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What will be your counter class and which class will you dominate?
caremuchless
Member Posts: 603
No matter the game, no matter the skill level, there is always a class that will counter the class you play, the one that challenges the class you play , more than any of the others.
As an example, I played a Rogue in WoW and without a doubt, Paladins were my Counter and Warlocks+Hunters 9 times out of 10 were my easy win.
What class will you play and what class do you think could possibly be your counter?
What class will you dominate?
Before someone tells me about skill and bla blas on about how anyone can beat anyone and how we dont even know what these classes can do, get over yourself **NEWSFLASH THIS IS ALL HYPOTHETICAL** Have fun and lets all argue about we dont even know yet!!
Comments
It is not exactly the same in GW1 and I don't think it will be the same in GW2 either.
Most GW1 classes have certain speccs that are better and worse against other speccs.
In games like Wow most of the skills you have are the same, you get a few different one from speccing but you can't compare that to when you pick all your skills from a list.
And more skills will be added that leads to new speccs that adds to it later.
Thats true to a point in WoW. You might share some of the same abilities, but different sets of talents are complete different playstyles.
Not that it matters for the sake of this thread, cough *hypothetical* cough.
If GW2 plays like this, where 1 class will lose 90% of the time to another class but dominate others, it will have failed to live up to the standard set by GW1.
Guild Wars is all about flexibility, about having access to so many different skills that you can hypothetically set up to face any particular foe. The idea is to have the flexibility to spec for one thing or another, just because you see say, a ranger on the other side doesn't mean your victory is guaranteed if you are an elementalist, as you have no way to know how that ranger is specced.
This is what made gw1 successful and dumbing it down to a WoW based rock/paper/scissors rigid class type of deal would be a betrayal of what guid wars stands for.
The idea always was and hopefully sill remain more like mtg where you don't know exactly what skills the other guy(s) are bringing to the table, so ou have a general team/individual strategy and hope you have enough counters as a whole to make up for weaknesses of individuals on the team.
You guys really have to stop likening GW2 to that of the Holy Trinity styled mmo's. You can't base this off of your past experience with mmo's OP. GW2 didn't look to many mmo's for their inspiration with PvP. They looked at different types of games such as, TF2, fps games, and a structure for battlefields from DAoC. In FPS, there is no setup that automatically trumps another. If you are skilled enough you can beat your opponent.
In GW2 it will be like this. You will have equally powered tools at hands to your opponents, but your styles will vary and whoever employs the best strategy and executes it on the fly will win. Specs are another thing that will behave differently in GW2. I don't believe that just because this guy is specced this way, he will not be able to beat his opponent who is specced in a counterous way. No, it will be more of flavor given in your actions, and its affect will be seen greater in group combat. That is where specs will play a huge role. People's, specs will determine how they work together, and how they react to other enemies plans. There isn't going to be automatic setups that automatically win in this game. If you paid attention to the interviews, you would see that the dev's have said there are even groups running something close to 5 wars. This game is a different breed. Look at a mix of FPS as far as builds matter, not twitch combat. This is how GW2 will most likely opperate in PvP.
Since you're able to switch weapon sets on the fly, changing your first five skills, I don't think there will be Rock, Paper, Scissors situation.
Although I can imagine that as a Necromancer with minions, Thieves will probably one of the easiest kills, and Elementalists with their many AoE skills will probably be one of the hardest.
Just to say hypothetically i will probably be a guardian and assuming that this will be the tank class i should be able to kill the theive class no problem just like how i can kill sins with my warrior in the first one. The class that will probably beat me will more then likely be the engineer or the ranger by keeping a good distances from me and slowwing me down so that i cant reach them.
If I had access to the win loss ratio between all FPS classes in a given game, I am POSITIVE that the numbers would show patterns. Now does that mean that one class will always dominate another, no. But it does show at the very least that some classes have a slight inherent edge. Notice I said slight.
Hypothetical situation,
If you were a thief and your goal was to set out to find the best way to kill engineers, lets call them Bomb Engineers and you specced that way.
And your buddy the Warrior also wanted to have an edge over those Bomb engineers and he specced in a way that might give him an edge as well.
And the engineer, well dmn, he just cant stand melee getting in his way and he takes a spec that is far more survivable and he picks up talents that allow him to give both warriors and rogues a tough fight.
Lets assume all partys are of equal skill and the engineer duels the warrior 100 times and he duels the rogue 100 times.
If the engineer struggles against the rogue and the warrior, someones killing him faster--thus easier, thats an edge.
Not to mention, the Engineer will have an idea of who the easier fight is.
Yes I know a million other variables come into it. But at the very least there are small advantages one class and spec will hold against another. Its inevitable. Just because there may be some FPS characteristics, does not make it untrue.
Thank you, I am glad 1 out of 4 understood.
Didn't they say that classes would be so balanced that not one class could have the advantage over another in a way that it would make more players pick that class. Besides I never understood why you would want to just play the most powerful class if there was a clear advantage, makes no sense. Basically just to kill others easier? So your interest for the actual game is nill because you just want to be the best PVP class? I always see these kinds of responses, what class is best in PVP. They don't care for anything else, even if they hate that class or race combo or whatever as long as it's got an advantage in PVP. I can't make sense of it. Is it PWNED YOU SYNDROME?
No he didn't understand because he doesn't understand the basic concepts of GW2 that is laid out plain and open by the devs. The Guardian will not be a tank like it is in WoW, now I know he did not exactly say that, but he might as well have because he said the Guardian will be the tanky class, and thieves will probably be the easier kill for him just like with my Warrior in WoW with Rogues. That couldn't be further from the truth. The Guardian will have a lot of group utility with shields and such, but what ANet has constantly stressed is that you will always be offensive. This means that you're not going to have builds that specialize in absorbing dmg. and keeping your team in safety and that's it. No, you will also be a big dmg. dealer as well. Also, there is no tanks, if you play a Guardian like a WoW Warrior against a Thief you will be dead.
Now I understand your argument with FPS balancing, but what I was trying to stress is that FPS balancing is wayyyy closer to balance achieved than is Trinity based mmo's, and you do have the capabilities to dispatch of any class with any class. Some may be slightly more powerful, but it's nothing like you see in certain themepark games. And, that is what I and others are trying to stress there will be no rock, paper, scissors, it's going to be much more FPS like. You will be able to kill anyone.
Also, the thing about builds, is that it's not like a spec tree in any other game, it is a trait system. Traits add some varying affects or stats to some of your skills, this allows for different playstyles to emenate with different weapon builds. But, it will not change your class so much that the engineer will not be able to beat them even in their spec with tools that are better at fighting them. Remember this is not gonna be some talent tree system game, traits will not make you a whole completely different spec that is not resemblant of the others. If you looked at what I said about specs, is that traits are gonna be more of a flavor added to your class that shines more in group situations rather than in 1v1. Going back to FPS, it is like different classes with different setups can kill any other class with any setup, but those setups are what determines how their groups will fight, and shows its flavor in group situations more than in single situations. I guess, I'm trying to say that unlike other mmo's we are used to, class comp and builds are not going to win the fight. But, how you opperate with the classes your group has at its disposal and how you enact your plans is what will be the deciding factor.
I'll be thief and I'll probably dominate engineer because of my stealth. It will be more difficult against elementalist for example because he can use static field and brake my stealth and stun me, leaving me vurneable for ele's powerfull spells.
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OP, you have to understand that even in Guild Wars 1, how people played the game was dynamic. If someone found a kick ass build, then chances are within a few weeks, someone is going to find a build that counters that. What you're basically saying is that if someone says "Every class can beat any class" is a cop out. It's not. GW2 looks to be even more dynamic so how the game is played will always change based on the communities development in the game itself.
Hypothetically, every class has an advantage in some way shape or form, but there's always a BUILD, not a class that can counter the other. That's how it works in Guild Wars. Usually not by class but by skill sets. They never stay the same.
Hypothetic discussions are pretty much pointless so I don't know why you created this thread. I know it's mostly just all in good fun and keeps you busy, but it really doesn't create good discussion especially when we already have a basic idea on how the game works.
Well I'm going to play Elementalist, and I do think that my counter is gonna be guardian, due to that he can reflect and protect himself from most of my powerful spells, but I will soon find a spec that would kill him, but I don't think there will be persons I can just kill like that, because the specs you make aren't the same as wow, wow you just got all the abillities as a class, in guild wars you have to choose *some* of the abilities, so I might have some abillities that are good agianst a person, but he will proberly try some new spells till he can counter me, only time will tell thought ;3
A knife wielding thief you can easily take down like that, yes. But one that wields 2 pistols akimbo style? It should be able to deal nasty damage enough on the same range as the engineer. Assassins don't have that options in GW1.
Don't forget that warriors can use muskets either. They can probably do some serious damage long range as well.
My point anyways, as I said before, is that it depends on the skills and what weapons the opponent uses. Their will be no surefire rock, scissors and paper that some games have.
My counter class will be the Frequently Underhanded Citizen Killer with On the Fly Flexibility...and thats what I will tell those rotten thieves in game.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
ill roll a counter to whatever the OP chooses. i hate these *HYPOTHETICAL* threads where the OP thinks everyone is stupid for not understanding his meaningless question.
Im gonna be a super saiyan martial artist. nothing will stand in my way.
I will play a thief which dominates other thieves and my counter class will be a thief.
It's really a cookie cutter triangle/circle situation where thief beats thief, thief beats thief, and thief beats thief.
Tbh it will be more like which weapons & traits you have, not which class you are in guild wars 2.
In WoW only customization you were able to do to your character were talents (3 to choose from) and in most cases only 1 tree was ''the spec'' for PvP. Leading to ''this class beats this class''
Anyway on topic I will be Ranger and I see myself beating melee classes by ease with shortbow/Sword & X weapon set.
I will see myself losing to high dmg ranged classes like Elementalist, since atm I feel like ranger dmg is not so high and not so bursty so unless I dodge all high dmg spells I will get nuked faster than I could nuke him.
Or Necromancer with high health pool and hp drain abitilies.
But tho maby longbow dmg will be enough + having axe in offhand makes me able to send enemy spells/abitilies back to the caster, so maby I can win those also.... blah no I think I suck at this. Sorry can't do it
I am ranger & I win every class, done yay cya
There are easier ways of saying "Fuck You".
Well, those high damage nukes usually takes a little time to cast. Get interupts on your pet and he can forget his meteor shower and other really damaging attacks. Of course he can counter this by taking fast less damage attack....
I am assumeng we are talking about a fire ele here. I can tell you as a ele a pet that hacks on you is pretty annoying to say the least.
There are counter builds to any build and any class.GW1 had a few classes that got problems with some other, mainly assassins and monks, it seems like GW2 will be somewhat better there but you could of course multicalss in GW1 if you really needed to beat a build.
If you think that a certain class will rule your class then you either don't understand the concept or you need to get better at making builds. Guildwars have to many skill combinations.
Guardian will be my main, but I am going to use Warrior for tournament and professional league play..
Every mmo I have ever played, no matter the tweaks to the class systems/skills/etc, has led me to believe that there would always be counter classes. That one class that just has your number or at the very least an edge over you.
I thought the same thing with Guild Wars 2.
I can hear it now... "Well then you must not of done your research!"
When you see something done close to that one way in SOO many games, for so many years, well, the details of GW2 and what is typicall in a mmo, merge at some level.
So while I understand that there is active dodging, everyone can do dmg, there is no trinity system, traits, etc etc etc---I held the idea that classes would have advantages, possibly counter classes.
Per this thread, I don't think any of the thought out replies are "stupid". At first glance (with my 3 am eyes/brain), I thought the replies might of been a bit dogmatic. Have you ever talked to someone that absolutely made you ask the specific right question before they would really answer you?
If GW1 is any indication.. I think the mesmer will be everyone's worst nightmare.
Eat me!