For some reason I was thinking it was that way. Like I said its been about 4 months, since I'ved signed in.
Forgive me if I forget a few details.
No worries I just want to make sure you get the best number you can for accuracy and honesty.
It seems we have a rogue around here who thinks clickies should not be counted on. This is the difference between people who spend every feat and enhancement point on a build and think it is a must and people who know what you can avoid wasting points on to use them elsewhere.
Ok account for a decent spec and say 62, which would be more than what Roku said because the person would be spending 14 points which (while not much) they would have likely pushed into attack training and accuracy according to Roku's DPS focus, not to mention the prereqs for assassin or acrobat. Which means you would in fact be losing DPS.
As well as the fact that they're relying on a clickie and a buff. which I guess is just a personal peeve of mine.
Lets grant that 62. Sure fine you can complete all the quests you'd hope on normal then given their DCs are generally in the 60-70s.
Stop asserting wrongly though that hard and elite, needless to say epic raids, are going to be successful too. I'm granting leniency here, because this is not my spec. I game a gimped estimate because that is the way Roku described the spec.
And Roku I stated my preference and prefaced it by saying I take an extreem. So please don't mindlessly bash.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Ok account for a decent spec and say 62, which would be more than what Roku said because the person would be spending 14 points which (while not much) they would have likely pushed into attack training and accuracy according to Roku's DPS focus, not to mention the prereqs for assassin or acrobat. Which means you would in fact be losing DPS.
As well as the fact that they're relying on a clickie and a buff. which I guess is just a personal peeve of mine.
Lets grant that 62. Sure fine you can complete all the quests you'd hope on normal then given their DCs are generally in the 60-70s.
Stop asserting wrongly though that hard and elite, needless to say epic raids, are going to be successful too. I'm granting leniency here, because this is not my spec. I game a gimped estimate because that is the way Roku described the spec.
And Roku I stated my preference and prefaced it by saying I take an extreem. So please don't mindlessly bash.
Again those 14 point MAY NOT gimp DPS in any way. Without a full planner here i can not tell you for sure, but even with prereqs for assassin you have left over points. Some people spend them in toughness or whatever, you can spend them on traps and have ZERO negative effect on DPS and trapping.
The fact you take it to extremes but avoid clickies and buffs is not a preference, its gimping your character in an unneeded way and then claiming you HAVE to take feats and other stuff to meet the DCs. This is false. You can use buffs and clickies to meet the same Dcs and not gimp DPS.
You are over stating trap DCs. Losing DPS is not the same as the original argument in which I was told WRONGLY that you can not do both well. You can have top end DPS along with top end trapping in DDO. Will it be the MAX DPS ROGUE? No but to do that you build no trap skill and in general are a wasted party slot since the gained DPS is minimal for the sacrifice.
Keep in mind the original argument was that pure Trap Rogues are needed and good, when if you ask anyone in DDO who knows high end content they will tell you that such a rogue is not wanted.
I've been looking at DDOwiki and the compendium for the trap DCs.
And as for your gimp comment. No.
I say I design my character to not rely on clickies ad buffs. I spec my character to never fail any check for DD, OL, search, spot, UMD, reflex, hide, move silently, and for fun balance, jump, and tumble. It is a preference.
More so mechanic requires less enhancement points to stat that the assassin spec does, which leaves me room to still spec into the DPS enhancing skills there, where as the assassin spec has less.
Same is the case for feats, putting the skill boosts first and attack second I still have roughly half of my feats dedicated enhancing my combat. One benefitting both (a tr feat).
All in all my rogue actually loses about 3-18 damage, 6 accuracy, and the ability to vorp on a confirmed crit while sneak attacking to instead be able to not care at all about skill check probability, use repeaters for better renged damage (than well any other range than spells) on top of having it as an efficient crowd control tool, and effective use of craftables to give me 50-300 burst damage (which is better and more frequent that what vorp is now at 100), haven't lost anything in the way of defense and health, and on top of that I have a large range of group assistance external to combat.
So yeah, I lost a bit of direct damage and to-hit in favor of larger damage and a plethora of goodies.
That's so terrible.
EDIT: scratch that, I only lost three on my to-hit in total so far
Also I didn't claim you 'have' to take anything. I said that I don't use or rely on them, that doesn't mean I excluded them from the calculations. The numbers I gave for you include clickies and buffs in them. On my own character however I set them up to have higher base stats so they do not need the clickies and buffs(though I do have them in case I ever want overkill or to do a quest that's very far out of my level range just to brag).
EDIT2: I keep asking in game and it seems people like rogue mechanics just fine and are generally in favor of 'trapmonkeys'. Dunno what that means about your comment, maybe differences in server population between argo and whatever one ye play on.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I've been looking at DDOwiki and the compendium for the trap DCs.
And as for your gimp comment. No.
I say I design my character to not rely on clickies ad buffs. I spec my character to never fail any check for DD, OL, search, spot, UMD, reflex, hide, move silently, and for fun balance, jump, and tumble. It is a preference.
More so mechanic requires less enhancement points to stat that the assassin spec does, which leaves me room to still spec into the DPS enhancing skills there, where as the assassin spec has less.
Same is the case for feats, putting the skill boosts first and attack second I still have roughly half of my feats dedicated enhancing my combat. One benefitting both (a tr feat).
All in all my rogue actually loses about 3-18 damage, 6 accuracy, and the ability to vorp on a confirmed crit while sneak attacking to instead be able to not care at all about skill check probability, use repeaters for better renged damage (than well any other range than spells) on top of having it as an efficient crowd control tool, and effective use of craftables to give me 50-300 burst damage (which is better and more frequent that what vorp is now at 100), haven't lost anything in the way of defense and health, and on top of that I have a large range of group assistance external to combat.
So yeah, I lost a bit of direct damage and to-hit in favor of larger damage and a plethora of goodies.
That's so terrible.
EDIT: scratch that, I only lost three on my to-hit in total so far
EDIT2: I keep asking in game and it seems people like rogue mechanics just fine and are generally in favor of 'trapmonkeys'. Dunno what that means about your comment, maybe differences in server population between argo and whatever one ye play on.
Who said rogue mechanics were bad? I said Turbine made it easy to build a rogue that does both traps and real DPS.
Trap monkeys that can not DPS are found to be useless in high level areas. Asking people in general chat who are 99% new and generally not that good will get you that answer I am sure. If I ask mediocre players if they love and need a cleric they will all say says as well. You are asking the kind of people who turn down FVS for groups because they say they want a real healer. Its not like you are asking an informed group.
Nice assumption you just made about the entire populace of a server and who I have asked.
And as for the rest of the comment. What do they do to be a trap monkey then? Spec all int?
Rogue mechanic is the trap monkey spec. Hence going mechanic is part of being a trap monkey and being geared for traps over dps.
The possibility of what you say and the problem I have with swallowing your comments is that you're describing the most completely idiotic spec possible by trying to single out trapmonkeys that are specced to do just that in spite of any other skill or ability to cause damage.
If that is not your argument and it is meerely a remark that they can be balanced and can do both, that's a comment that would go without saying.
Like kaiser saying 'I play one myself sometimes who specializes in traps, stealth, and finding hidden stuff with just enough combat ability that i can usually squeak by doing things solo or with just a hireleing with me.'
What part about that implies a character that woefully underperforms on DPS? And do note that is his comment on trap rogues from the post that you turned around and railed on trap rogues about.
EDIT: Maybe you just really need to check out Argo server dude.
I'm leveling a FvS (Quaine lvl 15) and group up as a healer all the time in pugs. It's actually in many regards a very well informed server, they rather quickly link you to ifnromation external to the game on DDOwiki, the compendium, and more often than not give you concrete numbers you can actually test.
Could be the case that it's one of the original servers and has maintained a good server pop even through f2p.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Nice assumption you just made about the entire populace of a server and who I have asked.
And as for the rest of the comment. What do they do to be a trap monkey then? Spec all int?
Rogue mechanic is the trap monkey spec. Hence going mechanic is part of being a trap monkey and being geared for traps over dps.
The possibility of what you say and the problem I have with swallowing your comments is that you're describing the most completely idiotic spec possible by trying to single out trapmonkeys that are specced to do just that in spite of any other skill or ability to cause damage.
If that is not your argument and it is meerely a remark that they can be balanced and can do both, that's a comment that would go without saying.
Like kaiser saying 'I play one myself sometimes who specializes in traps, stealth, and finding hidden stuff with just enough combat ability that i can usually squeak by doing things solo or with just a hireleing with me.'
What part about that implies a character that woefully underperforms on DPS? And do note that is his comment on trap rogues from the post that you turned around and railed on trap rogues about.
EDIT: Maybe you just really need to check out Argo server dude.
I'm leveling a FvS (Quaine lvl 15) and group up as a healer all the time in pugs. It's actually in many regards a very well informed server, they rather quickly link you to ifnromation external to the game on DDOwiki, the compendium, and more often than not give you concrete numbers you can actually test.
Could be the case that it's one of the original servers and has maintained a good server pop even through f2p.
This might be more a case of server to sever terminology. On Thelanis when we say trapmonkey we mean useless in combat no DPS. One of the most hated builds in the game and yes there are enough of them that people hate them for it. These are the guys hiding off to the side waiting for a trap and not even using a bow.
When you said rogue mechanic I thought you meant the in game mechanics of rogue skills not the PRE. The mechanic one is one I like. I have always been a repeater fan and a rogue build that can use them to great effect has always been a great idea.
Yeah probably a break in terminology then, trapmonkey is more or less just a rogue mechanic on argo.
Most useless people regardless of class are generally labeled as pikers and that's about it. Can't think of a rogue specific term for it, but we may have one.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Yeah probably a break in terminology then, trapmonkey is more or less just a rogue mechanic on argo.
Most useless people regardless of class are generally labeled as pikers and that's about it. Can't think of a rogue specific term for it, but we may have one.
Piker seems to be game wide. As a matter of fact on guild raids some of us try to win the coveted piker of the night award. I tend to try to do it with a cleric for more joy for all. Especially solo cleric on shrouds. Piking then is always fun.
Comments
No worries I just want to make sure you get the best number you can for accuracy and honesty.
It seems we have a rogue around here who thinks clickies should not be counted on. This is the difference between people who spend every feat and enhancement point on a build and think it is a must and people who know what you can avoid wasting points on to use them elsewhere.
Ok account for a decent spec and say 62, which would be more than what Roku said because the person would be spending 14 points which (while not much) they would have likely pushed into attack training and accuracy according to Roku's DPS focus, not to mention the prereqs for assassin or acrobat. Which means you would in fact be losing DPS.
As well as the fact that they're relying on a clickie and a buff. which I guess is just a personal peeve of mine.
Lets grant that 62. Sure fine you can complete all the quests you'd hope on normal then given their DCs are generally in the 60-70s.
Stop asserting wrongly though that hard and elite, needless to say epic raids, are going to be successful too. I'm granting leniency here, because this is not my spec. I game a gimped estimate because that is the way Roku described the spec.
And Roku I stated my preference and prefaced it by saying I take an extreem. So please don't mindlessly bash.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Again those 14 point MAY NOT gimp DPS in any way. Without a full planner here i can not tell you for sure, but even with prereqs for assassin you have left over points. Some people spend them in toughness or whatever, you can spend them on traps and have ZERO negative effect on DPS and trapping.
The fact you take it to extremes but avoid clickies and buffs is not a preference, its gimping your character in an unneeded way and then claiming you HAVE to take feats and other stuff to meet the DCs. This is false. You can use buffs and clickies to meet the same Dcs and not gimp DPS.
You are over stating trap DCs. Losing DPS is not the same as the original argument in which I was told WRONGLY that you can not do both well. You can have top end DPS along with top end trapping in DDO. Will it be the MAX DPS ROGUE? No but to do that you build no trap skill and in general are a wasted party slot since the gained DPS is minimal for the sacrifice.
Keep in mind the original argument was that pure Trap Rogues are needed and good, when if you ask anyone in DDO who knows high end content they will tell you that such a rogue is not wanted.
I've been looking at DDOwiki and the compendium for the trap DCs.
And as for your gimp comment. No.
I say I design my character to not rely on clickies ad buffs. I spec my character to never fail any check for DD, OL, search, spot, UMD, reflex, hide, move silently, and for fun balance, jump, and tumble. It is a preference.
More so mechanic requires less enhancement points to stat that the assassin spec does, which leaves me room to still spec into the DPS enhancing skills there, where as the assassin spec has less.
Same is the case for feats, putting the skill boosts first and attack second I still have roughly half of my feats dedicated enhancing my combat. One benefitting both (a tr feat).
All in all my rogue actually loses about 3-18 damage, 6 accuracy, and the ability to vorp on a confirmed crit while sneak attacking to instead be able to not care at all about skill check probability, use repeaters for better renged damage (than well any other range than spells) on top of having it as an efficient crowd control tool, and effective use of craftables to give me 50-300 burst damage (which is better and more frequent that what vorp is now at 100), haven't lost anything in the way of defense and health, and on top of that I have a large range of group assistance external to combat.
So yeah, I lost a bit of direct damage and to-hit in favor of larger damage and a plethora of goodies.
That's so terrible.
EDIT: scratch that, I only lost three on my to-hit in total so far
Also I didn't claim you 'have' to take anything. I said that I don't use or rely on them, that doesn't mean I excluded them from the calculations. The numbers I gave for you include clickies and buffs in them. On my own character however I set them up to have higher base stats so they do not need the clickies and buffs(though I do have them in case I ever want overkill or to do a quest that's very far out of my level range just to brag).
EDIT2: I keep asking in game and it seems people like rogue mechanics just fine and are generally in favor of 'trapmonkeys'. Dunno what that means about your comment, maybe differences in server population between argo and whatever one ye play on.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Who said rogue mechanics were bad? I said Turbine made it easy to build a rogue that does both traps and real DPS.
Trap monkeys that can not DPS are found to be useless in high level areas. Asking people in general chat who are 99% new and generally not that good will get you that answer I am sure. If I ask mediocre players if they love and need a cleric they will all say says as well. You are asking the kind of people who turn down FVS for groups because they say they want a real healer. Its not like you are asking an informed group.
Nice assumption you just made about the entire populace of a server and who I have asked.
And as for the rest of the comment. What do they do to be a trap monkey then? Spec all int?
Rogue mechanic is the trap monkey spec. Hence going mechanic is part of being a trap monkey and being geared for traps over dps.
The possibility of what you say and the problem I have with swallowing your comments is that you're describing the most completely idiotic spec possible by trying to single out trapmonkeys that are specced to do just that in spite of any other skill or ability to cause damage.
If that is not your argument and it is meerely a remark that they can be balanced and can do both, that's a comment that would go without saying.
Like kaiser saying 'I play one myself sometimes who specializes in traps, stealth, and finding hidden stuff with just enough combat ability that i can usually squeak by doing things solo or with just a hireleing with me.'
What part about that implies a character that woefully underperforms on DPS? And do note that is his comment on trap rogues from the post that you turned around and railed on trap rogues about.
EDIT: Maybe you just really need to check out Argo server dude.
I'm leveling a FvS (Quaine lvl 15) and group up as a healer all the time in pugs. It's actually in many regards a very well informed server, they rather quickly link you to ifnromation external to the game on DDOwiki, the compendium, and more often than not give you concrete numbers you can actually test.
Could be the case that it's one of the original servers and has maintained a good server pop even through f2p.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
This might be more a case of server to sever terminology. On Thelanis when we say trapmonkey we mean useless in combat no DPS. One of the most hated builds in the game and yes there are enough of them that people hate them for it. These are the guys hiding off to the side waiting for a trap and not even using a bow.
When you said rogue mechanic I thought you meant the in game mechanics of rogue skills not the PRE. The mechanic one is one I like. I have always been a repeater fan and a rogue build that can use them to great effect has always been a great idea.
Yeah probably a break in terminology then, trapmonkey is more or less just a rogue mechanic on argo.
Most useless people regardless of class are generally labeled as pikers and that's about it. Can't think of a rogue specific term for it, but we may have one.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Piker seems to be game wide. As a matter of fact on guild raids some of us try to win the coveted piker of the night award. I tend to try to do it with a cleric for more joy for all. Especially solo cleric on shrouds. Piking then is always fun.