i guess the SWG lovers don't realize that the only reason Tat in that game looked so full was because of all the houses that were littered across the planet. If i remember correctly, i could ride in any direction away from a city and see a whole lot of nothing but sand.
We learned that some people have no idea how badly streaming affects graphical quality and cant understand "We turned the graphics right down and the internet connection at E3 is pretty clogged so the quality is much poorer than the real t hing".
Still desperate haters need something to cling to, personally cant wait, loved that Tatooine felt like a vast arid expanse rather than a tiny bit of sand.
And others have no idea how far technology has come and never seen what can be done graphically over a broadband connection. Especially if the files are stored locally. Look around man, get with the times - you can do some awesome online graphics these days.
I desperately want to be proven wrong but so far I have only seen things that have made me dissapointed.
On the graphical issues debate... with modern technology there is no need to be "streaming graphics" over the internet, none whatsoever. Positional data updates (objects, textures, sounds, players etc) is really all that should be sent and the content loaded from the local storage on the machine where the game client is installed.
I can only hope the statement about turning everything down was a misstep by an overenthusiastic marketting person.
On the graphical issues debate... with modern technology there is no need to be "streaming graphics" over the internet, none whatsoever. Positional data updates (objects, textures, sounds, players etc) is really all that should be sent and the content loaded from the local storage on the machine where the game client is installed.
I can only hope the statement about turning everything down was a misstep by an overenthusiastic marketting person.
Just look at the other footage, you'll see that those are more detailed in texture, heck, you can even see shadows on them that you didn't see in the livestream!
HD Footage at the other conventions already showed a higher graphical resolution and standard visual effects than the livestream footage.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It wasnt a mistake. This is a demo. They have to share broadband with other demos and as such didnt have the game at optimal resoloution. Also i hear alot of complaints about mob aggor and there ai.
Its a demo with p layers getting thown into a level 26 character with no previous experiance with there class. It makes no sense to have mob ai tuned to its highest and to have the aggro range at its max when doing a demo. It makes mroe sense to tune the ai down and have mob aggro at a low range.
That way the players have time to find there abilites and not die over and over trying to figure out what abilities and where those abilites are located. Bioware has stated the mob agggro range is set to a very low level for demo purposes as well.
Also even with the game on system and graphics not being streamed over internet the game is played over a broadband connection that has alot of other mmo's useing it for game demos as well as the fact some game data is streamed as u play. So having graphics tuned down lower the latency and makes lag alot less given the game a better showing in gameplay.
On the graphical issues debate... with modern technology there is no need to be "streaming graphics" over the internet, none whatsoever. Positional data updates (objects, textures, sounds, players etc) is really all that should be sent and the content loaded from the local storage on the machine where the game client is installed.
I can only hope the statement about turning everything down was a misstep by an overenthusiastic marketting person.
Sigh. Just look at the other footage, will you? You'll see that those are more detailed in texture, heck, you can even see shadows on them that you didn't see in the livestream!
HD Footage at the other conventions already showed a higher graphical resolution and standard visual effects than the livestream footage.
See I knew I shouldnt have put that last bit in since It wasnt the primary focus of my post. I know that is not how the graphics actually look, my point was as a programmer myself the excuse given is either a load of crap or they have some very weird bandwidth hogging netcode in their game which is bound to get them in trouble down the track...... when there is simply no need to do things that way.
Honeslty I could not care less about how games look to be blunt, I play a lot of indie titles like a wreckless disregard for gravity, zombie driver and the Mount and Blade series to name just a few because they are fun despite their graphical limitations.
Quality of streamed video ? absolutely forgivable and obviously bandwidth is an issue.
Well, I see it like girlfriends and relationships, sure, it may be the content what it's really about, but damn, if the visuals are great too I certainly won't complain
As for why they opted to downgrade the graphics for the livestream, I think it's a bad choice to make for exactly the reason as people've shown here, namely that they think that's how the graphics actually are at its max, but on the other hand I've no reason to doubt that the bandwith explanation is why they did it.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Well, I see it like girlfriends and relationships, sure, it may be the content what it's really about, but damn, if the visuals are great too I certainly won't complain
As for why they opted to downgrade the graphics for the livestream, I think it's a bad choice to make for exactly the reason as people've shown here, namely that they think that's how the graphics actually are at its max, but on the other hand I've no reason to doubt that the bandwith explanation is why they did it.
Oh dont get me wrong I want something to push my PC for sure and nothing excites me more than a promising new game that supports the latest DX or OpenGL bells and whistles, but first and foremost it has to be enjoyable.
The graphics are not affected by bandwidth settings, so that isn't the reason why SWTOR turned the video settings down.
The in-game graphics are not streamed while you play the game and turn the mouse, so the game client graphics are not affected.
The live steam data rate is not affected by "good graphics", because the data rate is a set value for the broadcast. You can show a real life dude with headphones on and a microphone, or you can show SWTOR with shading or no shading, and you won't get massive bandwidth spikes when the real life dude shows up, or when SWTOR turns shadows on.
I can't believe some veteran MMORPG forum posters are giving the explanation of BANDWIDTH to justify why SWTOR turned down its graphics settings. I mean COME ON GUYS.. you are supposed to be pro gamers. Get informed on the technology that has been in use for years.
Mostly likely SWTOR has some performance issues due to lack of optimization, or graphical glitches on the higher settings, and gave the explanation that they had to turn settings down for the live stream to cover their asses.
Smaller raids does lead to people getting geared out very fast. DCUO has 8 man raids and being in a guild with 10 people you end up being fully geared from a raid in a few weeks.
In a nutshell it looks like the usual WoW-clone with 1 big pro and a 1 big con:
Big Pro: Bioware Storytelling, just look at KotOR, ME, DA sagas, enough said
Big Con: Graphics, while on some video world and vehicles look awesome, environment looks generally shallow and empty and characters are too cartoonish, they look like they're taken from City of Heroes, sometimes they look even worse than the old Star Wars Galaxies (and this in all videos, not just those with graphics toned down, even the teaser where it states "CINEMATIC STORYTELLING" has awful character textures). It looks like character models have very few polygons with crappy textures pasted on them, it is especially evident if you look at hair textures which look even worse than those from Fable 3 (which imo has the worst hair textures of this year)
Why is it that every other game at E3 is shown with thier highest graphics settings, to show off the game's capabilities. However, TOR is suposedly showing up with the lowest graphics settings only? sounds fishy to me...
The graphics are not affected by bandwidth settings, so that isn't the reason why SWTOR turned the video settings down.
The in-game graphics are not streamed while you play the game and turn the mouse, so the game client graphics are not affected.
The live steam data rate is not affected by "good graphics", because the data rate is a set value for the broadcast. You can show a real life dude with headphones on and a microphone, or you can show SWTOR with shading or no shading, and you won't get massive bandwidth spikes when the real life dude shows up, or when SWTOR turns shadows on.
I can't believe some veteran MMORPG forum posters are giving the explanation of BANDWIDTH to justify why SWTOR turned down its graphics settings. I mean COME ON GUYS.. you are supposed to be pro gamers. Get informed on the technology that has been in use for years.
Mostly likely SWTOR has some performance issues due to lack of optimization, or graphical glitches on the higher settings, and gave the explanation that they had to turn settings down for the live stream to cover their asses.
sorry to call some of you out, but something needs to be clearified.
this isnt (mostly)about bandwidth. this is about processing power and resource utilization.
simultaneously play a game on high graphics, and live stream that capture and audio to the world. you better believe that takes a heavy toll on processing power. even hd streaming games like amnesia can bring modern rigs to their knees. lower graphics settings = lower resource utilization = better streaming
have you guys tried streaming games over juntintv or livestream? toning down graphics is the first thing you do when equalizing your streaming bitrate. "bandwidth" may take the blame here, and it is a likely instigator. you only have 500mbit stream capability? better nerf the graphics to get good frame rate in both game and on stream.
Why is it that every other game at E3 is shown with thier highest graphics settings, to show off the game's capabilities. However, TOR is suposedly showing up with the lowest graphics settings only? sounds fishy to me...
Did you see the other video footage where they weren't livestreaming the gameplay, and where the resolution was a hell of a lot higher as well as visual effects? My guess is you didn't.
Originally posted by Comalv
In a nutshell it looks like the usual WoW-clone with 1 big pro and a 1 big con:
Big Pro: Bioware Storytelling, just look at KotOR, ME, DA sagas, enough said
Big Con: Graphics, while on some video world and vehicles look awesome, environment looks generally shallow and empty and characters are too cartoonish,
Personal tastes differ. While character models are meh to quite a number of people, most people, also non-fans seem to agree upon that the environment graphics are actually pretty good, I'd even say that they're as good if not better than the best environment graphics seen in current MMO's.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Why is it that every other game at E3 is shown with thier highest graphics settings, to show off the game's capabilities. However, TOR is suposedly showing up with the lowest graphics settings only? sounds fishy to me...
Did you see the other video footage where they weren't livestreaming the gameplay, and where the resolution was a hell of a lot higher as well as visual effects? My guess is you didn't.
Originally posted by Comalv
In a nutshell it looks like the usual WoW-clone with 1 big pro and a 1 big con:
Big Pro: Bioware Storytelling, just look at KotOR, ME, DA sagas, enough said
Big Con: Graphics, while on some video world and vehicles look awesome, environment looks generally shallow and empty and characters are too cartoonish,
Personal tastes differ. While character models are meh to quite a number of people, most people, also non-fans seem to agree upon that the environment graphics are actually pretty good, I'd even say that they're as good if not better than the best environment graphics seen in current MMO's.
Yes and I stated it myself that in some videos environment graphics and vehicles seem really great, it would be nice if characters were on the same level (armored characters look ok-ish aswell, it's just chars in robes or normal clothes and with no helmet that look really awful, specially up close, in all of the videos shown so far. Then of course they would have to make the graphic scale-able so that in large PVP combat people with old PCs don't crash (Hey, Aion!), but that doesn't mean they have to look awful 24/7.
Your character is the center of the MMO, it's your virtual alter-ego, at least that one should be rendered as best as possible.
I've also heard that some people think the models look cartoonish because of the SW:The Clone Wars merchandising (the animated series that is), but if that was true the CG Cinematics would be in that style aswell, and thankfully that isn't true (they should really make a CG Movie for SW:TOR btw).
It's true that in some cases graphics engine can be updated after the game is released (again, see Aion), but I don't see the point in starting behind schedule when the only really lacking part (as far as the engine goes) is character models/textures (some animations also look sub-par but characters shown so far are low-level so hopefully the high-end skills will have better animations )
i love how all these people think they know y the graphics were turned down or y this is this or that. everyone thinks they know more than the programmers. ur not the ones getting paid to make these games. ur the ones sittin at home typin in the forums sayin u know more than them. sit back and shut up. u know nothing. u only know what they let u know. period.
Comments
i guess the SWG lovers don't realize that the only reason Tat in that game looked so full was because of all the houses that were littered across the planet. If i remember correctly, i could ride in any direction away from a city and see a whole lot of nothing but sand.
The general environments are fantastic; seems someone is being selective ; I guess a little missrepresentation never went down too well.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I was watching the G4 live show and the lead designer confirmed 2011 for release.
Still not going to install some EA spyware to run an MMO, though.
Bounty Hunters get a Jawa companion.. I'm sold.
And others have no idea how far technology has come and never seen what can be done graphically over a broadband connection. Especially if the files are stored locally. Look around man, get with the times - you can do some awesome online graphics these days.
I desperately want to be proven wrong but so far I have only seen things that have made me dissapointed.
On the graphical issues debate... with modern technology there is no need to be "streaming graphics" over the internet, none whatsoever. Positional data updates (objects, textures, sounds, players etc) is really all that should be sent and the content loaded from the local storage on the machine where the game client is installed.
I can only hope the statement about turning everything down was a misstep by an overenthusiastic marketting person.
Just look at the other footage, you'll see that those are more detailed in texture, heck, you can even see shadows on them that you didn't see in the livestream!
HD Footage at the other conventions already showed a higher graphical resolution and standard visual effects than the livestream footage.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It wasnt a mistake. This is a demo. They have to share broadband with other demos and as such didnt have the game at optimal resoloution. Also i hear alot of complaints about mob aggor and there ai.
Its a demo with p layers getting thown into a level 26 character with no previous experiance with there class. It makes no sense to have mob ai tuned to its highest and to have the aggro range at its max when doing a demo. It makes mroe sense to tune the ai down and have mob aggro at a low range.
That way the players have time to find there abilites and not die over and over trying to figure out what abilities and where those abilites are located. Bioware has stated the mob agggro range is set to a very low level for demo purposes as well.
Also even with the game on system and graphics not being streamed over internet the game is played over a broadband connection that has alot of other mmo's useing it for game demos as well as the fact some game data is streamed as u play. So having graphics tuned down lower the latency and makes lag alot less given the game a better showing in gameplay.
See I knew I shouldnt have put that last bit in since It wasnt the primary focus of my post. I know that is not how the graphics actually look, my point was as a programmer myself the excuse given is either a load of crap or they have some very weird bandwidth hogging netcode in their game which is bound to get them in trouble down the track...... when there is simply no need to do things that way.
Honeslty I could not care less about how games look to be blunt, I play a lot of indie titles like a wreckless disregard for gravity, zombie driver and the Mount and Blade series to name just a few because they are fun despite their graphical limitations.
Quality of streamed video ? absolutely forgivable and obviously bandwidth is an issue.
Gameplay trumps graphics every time IMHO.
Well, I see it like girlfriends and relationships, sure, it may be the content what it's really about, but damn, if the visuals are great too I certainly won't complain
As for why they opted to downgrade the graphics for the livestream, I think it's a bad choice to make for exactly the reason as people've shown here, namely that they think that's how the graphics actually are at its max, but on the other hand I've no reason to doubt that the bandwith explanation is why they did it.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Oh dont get me wrong I want something to push my PC for sure and nothing excites me more than a promising new game that supports the latest DX or OpenGL bells and whistles, but first and foremost it has to be enjoyable.
I disagree entirely and think the environments look really great.
strange thing is I had low expectations... so now im excited.. and some how the other people had such high expectations they're disappointed.
*Looks around at the MMO market*
looks like shit, i'm sold... Sith time.
"Sometimes people say stuff they don''t mean, but more often then that they don''t say things they do mean"
The graphics are not affected by bandwidth settings, so that isn't the reason why SWTOR turned the video settings down.
The in-game graphics are not streamed while you play the game and turn the mouse, so the game client graphics are not affected.
The live steam data rate is not affected by "good graphics", because the data rate is a set value for the broadcast. You can show a real life dude with headphones on and a microphone, or you can show SWTOR with shading or no shading, and you won't get massive bandwidth spikes when the real life dude shows up, or when SWTOR turns shadows on.
I can't believe some veteran MMORPG forum posters are giving the explanation of BANDWIDTH to justify why SWTOR turned down its graphics settings. I mean COME ON GUYS.. you are supposed to be pro gamers. Get informed on the technology that has been in use for years.
Mostly likely SWTOR has some performance issues due to lack of optimization, or graphical glitches on the higher settings, and gave the explanation that they had to turn settings down for the live stream to cover their asses.
Still can't fly your spaceship. f&*$# rails.
I'll wait til it's on sale on Steam for $5.
Anything beyond 10 is silly. There should not exists any larger raids. From 5 to 10 experience of players really counts.
Smaller raids does lead to people getting geared out very fast. DCUO has 8 man raids and being in a guild with 10 people you end up being fully geared from a raid in a few weeks.
In a nutshell it looks like the usual WoW-clone with 1 big pro and a 1 big con:
Big Pro: Bioware Storytelling, just look at KotOR, ME, DA sagas, enough said
Big Con: Graphics, while on some video world and vehicles look awesome, environment looks generally shallow and empty and characters are too cartoonish, they look like they're taken from City of Heroes, sometimes they look even worse than the old Star Wars Galaxies (and this in all videos, not just those with graphics toned down, even the teaser where it states "CINEMATIC STORYTELLING" has awful character textures). It looks like character models have very few polygons with crappy textures pasted on them, it is especially evident if you look at hair textures which look even worse than those from Fable 3 (which imo has the worst hair textures of this year)
Fanboys will disagree, but meh
Why is it that every other game at E3 is shown with thier highest graphics settings, to show off the game's capabilities. However, TOR is suposedly showing up with the lowest graphics settings only? sounds fishy to me...
sorry to call some of you out, but something needs to be clearified.
this isnt (mostly)about bandwidth. this is about processing power and resource utilization.
simultaneously play a game on high graphics, and live stream that capture and audio to the world. you better believe that takes a heavy toll on processing power. even hd streaming games like amnesia can bring modern rigs to their knees. lower graphics settings = lower resource utilization = better streaming
have you guys tried streaming games over juntintv or livestream? toning down graphics is the first thing you do when equalizing your streaming bitrate. "bandwidth" may take the blame here, and it is a likely instigator. you only have 500mbit stream capability? better nerf the graphics to get good frame rate in both game and on stream.
Did you see the other video footage where they weren't livestreaming the gameplay, and where the resolution was a hell of a lot higher as well as visual effects? My guess is you didn't.
Personal tastes differ. While character models are meh to quite a number of people, most people, also non-fans seem to agree upon that the environment graphics are actually pretty good, I'd even say that they're as good if not better than the best environment graphics seen in current MMO's.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I thought the graphics were great. If you watch some of the other hands on footage, you will see plenty of texture, shadowing, and particle effects.
Yes and I stated it myself that in some videos environment graphics and vehicles seem really great, it would be nice if characters were on the same level (armored characters look ok-ish aswell, it's just chars in robes or normal clothes and with no helmet that look really awful, specially up close, in all of the videos shown so far. Then of course they would have to make the graphic scale-able so that in large PVP combat people with old PCs don't crash (Hey, Aion!), but that doesn't mean they have to look awful 24/7.
Your character is the center of the MMO, it's your virtual alter-ego, at least that one should be rendered as best as possible.
I've also heard that some people think the models look cartoonish because of the SW:The Clone Wars merchandising (the animated series that is), but if that was true the CG Cinematics would be in that style aswell, and thankfully that isn't true (they should really make a CG Movie for SW:TOR btw).
It's true that in some cases graphics engine can be updated after the game is released (again, see Aion), but I don't see the point in starting behind schedule when the only really lacking part (as far as the engine goes) is character models/textures (some animations also look sub-par but characters shown so far are low-level so hopefully the high-end skills will have better animations
)
i love how all these people think they know y the graphics were turned down or y this is this or that. everyone thinks they know more than the programmers. ur not the ones getting paid to make these games. ur the ones sittin at home typin in the forums sayin u know more than them. sit back and shut up. u know nothing. u only know what they let u know. period.