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Will the PVP be zerg-fest?
nomss
Member UncommonPosts: 1,468
in Guild Wars 2
I can't see how WvWvW PVP be fun. I go in, I'd probally get picked by 2-3 people and most likely die before I could roll the second time? Or I'd be mshing skills? What about other PVP? TOR's PVP sounds fun, it was mentioned its very strategic.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
Comments
If pvp happens to be small scale then it won't but if it turns into a large scale battle it will, just like any other game.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Don't get picked by 2-3 guys.
If you like competitive pvp then you can play the GvG arenas.
The original GW PvP is the most balanced out of any game I've played(which is quite a lot). That's because ArenaNet built it with PvP in mind and not just an afterthought. You can probably guarantee that the PvP will be just fine.
From an interview with Jon Peters where he talks about his best moment from developing GW2.
In a recent PvP fight, I was attacking an enemy objective. When I realized the attack wasn’t going well I dropped my Warrior Elite Battle Standard knocking the enemies back and buying some time. During that down time I switched over to Greatsword and began kiting enemies using the Whirlwind Attack. After continuing to harass them for a little while, I saw my health was running low and began to plot my escape. On the way out, I used some change of direction, a dodge roll or two, and some blocking terrain to avoid the attackers’ projectile attacks. As I turned a corner while fleeing, I saw some allies and reactivated Whirlwind Attack while passing through my allies, buying myself enough time for a heal, at which point the two enemies chasing me had engaged my allies. I charged back in, used Stomp to throw the enemies off my teammates, and then finished one of them off with an Impaling Throw, Hundred Blades combo. At this point the second enemy turned to run. I pulled back out my Rifle, hit him with an Aimed Shot to cripple him, and then powered up a Kill Shot that fired off killing him just before he got out of range. It was at this point that I stopped and realized the game is still pre-alpha.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WvWvW has areas for smaller groups & soloers as also for zergers.
Ppl with big mass prolly try to take keeps and fortresses or w/e and small invidual players can disturb enemy suply lines so they can't make any walls, cannons etc. etc.
Atm. the World PvP sounds prtty content rich.
Also theres structed PvP. (IE. Scenarios/Battlegrounds, how ever you call em)
Theres Tournament structed PvP where you play with your mates and fight against other teams.
Theres also Pick up play:
What I have seen they are more like in shooter games for example. You see games running, you pick one and start playing instantly. No waiting in lines to get pop. Also you can start own scenario where you can change settings such as how many players can join, maps to play in etc. etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4VKhrCDWfg
Offcause it will be a zerg-fest. Even the developers have stated that WvWvW will be impossoble to balance. But having a 3-way battle will ensure that most often there will not only be one zerg steamrolling everything, but a few. And in that setup there might be room for (and that what most hopes for will happend) that something nonzerging PvP would have its funktion in WvW.
I advice you to look closer at how WvWvW have been described , with the need to go get resources from mines in the open, and bring them back to build siegeweapons and so on! And it should be obvius that alot of roles have to be taken care of in WvW.
But if looking for fair encounters don't go for WvW, it is thats simple.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pvp
WvWvW will be domminated by the assist train... I cant see any developer create a counter mechanisme to this, and it will allways be highly effective...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Just watched one dev vid.
''What we have tried to do is lay around many different objects for groups of different sizes. One of the things players who have played DaoC or players who have played Warhammers RvR will recognize that sort of style of play. That's what we are kind of trying to do with World vs World''
''But one of the things we think that in other games they didnt provide enough different size of an objectives. There was something for big zerger players to do but there wasn't something for one player to do in alot of cases. So what we are trying to do we've tried to provide all sorts of different objectives that can help your team out in the field''
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing-Guild-Wars-2-Dynamic
45:01 --->
(PS. Just realised I've allrdy said this thing in this thread lol, how can I delete post? >.>)
Thing is in GW2 how do you assist someone when alot of your skills are ground or projektile targeted and not guided to target spells. and when 1 simple warrior can charge up a shiled the reflects all incomming projectiles around his supposedly ganged partner, youll see a world of hurt to your assist range train that are so popular in open world pvp games.
Then you got aoe knockbacks etc for the melee assist gangbangs.
It is kind of like in HoN (heroes of Newearth) where in many matchups you face nasty aoe disables, that makes you spread out all the time from your teammates and that workes as NASTY counterattacks to melee gangbangs on your friends (think Tempest/Keeper/etc ultis)
There are mechanincs to prevent assist powering, and it seems to be in the game! Its just that they have been rare in mmorpg before atleast in the games ive played.
FagerCraft - Feeding the trolls on mmorpg.com since 2005.
Killing of people one by one will allways be the most efficient way..
OFfcourse it will be harder, but with good communication <voice> it will be possible even if there is no stupid assist button
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Hmmm..Zerg= fun...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkl_fAjmLmA
http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Jesus/Jesus.htm
While not every part of WvWvW will be a zerg, its more likely to be a zerg than regular open world PvP seeing as how everyone who comes into WvWvW is there to PvP, and its completely closed off from the open world.
While a few solo players or smaller groups might get together to hunt others running through with supplies, I think of this type of playstyle as a larger instanced battleground with no limit on the amount of players you can have on your team. As more people from your server join, the more you'll see them just rushing in to where the killing is.
You see this a lot with open world objective based PvP where everybody wants to be where the action is. The problem is usually that the entirety of objectives fall to the wayside and you only end up with an "our side is stronger than your side" battle which is where the zerg happens.
Spreading out the focus or objectives does help a lot in this, but with instant travel in GW2, it will mostly be zerg on zerg with only the more populated being the victor.
I think that if the various objectives involving mines, supply lines, keeps and what not offer a real incentive then zergs will discouraged because people will be spread out.
We don't know if and how instant travel will be a part of WvWvW (which, even in PvE, can only be done to certain waypoints which you have to unlock first).
We'll have to see how it is designed. I envision that you'll have fast travel from your home area to 1 or 2 parts of the main middle hub between the rest of the worlds. Personally I don't think they can out-incentivize the core objectives of "keep" ownership. If they make mines and supplies of equal necessity as everything else, then I think we'd see a broader playing field, but its too early to tell exactly what players will deem as being the main focus.
play daoc.. Zerg fest are the best pvp, id argue only real pvp in games.
When a zerg can exists you need to worry more about tactics, how to use a smaller group to kill a large group, how to suprize and ambush your enemy, how to play with many people rather than just a few. Its real , raw and ever changing.
if the pvp zones are very large gankign people runnign to the front is always effective , while the main accomplishment might me zerg driven , solo, duo, and small groups in spansive pvp areas with fronts will have roles in ganking and high mobily combat.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Look at all these amazing AoE skills
You zerg, you die.
A coordinated team of people that has enough power to kill a mob with AoE is enough to own a zergling army. Unless you're Kerrigan, It is very hard to lead an zergling army.
Who would have guessed that a group of players focus firing on the same target would be more effective than everyone attacking randomly...
Those pesky players and their ability to work together!!!
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
lol.
î played alot of mmo's in my life, and yet none comes even close to the class balance GW has.
Arenanet knows what they are doing and will offer diffrent types of pvp so we can decide for ourselves what we want.
seriously compare wow's arena to guildwars arena and notice the balance in those 2 mmo's its a diffrence between night and day
fully confident in arenanet and how things will work out.
Honestly speaking the WvW PVP will be most likely a Zerg yes - But to be successful it has to be an organized Zerg. Like In DAOC / Lineage / War / Aion - there will be Server wide Alliances and a kind of ServerRaid structure - so either you be an active member of these organised mass raids or you just tag along. But this kind of PVP will clearly dominate the WvW PVP. Ofc you can try to hunt in small groups in the outskirts of the WvW Zone or try to intercept some latercomers etc. but the important targets will be tagged by server alliances. And if you run into such a 50 to 200 ppl Zerg ... just bend over take it and come back - its part of the game.
If you want smallscale PVP on fair base then focus on Arena PVP.
Zerg fest is for game that have no strategy involved, but are just about 2 groups fighting in the open like dump ass. From the few interview vid about their world pvp map it seam they have packed quiet some strategy into it. Now how will it play, i think we will have to see, but it look promising for sure.
Also i think the poeple that think you need any kind of "grouping" preparation to go in those maps got it totally wrong, or at least i hope they got it totally wrong. The point of such a setting is obviously for you to just go "pvp", period. So are you solo, in small group or for a clan event, you should get some fun. Also it seam the game is adaptative enough so you will be able to actually make groups inside thoses maps, on the fly, just the way you did in Aion whern going into other faction portal. You went there and grouped with the guys, or just went solo if that was your stuff. So i really hope for this kind of setting. Naturally if you prepare your group its all better for you, but you really shouldn't need it at all. This is something i really wait for in GW2, the fact you will actually be able to meet people when going to pvp. That was one of the best aspect of Aion, both when you defended or attacked the other faction you had this feeling a group was growing, and that's what miss the most in mmos today where averything must be set before even begining, which clearly kill any advantage a massivly game should have by default
So to finish for me they are bad zerg when a guild block the pvp of a server with its suprematy, thats the kind of crapy zerg you should avoid. But the"zerg" as a growing force into enemy teritorry of people that are not trained to be together, that kind of zerg is good to me at least.