have become more forgiving since the ealier games, tanks still have a relatively rough gig and it can be boring, depending on the game. Essentially, you are doing this balance act of taking aggro but not too much aggro if you have other tanks or semi-tanks in the group. If things go south, and you do your job, tanks will pretty much always die. Games with repair expense, seems to be a favorite now, gear is expensive ot get and repair. And well gear itself can be a problem. Caster's might be able to get away with cheap or just okay gear, many tanks can't. It is just, as I mentioned early on, a more unforgiving role... and it's especially "fun" to be a tank ina group with sem-healers and not a full healer or a healer who just doesn't like his or her role.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
MMORPGs have such hot headed quick to anger players.. that any mistake warrants a barrage of insults and asshatery. I never liked tanking because I generally don't like the people I end up grouping with in pickup groups, and hate being responsible for their survival. So I tend to stick with the pure DPS classes, no support, no healing, no tanking.
However i recently starting playing Rift with friends and I've loved every minute of being a tank. But.. I'm grouping with people I know, who are allowing me to learn to be a tank in a safe and fun environment without all the negative energy pick up groups tend to come with.
Tanking is a learned skill beyond just the mechanics of the game. Learning what information you need to monitor, what information is important and when, managing aggro, learning the dungeons layout, how the mobs react, aggro and link ranger, on top of learning the actualy abilities of their class in that particular game. Learning all this stuff is difficult if you've never done it. And the current community atmosphere does not foster a healthy learning environment.
What are you talking about? In all the MMOs ive played, which is a lot since WoW came out, it has ALWAYS been the biggest problem to find a healer.
Well it depend on the game, but generally speaking i also think good tank are rarer than healer honestly. Also most tank are in fact dps or solo geared, they have 2h weapon, don't have sheild, and without shield usually the game make them unable to tank properly. So even if you have a lot of tank class, you don't have a lot of "good" tank. With healer you don't have this kind of problem, if the healer is bad, its just because the player don't have skill, and not because of game mechanism.
Also i don't think they will be able to fix the tank class any time soon. They just can't fix the class in fact, if they want to fix anything they will have to fix the trinity, and not just a role within it. The agro mechanism make it so that if you want an interesting group pve, with a high difficulty level, the tank being the only front element, you have no other choice but put a tremendous pressure on him. The whole mechanism is wrong to me.
This is where creating mechanism for the sake of mechansim can only lead to problems imo. Fighting should be directed to something we know, this mean real life fight simulation. In a real fight for exemple in any fight or battle front, the front line is in fact made of all the "fighters", not just one fighter type : the tank, the other being "dps". This is what is silly to me. All the fighter classes should hold the front line together, because thats what they should do together. Thats my 2cents. A mechanism based on mechanism cannot make sense, but whatever.
I think the whole community mentality and expectations behind grouping and gaming has changed dramatically since UO and EQ, and that in the last couple of years. Many of us came to these mmorpgs from MUD´s or pen and paper role-playing, and it was more relaxed back then(you know relaxing in a cool basement on a hot summer evening with friends and a GM, some snacks and drinks, and have a fun relaxing time playing D&D), it was like the world was in slow motion and we had all the time in the world for gaming and growing into our characters.
The grouping in mmorpgs back then was more about exploring these new cool worlds and learn as we go, we were all noobs, today when you enter a gameworld as a new player(new, either to the game or even to the whole mmorpg genre) you got some sort of a unspoken expectation on you, you should choose a role because you already are good at it, not because you want to learn it and grow into it.
If you choose to be tank then you better play it well and not only that, you should also be a person who has certain real life quality's(you should be a leader, be alert, quick to evaluate situation and react fast and so on). It´s like a weight on your shoulders, suddenly something that should be fun growing into, playing and learning becomes something frustrating and stressful, almost like a second job. There is no room to grow into the role in a calm and fun way anymore, these days even before you press the create button in the character builder you got that feeling that you maybe not gonna be up to standards with the expectations and suck at it.
The best tank memories I have is from EQ2 and that is because my guild had a local gaming club and hosted many LAN parties, usually once a week. To sit down with the people(usually 5-10 gents or ladies) and see the actual people playing the characters in your group was just the best thing ever. I´m a really shy guy in reality(mainly because I´m disabled in wheelchair) and have never seen myself as a leader, and I think many in the group saw that, pushed me into the tank role and helped me growing into that role(I usually play support(buffer,debuffer or CC... the little unnoticed guy in the back who makes the ones in the front shine). I learned it(after many many many wipes :P ) and had fun in the same time, a very good experience(both in game and rl).
Sadly the club ceased to exist when SWG went NGE(grrr), and I have tried to play as tank in many pugs since, in many different games. Sure there there are many great people out there to group with(usually guildys or rl friends, but also some pug people are great), but there sure is many more elitist and e-bully types of people out there who only waits to get under your skin and squish that last little sense of pride and accomplishment out of your already dead body. So I stopped playing tank and now dps(yes i dps since utility/support class more or less gets singled out in the newer mmorpgs). :P
*looks at the rant just made* hmm got a little weird, missed my point somewhere in there... but I´m too tired to change it now... nighty night!
DPS doesnt matter, nobody cares what the dps does, it is an easy role because anyone can do it. and nobody cares if you do it well.
I can't agree with that.
I did never mind taking the lead, both as tank in groups, as guild leader many years or in RL just as well. However, these days the mentality has changed. People are less supportive and overly critical with leadership; most people only say something when it's negative. It was a tendency in the past already, but in the last years it has gotten considerably worse.
I don't mind taking responsibility or living with pressure, but backstabbing jerks who have nothing but badmouthing for you if you lead, no matter what you do. I mind people who always suggest what you should do, but NEVER want to work it out themselves! I mind people who want the leaders do 100% as they want to the leader can go to hell! I mind that people expect a leader to be always perfect or spank him! I mind people that these days the leaders are supposed to spoon feed people. THAT is why I stopped playing tanks and leading guilds!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I can tell you why! BECAUSE EVERYONE'S A CRITIC these days! That's why!
Damn, I used to love being tank over many years in MMOs, but these days, I just play Dmg. The mentality just changed! Every wants super fast speedruns, gogogo, max efficiency and too many people play a MMO like a second job! There is just way too much pressure and haste and this mentality just makes me sick. So I play dmg and just fire around.
/agree with Elikal (kind of what I had in mind when I wrote my weird post up there ^^) ;D
As someone who has always played tank classes and will continue to play tank classes for as long as the trinity exists in MMOs I think the notion that tanking is unpopular is a myth. There is a lot of competition in tanks and most tanks are competitive players. If there is a tank shortage it only exists for people who don't group and raid regularly with the same guild or clan. If anything there are too many tanks in MMOs and sometimes it is hard to find enough healers and DPS to stick with a guild long term.
I used to play DPS all the time in MMO's but I decided to try tanking and healing a couple of year ago and found it way more fun. It was easier to find groups as a much needed class and faster as well. In WoW (which is not my first MMO it's just the one I was playing when I decided to try tanking/healing) when I played DPS I could sit in the dungeon queue for an hour sometimes but when I started to tank it was instant, healing sometimes could take 15 minutes but tanking was instant most times.
What I found was that people were rude, obnoxious, even downright belligerent when I would make a mistake. I remember once someone had the nerve to tell me to commit suicide because we wiped on the last boss. Then as I got better it still wasn't good enough just not to wipe it was hurry up, whats taking so long, you shouldn't tank cause your too slow. It was never good enough. Now that is a generalization, not all instances were bad ones but there were a lot of idiots who could tell you that you weren't good enough yet they were DPS. I finally got tired of it and when I encountered an asshole I would vote to kick and just replace them, most times the group agreed.
I still tank in MMO's today, and heal sometimes too, but i don't tolerate idiots anymore. If someone starts to complain I tell them they can leave if they want and I'll replace them. That either shuts them up or gets them replaced but it takes a lot sometimes to keep playing a tank. At least for me it does.
I used to play DPS all the time in MMO's but I decided to try tanking and healing a couple of year ago and found it way more fun. It was easier to find groups as a much needed class and faster as well. In WoW (which is not my first MMO it's just the one I was playing when I decided to try tanking/healing) when I played DPS I could sit in the dungeon queue for an hour sometimes but when I started to tank it was instant, healing sometimes could take 15 minutes but tanking was instant most times.
What I found was that people were rude, obnoxious, even downright belligerent when I would make a mistake. I remember once someone had the nerve to tell me to commit suicide because we wiped on the last boss. Then as I got better it still wasn't good enough just not to wipe it was hurry up, whats taking so long, you shouldn't tank cause your too slow. It was never good enough. Now that is a generalization, not all instances were bad ones but there were a lot of idiots who could tell you that you weren't good enough yet they were DPS. I finally got tired of it and when I encountered an asshole I would vote to kick and just replace them, most times the group agreed.
I still tank in MMO's today, and heal sometimes too, but i don't tolerate idiots anymore. If someone starts to complain I tell them they can leave if they want and I'll replace them. That either shuts them up or gets them replaced but it takes a lot sometimes to keep playing a tank. At least for me it does.
I had the same experience actually, and it was also in WoW.
It was before the LFG-tool so I would add anyone with a clue who wasnt a jerk to my friendslist. As I got better, these guys would appreciate teaming up for daily dungeon and it felt pretty good to deny all those old jerks /telling me asking for invite DPS are abundant, as tank dont take crap from anyone. 0 tolerance. If you never get to team with them again, its their loss. Find a good healer or two and form a duo and you're all set for awesomeness.
Also I remember from playing dps myself... you're usually the one who knows least about the encounter and yet you're also the last to get blamed when shit goes wrong. Go figure O_o
I think a lot of it comes down to the expectation that the tank needs to know every pull, every fight, every boss, while no one else in the party has the same degree of responsibility. Few players take the time to really understand the complexity of it, and some just lack the confidence level to play that sort of role. I would like to say laziness, but sometimes it also comes down to the way that the holy trinity (Brick, Stick and Click) is designed in games.
I stopped being a healer and a tank a couple of years ago, after 10 years of playing those roles. People are morons now, so screw it. I will NEVER be a tank or a healer again. NEVER EVER.
I stopped being a healer and a tank a couple of years ago, after 10 years of playing those roles. People are morons now, so screw it. I will NEVER be a tank or a healer again. NEVER EVER.
Definately agree about the blame game; tanks by far have the most to look out for in a tough fight, and yet people are usually rather quick to blame any wipe on the tank, regardless of the real reasons. Tanks are the most gear-dependent portion of the trinity, have the steepest learning curve (most of the time), and generally earn the least respect from their fellow team members. DPS characters rarely bother to understand aggro, timing or threat, and although healers have more responsibilities than DPS, even they are mostly watching health bars, and have nothing to do with pulls, aggro (unless they screw up) or boss knowledge.
Don't get me wrong; a bad tank is a bad tank - no one will wipe an instance quicker than a bad tank. That being said, even in a cake run a tank is harder to play than the other two types put together.
I hate tanking because you got little jerks with no life whatsoever and no job so when i go to tank you make one minor mistake or something and people freak out like its the end of the damn world for them i play to enjoy the game and thats that but when people act like it a full time job or something so now i just dont tank.
As others have pointed out its mainly the responibility to "know everything" and you get blamed the most. Frankly, I don't see why that is required. If you play with a certain group, its EVERYONES job to know. PUG on the hand, yeah but honestly, I feel really odd about being any class in a PUG, because people don't pay attention, do not care about your "time" and are flaky more often than not.
A good group helps the tank as long as he is a good player. Any player that has the ability to be good at any class can be a tank. Stupid players are stupid regardless of class, they DPS less than others more often than not.
I think the tank shortage is linked to these reasons: 1. Mmo's are now more casual solo friendly games. Tanks are slow at killing compared to a dps class, therefore boring to some. 2. people race to the end, once again tanks are usually low dps, not fast enough. Play a dps class to get to endgame. 3. Your not an uber tank? This game been out 4days and your still not max lvl? You don't know this dungeon? 1st time here? No thanx, we will look for someone else. We want to do this in record time. 4. Dealing with this asshole, omg! We wiped! You suck! Worst tank ever! /leave group. ( 1st wipe in a new dungeon FYI ) You don't really have to deal with this type of stuff as dps. Healers put up with some bs too tho. I am a newbie for tanking and have found out there is 0 tolerance for new guys in tanks. And since I don't live and breathe mmo's I usually miss the early dungeon crawls so I don't officially get my feet wet until end lvl runs due to lack of groups In the mid lvls
70 monk eq1 80 bruiser eq2 43 druid wow Currently playing : rift
Comments
I always tank or heal and have rarely had problems healing. My sole problem with healing has been asshole tanks that feel like, because of the low tanking pop, the group somehow owed them something.
Honestly -- as a tank -- in a pug, if you're doing your best and not causing problems I don't care. If it's an exp party/instance. I don't pay enough attention to complain. I've got mobs to control.
While on tanks though I do get assinine dps that will pull for me no matter how fast I pull (because tanks don't usually have a lot of ranged abilities). Pulling for the tank causes a number of problems especially if it's a multi-pack or a pack that contains casters. Noone has ever had a reason to pull for my warrior in Warcraft but that doesn't mean they didn't.
In FFXI, I really had no issues ever. while tanking or healing. The community was better.
WoW and all of the xeroxes put the responsibility on the tank/healer, and the fun for the dps. No effort is made to teach dps to give a shit because some of them might get offended and cancel their subs.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
This is actually changing.. But I think it just depends on the classes and what they can do.. We all know the general allure the majority of folks have to the ol' ninja assasin role (rogue classes especially ones that dual wield) , but in just about every game I have played the Tanks have the easiest time soloing besides clerics..
The tank classes are almost always recommended for noobs because of their survivability in solo play.. I think where people start to have issues with being the tank is the control you must have over a situation.. Where a "ninja assasin" only has to faceroll the keyboard as much as possible until the creature dies, the tank has to keep said faceroller from getting too much attention from the mob and getting smacked something fierce.. That is sometimes a very difficult task especially in multi-mob situations..
And when a wipe occurs, the most winey and sometimes arrogant idiot in the group, obviously the facerolling ninja assasin, will blame the tank..
I used to play Tanks for the awesome defense, but in games like Rift, being the tank becomes a little more of a hassle because you have to actually be built a very specific way to fit into the holy trinity or people will be even harsher on their criticisms..
Although, Clerics and Rogues can tank in Rift, people will rarely ever let them because it just doesn't "fit"..
What are you talking about? In all the MMOs ive played, which is a lot since WoW came out, it has ALWAYS been the biggest problem to find a healer.
This topic is now about what it is supposed to be about, why dont people like playing healers? Its very funny in pvp, cause its a battle to keep everyone alive
personally ive started only playing rogue/assassins types now, cause theres so much less stress in pvp, and you dont sit in front of your computer shouting everytime you get killed out of the blue, which hardly ever happens as a rogue, good thing i never see that many in rift
tanks, healers, the problem is pretty much the same - relying on the rest of your group.
If you have a group of friends you play with, this is less of an issue because everybody is invested in having fun and not letting the rest of the group down.
If it's strangers then, generally, these people don't care. It's always the tank/healers fault if someone dies. The majority of the group is dps who generally die quickly in higher end encounters.
As a tank, I don't like relying on a bunch of dps to attack the right mobs at the right time.
As a healer, I don't like having to sit there and make sure the tank is actually holding aggro and the dps aren't breaking cc's. I usually just say that if you break a cc, you tank it. I'm not going to heal you.
I mastered healing ages ago and have since found it to be boring because of the way most healers work. I don't feel like going in to any further detail.
I tend to agree with most people here. Too much pressure to play right, perform, protect... When I get home and have time to play I just want to relax and not worry about anyone. If I was tank I would probably not be doing a good job at that point.
Venge
I'm playing Rift and specialising as a tank. In Rift you have multiple builds that you can switch between without cost or preamble (you just have to be out of combat).
This means tanking =/= slow leveling.
It also means tanking =/= suck at PvP.
So, if tanking is STILL unpopular in Rift then, as most people said here, it is the "pressure to play right". I think that is the case. There are a tonne of warriors but few wanting to play the tank. Not that I have any hard data or anything.
(I am an oddball - or I am just too old for this genre now - I don't even switch to a DPS build when I'm out leveling because I'm not in a rush.)
The biggest problem with tanking (or healing for that matter) is a lame community.
Most group failures that I've seen are some Rambo (Leeroy) who thinks s/he can solo the place and then gets the party wiped.
Funny thing is, these same people are the ones who scream about the tank-healer not doing their jobs. Pfffft. No thanks... let them find their own tank-healer.
I think while some other classes have become more forgiving since the ealier games, tanks still have a relatively rough gig and it can be boring, depending on the game. Essentially, you are doing this balance act of taking aggro but not too much aggro if you have other tanks or semi-tanks in the group. If things go south, and you do your job, tanks will pretty much always die. Games with repair expense, seems to be a favorite now, gear is expensive ot get and repair. And well gear itself can be a problem. Caster's might be able to get away with cheap or just okay gear, many tanks can't. It is just, as I mentioned early on, a more unforgiving role... and it's especially "fun" to be a tank ina group with sem-healers and not a full healer or a healer who just doesn't like his or her role.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
I can tell you why I've never played a tank.
The Community.
MMORPGs have such hot headed quick to anger players.. that any mistake warrants a barrage of insults and asshatery. I never liked tanking because I generally don't like the people I end up grouping with in pickup groups, and hate being responsible for their survival. So I tend to stick with the pure DPS classes, no support, no healing, no tanking.
However i recently starting playing Rift with friends and I've loved every minute of being a tank. But.. I'm grouping with people I know, who are allowing me to learn to be a tank in a safe and fun environment without all the negative energy pick up groups tend to come with.
Tanking is a learned skill beyond just the mechanics of the game. Learning what information you need to monitor, what information is important and when, managing aggro, learning the dungeons layout, how the mobs react, aggro and link ranger, on top of learning the actualy abilities of their class in that particular game. Learning all this stuff is difficult if you've never done it. And the current community atmosphere does not foster a healthy learning environment.
---
Live a life less ordinary.
Well it depend on the game, but generally speaking i also think good tank are rarer than healer honestly. Also most tank are in fact dps or solo geared, they have 2h weapon, don't have sheild, and without shield usually the game make them unable to tank properly. So even if you have a lot of tank class, you don't have a lot of "good" tank. With healer you don't have this kind of problem, if the healer is bad, its just because the player don't have skill, and not because of game mechanism.
Also i don't think they will be able to fix the tank class any time soon. They just can't fix the class in fact, if they want to fix anything they will have to fix the trinity, and not just a role within it. The agro mechanism make it so that if you want an interesting group pve, with a high difficulty level, the tank being the only front element, you have no other choice but put a tremendous pressure on him. The whole mechanism is wrong to me.
This is where creating mechanism for the sake of mechansim can only lead to problems imo. Fighting should be directed to something we know, this mean real life fight simulation. In a real fight for exemple in any fight or battle front, the front line is in fact made of all the "fighters", not just one fighter type : the tank, the other being "dps". This is what is silly to me. All the fighter classes should hold the front line together, because thats what they should do together. Thats my 2cents. A mechanism based on mechanism cannot make sense, but whatever.
I think the whole community mentality and expectations behind grouping and gaming has changed dramatically since UO and EQ, and that in the last couple of years. Many of us came to these mmorpgs from MUD´s or pen and paper role-playing, and it was more relaxed back then(you know relaxing in a cool basement on a hot summer evening with friends and a GM, some snacks and drinks, and have a fun relaxing time playing D&D), it was like the world was in slow motion and we had all the time in the world for gaming and growing into our characters.
The grouping in mmorpgs back then was more about exploring these new cool worlds and learn as we go, we were all noobs, today when you enter a gameworld as a new player(new, either to the game or even to the whole mmorpg genre) you got some sort of a unspoken expectation on you, you should choose a role because you already are good at it, not because you want to learn it and grow into it.
If you choose to be tank then you better play it well and not only that, you should also be a person who has certain real life quality's(you should be a leader, be alert, quick to evaluate situation and react fast and so on). It´s like a weight on your shoulders, suddenly something that should be fun growing into, playing and learning becomes something frustrating and stressful, almost like a second job. There is no room to grow into the role in a calm and fun way anymore, these days even before you press the create button in the character builder you got that feeling that you maybe not gonna be up to standards with the expectations and suck at it.
The best tank memories I have is from EQ2 and that is because my guild had a local gaming club and hosted many LAN parties, usually once a week. To sit down with the people(usually 5-10 gents or ladies) and see the actual people playing the characters in your group was just the best thing ever. I´m a really shy guy in reality(mainly because I´m disabled in wheelchair) and have never seen myself as a leader, and I think many in the group saw that, pushed me into the tank role and helped me growing into that role(I usually play support(buffer,debuffer or CC... the little unnoticed guy in the back who makes the ones in the front shine). I learned it(after many many many wipes :P ) and had fun in the same time, a very good experience(both in game and rl).
Sadly the club ceased to exist when SWG went NGE(grrr), and I have tried to play as tank in many pugs since, in many different games. Sure there there are many great people out there to group with(usually guildys or rl friends, but also some pug people are great), but there sure is many more elitist and e-bully types of people out there who only waits to get under your skin and squish that last little sense of pride and accomplishment out of your already dead body. So I stopped playing tank and now dps(yes i dps since utility/support class more or less gets singled out in the newer mmorpgs). :P
*looks at the rant just made* hmm got a little weird, missed my point somewhere in there... but I´m too tired to change it now... nighty night!
The Second Day Vet
SWG: Astromechs & Friday Features and Guides from SWG O-forums (2003-2005) (Read last post first for clarity)
I can't agree with that.
I did never mind taking the lead, both as tank in groups, as guild leader many years or in RL just as well. However, these days the mentality has changed. People are less supportive and overly critical with leadership; most people only say something when it's negative. It was a tendency in the past already, but in the last years it has gotten considerably worse.
I don't mind taking responsibility or living with pressure, but backstabbing jerks who have nothing but badmouthing for you if you lead, no matter what you do. I mind people who always suggest what you should do, but NEVER want to work it out themselves! I mind people who want the leaders do 100% as they want to the leader can go to hell! I mind that people expect a leader to be always perfect or spank him! I mind people that these days the leaders are supposed to spoon feed people. THAT is why I stopped playing tanks and leading guilds!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
/agree with Elikal (kind of what I had in mind when I wrote my weird post up there ^^) ;D
SWG: Astromechs & Friday Features and Guides from SWG O-forums (2003-2005) (Read last post first for clarity)
As someone who has always played tank classes and will continue to play tank classes for as long as the trinity exists in MMOs I think the notion that tanking is unpopular is a myth. There is a lot of competition in tanks and most tanks are competitive players. If there is a tank shortage it only exists for people who don't group and raid regularly with the same guild or clan. If anything there are too many tanks in MMOs and sometimes it is hard to find enough healers and DPS to stick with a guild long term.
I used to play DPS all the time in MMO's but I decided to try tanking and healing a couple of year ago and found it way more fun. It was easier to find groups as a much needed class and faster as well. In WoW (which is not my first MMO it's just the one I was playing when I decided to try tanking/healing) when I played DPS I could sit in the dungeon queue for an hour sometimes but when I started to tank it was instant, healing sometimes could take 15 minutes but tanking was instant most times.
What I found was that people were rude, obnoxious, even downright belligerent when I would make a mistake. I remember once someone had the nerve to tell me to commit suicide because we wiped on the last boss. Then as I got better it still wasn't good enough just not to wipe it was hurry up, whats taking so long, you shouldn't tank cause your too slow. It was never good enough. Now that is a generalization, not all instances were bad ones but there were a lot of idiots who could tell you that you weren't good enough yet they were DPS. I finally got tired of it and when I encountered an asshole I would vote to kick and just replace them, most times the group agreed.
I still tank in MMO's today, and heal sometimes too, but i don't tolerate idiots anymore. If someone starts to complain I tell them they can leave if they want and I'll replace them. That either shuts them up or gets them replaced but it takes a lot sometimes to keep playing a tank. At least for me it does.
I had the same experience actually, and it was also in WoW.
It was before the LFG-tool so I would add anyone with a clue who wasnt a jerk to my friendslist. As I got better, these guys would appreciate teaming up for daily dungeon and it felt pretty good to deny all those old jerks /telling me asking for invite
DPS are abundant, as tank dont take crap from anyone. 0 tolerance. If you never get to team with them again, its their loss. Find a good healer or two and form a duo and you're all set for awesomeness.
Also I remember from playing dps myself... you're usually the one who knows least about the encounter and yet you're also the last to get blamed when shit goes wrong. Go figure O_o
I think a lot of it comes down to the expectation that the tank needs to know every pull, every fight, every boss, while no one else in the party has the same degree of responsibility. Few players take the time to really understand the complexity of it, and some just lack the confidence level to play that sort of role. I would like to say laziness, but sometimes it also comes down to the way that the holy trinity (Brick, Stick and Click) is designed in games.
Greystaff Legends RPG
It seems safe IMO, just stack a ton of armor and HP and pray there is some kind of healer. No big deal.
I stopped being a healer and a tank a couple of years ago, after 10 years of playing those roles. People are morons now, so screw it. I will NEVER be a tank or a healer again. NEVER EVER.
There i feel better now
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
Only too true.
Definately agree about the blame game; tanks by far have the most to look out for in a tough fight, and yet people are usually rather quick to blame any wipe on the tank, regardless of the real reasons. Tanks are the most gear-dependent portion of the trinity, have the steepest learning curve (most of the time), and generally earn the least respect from their fellow team members. DPS characters rarely bother to understand aggro, timing or threat, and although healers have more responsibilities than DPS, even they are mostly watching health bars, and have nothing to do with pulls, aggro (unless they screw up) or boss knowledge.
Don't get me wrong; a bad tank is a bad tank - no one will wipe an instance quicker than a bad tank. That being said, even in a cake run a tank is harder to play than the other two types put together.
Greystaff Legends RPG
I hate tanking because you got little jerks with no life whatsoever and no job so when i go to tank you make one minor mistake or something and people freak out like its the end of the damn world for them i play to enjoy the game and thats that but when people act like it a full time job or something so now i just dont tank.
As others have pointed out its mainly the responibility to "know everything" and you get blamed the most. Frankly, I don't see why that is required. If you play with a certain group, its EVERYONES job to know. PUG on the hand, yeah but honestly, I feel really odd about being any class in a PUG, because people don't pay attention, do not care about your "time" and are flaky more often than not.
A good group helps the tank as long as he is a good player. Any player that has the ability to be good at any class can be a tank. Stupid players are stupid regardless of class, they DPS less than others more often than not.
wow...13 of 90% repeating what I wrote in the second post.
I think people REALLY needed to vent on this subject lol.
1. Mmo's are now more casual solo friendly games. Tanks are slow at killing compared to a dps class, therefore boring to some.
2. people race to the end, once again tanks are usually low dps, not fast enough. Play a dps class to get to endgame.
3. Your not an uber tank? This game been out 4days and your still not max lvl? You don't know this dungeon? 1st time here? No thanx, we will look for someone else. We want to do this in record time.
4. Dealing with this asshole, omg! We wiped! You suck! Worst tank ever! /leave group. ( 1st wipe in a new dungeon FYI )
You don't really have to deal with this type of stuff as dps. Healers put up with some bs too tho.
I am a newbie for tanking and have found out there is 0 tolerance for new guys in tanks. And since I don't live and breathe mmo's I usually miss the early dungeon crawls so I don't officially get my feet wet until end lvl runs due to lack of groups In the mid lvls
70 monk eq1
80 bruiser eq2
43 druid wow
Currently playing : rift