Another vote for "this is an absolutely horrid idea."
I enjoy making gold in game. It's one of the MOST fun things in the game for me, particularly at end game. I hate raiding, so if you take away my having fun playing the market.....I have no reason to stay after level cap in many cases.
Just because YOU don't like other people having more gold than you, is no reason to destroy their fun in game. Selfish much? I share my gold too, with friends and family. I have a BLAST with all of my gold and....I'm not a freakin' gold farmer. So imo you can take your idea and.....well.....just.....I won't say what I REALLY think you should do with that idea.
Ok, what are you doing with the gold?
I already said you can share it.
You can give it away, that's fine.
You just can't horde it.
If someone is level 15 and has max items and gear for that level, you can't give them gold.
They would have nothing to use it for except hording.
If they make level 16 and need new gear, you can give them some gold.
fi they wear out their armor, you can give them some gold.
You just can't horde it.
In which game? WoW or EQ2? I'll just use WoW for familiarity's sake......
Already told you some of what I do with it....I share it with friends and family so they can have things they need and want, including some armor pieces that they can buy throughout the levels, mounts, pets, "booze"....lol....just fun stuff. I buy mounts and pets....yes including rare ones, for myself and my alts. I spread the money out amongst my characters so none of them ever lack for anything they want to buy.
I gather and sell ore and herbs and I buy things low on the broker and raise the price to sell higher, but I don't raise it ridiculously. For me it's just a game inside the game. I do the "work," so I'm entitled to spend and enjoy the "money" any way I like. You just want more control over the game in an attempt (which will fail) to stop gold farmers. They will just come up with some other way to function and in the meantime, you destroy the fun of playing the market and being "rich" (something I am NOT in real life).
I'm sorry to be so blunt, but you seem pretty vicious in your defense of your idea, so I will be vicious in my repulsion to it. I hate your idea.
Gold Cap doesn't work (they implemented it on Aion).
However, I've suggested something two years ago. It help prevent Gold Farmers and Inflation in games.
It always puzzled me to see developers complaing about economy inflation in their MMORPS and then they introduce money sinks. Why the heck did you make rats and snakes drop gold to begin with?
The solution is simple monsters should NEVER drop "Gold" or any kind of in-game currency. Gold/Money should be limited and "printed" in game. A city with a vault of 1,000 gold coins have only that... 1,000 gold coins. Players may acquire this gold by trading or working for the city. There are multiple cities but gold is always limited. Values are set in terms of demand and offer based on this fixed amount of currency. Characters cannot "farm" and hence gold sellers cannot "farm" golds. Gold is distributed for your character doing online or offline work. You can set your character to work while you're offline. This means if you are the most casual player you can still make almost the same money as the gold farmer per account. It's true jobs get better and the way you play the game will get you a better paying jobs or maybe you "craft" or "trade" other exotic items you looted in your adventures. But the key is... gold/currency is limited and acquired by interacting with the city first then with players by either bargaining or gold value.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
im saying typically in games it takes a HUGE amount of resources to get best gears, because that is why you do pve after max. well? how long should it take people to get the max gear? no game is stupid as to allow people to get the best gears anytime soon after maxing. it'll take you months to get there. that means the cap cant be anything lower than what a player would get with months of farming.
also this applies to low lvls as well. typically in games you can get low level elite items at many times the gold that a typical player at the same level would ever see. you can see smurfs going around with gears that are worth more than what some max levels have.
im saying the cap is going to be MANY, MANY times larger than what a newly maxed character, or a typical lowbie will have. gold sellers can exploit this margin and sell gold.
The only problem I have is your solution, much like anti-piracy, affects the innocent player, while probably letting gold farming go on anyway once they figure a loophole or workaround. If the MMO industry itself isn't interested in stopping the farmers or the buyers (which shouldn't be too hard. I mean tracking the movement of that much repetitive activity and transfers of game money should give devs plenty of options for dealing with it if they wanted to) I don't see why regular players should have their gameplay changed.
Actually, no. there is no loophole.
There is always a loophole. There is always a workaround. Nonetheless my point still stands, why institute a program that affects non-gold buyers and non-gold farmers when the industry has shown no real interest in doing much about the problem?
It does not affect non gold buyers.
Yuo may purchase anything your character needs, from other players, or NPCs.
How are you affected?
The only thing it doesn't allow you to do, is horde items or gold.
Why do you need to horde items or gold?
If you need ot make a large purchase like a guild hall, you can select that from a menu, and a portion fo gold will go to that account for that specific purchase.
But you cannot horde the items or gold, and sell them, beyond what your character needs in the game to be up to speed for his or her level.
Can you buy all the best gear a 15 level character needs to have the best chance to complete quests or kill mobs? Absolutely, and you can buy that gear from players or NPCs.
Can you be level 15 and have a million gold in the bank, or 100 gems worth 1,000 gold each, or 5 suits of plate mail for max level characters?
No, the game will not allow it.
You ask how I'm affected then list all things players cannot do. Your system applies to the whole game, which includes non-gold farmers and non-gold buyers. And since the devs/pubs aren't interested in stopping gold farming or gold buying why institute a system that affects those people not involved? You don't need a complicated solution. MMO devs/pubs could easily target farmers, sellers and buyers if they wanted, they choose not to.
It's not complicated. It's very simply.
You can't horde gold, items, or gear.
The end.
You can have as much gold, items, and gear as you need up to the max for your level.
How is that complicated?
If you need to make a very large purchase, like a Guild Hall, you select that from a menu, and gold goes towards that until you make the purchase.
You can't use that gold to sell ot other players.
You are not addressing my points. There is no need to affect the play of everyone when the devs/pubs are unwilling to do anything about those actually involved. Plus like I said, there is ALWAYS a workaround, a loophole, something that will allow the multibillion dollar a year gold farming industry to continue in game in some form or the other. If devs/pubs aren't willing to target buyers/sellers, there is nothing to be done.
You could stop it by having a crappy trade system that makes it hard for gold sellers
It doesn't ruin games though. It just gets players that don't like it upset because people that buy gold get ahead faster by breaking the rules. The only way it could runi an economy is if it were done on a super large scale and someone decided to share their wealth by giving everyone rare items or something and making the value go down or something. Which gold buyers most likely wont do. They'll likely buy stuff from NPCs and other players and move on. The only people that runi economys in MMOs are people who find exploits and then ruin it on purpose. I'll bet 50 dollars that anyone that pays real money for something is intending to spend it so they can ruin the economy.
All gold buying does is makes people upset. Boo hoo so and so is doing better than me in a this game because he cheated and bought gold. Oh no its the end of the world.
If you ruin the value of gold, the players will find another form of currency to barter with. For instance, in D2 gold was so easy to get that it had no value, so people simply traded items for items and for the most part ignored gold. When this occurs, the gold sellers will also change the currency they are selling to items.
And why do you need the gold at all if all you can get is predetermined amounts always going towards a set goal?
Please put away that tired old fallacy, he could want large sums of gold for varying amounts of reasons including only having it for the sake of having a lot of ingame money.
Then name those reasons.
What are they?
Your argument is it stops people from having a lot of in game money that they can't do anything with, because ther'es nothing else for them to buy?
Yes, it does that.
So?
I can name some reasons just fine, you cannot play the market buy low and sell high style because any excess money should go to armor, castles or whatever you deem important, you cannot be a bounty hounter or place bounties again because you won't be able to earn or have excess money.
These are two reasons i personally could be interested in, there are thousands more, each unique to the person stating it.
Your system is penalizing players because someone could in theory run off and sell the gold, but yet you are forgetting that not only gold is attractive to the masses, powerlevelling is too. Let's make progression as cumbersome as possible too i guess?
1) Crafters may or may not reach the maximum level in-game. Just because their characater is not max-level doesn't stop them from crafting high end stuff and selling it to players. When you apply your cap to these crafters, not only are you forcing them to level up, you are taking away their freedom to play the crafting side of the game. (I.E. If a level 20 character exclusively does crafting, that means the level 20 character can craft a level 100 item in a normal game. But if they are capped, you just killed their crafting-path and force them to level, something that they may not wish to do.)
2) Endgame players usually have multiple "Sets" of equipment to deal with various encounters. (PVE/PVP/Raiding, to name a few). If you can only have 1 "Set" of max-level equip, you are thereby limiting what the players can and cannot do. If they can only have 1 "Set" of max-level equipment, they will be forced to buy and sell equipments "sets" each time they want to do something different. (I.E. Switching from raiding to PVP for example.)
3) Miscellaneous Items (a.k.a. crafter's raw materials). How do you put a price on these items? Non-crafting Players do not "need" them. If a player reaches the cap limit of what he can store on his character (from equipments, gold and consumables), he/she will be prevented from gathering these resources and selling/giving it to the crafters in need of them (The Level 20 Crafter above, for example). That means farmers/gatherers would need to make even more trips to gather these resources to fulfill the amount needed by the crafter. If the crafter so happens to reach his/her account limit for "hording" when he only received half of the materials needed to craft the items (Oh, I don't know, maybe because he knew how to make a profit, and is rolling in them, not knowing he can only have X amount of wealth before he reaches a cap?), you have just wasted the players' time. In addition, the gatherer can't take back the materials because he/she has also reached his/her cap, while the crafter cannot take anymore materials due to his own cap limit. You just pissed off two of your players.
Also, the value of some of these high-end raw materials may be equal to (or more then) a maxed-out low-level character's cap limit. You are denying the low-level character a chance to turn a profit to expediate his/her leveling if you prevent the low-level character from obtaining such a rare item (you just made the grind longer). Not an enjoyable experience, is it?
Edit: IF you are saying that your cap-limit can accommodate everything I have just said, I wonder what your cap-limit really is. If its high enough, your suggestion will not stop gold selling at all now, would it?
Another vote for "this is an absolutely horrid idea."
I enjoy making gold in game. It's one of the MOST fun things in the game for me, particularly at end game. I hate raiding, so if you take away my having fun playing the market.....I have no reason to stay after level cap in many cases.
Just because YOU don't like other people having more gold than you, is no reason to destroy their fun in game. Selfish much? I share my gold too, with friends and family. I have a BLAST with all of my gold and....I'm not a freakin' gold farmer. So imo you can take your idea and.....well.....just.....I won't say what I REALLY think you should do with that idea.
Ok, what are you doing with the gold?
I already said you can share it.
You can give it away, that's fine.
You just can't horde it.
If someone is level 15 and has max items and gear for that level, you can't give them gold.
They would have nothing to use it for except hording.
If they make level 16 and need new gear, you can give them some gold.
fi they wear out their armor, you can give them some gold.
You just can't horde it.
All this will do is add to the grind. You'll still be killing and completing quests, but now you won't be receiving anything for it. I honestly can't believe that you really think this is a good idea... Your attitude reminds me of the pro-group factions that want to eliminate all forms of solo play, because if they don't play it your way, then they're doing it wrong! Some people enjoy earning money, it is fun and makes them feel good. Some people like spending large amounts on worthless vanity items. Others like to have a large stash for impulse buys. People want different things, but the one thing I think they'll all agree on is that this idea is rubbish.
Sure you will.
If you need gear, or items, you will get gold to buy it, or it will drop as loot.
The ONLY time you won't get anything, is if you don't need it.
This would mean, you are max level, with max gear, max items, and max everything.
Another vote for "this is an absolutely horrid idea."
I enjoy making gold in game. It's one of the MOST fun things in the game for me, particularly at end game. I hate raiding, so if you take away my having fun playing the market.....I have no reason to stay after level cap in many cases.
Just because YOU don't like other people having more gold than you, is no reason to destroy their fun in game. Selfish much? I share my gold too, with friends and family. I have a BLAST with all of my gold and....I'm not a freakin' gold farmer. So imo you can take your idea and.....well.....just.....I won't say what I REALLY think you should do with that idea.
Ok, what are you doing with the gold?
I already said you can share it.
You can give it away, that's fine.
You just can't horde it.
If someone is level 15 and has max items and gear for that level, you can't give them gold.
They would have nothing to use it for except hording.
If they make level 16 and need new gear, you can give them some gold.
fi they wear out their armor, you can give them some gold.
You just can't horde it.
In which game? WoW or EQ2? I'll just use WoW for familiarity's sake......
Already told you some of what I do with it....I share it with friends and family so they can have things they need and want, including some armor pieces that they can buy throughout the levels, mounts, pets, "booze"....lol....just fun stuff. I buy mounts and pets....yes including rare ones, for myself and my alts. I spread the money out amongst my characters so none of them ever lack for anything they want to buy.
I gather and sell ore and herbs and I buy things low on the broker and raise the price to sell higher, but I don't raise it ridiculously. For me it's just a game inside the game. I do the "work," so I'm entitled to spend and enjoy the "money" any way I like. You just want more control over the game in an attempt (which will fail) to stop gold farmers. They will just come up with some other way to function and in the meantime, you destroy the fun of playing the market and being "rich" (something I am NOT in real life).
I'm sorry to be so blunt, but you seem pretty vicious in your defense of your idea, so I will be vicious in my repulsion to it. I hate your idea.
I don't mind that you hate it, but it would be nice if you understood it.
Another vote for "this is an absolutely horrid idea."
I enjoy making gold in game. It's one of the MOST fun things in the game for me, particularly at end game. I hate raiding, so if you take away my having fun playing the market.....I have no reason to stay after level cap in many cases.
Just because YOU don't like other people having more gold than you, is no reason to destroy their fun in game. Selfish much? I share my gold too, with friends and family. I have a BLAST with all of my gold and....I'm not a freakin' gold farmer. So imo you can take your idea and.....well.....just.....I won't say what I REALLY think you should do with that idea.
Ok, what are you doing with the gold?
I already said you can share it.
You can give it away, that's fine.
You just can't horde it.
If someone is level 15 and has max items and gear for that level, you can't give them gold.
They would have nothing to use it for except hording.
If they make level 16 and need new gear, you can give them some gold.
fi they wear out their armor, you can give them some gold.
You just can't horde it.
All this will do is add to the grind. You'll still be killing and completing quests, but now you won't be receiving anything for it. I honestly can't believe that you really think this is a good idea... Your attitude reminds me of the pro-group factions that want to eliminate all forms of solo play, because if they don't play it your way, then they're doing it wrong! Some people enjoy earning money, it is fun and makes them feel good. Some people like spending large amounts on worthless vanity items. Others like to have a large stash for impulse buys. People want different things, but the one thing I think they'll all agree on is that this idea is rubbish.
Sure you will.
If you need gear, or items, you will get gold to buy it, or it will drop as loot.
The ONLY time you won't get anything, is if you don't need it.
This would mean, you are max level, with max gear, max items, and max everything.
What would you need the gold for?
You have everything in the game now.
it takes months of farming to get max items max gear max everything. when i freshly max i could just buy gold instead of farming for months. that's the point of gold buying
and since this gear setup is under the cap, the amount of gold to buy this, abeit huge, would be under the cap too
Another vote for "this is an absolutely horrid idea."
I enjoy making gold in game. It's one of the MOST fun things in the game for me, particularly at end game. I hate raiding, so if you take away my having fun playing the market.....I have no reason to stay after level cap in many cases.
Just because YOU don't like other people having more gold than you, is no reason to destroy their fun in game. Selfish much? I share my gold too, with friends and family. I have a BLAST with all of my gold and....I'm not a freakin' gold farmer. So imo you can take your idea and.....well.....just.....I won't say what I REALLY think you should do with that idea.
Ok, what are you doing with the gold?
I already said you can share it.
You can give it away, that's fine.
You just can't horde it.
If someone is level 15 and has max items and gear for that level, you can't give them gold.
They would have nothing to use it for except hording.
If they make level 16 and need new gear, you can give them some gold.
fi they wear out their armor, you can give them some gold.
You just can't horde it.
All this will do is add to the grind. You'll still be killing and completing quests, but now you won't be receiving anything for it. I honestly can't believe that you really think this is a good idea... Your attitude reminds me of the pro-group factions that want to eliminate all forms of solo play, because if they don't play it your way, then they're doing it wrong! Some people enjoy earning money, it is fun and makes them feel good. Some people like spending large amounts on worthless vanity items. Others like to have a large stash for impulse buys. People want different things, but the one thing I think they'll all agree on is that this idea is rubbish.
Sure you will.
If you need gear, or items, you will get gold to buy it, or it will drop as loot.
The ONLY time you won't get anything, is if you don't need it.
This would mean, you are max level, with max gear, max items, and max everything.
What would you need the gold for?
You have everything in the game now.
it takes months of farming to get max items max gear max everything. when i freshly max i could just buy gold instead of farming for months. that's the point of gold buying
and since this gear setup is under the cap, the amount of gold to buy this, abeit huge, would be under the cap too
If you're complaining that you can't buy gold from gold farmers with this system, well duh.
That's the entire point, to eliminate gold farmers.
If someone sold you thier stuff, they would be unable to farm any longer. They wouldn't have the gear and armor to stand up to the mobs their level.
And you, now having all the gear, would not be able to make more to give them, because you already have what you need, and you can't horde.
And why do you need the gold at all if all you can get is predetermined amounts always going towards a set goal?
Please put away that tired old fallacy, he could want large sums of gold for varying amounts of reasons including only having it for the sake of having a lot of ingame money.
Then name those reasons.
What are they?
Your argument is it stops people from having a lot of in game money that they can't do anything with, because ther'es nothing else for them to buy?
Yes, it does that.
So?
I can name some reasons just fine, you cannot play the market buy low and sell high style because any excess money should go to armor, castles or whatever you deem important, you cannot be a bounty hounter or place bounties again because you won't be able to earn or have excess money.
These are two reasons i personally could be interested in, there are thousands more, each unique to the person stating it.
Your system is penalizing players because someone could in theory run off and sell the gold, but yet you are forgetting that not only gold is attractive to the masses, powerlevelling is too. Let's make progression as cumbersome as possible too i guess?
You are correct. Powerleveling would be capped to a certain degree. You would not be able to give a newbie maxed out gear for max level.
Actually, You can do all those things. There is nothing stopping you.
But you can't horde items, gold, or gear, to do them all at once.
If you want to pay a bounty hunter, there is a margin that will let you do that.
if you want to save up to hire 100 bounty hunters, no you can't do that.
You will have ot hire a bounty hunter, then do it again, since you can't horde.
And you can't hire a bounty hunter that is maxed out in gear, gold, and items. The game would not let you pay the bounty hunter.
The bounty hunter would have to get rid of some stuff first, since he can't horde either.
1) Crafters may or may not reach the maximum level in-game. Just because their characater is not max-level doesn't stop them from crafting high end stuff and selling it to players. When you apply your cap to these crafters, not only are you forcing them to level up, you are taking away their freedom to play the crafting side of the game. (I.E. If a level 20 character exclusively does crafting, that means the level 20 character can craft a level 100 item in a normal game. But if they are capped, you just killed their crafting-path and force them to level, something that they may not wish to do.)
2) Endgame players usually have multiple "Sets" of equipment to deal with various encounters. (PVE/PVP/Raiding, to name a few). If you can only have 1 "Set" of max-level equip, you are thereby limiting what the players can and cannot do. If they can only have 1 "Set" of max-level equipment, they will be forced to buy and sell equipments "sets" each time they want to do something different. (I.E. Switching from raiding to PVP for example.)
3) Miscellaneous Items (a.k.a. crafter's raw materials). How do you put a price on these items? Non-crafting Players do not "need" them. If a player reaches the cap limit of what he can store on his character (from equipments, gold and consumables), he/she will be prevented from gathering these resources and selling/giving it to the crafters in need of them (The Level 20 Crafter above, for example). That means farmers/gatherers would need to make even more trips to gather these resources to fulfill the amount needed by the crafter. If the crafter so happens to reach his/her account limit for "hording" when he only received half of the materials needed to craft the items (Oh, I don't know, maybe because he knew how to make a profit, and is rolling in them, not knowing he can only have X amount of wealth before he reaches a cap?), you have just wasted the players' time. In addition, the gatherer can't take back the materials because he/she has also reached his/her cap, while the crafter cannot take anymore materials due to his own cap limit. You just pissed off two of your players.
Also, the value of some of these high-end raw materials may be equal to (or more then) a maxed-out low-level character's cap limit. You are denying the low-level character a chance to turn a profit to expediate his/her leveling if you prevent the low-level character from obtaining such a rare item (you just made the grind longer). Not an enjoyable experience, is it?
Edit: IF you are saying that your cap-limit can accommodate everything I have just said, I wonder what your cap-limit really is. If its high enough, your suggestion will not stop gold selling at all now, would it?
The cap limit is based on the character, not a specific amount of money.
And, it's not based on what you have at any one time, but the entire lifetime of your character.
The game will keep track of the sum total of your items, gear, expendables, and gold pieces for the lifetime of your character.
You may have what any normal player needs to play the game, and would go through as a crafter, or whatever.
When you exceed that total, and enter the realm of having enough gold to sell, you're capped.
You can't make any more gold, gain any more items, get any more gear, until your chracter actually needs it.
I believe you could easily profile gold farmers, and non gold farmers, and set the calculations.
Non gold farmers, and non hoarders, would hardly even be aware of the cap.
Gold farmers would hit it hard, and fast, and they wouldn't be able to farm gold.
These stats are easily collected. They do it all the time to tweak the game for loot drops, mob kills, levels per hour, etc., et c.
If you're doing quests, and buying gear, nad expendables, and giving a few gold to friends, nothing would happen.
Once you start to accumulate gold, enough to sell in items, gear, or anything else, the cap would stop you automatically.
The game would calculate what sort of items, gold, gear, and average player goes through, and then ad a margin of error, for the below average, and above average player, for any specific level, class, or profession, crafter, etc.
The gold farmer would fall outside of these averages, and hit the cap.
Any objections? Is this going to hurt your gameplay somehow?
It is going to hurt my gameplay. I grinding for gold, so I do it rarely, but when I do, I try to make enough to last me a few weeks. With a system like this that wouldn't work out, because suddenly I'm at the gold cap and my farming weekend is ruined. So instead of farming a couple of times a month, I will probably have to farm several times a week.
1) Crafters may or may not reach the maximum level in-game. Just because their characater is not max-level doesn't stop them from crafting high end stuff and selling it to players. When you apply your cap to these crafters, not only are you forcing them to level up, you are taking away their freedom to play the crafting side of the game. (I.E. If a level 20 character exclusively does crafting, that means the level 20 character can craft a level 100 item in a normal game. But if they are capped, you just killed their crafting-path and force them to level, something that they may not wish to do.)
2) Endgame players usually have multiple "Sets" of equipment to deal with various encounters. (PVE/PVP/Raiding, to name a few). If you can only have 1 "Set" of max-level equip, you are thereby limiting what the players can and cannot do. If they can only have 1 "Set" of max-level equipment, they will be forced to buy and sell equipments "sets" each time they want to do something different. (I.E. Switching from raiding to PVP for example.)
3) Miscellaneous Items (a.k.a. crafter's raw materials). How do you put a price on these items? Non-crafting Players do not "need" them. If a player reaches the cap limit of what he can store on his character (from equipments, gold and consumables), he/she will be prevented from gathering these resources and selling/giving it to the crafters in need of them (The Level 20 Crafter above, for example). That means farmers/gatherers would need to make even more trips to gather these resources to fulfill the amount needed by the crafter. If the crafter so happens to reach his/her account limit for "hording" when he only received half of the materials needed to craft the items (Oh, I don't know, maybe because he knew how to make a profit, and is rolling in them, not knowing he can only have X amount of wealth before he reaches a cap?), you have just wasted the players' time. In addition, the gatherer can't take back the materials because he/she has also reached his/her cap, while the crafter cannot take anymore materials due to his own cap limit. You just pissed off two of your players.
Also, the value of some of these high-end raw materials may be equal to (or more then) a maxed-out low-level character's cap limit. You are denying the low-level character a chance to turn a profit to expediate his/her leveling if you prevent the low-level character from obtaining such a rare item (you just made the grind longer). Not an enjoyable experience, is it?
Edit: IF you are saying that your cap-limit can accommodate everything I have just said, I wonder what your cap-limit really is. If its high enough, your suggestion will not stop gold selling at all now, would it?
The cap limit is based on the character, not a specific amount of money.
And, it's not based on what you have at any one time, but the entire lifetime of your character.
The game will keep track of the sum total of your items, gear, expendables, and gold pieces for the lifetime of your character.
You may have what any normal player needs to play the game, and would go through as a crafter, or whatever.
When you exceed that total, and enter the realm of having enough gold to sell, you're capped.
You can't make any more gold, gain any more items, get any more gear, until your chracter actually needs it.
I believe you could easily profile gold farmers, and non gold farmers, and set the calculations.
Non gold farmers, and non hoarders, would hardly even be aware of the cap.
Gold farmers would hit it hard, and fast, and they wouldn't be able to farm gold.
These stats are easily collected. They do it all the time to tweak the game for loot drops, mob kills, levels per hour, etc., et c.
If you're doing quests, and buying gear, nad expendables, and giving a few gold to friends, nothing would happen.
Once you start to accumulate gold, enough to sell in items, gear, or anything else, the cap would stop you automatically.
The game would calculate what sort of items, gold, gear, and average player goes through, and then ad a margin of error, for the below average, and above average player, for any specific level, class, or profession, crafter, etc.
The gold farmer would fall outside of these averages, and hit the cap.
sorry but you're quite mistaken. i dont know if you've gotten to the end game or not, but botting is SLOWER than a player trying to get gold. what gold farmers do is get tons of botting accounts. each bot would hvae less than what an average highly geared player would have
1) Crafters may or may not reach the maximum level in-game. Just because their characater is not max-level doesn't stop them from crafting high end stuff and selling it to players. When you apply your cap to these crafters, not only are you forcing them to level up, you are taking away their freedom to play the crafting side of the game. (I.E. If a level 20 character exclusively does crafting, that means the level 20 character can craft a level 100 item in a normal game. But if they are capped, you just killed their crafting-path and force them to level, something that they may not wish to do.)
2) Endgame players usually have multiple "Sets" of equipment to deal with various encounters. (PVE/PVP/Raiding, to name a few). If you can only have 1 "Set" of max-level equip, you are thereby limiting what the players can and cannot do. If they can only have 1 "Set" of max-level equipment, they will be forced to buy and sell equipments "sets" each time they want to do something different. (I.E. Switching from raiding to PVP for example.)
3) Miscellaneous Items (a.k.a. crafter's raw materials). How do you put a price on these items? Non-crafting Players do not "need" them. If a player reaches the cap limit of what he can store on his character (from equipments, gold and consumables), he/she will be prevented from gathering these resources and selling/giving it to the crafters in need of them (The Level 20 Crafter above, for example). That means farmers/gatherers would need to make even more trips to gather these resources to fulfill the amount needed by the crafter. If the crafter so happens to reach his/her account limit for "hording" when he only received half of the materials needed to craft the items (Oh, I don't know, maybe because he knew how to make a profit, and is rolling in them, not knowing he can only have X amount of wealth before he reaches a cap?), you have just wasted the players' time. In addition, the gatherer can't take back the materials because he/she has also reached his/her cap, while the crafter cannot take anymore materials due to his own cap limit. You just pissed off two of your players.
Also, the value of some of these high-end raw materials may be equal to (or more then) a maxed-out low-level character's cap limit. You are denying the low-level character a chance to turn a profit to expediate his/her leveling if you prevent the low-level character from obtaining such a rare item (you just made the grind longer). Not an enjoyable experience, is it?
Edit: IF you are saying that your cap-limit can accommodate everything I have just said, I wonder what your cap-limit really is. If its high enough, your suggestion will not stop gold selling at all now, would it?
The cap limit is based on the character, not a specific amount of money.
And, it's not based on what you have at any one time, but the entire lifetime of your character.
The game will keep track of the sum total of your items, gear, expendables, and gold pieces for the lifetime of your character.
You may have what any normal player needs to play the game, and would go through as a crafter, or whatever.
When you exceed that total, and enter the realm of having enough gold to sell, you're capped.
You can't make any more gold, gain any more items, get any more gear, until your chracter actually needs it.
I believe you could easily profile gold farmers, and non gold farmers, and set the calculations.
Non gold farmers, and non hoarders, would hardly even be aware of the cap.
Gold farmers would hit it hard, and fast, and they wouldn't be able to farm gold.
These stats are easily collected. They do it all the time to tweak the game for loot drops, mob kills, levels per hour, etc., et c.
If you're doing quests, and buying gear, nad expendables, and giving a few gold to friends, nothing would happen.
Once you start to accumulate gold, enough to sell in items, gear, or anything else, the cap would stop you automatically.
The game would calculate what sort of items, gold, gear, and average player goes through, and then ad a margin of error, for the below average, and above average player, for any specific level, class, or profession, crafter, etc.
The gold farmer would fall outside of these averages, and hit the cap.
Interesting theory.. but the odds are that the "hoarding" line cut off will be either too high or too low..
if its too high.. it will only disinterest a few players and those few who are serious farmers will just make a second account.
if too low it will be ineffective in stopping the desired hoarding..
Also... the "value" of an item is deteremined by the demand for the item.. economics 101
It would take a SERIOUS effort by a dev team to keep accurate value representations in the game.
I still don't understand the idea. From what I DO understand it sounds like socialism for games. I am MORE than opposed.
I spend every day of my life having all of my NEEDS met (gratefully....I'm truly thankful for that), but it's really FUN when you can have some WANTS. You're talking about making a game that allows you to only have your needs met. Well a lot of people live like that from day to day and me, for one, I am someone who enjoys the escape of gaming. One of the things I get to be in a game that I am NOT in real life....is RICH. I get to have WANTS fulfilled besides just my in game "needs."
So again....screw this idea for controlling the economy.
Just remove gold drop cause its useless anyway, 10 copper per mob while a mount cost 1500 gold? Nice. But dont touch the crafting/green drops you can sell at AH cause that would ruin everything.
In most games, elites drops as good items (in AH value) as in low level crafts. Whats the point wasting time on elites when you can one shot lvl 15 mobs and take their loots to put it in AH while making low levels happier?
Its thanks to low level instance farming i got one of my mounts in WoW(which costed like 12500 gold) which took me 3 weeks to get. If i kept farming high level areas it would sure take me like 2 months. If youre wondering, it was in the weeks old WOTLK WoW and i farmed Stratholme. Cash rain!
If theres games where low lvl mobs drops so much cash that high levels farm it which i doubt, sure, do it, if the gold drop is the same as high level anyway.
Helping players/guildies = not even a option cause they will only give you one single copper coin. I really like the idea where i can click buy mount and my gold pays off there, that would make farming "easier" cause its more fun to farm 1-1000 gold than 24000-25000, seriously. (Thats how our brain work!)
I understand you feel gold farming is bad , but your way suxs. like in eq2 i was lvl 34 but found a really rare and cool level 87 1h spear w/ cool effects for 175 plat, i bought it and put it in my bank for later i have not seen it for that price yet 600 plat is the going rate now.. your way would not allow me to buy it or keep it.. those kind of limits would not be fun .. good thought , bad way try again..
1) Crafters may or may not reach the maximum level in-game. Just because their characater is not max-level doesn't stop them from crafting high end stuff and selling it to players. When you apply your cap to these crafters, not only are you forcing them to level up, you are taking away their freedom to play the crafting side of the game. (I.E. If a level 20 character exclusively does crafting, that means the level 20 character can craft a level 100 item in a normal game. But if they are capped, you just killed their crafting-path and force them to level, something that they may not wish to do.)
2) Endgame players usually have multiple "Sets" of equipment to deal with various encounters. (PVE/PVP/Raiding, to name a few). If you can only have 1 "Set" of max-level equip, you are thereby limiting what the players can and cannot do. If they can only have 1 "Set" of max-level equipment, they will be forced to buy and sell equipments "sets" each time they want to do something different. (I.E. Switching from raiding to PVP for example.)
3) Miscellaneous Items (a.k.a. crafter's raw materials). How do you put a price on these items? Non-crafting Players do not "need" them. If a player reaches the cap limit of what he can store on his character (from equipments, gold and consumables), he/she will be prevented from gathering these resources and selling/giving it to the crafters in need of them (The Level 20 Crafter above, for example). That means farmers/gatherers would need to make even more trips to gather these resources to fulfill the amount needed by the crafter. If the crafter so happens to reach his/her account limit for "hording" when he only received half of the materials needed to craft the items (Oh, I don't know, maybe because he knew how to make a profit, and is rolling in them, not knowing he can only have X amount of wealth before he reaches a cap?), you have just wasted the players' time. In addition, the gatherer can't take back the materials because he/she has also reached his/her cap, while the crafter cannot take anymore materials due to his own cap limit. You just pissed off two of your players.
Also, the value of some of these high-end raw materials may be equal to (or more then) a maxed-out low-level character's cap limit. You are denying the low-level character a chance to turn a profit to expediate his/her leveling if you prevent the low-level character from obtaining such a rare item (you just made the grind longer). Not an enjoyable experience, is it?
Edit: IF you are saying that your cap-limit can accommodate everything I have just said, I wonder what your cap-limit really is. If its high enough, your suggestion will not stop gold selling at all now, would it?
The cap limit is based on the character, not a specific amount of money.
And, it's not based on what you have at any one time, but the entire lifetime of your character.
The game will keep track of the sum total of your items, gear, expendables, and gold pieces for the lifetime of your character.
You may have what any normal player needs to play the game, and would go through as a crafter, or whatever.
When you exceed that total, and enter the realm of having enough gold to sell, you're capped.
You can't make any more gold, gain any more items, get any more gear, until your chracter actually needs it.
I believe you could easily profile gold farmers, and non gold farmers, and set the calculations.
Non gold farmers, and non hoarders, would hardly even be aware of the cap.
Gold farmers would hit it hard, and fast, and they wouldn't be able to farm gold.
These stats are easily collected. They do it all the time to tweak the game for loot drops, mob kills, levels per hour, etc., et c.
If you're doing quests, and buying gear, nad expendables, and giving a few gold to friends, nothing would happen.
Once you start to accumulate gold, enough to sell in items, gear, or anything else, the cap would stop you automatically.
The game would calculate what sort of items, gold, gear, and average player goes through, and then ad a margin of error, for the below average, and above average player, for any specific level, class, or profession, crafter, etc.
The gold farmer would fall outside of these averages, and hit the cap.
1) Putting aside the implausible feat of going through all those data and "profiling" gold sellers from normal players, you still did not solve the problem of low-level high-end crafters. Crafters can burn through (and accummulate) wealth that is equal to or greater than a hmax-level character's cap limit. You are still preventing said crafter from playing the way he/she wants to play. Also, you cannot arbitrarily determine what a "normal crafter" goes through and how much gold and mats they burn to level up their crafting skill. The price of raw materials (and any items that is of value, really) are determined by the player-market, not by the developers.
2) If you are going to set a very high ceiling for a crafter's cap limit, you have just disassembled your entire suggestion. Both gold sellers and gold buyers will be making crafter-class characters to store their gold. And there is no way to discern a bona fide crafter from the gold sellers/buyers crafter.
3) Google WoW Gold Seller and check their minimum purchase units. Its way below what a mid-level to high-level players would have. And then you have players who likes min-maxing investing 200k (if the post is to be believed) into their character. Add to that the drops that he(she?) can/will get from raids, amount of consumable needed to run each raid, as well as gold to pay repair costs if/when they wipe (around 250k according to that post, because the guild sponsored his/her repair cost). How do you determine the cap limit for such players? If, as you say, its based on level and character lifetime wealth, this person may well be falling outside of the "average" player's limit. In fact, how do you determine "average" at all?
Edit: Switched a few words/phrases for clarificaiton.
Comments
In which game? WoW or EQ2? I'll just use WoW for familiarity's sake......
Already told you some of what I do with it....I share it with friends and family so they can have things they need and want, including some armor pieces that they can buy throughout the levels, mounts, pets, "booze"....lol....just fun stuff. I buy mounts and pets....yes including rare ones, for myself and my alts. I spread the money out amongst my characters so none of them ever lack for anything they want to buy.
I gather and sell ore and herbs and I buy things low on the broker and raise the price to sell higher, but I don't raise it ridiculously. For me it's just a game inside the game. I do the "work," so I'm entitled to spend and enjoy the "money" any way I like. You just want more control over the game in an attempt (which will fail) to stop gold farmers. They will just come up with some other way to function and in the meantime, you destroy the fun of playing the market and being "rich" (something I am NOT in real life).
I'm sorry to be so blunt, but you seem pretty vicious in your defense of your idea, so I will be vicious in my repulsion to it. I hate your idea.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Gold Cap doesn't work (they implemented it on Aion).
However, I've suggested something two years ago. It help prevent Gold Farmers and Inflation in games.
It always puzzled me to see developers complaing about economy inflation in their MMORPS and then they introduce money sinks. Why the heck did you make rats and snakes drop gold to begin with?
The solution is simple monsters should NEVER drop "Gold" or any kind of in-game currency. Gold/Money should be limited and "printed" in game. A city with a vault of 1,000 gold coins have only that... 1,000 gold coins. Players may acquire this gold by trading or working for the city. There are multiple cities but gold is always limited. Values are set in terms of demand and offer based on this fixed amount of currency. Characters cannot "farm" and hence gold sellers cannot "farm" golds. Gold is distributed for your character doing online or offline work. You can set your character to work while you're offline. This means if you are the most casual player you can still make almost the same money as the gold farmer per account. It's true jobs get better and the way you play the game will get you a better paying jobs or maybe you "craft" or "trade" other exotic items you looted in your adventures. But the key is... gold/currency is limited and acquired by interacting with the city first then with players by either bargaining or gold value.
http://www.mine-control.com/zack/uoecon/uoecon.html
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
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im saying typically in games it takes a HUGE amount of resources to get best gears, because that is why you do pve after max. well? how long should it take people to get the max gear? no game is stupid as to allow people to get the best gears anytime soon after maxing. it'll take you months to get there. that means the cap cant be anything lower than what a player would get with months of farming.
also this applies to low lvls as well. typically in games you can get low level elite items at many times the gold that a typical player at the same level would ever see. you can see smurfs going around with gears that are worth more than what some max levels have.
im saying the cap is going to be MANY, MANY times larger than what a newly maxed character, or a typical lowbie will have. gold sellers can exploit this margin and sell gold.
You are not addressing my points. There is no need to affect the play of everyone when the devs/pubs are unwilling to do anything about those actually involved. Plus like I said, there is ALWAYS a workaround, a loophole, something that will allow the multibillion dollar a year gold farming industry to continue in game in some form or the other. If devs/pubs aren't willing to target buyers/sellers, there is nothing to be done.
You could stop it by having a crappy trade system that makes it hard for gold sellers
It doesn't ruin games though. It just gets players that don't like it upset because people that buy gold get ahead faster by breaking the rules. The only way it could runi an economy is if it were done on a super large scale and someone decided to share their wealth by giving everyone rare items or something and making the value go down or something. Which gold buyers most likely wont do. They'll likely buy stuff from NPCs and other players and move on. The only people that runi economys in MMOs are people who find exploits and then ruin it on purpose. I'll bet 50 dollars that anyone that pays real money for something is intending to spend it so they can ruin the economy.
All gold buying does is makes people upset. Boo hoo so and so is doing better than me in a this game because he cheated and bought gold. Oh no its the end of the world.
If you ruin the value of gold, the players will find another form of currency to barter with. For instance, in D2 gold was so easy to get that it had no value, so people simply traded items for items and for the most part ignored gold. When this occurs, the gold sellers will also change the currency they are selling to items.
I can name some reasons just fine, you cannot play the market buy low and sell high style because any excess money should go to armor, castles or whatever you deem important, you cannot be a bounty hounter or place bounties again because you won't be able to earn or have excess money.
These are two reasons i personally could be interested in, there are thousands more, each unique to the person stating it.
Your system is penalizing players because someone could in theory run off and sell the gold, but yet you are forgetting that not only gold is attractive to the masses, powerlevelling is too. Let's make progression as cumbersome as possible too i guess?
It doesn't work because:
1) Crafters may or may not reach the maximum level in-game. Just because their characater is not max-level doesn't stop them from crafting high end stuff and selling it to players. When you apply your cap to these crafters, not only are you forcing them to level up, you are taking away their freedom to play the crafting side of the game. (I.E. If a level 20 character exclusively does crafting, that means the level 20 character can craft a level 100 item in a normal game. But if they are capped, you just killed their crafting-path and force them to level, something that they may not wish to do.)
2) Endgame players usually have multiple "Sets" of equipment to deal with various encounters. (PVE/PVP/Raiding, to name a few). If you can only have 1 "Set" of max-level equip, you are thereby limiting what the players can and cannot do. If they can only have 1 "Set" of max-level equipment, they will be forced to buy and sell equipments "sets" each time they want to do something different. (I.E. Switching from raiding to PVP for example.)
3) Miscellaneous Items (a.k.a. crafter's raw materials). How do you put a price on these items? Non-crafting Players do not "need" them. If a player reaches the cap limit of what he can store on his character (from equipments, gold and consumables), he/she will be prevented from gathering these resources and selling/giving it to the crafters in need of them (The Level 20 Crafter above, for example). That means farmers/gatherers would need to make even more trips to gather these resources to fulfill the amount needed by the crafter. If the crafter so happens to reach his/her account limit for "hording" when he only received half of the materials needed to craft the items (Oh, I don't know, maybe because he knew how to make a profit, and is rolling in them, not knowing he can only have X amount of wealth before he reaches a cap?), you have just wasted the players' time. In addition, the gatherer can't take back the materials because he/she has also reached his/her cap, while the crafter cannot take anymore materials due to his own cap limit. You just pissed off two of your players.
Also, the value of some of these high-end raw materials may be equal to (or more then) a maxed-out low-level character's cap limit. You are denying the low-level character a chance to turn a profit to expediate his/her leveling if you prevent the low-level character from obtaining such a rare item (you just made the grind longer). Not an enjoyable experience, is it?
Edit: IF you are saying that your cap-limit can accommodate everything I have just said, I wonder what your cap-limit really is. If its high enough, your suggestion will not stop gold selling at all now, would it?
Sure you will.
If you need gear, or items, you will get gold to buy it, or it will drop as loot.
The ONLY time you won't get anything, is if you don't need it.
This would mean, you are max level, with max gear, max items, and max everything.
What would you need the gold for?
You have everything in the game now.
I don't mind that you hate it, but it would be nice if you understood it.
Nothing you said would be prevented.
it takes months of farming to get max items max gear max everything. when i freshly max i could just buy gold instead of farming for months. that's the point of gold buying
and since this gear setup is under the cap, the amount of gold to buy this, abeit huge, would be under the cap too
If you're complaining that you can't buy gold from gold farmers with this system, well duh.
That's the entire point, to eliminate gold farmers.
If someone sold you thier stuff, they would be unable to farm any longer. They wouldn't have the gear and armor to stand up to the mobs their level.
And you, now having all the gear, would not be able to make more to give them, because you already have what you need, and you can't horde.
You are correct. Powerleveling would be capped to a certain degree. You would not be able to give a newbie maxed out gear for max level.
Actually, You can do all those things. There is nothing stopping you.
But you can't horde items, gold, or gear, to do them all at once.
If you want to pay a bounty hunter, there is a margin that will let you do that.
if you want to save up to hire 100 bounty hunters, no you can't do that.
You will have ot hire a bounty hunter, then do it again, since you can't horde.
And you can't hire a bounty hunter that is maxed out in gear, gold, and items. The game would not let you pay the bounty hunter.
The bounty hunter would have to get rid of some stuff first, since he can't horde either.
The cap limit is based on the character, not a specific amount of money.
And, it's not based on what you have at any one time, but the entire lifetime of your character.
The game will keep track of the sum total of your items, gear, expendables, and gold pieces for the lifetime of your character.
You may have what any normal player needs to play the game, and would go through as a crafter, or whatever.
When you exceed that total, and enter the realm of having enough gold to sell, you're capped.
You can't make any more gold, gain any more items, get any more gear, until your chracter actually needs it.
I believe you could easily profile gold farmers, and non gold farmers, and set the calculations.
Non gold farmers, and non hoarders, would hardly even be aware of the cap.
Gold farmers would hit it hard, and fast, and they wouldn't be able to farm gold.
These stats are easily collected. They do it all the time to tweak the game for loot drops, mob kills, levels per hour, etc., et c.
If you're doing quests, and buying gear, nad expendables, and giving a few gold to friends, nothing would happen.
Once you start to accumulate gold, enough to sell in items, gear, or anything else, the cap would stop you automatically.
The game would calculate what sort of items, gold, gear, and average player goes through, and then ad a margin of error, for the below average, and above average player, for any specific level, class, or profession, crafter, etc.
The gold farmer would fall outside of these averages, and hit the cap.
I'd rather have a game where you just trade items for items not cash
(\ /) ?
( . .)
c('')('')
It is going to hurt my gameplay. I grinding for gold, so I do it rarely, but when I do, I try to make enough to last me a few weeks. With a system like this that wouldn't work out, because suddenly I'm at the gold cap and my farming weekend is ruined. So instead of farming a couple of times a month, I will probably have to farm several times a week.
sorry but you're quite mistaken. i dont know if you've gotten to the end game or not, but botting is SLOWER than a player trying to get gold. what gold farmers do is get tons of botting accounts. each bot would hvae less than what an average highly geared player would have
Interesting theory.. but the odds are that the "hoarding" line cut off will be either too high or too low..
if its too high.. it will only disinterest a few players and those few who are serious farmers will just make a second account.
if too low it will be ineffective in stopping the desired hoarding..
Also... the "value" of an item is deteremined by the demand for the item.. economics 101
It would take a SERIOUS effort by a dev team to keep accurate value representations in the game.
It's just not a practical solution imo.
edit: for spelling
I still don't understand the idea. From what I DO understand it sounds like socialism for games. I am MORE than opposed.
I spend every day of my life having all of my NEEDS met (gratefully....I'm truly thankful for that), but it's really FUN when you can have some WANTS. You're talking about making a game that allows you to only have your needs met. Well a lot of people live like that from day to day and me, for one, I am someone who enjoys the escape of gaming. One of the things I get to be in a game that I am NOT in real life....is RICH. I get to have WANTS fulfilled besides just my in game "needs."
So again....screw this idea for controlling the economy.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Just remove gold drop cause its useless anyway, 10 copper per mob while a mount cost 1500 gold? Nice. But dont touch the crafting/green drops you can sell at AH cause that would ruin everything.
In most games, elites drops as good items (in AH value) as in low level crafts. Whats the point wasting time on elites when you can one shot lvl 15 mobs and take their loots to put it in AH while making low levels happier?
Its thanks to low level instance farming i got one of my mounts in WoW(which costed like 12500 gold) which took me 3 weeks to get. If i kept farming high level areas it would sure take me like 2 months. If youre wondering, it was in the weeks old WOTLK WoW and i farmed Stratholme. Cash rain!
If theres games where low lvl mobs drops so much cash that high levels farm it which i doubt, sure, do it, if the gold drop is the same as high level anyway.
Helping players/guildies = not even a option cause they will only give you one single copper coin. I really like the idea where i can click buy mount and my gold pays off there, that would make farming "easier" cause its more fun to farm 1-1000 gold than 24000-25000, seriously. (Thats how our brain work!)
Yawn
I understand you feel gold farming is bad , but your way suxs. like in eq2 i was lvl 34 but found a really rare and cool level 87 1h spear w/ cool effects for 175 plat, i bought it and put it in my bank for later i have not seen it for that price yet 600 plat is the going rate now.. your way would not allow me to buy it or keep it.. those kind of limits would not be fun .. good thought , bad way try again..
1) Putting aside the implausible feat of going through all those data and "profiling" gold sellers from normal players, you still did not solve the problem of low-level high-end crafters. Crafters can burn through (and accummulate) wealth that is equal to or greater than a hmax-level character's cap limit. You are still preventing said crafter from playing the way he/she wants to play. Also, you cannot arbitrarily determine what a "normal crafter" goes through and how much gold and mats they burn to level up their crafting skill. The price of raw materials (and any items that is of value, really) are determined by the player-market, not by the developers.
2) If you are going to set a very high ceiling for a crafter's cap limit, you have just disassembled your entire suggestion. Both gold sellers and gold buyers will be making crafter-class characters to store their gold. And there is no way to discern a bona fide crafter from the gold sellers/buyers crafter.
3) Google WoW Gold Seller and check their minimum purchase units. Its way below what a mid-level to high-level players would have. And then you have players who likes min-maxing investing 200k (if the post is to be believed) into their character. Add to that the drops that he(she?) can/will get from raids, amount of consumable needed to run each raid, as well as gold to pay repair costs if/when they wipe (around 250k according to that post, because the guild sponsored his/her repair cost). How do you determine the cap limit for such players? If, as you say, its based on level and character lifetime wealth, this person may well be falling outside of the "average" player's limit. In fact, how do you determine "average" at all?
Edit: Switched a few words/phrases for clarificaiton.