What is the difference between "griefing" and normal PvP? The normal PvP game has a goal, with benefits to winning. For example, you may get "Realm Points" or something to spend on improving your character skills or gear. Or, you may be attacking or defending a thing, a keep for example, and if you win or lose it it has an effect on the game. For example, take the keep and everybody gets a bonus stat. Xsyon has nothing like this. There is no actual PvP in that sense, since there is no reward for winning and no loss when you lose.
Griefing is player-vs-player too, but the goal is purely to kill the player, there is no other reward. In PvP, I may kill you for a reason, in griefing, killing you is the reason. Xsyon is a griefer's paradise, since there is no normal PvP.
I like this.
That's your definition. Not what it has been for years. So many cowards whose first mmo experience was WOW have tainted the playerbase and turned it into a bunch of cowards who would be better served playing offline games.
Just to be clear, I have never played WoW. I played DAOC and had a blast in RvR. I loved PvP then.
PvP and RvR had a purpose, there was a reason to kill someone. It was useful to take a keep, or kill off some attackers. That is PvP, at least to me.
Griefing is where you kill someone for no reason. There is nothing to gain, no points, nothing to defend. The only reason to kill someone is because you like the feeling of it. Fighting in this way is like dueling, except one player doesn't want to duel. So the net effect is that the killer likes to kill and piss off the other players. That is griefing, IMHO.
What is the difference between "griefing" and normal PvP? The normal PvP game has a goal, with benefits to winning. For example, you may get "Realm Points" or something to spend on improving your character skills or gear. Or, you may be attacking or defending a thing, a keep for example, and if you win or lose it it has an effect on the game. For example, take the keep and everybody gets a bonus stat. Xsyon has nothing like this. There is no actual PvP in that sense, since there is no reward for winning and no loss when you lose.
Griefing is player-vs-player too, but the goal is purely to kill the player, there is no other reward. In PvP, I may kill you for a reason, in griefing, killing you is the reason. Xsyon is a griefer's paradise, since there is no normal PvP.
I don't play Xyson becuase I don't have the patience for alpha state games, but it is a post apocalyptic world right? I'm not sure about you, but if I thought the real world was about to go apocolypse I would be loading up on guns and hunker down somewhere hidden for the onslaught of looters, griefers, rapists, etc. I'd try to team up with my neighbors to protect our stuff from the bad people out there. Sounds like the game at least protects you from the rapists, so be thankful for that at least...
Sounds like those that don't like PVP really wanted a game based on the garden of eden not post apocolypse wasteland. You have seen Mad Max movie right? Thats about how I imagine it would be. A griefers paradise.
This is supposed to be after the apocolypse. Nobody is going around killing everyone for no reason, everybody is just trying to survive. The person who does go around just killing everybody is a criminal or insane. A griefer.
Now give us some goals, something to defend and attack, and everything changes. Give me a pumpkin patch to defend, and let others attack it to get the food. That's PvP with a goal. That is what should be in this game. With nothing to defend, nothing to attack, and no risk/reward to look at, player killing is simply griefing unless it is consensual.
Griefing is where you kill someone for no reason. There is nothing to gain, no points, nothing to defend. The only reason to kill someone is because you like the feeling of it. Fighting in this way is like dueling, except one player doesn't want to duel. So the net effect is that the killer likes to kill and piss off the other players. That is griefing, IMHO.
There's never anything to gain. Pixels don't mean anything. Killing a player in a game won't make me rich, wise, or beautiful. Victory might make me happy for a while. If they put up a good fight even better. Having a purpose will enhance the experience but don't kid yourself, it's always about defeating the human(s) on the other end of the wire. If you don't understand that don't play PvP games that have no limitations. Other people don't exist to conform to your expectations.
There is something to gain, in the context of the game. Not in reality, but that is another thread
Sneaking up on an unarmed person and killing them for no reason is why you play the game? In Xsyon, you don't get points or loot (all loot is worthless). So you play to get the emotional charge of killing a helpless person?
I loved PvP when we were attacking something, or defending something, or raiding against other fighters. A good fight against a worhty opponent and all that. PvP games that have no limitations sounds like a griefer's paradise.
What is the difference between "griefing" and normal PvP? The normal PvP game has a goal, with benefits to winning. For example, you may get "Realm Points" or something to spend on improving your character skills or gear. Or, you may be attacking or defending a thing, a keep for example, and if you win or lose it it has an effect on the game. For example, take the keep and everybody gets a bonus stat. Xsyon has nothing like this. There is no actual PvP in that sense, since there is no reward for winning and no loss when you lose.
Griefing is player-vs-player too, but the goal is purely to kill the player, there is no other reward. In PvP, I may kill you for a reason, in griefing, killing you is the reason. Xsyon is a griefer's paradise, since there is no normal PvP.
I like this.
That's your definition. Not what it has been for years. So many cowards whose first mmo experience was WOW have tainted the playerbase and turned it into a bunch of cowards who would be better served playing offline games.
Here's the definition of griefing, easily found by searching on the internet
Griefer is the term for a player in an online computer game who deliberately sets out to discomfort other players.A griefer's actions (griefing) include kill stealing, player killing, team killing, stealing dropped items from a kill or during inventory reorganization or a mistake, and general harassment.
Clearly his definition is a widely accepted definition. And in regards to your comments about being 'better served playing offline games' you're point is also invalidated there as well, you don't have to play a game just to PVP, you can also play to work together with other players to achieve other goals.
So any player killing is griefing by that defintion?!?
I guess that there are 10's of millions of griefers out there playing Call of Duty right now. They should drop the ban hammer on every one of them! LOL
Thats because Call of Duty is NOT the same game as Xsyon, this comment in itself is proof enough that, there is roleplayers and then there is players that think this is only a game with targets..this made a good laugh atleast
It would appear you may have found and edited a definition to suit your point.
What is the difference between "griefing" and normal PvP? The normal PvP game has a goal, with benefits to winning. For example, you may get "Realm Points" or something to spend on improving your character skills or gear. Or, you may be attacking or defending a thing, a keep for example, and if you win or lose it it has an effect on the game. For example, take the keep and everybody gets a bonus stat. Xsyon has nothing like this. There is no actual PvP in that sense, since there is no reward for winning and no loss when you lose.
Griefing is player-vs-player too, but the goal is purely to kill the player, there is no other reward. In PvP, I may kill you for a reason, in griefing, killing you is the reason. Xsyon is a griefer's paradise, since there is no normal PvP.
I like this.
That's your definition. Not what it has been for years. So many cowards whose first mmo experience was WOW have tainted the playerbase and turned it into a bunch of cowards who would be better served playing offline games.
Just to be clear, I have never played WoW. I played DAOC and had a blast in RvR. I loved PvP then.
PvP and RvR had a purpose, there was a reason to kill someone. It was useful to take a keep, or kill off some attackers. That is PvP, at least to me.
Griefing is where you kill someone for no reason. There is nothing to gain, no points, nothing to defend. The only reason to kill someone is because you like the feeling of it. Fighting in this way is like dueling, except one player doesn't want to duel. So the net effect is that the killer likes to kill and piss off the other players. That is griefing, IMHO.
See my above post. YOu guys are rewriting the term griefer to suit your point of view and to justify your personal attacks on players like MrDDT. If a game offers open world pvp, they offer it up front, its not a supprise feature. Being pvp'd in a pvp game, is not griefing. Hell, even the GM's at Blizz agree with me. THey have stated on their own forums, there is no such thing as griefing in thier game. Since they provide all the tools for any player to quest, level, mine/herb in a safe area. A player who chooses to put themselves in a posistion to be pvp'd, does so at thier own choice and will suffer the consequences of the lasp of judgement.
Roses are red Violets are blue The reviewer has a mishapen head Which means his opinion is skewed ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
Clearly this is simply a PVP versus non-PVP argument now. But if it were focused on griefing, that term in my opinion is reserved for exploiting artificial game mechanics to cause grief. Such as camping spawn points or using hacks or exploits to disrupt other players in a way not really intended.
But if player killing is done within the rules of the game without exploits, then don't blame the player doing the killing blame the game. For instance if a game allows high level players to pick on noobs in a noob zone, then that is the fault of the game design.
But if you simply consider a player killing another player griefing just because they "had no reason" then don't play that game. How do you know what reason they had? Maybe they hate wussy flower pickers. Maybe their clan just got destroyed and they were hoping to wreak vengeance on somebody else. Maybe they were driven insane from the lonliness of the post apocolyptic wasteland. Maybe they took a stimpak for strength that made them rage. Maybe they were starving.
I think the real discussion on this topic would be: "Should Xysom change the rules such that..."
Stop trying to make players who play within the rules feel bad about it. Some of us like to PVP so if the game allows it then we will.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
You guys don't play Xsyon, do you ? There is no griefing. It's not really possible. A griefer kills another player to piss him off...in Xsyon it's very hard to kill someone. You can just turn and flee from combat.
I haven't seen a griefer in 8 weeks minimum. When I last saw one he was standing on the border of my safe zone and I was laughing at him.
PvP hardly works right now, so hardly any PvP oriented player plays the game, be it a griefer or not. Combat is under revision, so we will see after that.
I haven't seen a griefer in 8 weeks minimum. When I last saw one he was standing on the border of my safe zone and I was laughing at him.
And for those that don't like "griefers" (aka, PVP) then know that this is what you should strive for in a PVP game if you don't like PVP. There is nothing, NOTHING, that irritates a PVPer more than somebody sitting in a safe spot laughing at you. You can be an anti-PVP griefer. Set yourself up as a target, with a plan to get to a safe spot, and laugh and laugh and laugh once you get there.
Fun for everybody!
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I consider the world of Xsyon, sort of like what Fallout 3 would be like in an MMO. I'm obviously not talking about graphics here, simply the "state of the world".
And in Fallout 3, there are many ways to play the game.
You can either be the good guy, trying to help everyone.
You can either be the middle man, sometimes helping, sometimes cleaning house.
You can either be the bad guy, killing everything and everyone just "because".
People in video games, kill each just because they can.
Hey... sometimes you jump someone, sometimes you get jumped. That's quite simple.
Like many people here said, griefing is really like what people think.
It's abusing game mechanics in order to give someone else a bad day.
Sure, people cutting down all the trees isn't cool. But when you think about it, it's an excellent tactic. I'm sure our ancestors did something like that at some point when waging wars. You burn shit down to render them useless to your enemies. And hey, it works.
People call it griefing because they want a solo game without any difficulties in it. Xsyon isn't a city building simulation mmo.
I haven't seen a griefer in 8 weeks minimum. When I last saw one he was standing on the border of my safe zone and I was laughing at him.
And for those that don't like "griefers" (aka, PVP) then know that this is what you should strive for in a PVP game if you don't like PVP. There is nothing, NOTHING, that irritates a PVPer more than somebody sitting in a safe spot laughing at you. You can be an anti-PVP griefer. Set yourself up as a target, with a plan to get to a safe spot, and laugh and laugh and laugh once you get there.
Fun for everybody!
LOL on that one! So I can get my jollies by pissing off the griefers, hmm, maybe the game's not so bad
What is the difference between "griefing" and normal PvP? The normal PvP game has a goal, with benefits to winning. For example, you may get "Realm Points" or something to spend on improving your character skills or gear. Or, you may be attacking or defending a thing, a keep for example, and if you win or lose it it has an effect on the game. For example, take the keep and everybody gets a bonus stat. Xsyon has nothing like this. There is no actual PvP in that sense, since there is no reward for winning and no loss when you lose.
Griefing is player-vs-player too, but the goal is purely to kill the player, there is no other reward. In PvP, I may kill you for a reason, in griefing, killing you is the reason. Xsyon is a griefer's paradise, since there is no normal PvP.
I like this.
That's your definition. Not what it has been for years. So many cowards whose first mmo experience was WOW have tainted the playerbase and turned it into a bunch of cowards who would be better served playing offline games.
Here's the definition of griefing, easily found by searching on the internet
Griefer is the term for a player in an online computer game who deliberately sets out to discomfort other players.A griefer's actions (griefing) include kill stealing, player killing, team killing, stealing dropped items from a kill or during inventory reorganization or a mistake, and general harassment.
Clearly his definition is a widely accepted definition. And in regards to your comments about being 'better served playing offline games' you're point is also invalidated there as well, you don't have to play a game just to PVP, you can also play to work together with other players to achieve other goals.
So any player killing is griefing by that defintion?!?
I guess that there are 10's of millions of griefers out there playing Call of Duty right now. They should drop the ban hammer on every one of them! LOL
Thats because Call of Duty is NOT the same game as Xsyon, this comment in itself is proof enough that, there is roleplayers and then there is players that think this is only a game with targets..this made a good laugh atleast
It would appear you may have found and edited a definition to suit your point.
And why didn't you bother to include the informaiton in overview on your first link that reads:
A griefer is a player who does things in a game to deliberately cause annoyance ("grief" in the sense of "giving someone grief") for the griefer's own enjoyment. Such a player is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.[2]
Exact griefing methods differ from game to game. Common methods include:
Player killing in games that do not have separate areas, or an option, to keep those who want this type of gameplay from attacking those who do not.[3] This does not include games that are designed with constant player combat in mind.
Griefing is where you kill someone for no reason. There is nothing to gain, no points, nothing to defend. The only reason to kill someone is because you like the feeling of it. Fighting in this way is like dueling, except one player doesn't want to duel. So the net effect is that the killer likes to kill and piss off the other players. That is griefing, IMHO.
There's never anything to gain. Pixels don't mean anything. Killing a player in a game won't make me rich, wise, or beautiful. Victory might make me happy for a while. If they put up a good fight even better. Having a purpose will enhance the experience but don't kid yourself, it's always about defeating the human(s) on the other end of the wire. If you don't understand that don't play PvP games that have no limitations. Other people don't exist to conform to your expectations.
There is something to gain, in the context of the game. Not in reality, but that is another thread
Sneaking up on an unarmed person and killing them for no reason is why you play the game? In Xsyon, you don't get points or loot (all loot is worthless). So you play to get the emotional charge of killing a helpless person?
I loved PvP when we were attacking something, or defending something, or raiding against other fighters. A good fight against a worhty opponent and all that. PvP games that have no limitations sounds like a griefer's paradise.
This so funny and also so sad, you still don't get it do you? Im fully behind what zymurgeist said and its not hard at all to understand what he is saying.
You absolutely dont understand a word he was saying unbelievable:(
One thing is clear all you anti free for all pvp guys are happy when all free for all pvp is banished from all games even tho you dont play them and prolly find some other thing to whine about thats in your nature, what a sad world we live in:(
I enjoyed the crafting for a few weeks but got tired of griefers destroying the landscape because they were bored and using open PvP to grief anyone they could find. It's obvious the developers put little or no thought into preventing bored bad apples ruining the game for everyone. The game is in a pre-alpha state. No one would shell out $ for this if they had any idea what awated them ingame. {mod edit}
Game over.
Your own fault dont buy games and play them if you dont know anything about them specially when you hate free for all pvp.
Always when i see these topics or similar guys reply like you do, i laugh very hard and think omg there not this again:(
Stick to your themepark games you just waste your own time and ours dont embarrass yourself ok, you be alot happier:)
Investigate a game first then see if it have open free pvp if not and you can safely buy and play if it have open free pvp dont buy, its so simple:)
What is the difference between "griefing" and normal PvP? The normal PvP game has a goal, with benefits to winning. For example, you may get "Realm Points" or something to spend on improving your character skills or gear. Or, you may be attacking or defending a thing, a keep for example, and if you win or lose it it has an effect on the game. For example, take the keep and everybody gets a bonus stat. Xsyon has nothing like this. There is no actual PvP in that sense, since there is no reward for winning and no loss when you lose.
Griefing is player-vs-player too, but the goal is purely to kill the player, there is no other reward. In PvP, I may kill you for a reason, in griefing, killing you is the reason. Xsyon is a griefer's paradise, since there is no normal PvP.
I like this.
That's your definition. Not what it has been for years. So many cowards whose first mmo experience was WOW have tainted the playerbase and turned it into a bunch of cowards who would be better served playing offline games.
Here's the definition of griefing, easily found by searching on the internet
Griefer is the term for a player in an online computer game who deliberately sets out to discomfort other players.A griefer's actions (griefing) include kill stealing, player killing, team killing, stealing dropped items from a kill or during inventory reorganization or a mistake, and general harassment.
Clearly his definition is a widely accepted definition. And in regards to your comments about being 'better served playing offline games' you're point is also invalidated there as well, you don't have to play a game just to PVP, you can also play to work together with other players to achieve other goals.
So any player killing is griefing by that defintion?!?
I guess that there are 10's of millions of griefers out there playing Call of Duty right now. They should drop the ban hammer on every one of them! LOL
Thats because Call of Duty is NOT the same game as Xsyon, this comment in itself is proof enough that, there is roleplayers and then there is players that think this is only a game with targets..this made a good laugh atleast
It would appear you may have found and edited a definition to suit your point.
And why didn't you bother to include the informaiton in overview on your first link that reads:
A griefer is a player who does things in a game to deliberately cause annoyance ("grief" in the sense of "giving someone grief") for the griefer's own enjoyment. Such a player is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.[2]
Exact griefing methods differ from game to game. Common methods include:
Player killing in games that do not have separate areas, or an option, to keep those who want this type of gameplay from attacking those who do not.[3] This does not include games that are designed with constant player combat in mind.
Maybe you should revist what you originally posted and compare it to the definition you post above. They do not mean the same. It clearly does not say player killing is griefing.
Roses are red Violets are blue The reviewer has a mishapen head Which means his opinion is skewed ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
Its pretty simple any game that has free for all PVP and especially full loot is just another way to say we have nothing really to do in our game, we dont have the resources do it so heres a an empty gameworld to kill each other in. These indie devs are then at least gaurenteed SOME subs. That small band of players that move from Free for all PVP game to game as they shrival and die and soon replaced by another game.
None of it matters..! Since many have been around bfore the word "griefing" was invented, or used the word before it was defined.
Any unwanted player vs player combat, is essentially griefing. Because back in the day, if you ATTEMPTED to engage, some people built their characters to avoid conflict within a game world & just eluded you. While others, created characters just to create conflict & who arbitrailly fought for no reason, were also deemed criminals and lived a hard life.
Coincidentally, any offensive combat toward another player, in which that player defends offensively.. is PvP.
But, today, criminals and griefers have no hardhips within a world faction games. Thus, a greifers role in MMORPG are for amusement, not the unique hardship & required style the must endure. So people see others as targets, because they FEEL a PvP game means a FPS game.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
None of it matters..! Since many have been around bfore the word "griefing" was invented, or used the word before it was defined.
Any unwanted player vs player combat, is essentially griefing. Because back in the day, if you ATTEMPTED to engage, some people built their characters to avoid conflict within a game world & just eluded you. While others, created characters just to create conflict & who arbitrailly fought for no reason, were also deemed criminals and lived a hard life.
Coincidentally, any offensive combat toward another player, in which that player defends offensively.. is PvP.
But, today, criminals and griefers have no hardhips within a world faction games. Thus, a greifers role in MMORPG are for amusement, not the unique hardship & required style the must endure. So people see others as targets, because they FEEL a PvP game means a FPS game.
None of it matters..! Since many have been around bfore the word "griefing" was invented, or used the word before it was defined.
Any unwanted player vs player combat, is essentially griefing. Because back in the day, if you ATTEMPTED to engage, some people built their characters to avoid conflict within a game world & just eluded you. While others, created characters just to create conflict & who arbitrailly fought for no reason, were also deemed criminals and lived a hard life.
Coincidentally, any offensive combat toward another player, in which that player defends offensively.. is PvP.
But, today, criminals and griefers have no hardhips within a world faction games. Thus, a greifers role in MMORPG are for amusement, not the unique hardship & required style the must endure. So people see others as targets, because they FEEL a PvP game means a FPS game.
Again nobody force you to buy a game that have open pvp and if the game give you the freedom to play as you wish players should make up the rules by acting on those who challenge you or kill you, if you get ganked, get your clan and hunt down this guy hunt down his clan and destroy them. Dont come to forums and rage quit becouse your ganked thats pathetic.
It dont matter what its called, griefers or not, as long its open and free your aloud whatever you want and those who are victem should play smarter and do something about it instead crying that they wanne be left alone how sad can you be?
Btw im no ganker no griefer no pker if they try kill me in whatever situation i eather try fight back run or make sure i get my revenge i dont say word ever, i comeback alone or with my clan and take my revenge make KOS list and even if it takes weeks months i will eventually get my revenege one way or another.
What is the difference between "griefing" and normal PvP? The normal PvP game has a goal, with benefits to winning. For example, you may get "Realm Points" or something to spend on improving your character skills or gear. Or, you may be attacking or defending a thing, a keep for example, and if you win or lose it it has an effect on the game. For example, take the keep and everybody gets a bonus stat. Xsyon has nothing like this. There is no actual PvP in that sense, since there is no reward for winning and no loss when you lose.
Griefing is player-vs-player too, but the goal is purely to kill the player, there is no other reward. In PvP, I may kill you for a reason, in griefing, killing you is the reason. Xsyon is a griefer's paradise, since there is no normal PvP.
I like this.
That's your definition. Not what it has been for years. So many cowards whose first mmo experience was WOW have tainted the playerbase and turned it into a bunch of cowards who would be better served playing offline games.
Here's the definition of griefing, easily found by searching on the internet
Griefer is the term for a player in an online computer game who deliberately sets out to discomfort other players.A griefer's actions (griefing) include kill stealing, player killing, team killing, stealing dropped items from a kill or during inventory reorganization or a mistake, and general harassment.
Clearly his definition is a widely accepted definition. And in regards to your comments about being 'better served playing offline games' you're point is also invalidated there as well, you don't have to play a game just to PVP, you can also play to work together with other players to achieve other goals.
So any player killing is griefing by that defintion?!?
I guess that there are 10's of millions of griefers out there playing Call of Duty right now. They should drop the ban hammer on every one of them! LOL
Thats because Call of Duty is NOT the same game as Xsyon, this comment in itself is proof enough that, there is roleplayers and then there is players that think this is only a game with targets..this made a good laugh atleast
It would appear you may have found and edited a definition to suit your point.
And why didn't you bother to include the informaiton in overview on your first link that reads:
A griefer is a player who does things in a game to deliberately cause annoyance ("grief" in the sense of "giving someone grief") for the griefer's own enjoyment. Such a player is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.[2]
Exact griefing methods differ from game to game. Common methods include:
Player killing in games that do not have separate areas, or an option, to keep those who want this type of gameplay from attacking those who do not.[3] This does not include games that are designed with constant player combat in mind.
Maybe you should revist what you originally posted and compare it to the definition you post above. They do not mean the same. It clearly does not say player killing is griefing.
The part in red, in my view fits MMORPGs. The Part in Green fits FPS as they are designed for constant player combat. MMORPG's are not designed for contstant player combat in mind, otherwise there'd be no crafting, questing, etc There'd only be player vs player combat.
What is the difference between "griefing" and normal PvP? The normal PvP game has a goal, with benefits to winning. For example, you may get "Realm Points" or something to spend on improving your character skills or gear. Or, you may be attacking or defending a thing, a keep for example, and if you win or lose it it has an effect on the game. For example, take the keep and everybody gets a bonus stat. Xsyon has nothing like this. There is no actual PvP in that sense, since there is no reward for winning and no loss when you lose.
Griefing is player-vs-player too, but the goal is purely to kill the player, there is no other reward. In PvP, I may kill you for a reason, in griefing, killing you is the reason. Xsyon is a griefer's paradise, since there is no normal PvP.
Well his reward would have been living and not dieing. Got to keep his stuff and take the other guys loot. his goal was to kill you and take you stuff. your goal was to run or fight.
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
What is the difference between "griefing" and normal PvP? The normal PvP game has a goal, with benefits to winning. For example, you may get "Realm Points" or something to spend on improving your character skills or gear. Or, you may be attacking or defending a thing, a keep for example, and if you win or lose it it has an effect on the game. For example, take the keep and everybody gets a bonus stat. Xsyon has nothing like this. There is no actual PvP in that sense, since there is no reward for winning and no loss when you lose.
Griefing is player-vs-player too, but the goal is purely to kill the player, there is no other reward. In PvP, I may kill you for a reason, in griefing, killing you is the reason. Xsyon is a griefer's paradise, since there is no normal PvP.
Well his reward would have been living and not dieing. Got to keep his stuff and take the other guys loot. his goal was to kill you and take you stuff. your goal was to run or fight.
This is exactly the way it is supposed to be. Now, take away looting. (In Xsyon, there is almost no loot worth anything, so looting has no purpose.) Now his goal is just to kill me.
Let's turn it around for a second. If I AM a griefer, what kind of game do I want to play? A free-for-all PvP game with no restrictions, and no barriers to griefing. Like Xsyon. A game like DAOC that has penalties for losing PvP, and requires quite a bit of work just to get to a PvP level would be much harder to grief in. Xsyon has no work to start PvP'ing, has no penalties for losing. That would be a griefer's paradise.
Just to clarify my personal position before I get accused again: I am not a WOW kiddee, I played years of PvP in multpile MMO's, I bought Xsyon knowing it was FFA and don't mind it. I am not whining about being killed. I am actually interested in game design and what "griefing" is and how to discourage it. What kind of game attacts griefers and what kind doesn't. That is why I am posting.
I am saying that a game that has no structured PvP, no loot worth stealing, nothing to protect, nothing to take away, no bonuses to PvP, with no barriers to PvP and no penalties, that game is a griefer's paradise.
I am saying that a game that has no structured PvP, no loot worth stealing, nothing to protect, nothing to take away, no bonuses to PvP, with no barriers to PvP and no penalties, that game is a griefer's paradise.
Sadly, that description applies to Xsyon in general atm, not just to the PvP component... there's just not really any reason to play, other than grinding your skills in preparation for the day when they will be usefull. And nobody knows when that day will come...
Griefing is where you kill someone for no reason. There is nothing to gain, no points, nothing to defend. The only reason to kill someone is because you like the feeling of it. Fighting in this way is like dueling, except one player doesn't want to duel. So the net effect is that the killer likes to kill and piss off the other players. That is griefing, IMHO.
There's never anything to gain. Pixels don't mean anything. Killing a player in a game won't make me rich, wise, or beautiful. Victory might make me happy for a while. If they put up a good fight even better. Having a purpose will enhance the experience but don't kid yourself, it's always about defeating the human(s) on the other end of the wire. If you don't understand that don't play PvP games that have no limitations. Other people don't exist to conform to your expectations.
There is something to gain, in the context of the game. Not in reality, but that is another thread
Sneaking up on an unarmed person and killing them for no reason is why you play the game? In Xsyon, you don't get points or loot (all loot is worthless). So you play to get the emotional charge of killing a helpless person?
I loved PvP when we were attacking something, or defending something, or raiding against other fighters. A good fight against a worhty opponent and all that. PvP games that have no limitations sounds like a griefer's paradise.
Go back and read what was written. Pixels are meaningless. In or out of the game. I play the game for PvP. If they don't choose to fight oh well. If they do even better. If they win that's fine too. "griefers paradise" You mean like Xsyon? Why do you fret about it so? Does losing make you feel bad? Why? It's meaningless.
Your comment conflicts with your reasoning. If losing is meaningless, then so is winning, and if both are meaningless then so is participating in either. So why do you play for PvP, if it is in fact meaningless?
Comments
Just to be clear, I have never played WoW. I played DAOC and had a blast in RvR. I loved PvP then.
PvP and RvR had a purpose, there was a reason to kill someone. It was useful to take a keep, or kill off some attackers. That is PvP, at least to me.
Griefing is where you kill someone for no reason. There is nothing to gain, no points, nothing to defend. The only reason to kill someone is because you like the feeling of it. Fighting in this way is like dueling, except one player doesn't want to duel. So the net effect is that the killer likes to kill and piss off the other players. That is griefing, IMHO.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
This is supposed to be after the apocolypse. Nobody is going around killing everyone for no reason, everybody is just trying to survive. The person who does go around just killing everybody is a criminal or insane. A griefer.
Now give us some goals, something to defend and attack, and everything changes. Give me a pumpkin patch to defend, and let others attack it to get the food. That's PvP with a goal. That is what should be in this game. With nothing to defend, nothing to attack, and no risk/reward to look at, player killing is simply griefing unless it is consensual.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
There is something to gain, in the context of the game. Not in reality, but that is another thread
Sneaking up on an unarmed person and killing them for no reason is why you play the game? In Xsyon, you don't get points or loot (all loot is worthless). So you play to get the emotional charge of killing a helpless person?
I loved PvP when we were attacking something, or defending something, or raiding against other fighters. A good fight against a worhty opponent and all that. PvP games that have no limitations sounds like a griefer's paradise.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
It would appear you may have found and edited a definition to suit your point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer
Does not agreee with you.
http://internetgames.about.com/od/glossary/g/griefer.htm
Also, does not agree with you.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
See my above post. YOu guys are rewriting the term griefer to suit your point of view and to justify your personal attacks on players like MrDDT. If a game offers open world pvp, they offer it up front, its not a supprise feature. Being pvp'd in a pvp game, is not griefing. Hell, even the GM's at Blizz agree with me. THey have stated on their own forums, there is no such thing as griefing in thier game. Since they provide all the tools for any player to quest, level, mine/herb in a safe area. A player who chooses to put themselves in a posistion to be pvp'd, does so at thier own choice and will suffer the consequences of the lasp of judgement.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
Clearly this is simply a PVP versus non-PVP argument now. But if it were focused on griefing, that term in my opinion is reserved for exploiting artificial game mechanics to cause grief. Such as camping spawn points or using hacks or exploits to disrupt other players in a way not really intended.
But if player killing is done within the rules of the game without exploits, then don't blame the player doing the killing blame the game. For instance if a game allows high level players to pick on noobs in a noob zone, then that is the fault of the game design.
But if you simply consider a player killing another player griefing just because they "had no reason" then don't play that game. How do you know what reason they had? Maybe they hate wussy flower pickers. Maybe their clan just got destroyed and they were hoping to wreak vengeance on somebody else. Maybe they were driven insane from the lonliness of the post apocolyptic wasteland. Maybe they took a stimpak for strength that made them rage. Maybe they were starving.
I think the real discussion on this topic would be: "Should Xysom change the rules such that..."
Stop trying to make players who play within the rules feel bad about it. Some of us like to PVP so if the game allows it then we will.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
You guys don't play Xsyon, do you ? There is no griefing. It's not really possible. A griefer kills another player to piss him off...in Xsyon it's very hard to kill someone. You can just turn and flee from combat.
I haven't seen a griefer in 8 weeks minimum. When I last saw one he was standing on the border of my safe zone and I was laughing at him.
PvP hardly works right now, so hardly any PvP oriented player plays the game, be it a griefer or not. Combat is under revision, so we will see after that.
And for those that don't like "griefers" (aka, PVP) then know that this is what you should strive for in a PVP game if you don't like PVP. There is nothing, NOTHING, that irritates a PVPer more than somebody sitting in a safe spot laughing at you. You can be an anti-PVP griefer. Set yourself up as a target, with a plan to get to a safe spot, and laugh and laugh and laugh once you get there.
Fun for everybody!
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I consider the world of Xsyon, sort of like what Fallout 3 would be like in an MMO. I'm obviously not talking about graphics here, simply the "state of the world".
And in Fallout 3, there are many ways to play the game.
You can either be the good guy, trying to help everyone.
You can either be the middle man, sometimes helping, sometimes cleaning house.
You can either be the bad guy, killing everything and everyone just "because".
People in video games, kill each just because they can.
Hey... sometimes you jump someone, sometimes you get jumped. That's quite simple.
Like many people here said, griefing is really like what people think.
Here is an EXCELLENT example of griefing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl0VWJdE01M
It's abusing game mechanics in order to give someone else a bad day.
Sure, people cutting down all the trees isn't cool. But when you think about it, it's an excellent tactic. I'm sure our ancestors did something like that at some point when waging wars. You burn shit down to render them useless to your enemies. And hey, it works.
People call it griefing because they want a solo game without any difficulties in it. Xsyon isn't a city building simulation mmo.
LOL on that one! So I can get my jollies by pissing off the griefers, hmm, maybe the game's not so bad
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
closed my account today also, nothing to do with pvp, just a bad boring game.. $40 and 1 payment of no fun Owell moving on..
I edited nothing... when I ran a search this was the first site that came up for me
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Griefer
And why didn't you bother to include the informaiton in overview on your first link that reads:
A griefer is a player who does things in a game to deliberately cause annoyance ("grief" in the sense of "giving someone grief") for the griefer's own enjoyment. Such a player is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.[2]
Exact griefing methods differ from game to game. Common methods include:
Player killing in games that do not have separate areas, or an option, to keep those who want this type of gameplay from attacking those who do not.[3] This does not include games that are designed with constant player combat in mind.
This so funny and also so sad, you still don't get it do you? Im fully behind what zymurgeist said and its not hard at all to understand what he is saying.
You absolutely dont understand a word he was saying unbelievable:(
One thing is clear all you anti free for all pvp guys are happy when all free for all pvp is banished from all games even tho you dont play them and prolly find some other thing to whine about thats in your nature, what a sad world we live in:(
Your own fault dont buy games and play them if you dont know anything about them specially when you hate free for all pvp.
Always when i see these topics or similar guys reply like you do, i laugh very hard and think omg there not this again:(
Stick to your themepark games you just waste your own time and ours dont embarrass yourself ok, you be alot happier:)
Investigate a game first then see if it have open free pvp if not and you can safely buy and play if it have open free pvp dont buy, its so simple:)
Maybe you should revist what you originally posted and compare it to the definition you post above. They do not mean the same. It clearly does not say player killing is griefing.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
Its pretty simple any game that has free for all PVP and especially full loot is just another way to say we have nothing really to do in our game, we dont have the resources do it so heres a an empty gameworld to kill each other in. These indie devs are then at least gaurenteed SOME subs. That small band of players that move from Free for all PVP game to game as they shrival and die and soon replaced by another game.
None of it matters..! Since many have been around bfore the word "griefing" was invented, or used the word before it was defined.
Any unwanted player vs player combat, is essentially griefing. Because back in the day, if you ATTEMPTED to engage, some people built their characters to avoid conflict within a game world & just eluded you. While others, created characters just to create conflict & who arbitrailly fought for no reason, were also deemed criminals and lived a hard life.
Coincidentally, any offensive combat toward another player, in which that player defends offensively.. is PvP.
But, today, criminals and griefers have no hardhips within a world faction games. Thus, a greifers role in MMORPG are for amusement, not the unique hardship & required style the must endure. So people see others as targets, because they FEEL a PvP game means a FPS game.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Wow excelllent points.
Again nobody force you to buy a game that have open pvp and if the game give you the freedom to play as you wish players should make up the rules by acting on those who challenge you or kill you, if you get ganked, get your clan and hunt down this guy hunt down his clan and destroy them. Dont come to forums and rage quit becouse your ganked thats pathetic.
It dont matter what its called, griefers or not, as long its open and free your aloud whatever you want and those who are victem should play smarter and do something about it instead crying that they wanne be left alone how sad can you be?
Btw im no ganker no griefer no pker if they try kill me in whatever situation i eather try fight back run or make sure i get my revenge i dont say word ever, i comeback alone or with my clan and take my revenge make KOS list and even if it takes weeks months i will eventually get my revenege one way or another.
The part in red, in my view fits MMORPGs. The Part in Green fits FPS as they are designed for constant player combat. MMORPG's are not designed for contstant player combat in mind, otherwise there'd be no crafting, questing, etc There'd only be player vs player combat.
Well his reward would have been living and not dieing. Got to keep his stuff and take the other guys loot. his goal was to kill you and take you stuff. your goal was to run or fight.
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
This is exactly the way it is supposed to be. Now, take away looting. (In Xsyon, there is almost no loot worth anything, so looting has no purpose.) Now his goal is just to kill me.
Let's turn it around for a second. If I AM a griefer, what kind of game do I want to play? A free-for-all PvP game with no restrictions, and no barriers to griefing. Like Xsyon. A game like DAOC that has penalties for losing PvP, and requires quite a bit of work just to get to a PvP level would be much harder to grief in. Xsyon has no work to start PvP'ing, has no penalties for losing. That would be a griefer's paradise.
Just to clarify my personal position before I get accused again: I am not a WOW kiddee, I played years of PvP in multpile MMO's, I bought Xsyon knowing it was FFA and don't mind it. I am not whining about being killed. I am actually interested in game design and what "griefing" is and how to discourage it. What kind of game attacts griefers and what kind doesn't. That is why I am posting.
I am saying that a game that has no structured PvP, no loot worth stealing, nothing to protect, nothing to take away, no bonuses to PvP, with no barriers to PvP and no penalties, that game is a griefer's paradise.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Sadly, that description applies to Xsyon in general atm, not just to the PvP component... there's just not really any reason to play, other than grinding your skills in preparation for the day when they will be usefull. And nobody knows when that day will come...
Your comment conflicts with your reasoning. If losing is meaningless, then so is winning, and if both are meaningless then so is participating in either. So why do you play for PvP, if it is in fact meaningless?
Please keep discussions civil, guys. Personal attacks are not permitted. Thanks.
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