Originally posted by dlevel please let me ask something, i havent read all 10 pages cause i dont have the time but i have a question..
Do i remember correctly that in D2 you could hack items? with some trainers? if in D3 the items are not server side i think those trainers will be available again so the cheaters can create items and sell them... anyway do i miss something? i m sure for those trainers i just dont remember if you could have those items in battle.net... someone enlight me.
In d2 you could cheat items in offline, and open battle net games. In closed battle net you was not able to make fake items, except bugging some of them. You could however clone items (duping)
But those kind of hacks wont work with D3. Items are all server side, and they learned a lot with D2 - so in WOW there was no way for duping/hacking items - so they have know how and will use it in D3.
They might as well sell the items on battlenet and make the game P2W.
This already does make the game P2W, so all you guys who claim to hate P2W MMORPGs and now saying 'its ok' because it's D3 are hypocrites imo.
If anything this is a good experiment - lets see what happens before we pass judgment.
As for the 'it's gonna happen anyhow'... well, thats BS as well, to be frank.
They could have designed the game so it didnt happen. Instead they have decided to cash in on it.
There used to be a time where Devs used to worry about the integrity of their game and have more then just dollar signs in mind when they designed their core systems.
Honestly, it's now officially reached the point where it's pathetic how easily 'gamers' have accepted the Pay to Achieve revenue models.
Times change.
I would blame Blizzard, but if no 'gamer' purchased in game rewards then there would be market for Blizz to exploit.
yes, times change, but not always for the better. In fact, they can change for the absolute worst.
As this constant move from play to achieve towards pay to achieve in games demonstrates.
They might as well sell the items on battlenet and make the game P2W.
This already does make the game P2W, so all you guys who claim to hate P2W MMORPGs and now saying 'its ok' because it's D3 are hypocrites imo.
If anything this is a good experiment - lets see what happens before we pass judgment.
As for the 'it's gonna happen anyhow'... well, thats BS as well, to be frank.
They could have designed the game so it didnt happen. Instead they have decided to cash in on it.
There used to be a time where Devs used to worry about the integrity of their game and have more then just dollar signs in mind when they designed their core systems.
Honestly, it's now officially reached the point where it's pathetic how easily 'gamers' have accepted the Pay to Achieve revenue models.
Times change.
I would blame Blizzard, but if no 'gamer' purchased in game rewards then there would be market for Blizz to exploit.
yes, times change, but not always for the better. In fact, they can change for the absolute worst.
As this constant move from play to achieve towards pay to achieve in games demonstrates.
Its different. You aren't paying some corrupt politician for an unfair advantage in a free market. You are paying other players who also play for their time and effort.
Power to the people is the fundamental difference between this model, and having a cash shop.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." - John Galt
Honestly, i dont understand why people are saying "WOW NOW IM NOT PLAYING DIABLO 2 ANYMORE" or "WOW BLIZZARD RUINED THE GAME WITH RMT"....
i guess they dont realize that the RMT Market exists with or without blizzard. Blizzard is just trying to make it so the secondary foriegn websites dont illegally do it. I honestly dont understand how this could ruin how you play. I actually LOVE the idea and will be playing a lot more now to make some money off the game. Thats just my opinion.
This game is going to be great. I don't care whether or not they have a RMT marketplace. I will play D3 for the fun gameplay. Although this announcement does make me happy, because it looks like its already scaring off a large portion of the extreme QQers.
My big concern is that, again, blizzard have made hacking accounts more atractave to criminals, as they are baking in a need to tie in bank details.
Honestly I'm firmly against any moves to make it more MMO like so this is going too far, will hold judgent as I'll only be after it for singleplayer, and that may still be good if I leave the unwantedfeatures on the side of my plate.
They might as well sell the items on battlenet and make the game P2W.
This already does make the game P2W, so all you guys who claim to hate P2W MMORPGs and now saying 'its ok' because it's D3 are hypocrites imo.
If anything this is a good experiment - lets see what happens before we pass judgment.
As for the 'it's gonna happen anyhow'... well, thats BS as well, to be frank.
They could have designed the game so it didnt happen. Instead they have decided to cash in on it.
There used to be a time where Devs used to worry about the integrity of their game and have more then just dollar signs in mind when they designed their core systems.
Honestly, it's now officially reached the point where it's pathetic how easily 'gamers' have accepted the Pay to Achieve revenue models.
Times change.
I would blame Blizzard, but if no 'gamer' purchased in game rewards then there would be market for Blizz to exploit.
yes, times change, but not always for the better. In fact, they can change for the absolute worst.
As this constant move from play to achieve towards pay to achieve in games demonstrates.
Its different. You aren't paying some corrupt politician for an unfair advantage in a free market. You are paying other players who also play for their time and effort.
Power to the people is the fundamental difference between this model, and having a cash shop.
No, pay to achieve is pay to achieve.
It dosent make any difference who is doing the selling. It just matters people are buying in game rewards with real money.
Just play the game and earn your frikin rewards FGS.
Does this by any chance mean that Blizzard might have ground for lawsuits if anyone trys to RMT outside of D3? Since they are not getting their share.......
it's not a rumor. They brought a group of people from media sites over to Irving, CA and told them about these new changes. It's possible it won't get implemented (if there is enough uproar about it), but it already looks like the feature is mostly complete now and they are intent on putting it in the game.
Blizzard will gain huge profit from this. Considering the likely popularity of the game hundreds of millions of dollars in RMT transactions per year be likely take place, so if Blizzard takes only a small 3% share (and I'm sure it will be higher than that) they'll wind up with at least a few million for a service that probably doesn't cost them much overhead to run.
What could be a huge negative here is that while it will probably reduce gold spammers (they won't have a need to advertise their site) the overall increase in RMT will promote hacking, duping, phising, and exploiting. Now, not only do farmers stand to benefit from doing this, now everyone does, considering gold and item selling was pretty risky and not quite as convenient before, now it's accessible to everyone and cheating is going to be more rampant as a result.
As far as positives go, if you ever get bored of the game and quit you could cash out on your items and pay for the cost you paid for the game. You might also run into a couple items you can sell for a small amount while playing too. Probably won't be able to make it into a full time job (I'm guessing a month long of play even for the most hardcore grinders won't net you anywhere over $200 a month) unless you make it a habit of botting or find some way to dupe items, but being able to supplement your time with some extra cash won't hurt.
I'm honestly more pissed about needing a constant internet connection to play the game (and that too is forcing even players looking for a single player experience to look at the AH as an option) because now I won't be able to play Diablo on the go on my laptop which kills the value of a quick dungeon crawler for me.
My big concern is that, again, blizzard have made hacking accounts more atractave to criminals, as they are baking in a need to tie in bank details.
Honestly I'm firmly against any moves to make it more MMO like so this is going too far, will hold judgent as I'll only be after it for singleplayer, and that may still be good if I leave the unwantedfeatures on the side of my plate.
Exactly.
I don't think it's QQing, as one brilliant poster put it, to be concerned about such a thing. It would be funny if the people "poo pooing" the idea that it's not a great idea....were the first ones hacked. But I don't wish that on anyone, truly.
And one way or the other....I'm still opting out on this "go 'round" of Blizzard's version of gaming. They've changed too much from the way they were "back in the day" for me to care about playing their games now. The "news" about them is always interesting though.
I was already a little meh about D3, now I'm just uninterested. Sure I'll check out the reviews when it hits, but I'm not going to be buying it. Not for a buncha years at least. Good luck, Blizzard (I guess. I mean, after SC2 and now D3, I don't think I'm going to be caring about any of their games. They seem to have forgotten that they are selling a product. Once I give them money for it, it's supposed to be mine.)
They might as well sell the items on battlenet and make the game P2W.
This already does make the game P2W, so all you guys who claim to hate P2W MMORPGs and now saying 'its ok' because it's D3 are hypocrites imo.
If anything this is a good experiment - lets see what happens before we pass judgment.
As for the 'it's gonna happen anyhow'... well, thats BS as well, to be frank.
They could have designed the game so it didnt happen. Instead they have decided to cash in on it.
There used to be a time where Devs used to worry about the integrity of their game and have more then just dollar signs in mind when they designed their core systems.
Honestly, it's now officially reached the point where it's pathetic how easily 'gamers' have accepted the Pay to Achieve revenue models.
Times change.
I would blame Blizzard, but if no 'gamer' purchased in game rewards then there would be market for Blizz to exploit.
yes, times change, but not always for the better. In fact, they can change for the absolute worst.
As this constant move from play to achieve towards pay to achieve in games demonstrates.
Its different. You aren't paying some corrupt politician for an unfair advantage in a free market. You are paying other players who also play for their time and effort.
Power to the people is the fundamental difference between this model, and having a cash shop.
No, pay to achieve is pay to achieve.
It dosent make any difference who is doing the selling. It just matters people are buying in game rewards with real money.
Just play the game and earn your frikin rewards FGS.
Achievement is a very subjective word.
"I've run my race. You run yours." - Penny Chenery Secretariat
If a person has achieved much in their life, and want to reward themselves, they should be able to. I don't agree with companies using it as a way to exploit money out of its customers but since its not going to be the company selling the items, and since this kind of market already exists, I see more pros then cons.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." - John Galt
WTF ever... 90% of the people saying they won't play, will play. I play LoL, AoC, and other f2p with cash shops and they have BIG (Or growing populations in the case of AoC). It's completely simple minded to think something you can get in a game (That there are several sites to sell for cash anyways) wouldn't be sold for cash. not to mention LoL is a f2p game worth 540 Million dollars.. or was sold for something around that amount. Believe thats an easy insentive for any company to do a cash shop... that's just a simple cash shop, this is letting you as a player make a little money for their work in a game. I'm all for that and you should be too.
"Sometimes people say stuff they don''t mean, but more often then that they don''t say things they do mean"
This is no big deal. They're not selling the items themselves, they're just creating a safe environment for those who were going to go to some chinese site and try to buy the uber gear only to get their identity stolen and account hacked. People who are crying against the supposed "greed" of Blizzard need to grow up.
I actually look forward to using this service to sell the uber items I come across for real cash. What other game would allow me to actually make a profit from playing it? Give me a break, people.
I still just get the feeling that the end result of all of this is that, with the slave-owning Chinese RMT businesses now having a legal venue to sell their virtual goods without the need to maintain a website or the like, the costs of running their business will go down while profits go up. This in turn means that they get to "hire" more and more farmers, which is bad both for the game and for the overworked and underpaid farmers themselves. With thousands of farmers playing 24/7 solely to make money, they will run the economy to the benefit of themselves and to the detrimet of average players (unless Blizzard puts some reasonable limits on prices), and with your bank details being tied to both your BNet AND whatever payment service Blizzard will be utilizing for D3, the incentive to hack your account(s) and the reward for doing so goes up greatly.
You might even need a W2 tax form to fill out if you choose to join the real money auction house lol. WoW, never in my wildest dreams would I have thought this would happen to such what was once a great franchise.
It's pretty funny because, as always, people only see negativity in everything.
If Blizzard didn't do this people would be furious because of third-party RMT sites selling anything and everything. Gear available for everyone. They would be mad because Blizzard didn't do something about RMT!
- Blizzard looses.
If Blizzard decided to implement Soulbound items as a way to deal with RMT, people and fans all over the world would scream in rage because D3 isn't the same as D2. They took what was once a great game and franchise and turned it into a WoWablo.
- Blizzard looses.
So, Blizzard decides to allow RMT under controlled circumstances. Small fee's to prevent item "flooding" and the Auction house clogging up with worthless items. Blizzard uses this opportunity to make RMT into something worthwhile, something everyone could potentially be interested in. Something a bit more safe and secure than going to third-party RMT sites. Something that might,(MIGHT, keyword) reduce the amount of asian item/gold farming. (If even by a fraction, still great progress) Something that might encourage people, other developers and companies to come up with their own ideas to best this plague that is item/gold farming, poor people living/"working" in and under horrible environments.
- Blizzard looses.
In other words: Whatever Blizzard does, they do it wrong. That's just common knowledge today. Because whenever they are trying something new, people spin their words around and suddenly it sounds like a horrible and greedy thing to do. Oh gosh, shame on you Blizzard!
This game is going to be great. I don't care whether or not they have a RMT marketplace. I will play D3 for the fun gameplay. Although this announcement does make me happy, because it looks like its already scaring off a large portion of the extreme QQers.
I still just get the feeling that the end result of all of this is that, with the slave-owning Chinese RMT businesses now having a legal venue to sell their virtual goods without the need to maintain a website or the like, the costs of running their business will go down while profits go up. This in turn means that they get to "hire" more and more farmers, which is bad both for the game and for the overworked and underpaid farmers themselves. With thousands of farmers playing 24/7 solely to make money, they will run the economy to the benefit of themselves and to the detrimet of average players (unless Blizzard puts some reasonable limits on prices), and with your bank details being tied to both your BNet AND whatever payment service Blizzard will be utilizing for D3, the incentive to hack your account(s) and the reward for doing so goes up greatly.
I dunno, the RMT sweatshops if anything will keep item prices down in terms of real-world cash. The "overworked and underpaid farmers" would take better work if better work was available... So, we have to assume that better work is not available which means it's a 'least bad' scenario that can only be solved by local labour laws which are beyond the control of Blizzard. In either case, cheap items and bad work beats expensive items and no income any day.
The REAL downside is that in order to maintain scarcity in an environment with cheap limitless labour as the only meaningful input, Blizzard will have to turn the valuable item drop rates down so low that an average player will stand no chance of getting great drops while playing the game as intended.
This could be countered with various mechanics that attach an inverse 30 day weighted average to the number of epic/great/good drops recieved. All depends on how things are ultimately implimented... wait and see I suppose. Though I'm sure players would feel more comfortable if the detaials were released in advance.
Whether or not any of you want to admit this, RMT plagued Diablo 2. Anyone could google one of these websites and buy anything they wanted, or they could wait for a spammer in game to come along and follow their direction. The only difference now is that the millions of illegal outfits running this will be next to none. Blizzard has faced this reality with the only logical decision, that is to regulate it themselves. If you weren't interested in buying gold/items and such, then you are still presented with the option of not doing it. This is exactly the same option that you had with the previous game. There is no difference, just because you didn't do it in Diablo 2 doesn't mean the option wasn't there.
I'm not going to say no to one of the biggest games to come out in the past 10 years just because Blizzard decided to do the only thing that can be done to fight RMT outfits. Take a step back and look at the situation. It's still going to be a good game.
Blizzard hasn't fixed this, they're just making sure they get their cut. ironically, this is also how organized crime operates.
Besides, the RMT thing (which never affected me while playing the first two games) is just one of the birds being flipped at the player. And their rationlization for no offline mode is insulting thin.
Actually this is more like when, in the U.S., many states legalized the lottery and ran it themselves. This pushed out the numbers running source of money for the mob, and the government got their cut. The way it was before was similar to how organized crime operates in black markets.
Comments
So many over reactions. And yet everyone here would end up buying D3.
I guess Blizzard feels they havent made enough money off of you neanderthals.
In d2 you could cheat items in offline, and open battle net games.
In closed battle net you was not able to make fake items, except bugging some of them. You could however clone items (duping)
But those kind of hacks wont work with D3. Items are all server side, and they learned a lot with D2 - so in WOW there was no way for duping/hacking items - so they have know how and will use it in D3.
http://www.teraonline.info.pl Polski Poradnik Gry Tera Online
yes, times change, but not always for the better. In fact, they can change for the absolute worst.
As this constant move from play to achieve towards pay to achieve in games demonstrates.
Its different. You aren't paying some corrupt politician for an unfair advantage in a free market. You are paying other players who also play for their time and effort.
Power to the people is the fundamental difference between this model, and having a cash shop.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
- John Galt
No not everyone. I wasn't planning of buying D3 but now I am sure...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Honestly, i dont understand why people are saying "WOW NOW IM NOT PLAYING DIABLO 2 ANYMORE" or "WOW BLIZZARD RUINED THE GAME WITH RMT"....
i guess they dont realize that the RMT Market exists with or without blizzard. Blizzard is just trying to make it so the secondary foriegn websites dont illegally do it. I honestly dont understand how this could ruin how you play. I actually LOVE the idea and will be playing a lot more now to make some money off the game. Thats just my opinion.
This game is going to be great. I don't care whether or not they have a RMT marketplace. I will play D3 for the fun gameplay. Although this announcement does make me happy, because it looks like its already scaring off a large portion of the extreme QQers.
My big concern is that, again, blizzard have made hacking accounts more atractave to criminals, as they are baking in a need to tie in bank details.
Honestly I'm firmly against any moves to make it more MMO like so this is going too far, will hold judgent as I'll only be after it for singleplayer, and that may still be good if I leave the unwantedfeatures on the side of my plate.
No, pay to achieve is pay to achieve.
It dosent make any difference who is doing the selling. It just matters people are buying in game rewards with real money.
Just play the game and earn your frikin rewards FGS.
Does this by any chance mean that Blizzard might have ground for lawsuits if anyone trys to RMT outside of D3? Since they are not getting their share.......
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
well this game just got added to my roster... im gonna make myself a lot of cash.
"Sometimes people say stuff they don''t mean, but more often then that they don''t say things they do mean"
One more game gone to toilet sink here. I don't care anymore what kind of a game diablo 3 will be like
it's not a rumor. They brought a group of people from media sites over to Irving, CA and told them about these new changes. It's possible it won't get implemented (if there is enough uproar about it), but it already looks like the feature is mostly complete now and they are intent on putting it in the game.
Blizzard will gain huge profit from this. Considering the likely popularity of the game hundreds of millions of dollars in RMT transactions per year be likely take place, so if Blizzard takes only a small 3% share (and I'm sure it will be higher than that) they'll wind up with at least a few million for a service that probably doesn't cost them much overhead to run.
What could be a huge negative here is that while it will probably reduce gold spammers (they won't have a need to advertise their site) the overall increase in RMT will promote hacking, duping, phising, and exploiting. Now, not only do farmers stand to benefit from doing this, now everyone does, considering gold and item selling was pretty risky and not quite as convenient before, now it's accessible to everyone and cheating is going to be more rampant as a result.
As far as positives go, if you ever get bored of the game and quit you could cash out on your items and pay for the cost you paid for the game. You might also run into a couple items you can sell for a small amount while playing too. Probably won't be able to make it into a full time job (I'm guessing a month long of play even for the most hardcore grinders won't net you anywhere over $200 a month) unless you make it a habit of botting or find some way to dupe items, but being able to supplement your time with some extra cash won't hurt.
I'm honestly more pissed about needing a constant internet connection to play the game (and that too is forcing even players looking for a single player experience to look at the AH as an option) because now I won't be able to play Diablo on the go on my laptop which kills the value of a quick dungeon crawler for me.
Exactly.
I don't think it's QQing, as one brilliant poster put it, to be concerned about such a thing. It would be funny if the people "poo pooing" the idea that it's not a great idea....were the first ones hacked. But I don't wish that on anyone, truly.
And one way or the other....I'm still opting out on this "go 'round" of Blizzard's version of gaming. They've changed too much from the way they were "back in the day" for me to care about playing their games now. The "news" about them is always interesting though.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I was already a little meh about D3, now I'm just uninterested. Sure I'll check out the reviews when it hits, but I'm not going to be buying it. Not for a buncha years at least. Good luck, Blizzard (I guess. I mean, after SC2 and now D3, I don't think I'm going to be caring about any of their games. They seem to have forgotten that they are selling a product. Once I give them money for it, it's supposed to be mine.)
Achievement is a very subjective word.
"I've run my race. You run yours." - Penny Chenery Secretariat
If a person has achieved much in their life, and want to reward themselves, they should be able to. I don't agree with companies using it as a way to exploit money out of its customers but since its not going to be the company selling the items, and since this kind of market already exists, I see more pros then cons.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
- John Galt
WTF ever... 90% of the people saying they won't play, will play. I play LoL, AoC, and other f2p with cash shops and they have BIG (Or growing populations in the case of AoC). It's completely simple minded to think something you can get in a game (That there are several sites to sell for cash anyways) wouldn't be sold for cash. not to mention LoL is a f2p game worth 540 Million dollars.. or was sold for something around that amount. Believe thats an easy insentive for any company to do a cash shop... that's just a simple cash shop, this is letting you as a player make a little money for their work in a game. I'm all for that and you should be too.
"Sometimes people say stuff they don''t mean, but more often then that they don''t say things they do mean"
This is no big deal. They're not selling the items themselves, they're just creating a safe environment for those who were going to go to some chinese site and try to buy the uber gear only to get their identity stolen and account hacked. People who are crying against the supposed "greed" of Blizzard need to grow up.
I actually look forward to using this service to sell the uber items I come across for real cash. What other game would allow me to actually make a profit from playing it? Give me a break, people.
I still just get the feeling that the end result of all of this is that, with the slave-owning Chinese RMT businesses now having a legal venue to sell their virtual goods without the need to maintain a website or the like, the costs of running their business will go down while profits go up. This in turn means that they get to "hire" more and more farmers, which is bad both for the game and for the overworked and underpaid farmers themselves. With thousands of farmers playing 24/7 solely to make money, they will run the economy to the benefit of themselves and to the detrimet of average players (unless Blizzard puts some reasonable limits on prices), and with your bank details being tied to both your BNet AND whatever payment service Blizzard will be utilizing for D3, the incentive to hack your account(s) and the reward for doing so goes up greatly.
You might even need a W2 tax form to fill out if you choose to join the real money auction house lol. WoW, never in my wildest dreams would I have thought this would happen to such what was once a great franchise.
It's pretty funny because, as always, people only see negativity in everything.
If Blizzard didn't do this people would be furious because of third-party RMT sites selling anything and everything. Gear available for everyone. They would be mad because Blizzard didn't do something about RMT!
- Blizzard looses.
If Blizzard decided to implement Soulbound items as a way to deal with RMT, people and fans all over the world would scream in rage because D3 isn't the same as D2. They took what was once a great game and franchise and turned it into a WoWablo.
- Blizzard looses.
So, Blizzard decides to allow RMT under controlled circumstances. Small fee's to prevent item "flooding" and the Auction house clogging up with worthless items. Blizzard uses this opportunity to make RMT into something worthwhile, something everyone could potentially be interested in. Something a bit more safe and secure than going to third-party RMT sites. Something that might,(MIGHT, keyword) reduce the amount of asian item/gold farming. (If even by a fraction, still great progress) Something that might encourage people, other developers and companies to come up with their own ideas to best this plague that is item/gold farming, poor people living/"working" in and under horrible environments.
- Blizzard looses.
In other words: Whatever Blizzard does, they do it wrong. That's just common knowledge today. Because whenever they are trying something new, people spin their words around and suddenly it sounds like a horrible and greedy thing to do. Oh gosh, shame on you Blizzard!
Tweet at me - Visit my website
Your forum name is quite appropriate.
I dunno, the RMT sweatshops if anything will keep item prices down in terms of real-world cash. The "overworked and underpaid farmers" would take better work if better work was available... So, we have to assume that better work is not available which means it's a 'least bad' scenario that can only be solved by local labour laws which are beyond the control of Blizzard. In either case, cheap items and bad work beats expensive items and no income any day.
The REAL downside is that in order to maintain scarcity in an environment with cheap limitless labour as the only meaningful input, Blizzard will have to turn the valuable item drop rates down so low that an average player will stand no chance of getting great drops while playing the game as intended.
This could be countered with various mechanics that attach an inverse 30 day weighted average to the number of epic/great/good drops recieved. All depends on how things are ultimately implimented... wait and see I suppose. Though I'm sure players would feel more comfortable if the detaials were released in advance.
Actually this is more like when, in the U.S., many states legalized the lottery and ran it themselves. This pushed out the numbers running source of money for the mob, and the government got their cut. The way it was before was similar to how organized crime operates in black markets.