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why all "new" MMO's fail
Swiftblade13
Member Posts: 638
Yep, time for another one of these threads. I haven't been active here on MMORPG.com for a long while, but there was a time when I was a very active member.
There are a number of reasons, and I'm going to cover all that come to my mind. First, we are tired of the model. I started with EverQuest back in 1998 or 1999, it was an exciting new world back then, but not near enough has changed for these games to "grow" along with us.
Why do all MMO's "since WoW" suck? Nope, not because they are WoW clones or any of the other reasons cited here on this forum every single day... it's because WoW is the ultimate MMORPG as we know the genre. Blizzard took the MMORPG model and came up with a winning game by doing the following:
Create a well polished game without a lot of bugs
Build the game so that it would run on most computers so people could easily talk friends and family into joining up
Use good art rather than high tech to make the game look good, causing it to age very well
Use an IP that transcended the "geek/dork" to "normal folks" barrier... an IP we grew up with that was as close as a video game could be to "cool".
Generating enough revenue to continue to very actively improve and expand their game.
Why do you all hate WoW? Mostly because of it's success. WoW clearly demonstrates that the best "MMORPG" that can possibly be made won't satisfy us anymore.
Why do MMO's suck?
1) The PEOPLE- The community is going to be full of idiots and bad attitudes.... "real life" is full of this but online there is even less reason for people to behave themselves... they can get away with anything... there are no serious repercussions.
2) The treadmill- For an MMO to be successful they need to hold onto their players... the only way to do this is to find a way to trick the people into doing the same thing over and over and over.... you can't very well provide a new and completely different game every couple months. So they put you on a treadmill with a never ending series of rewards to work for.... focus on the reward instead of the repetitive tasks and the game seems satisfying for many people.
3) The static environment- An MMO by it's nature must be a relatively static environment. First off the content has to be repeatable... so the bulk of the content or open world bosses and events have to be available to do over and over and over.... monster ridden ruins remain monster ridden, no matter how many times you clear them out.
4) This last may be debated... but if you want to hold the interest of the masses you have to make things easy.... MMO's were better for me when dying had consequences and no damned GPS maps... when quests didn't hold your hand and forced you to figure things out for yourself. That era is over and won't come back because people SUCK. If you took WoW and imposed a harsh death penalty, took out the GPS maps, and stopped the hand holding they'd lose 80% of their customer base because the lazy people would find it "frustrating" and "too hard".
Sandbox? Oh please. I played SWG from shortly after launch until a little while after the CU. SWG was full of bugs and exploits, but more importantly it was full of people who were interested in winning or achieving goals (like unlocking the force sensitive slot) instead of contributing to the game experience.
The people will ruin a sandbox every time if you let them in and give them a chance. I can't stress this enough.. people suck.
Make all the different variations you want, they are all going to be slight variations on the same "played out" concept.... MMORPG's had their day, it's over for "us". WoW will continue to dominate the market because nobody has the money to do what they do better than they do... and even if they did, you'd get bored of their game and wind up back on this forum talking about how that game sucks and preaching radical unrealistic ideas on how an MMO "should" be done.
Maybe some genius will come up with a whole new MMO concept that will really change things.... overcome the problems I listed above.. but I don't have the slightest clue how they are going to do it. I have "great ideas" for games I'd like to see made just as most of the rest of you do.. but none of them overcome those basic problems and I'm sure they'd lose my interest after a while too... especially because the players would be there with their drama and lousy attitudes.
Why do all MMO's suck? It's the "Massively Multiplayer" part that kills them..... and that is why I don't think any of you are EVER going to be satisfied with any of the titles you eagerly await each year.
You wan't to play MMO's? Go play WoW, that is as good as it gets. Me, I'm done with WoW because I'm done with the genre. I'm sick of the people and the treadmill..... and that is what makes MMO's MMO's.
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
Comments
Enjoy World of Warcraft. Really. I hope those that appreciate it enjoy it for a very long time.
What else can I tell anyone that creates a thread that advertises its' value and demeans the value of any other product, as well as the people that might be interested in something else.
Enjoy.
Stoped reading at the word WoW
WoW would have flopped if it didn't have the massive migration of players from wc3. And back then, everyone played wc3.
Most new games fail because they don't have any loyal customers to give them a strong start. It's the reason Nexon's terrible new releases are semi-successes. Because most people who play Nexon games only play Nexon games and are willing to give any new Nexon game a shot.
There are some good points here. The MMOs are shaped by what the players want. However, the developers have the choice to mold it to the masses and end up with a game you might not like, or to stick to their guns, have less players, but target a specific audience.
Bottom line is, it's a business and it's to make money, so you have to cater to the masses in order to make the most money and thus MMORPGs suck because you have a different opinion of what makes a game good compared to the masses.
Your lack of faith is disturbing.
Glad that you have WoW and think it's so great. I felt like that at one time too. I also felt like that about EQ2 for years and years, and played both games alongside each other. Fact of the matter is....after 6 or 7 years ANY, and I repeat ANY game is going to become boring and at least THIS gamer will suffer from burn out.
I have come to the conclusion that MMOs are not MEANT to entertain us for more than 5 or 6 years. Some can't even entertain us THAT long. I have played games for shorter periods of time and loved them as well. So the length of time isn't as important as the answer to the question, "Are you having FUN?"
WoW is no longer fun for me. I don't care how much some other person wants to build it up....it's a boring, dry, dead game to me. If someone else is enjoying it still, well....good for them! But don't go telling ME, who has probably played the game LONGER than you, that it's the perfect MMO. You think whatever you want to think, and so will I. When it comes to WoW.....we're NOT going to see eye to eye. It's not the perfect game....it never was. But it WAS enjoyable at one time. That has long since passed away for me.
You say you're done with WoW.....sounds like burn out to me. You're sick of the game, the people, the treadmill (which IS the game when you're talking WoW anyway). I don't understand what you're trying to say with this thread???? Play WoW because it's awesome, but personally I'm sick of it? WEIRD THREAD.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I've been playing DDR for 10+ years and it's not boring yet.
Sounds like a good game! That is great for you! =D
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I guess it all depends on what the definition of "failure" is. Personally I think most people here don't understand the meaning of the word, it gets bandied about far too often.
Take SWG for instance, the most recent game to get labled "failure", but it clearly managed to bring in more revenue than it was costing SOE (while they had the liscense) for eight years. There is no way SOE would have kept it live it they were operating at a loss.
If we use WoW as the measuring stick for an MMO then everything is going to fail, probably even Blizzards next foray into the MMO market. WoW's overwhelming success was partialy a fluke. That's not to say they didn't do many, many, many things right, but that all the stars alligned to make it a mega-success, something that will in all likelihood never happen again.
I have no hate for WoW, the game itself never interested me, but there was nothing wrong with the game or those who enjoyed playing it. On the other hand I hate the entire mentality that WoW's success brought to the market place. This idea that you had to have millions of players to be a success, has led too many developers to try and recreate the WoW success with changes to their own game instead of just finding success in their own right.
Stopped reading when he said Blizzard released a polished product in WoW...
How quickly people forget one of the worst launches in MMO history with more bugs then beetlejuice's lunch.
It's really getting tiring hearing about how WoW is the pinnacle of quality..they copied everything, hit at the right time and got lucky. WoW was and is and always will be..a very bland game with little innovation, poor quality and some of the worst CS around. Stop pretending it's some phenomenal game, whats phenomenal was their marketing department.
Oh and by the way..last I checked EQ, UO and EQ2 are still going strong with a couple hundred thousand subs (all came before WoW, though eq2 was the same month)
And games like Rift are doing very well in the post-wow market. I think Trion is very happy with where they are right now.
All MMOs since Wow does not suck.
But Wow did some things right. They had a fine budget, good programmers and they have always been careful so they don't release patches that destroy the game.
Badly coded MMOs fail, just like badly coded FPS or RTS games. And most MMOs that releases are badly coded.
But Wow is far from the ultimate MMO, it is just one of the few that got the basics right. Perfect world have more players than Wow even so if you kust measure numbers it would be the best MMO.
There will be a new crop of good MMOs eventuqally (hopefully soon) and they will be different from Wow. Because it is not so much the cloning thing that is a problem but why would people change to a game that is more or less the same as the one they already are playing?
Besides, people do get tired of doing the same thing over and over, even MMO players that have more patience than most people. Blizzard themselves have admitted that Wow have start losing players instead of gaining more and that do tells us that there soon will be time for something new.
Sandbox games are hard to make, that is true. But not impossible even if some people are jerks. You just need to reward people for being nice instead of for being selfish.
Use good art rather than high tech to make the game look good, causing it to age very well
If there is anything that is purely a matter of taste, it's art. I have never played WoW and never will purely because of the art style. In my opinion the art may have been a good strategic choice but I think it's horrible. I'd rather stare at a steaming pool of dog vomit.
There is no love for games anymore, it's just a business to the companies now.
This rant reminds me of a George Carlin skit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcCPlkw6dO0
After the end of the video, he says, "Maybe it's the people who suck."
Maybe our OPer is right. MMOs are designed for human interaction, maybe it's the people who suck in them, not the developer's fault for creating the content to go by. Then again, for the most part I don't know what people are talking about when they mention how sad the MMO populace has gotten. To me, it's never been better. Yeah, if you hang around trade chat all the time, you are going to find some ignorant motherfuckers, but if you spend any time just trying to talk one on one with these people and use curtesy language instead of negative you'll usually get people who are nice back to you. The people who say the community sucks are usually the people who suck themselves because they're probably rude or expect something out of a stranger. Going up to someone and asking them if they want to raid or quest with you, and after they say no, insulting them, isn't going to help. Granted, I have meant some sad people playing MMOs - for example, I meant someone who took RPing way too seriously (I'm on a RP server though, who can blame him?), especially for being the "bad guy". Harassing players, etc, etc. All in RP. Out of RP he was a decent guy though, for the most part. My point is, if you find someone you like in a MMO, or real life, etc, use that and get to know them better. Simply asking people to do stuff doesn't cut it anymore - you have to do things for them too. And life might not always be fair, you know, you help someone with a quest and then he leaves you to do your quests alone. THAT HAPPENS. But to say the community is horrible because of it? Give me a break! If you are doing all the giving, DON'T give anymore, and instead find people who will do a little for you as well.
A little kindness can go a long way.
No way could such a game as your described would ever be able to keep its subs and growing
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Disagree......there you have Arenanet with Guild Wars 2.... or Trion with RIFT...they do love their games and their gamers.
It's been losing subs for three straight years since peaking at about 12 million..or at least thats what numbers say from sites here and there, but since its nearly impossible to get factual numbers..who knows how many subs they have ?
And if you don't think poor products can be wide-spread you're mad. Notoriety and familiarity are *huge* in selling a product, WoW has them both now in spades. Like I said, they got lucky.
I find it hard to believe you started with EQ personally. Just sounds like you used that as your start point to keep people's attention long enough to praise the game you really started with...because I DID start with EQ and from personal experience it is more the ultimate MMO than WoW will ever be. I don't say that because it was my first either. EQ had bugs, it was rough around the edges...but it embraced the MMO part as much as it did the RPG section of the term MMORPG.
MMORPG's...in it's infancy, were about the journey, NOT the destination like all MMO's now are focued on. They are just glorified console RPG's anymore and lack a true open world feel, meaningful lore and questlines that encourage exploration and true immersion, and are cess pools for excessive douchebaggery with little accountability.
NO such thing as a perfect MMO being every thing in the game is subjective to taste. ALso, very few mmos have failed since Wow. You dont need millions of players to make money. IF you did WoW would be the only mmo
I had to laugh at that first sentence. Its like youre acknowledging the fact that this thread is redundant and awful lol.
All 'new' mmo's fail cause all these people are used to WoW and having their hands held through everything
I agree with every last word of your post. OP put "new" in quotes in the title, but the word in quotes should have been "fail". If a game makes money and was even moderately enjoyable for some of its playerbase for any amount of time, who can call it a failure?
Most of what you said is true. But your reasoning for WoW's success is jaded like everyone else's.
You can have the best game in the world. But if you don't advertise it and peole don't find out about it, not many people are going to play and enjoy it. If you took blizzard's marketing and applied to any mmo at the time, ANY mmo, it'd be just as successful. People cannot get it through their skulls that WoW is not special. In fack a bunch of free to play games have 10 times+ more players than WoW.
WoW is only popular because they advertise it on TV. Its the only mmo that advertises on televison in america (not including children's virtual worlds). In korea hundreds of mmos are advertised on television and do very well. This is due to the fact that so many people watch TV compared to those who end up being on a site that would show an mmorpg ad.
No one seems to get this including devs. Its so simple that its frustrating that everyone is too dumb to notice this. The only peopel that know what they're doing as far as marketing are blizzard and the company that made Zwinky. When they ran those TV advertisments they made a ton of money because the number of users increased by like 100,000+ within a one to two week period.
But yeah, MMOs suck because they haven't evolved. But WoW is not as good as it gets. Its generic.