I like rping in real life but i only seem to be able to troll in games. Seriously people tend to not rp in games and rp servers tend to be filled with people performing coitus in public places. CO for example. When i was playing that gamw, entering club caprice will show you101 bunny girls and 9001 d00ds who wanna cyber. City of heroes was like that as well in the eu servers but didnt encounter it in the us ones. Umm...yah! So i stick to rping irl -.-
You just have to ignore those people!
It's particularly easy to RP in CO or CoH, at least last time I checked.
Mostly because you can make whatever the hell you want, and throw whatever the hell you want up as a bio. It means there's a wide variety of characters and reasons they exist.
I get a lot of compliments on my bios, and I find they're a pretty good way of finding somebody who can RP their way out of a paper bag. I try to look for a bio that's more interesting than say... a really poorly written Twilight fanfiction. That weeds out most of the people right there.
It's more interesting to talk about things a little IC while killing, rather than just killing all the time. I like making snarky comments on the world, or pointing things out that are interesting or amusing.
... and it's even more fun when it's a character doing it, rather than just me.
... I guess part of the reason RP works pretty well for me is in general, all of my characters tend to be self-centered assholes, so I can cheerily amuse myself at other people's expense. Sort of a 'I can RP all by myself' thing.
I'm hoooooping I can RP in GW2, but I'm not sure how well that will work out. Oh well, I tend to stay pretty IC, so I'll get to have fun being my smugly philanthropic (I'm helping you because I'm BETTER than you) Asura, my fire-obsessesive Char (If you can't solve a problem with fire, the problem is you're not using enough fire), or any other character I come up with. I'm just hoping I can find somebody to play along with me, where we can just enjoy being cleverer than your average MMORPG mope who thinks 'Pulling.' 'lol' 'Next' is brilliant conversation.
(I'll also settle for interesting OOC conversation, but I do like RP as well)
I enjoy roleplaying games on paper, but I find it doesn't usually work in video games. If there is even one person in the group who doesn't play along, it doesn't seem to work for anybody.
This thread reflects just how tragically screwed up this genre is, and it was probably screwed up before "video games" were ever introduced into it. There is role-playing, and then there is role-performing.
Role-performing is basically just acting. You are taking a script you thought up before you logged on and giving your character proper attributes and dialects for the pre-created storyline. No, this never works out well in a multiplayer scenario. In truth, this style of playing is almost in direct opposition to real role-playing and can interfere with gameplay even more severely than metagaming.
Role-playing is simply doing what your character would do in the context of the game. Would your character save the damsel in distress, or would your character be the cause of the damsel's distress? Would you try to steal that shiny from the bandit, or would you try to get it back to hand it over to its rightful owner? Would you attack the capital of Lordaeron, or would you sail the seas in search of adventure?
Role-playing is a lot less theatrical and formal than people are trying to make it out to be. At the core it's simply decision-making combined with some combat styles and skill preferences. In a good roleplaying group of adventurers, people would be mostly quiet and concentrated on the environment. Goofy idiosyncracies and funny dialects are just cool fluffy stuff added on top, hopefully saved for less intense situations.
Your definitions seem to be skewed by your own personal playstyle. All those years that people thought they were roleplaying in pnp dnd and they were really role-performing? Besides, who does that? Nobody plays a character by script and the only pre-created storyline is that used by a Dungeon Master. Yeah, people work out their character's personalities beforehand, but nobody acts out things based on some pre-written script, maybe in some theatrical play or other form of entertainment, but not in terms of gaming. Sorry, but I call BS on your definitions. Roleplaying has been what it is for decades, long before MMOs or CRPGs came along and hasn't changed because of them.
Roleplaying is simply creating a character with it's own backstory and personality and acting it out, not with some pre-written dialogue but reacting to any given situation as your character would. It's hard to do and rarely done in MMOs, but easier to do in games such as NWN which played essentially the same way as a pnp dnd game played.
I love to role-play. Unfortunately, the only tools available in MMOs to support role-playing is the chat interface. There are too few ways to participate in the game's lore. I'd like to be able to vote -- for political office, for policies, etc. I'd love regular in-game lore events -- festivals, worship services, semi-public events (the Mayor's Ball). And where are the mechanisms to pray for divine intervention? What about artistic competitions for crafters? Judges could evaluate and score (vote) on the quality/artistic merit for all sorts of things -- pottery, artwork, singing, dancing, music, etc.
Since it would be impossible for a traditional GM to monitor every character in game, I would like to see a mechanism where other players could evaluate another player's 'reputation'. Give me a set of personality traits, like Worldly to Chaste or Honest to Decietful, and this would reflect how other players feel I have 'acted' in-game. There would need to be severe limits to prevent abuse, of course. And the personality traits should have some direct impact on the game. Myself, I've always envisioned something like this tied into a religious system. God X will give you some bonus (when praying for a miracle) if the worshiper is Chaste and Honest -- that kind of thing. Other NPCs should also take note of some personality traits.. if you've been generous (monitored by the trade window), the merchants might set you some 'special' prices to help you get rid of that nasty old cash. (Done correctly, this could help deter twinking).
Many games have animated emotes. But, why can't I embed them into a dialog, so I can /say Yes, [salute] Sir! and the animation fires mid-sentence. Give the player some more elaborate control over RP dialog, so that it reads out word-by-word, and let the 'speaker' control the speed of their text. Give the player the ability to add dramatic pauses in other ways than just purely textual manners. Give us a dynamic animation control mechanism, so we can build our own dance sequences, or special salutes, etc.
Role playing should be a lot more than /say I need a beer!
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Role playing should be a lot more than /say I need a beer!
/me eyes Mendel a bit oddly, then shrugs and says in his laconic drawl "Yer a rude one, aintcha'? Well, yore payin' an' all, so ah guess the customer is always right.". Picking out the most poorly cleaned mug he can find, random-Cowboy-named-person fills it up at the tap, tilting the mug as he fills it up and makes sure there's a nice frothy head. Sliding the mug across the scratched, dingy countertop, he adds "Yew might want ta' consider bein' a little more sociable, next time yew ask for somethin' though. People 'round here ain't always so understandin'".
... ... ...
... since I started off RPing in shared storytelling places, and moved to text based places, I actually rely heavily upon say and emote commands, and actually don't do nearly as much as I should with physical animations or what have you. Still, you can use the tools you have, and some imagination, and I've found it can work out pretty well.
... (or you can go play Second Life for all the custom animations a person could ever need, and then some...)
... I guess part of the reason RP works pretty well for me is in general, all of my characters tend to be self-centered assholes, so I can cheerily amuse myself at other people's expense.
If you find the right RP community, you could have a lot of fun with that. Actually, half the battle seems to be finding a tolerant RP community.
In the early years of UO, I roleplayed killers on two differnt servers. Servers were actually physically located in each region, so what you also had was regional people populating each server. UO saw very distinctly different communities as a result of that. On one server, my character was accepted. Some hunted her and some helped her. The character becamepart of the local history and RP. On the other server the character was rejected as an outsider to the RP community because she wasn't in an officially recognized RP guild and did not follow their RoE. On the server where the character was accepted, players were far more tolerant of each other's playstyles. In the town of Skara Brae, Non-roleplayers, rogues* and PKs all interacted with the RPers. If a PK killed a roleplayer, they rallied troops to go slay the murderer or they passed info of the whereabouts to the local PVP guilds. If the roleplayers were doing a festival in town, the non-RPers usually kept their battles to the outskirts for the evening. If a battle spilled into town and part of the event turned into a huge massacre, the RPers put it in story context.
Being part of the Pacific Shard community was something that I am very glad to have been fortunate enough to experience, especially since finding such a universally tolerant and interactive server community has been a very difficult task over the past decade. There have been some,but few and far between.
* - For those not familair with UO, roigue was more than just the front loaded DPS guy. You really could play a character that was a poisondagger weilding, trap-laying disguise-wearing stealthysneaking, snooping, stealing rogue.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
My first experience with MMO's and RP'ing was the joy of playing UO pre-trammel. As a young gamer who was just getting into the world and marvelling at all it had to offer, I normally kept to myself and just did my own thing. One thing I would do is kill a deer and, prior to butchering it, I would bow and have my character act like he appreciated the deer's sacrifice. Some RP'ers in a nearby tavern oversaw this and took me under their wings. Even though I was poor at RP'ing, I will never forget how fun and how cool it was to play with these gamers and to experience a much deeper level of gaming because of everything RP'ing added to the game.
Contrast this with my attempts to play LOTR (Landroval) and, following all the RP'ing guides, I made my best attempts to RP with the hopes that a RP'ing guild would once again notice me (or I would notice them and be able to approach them and hopefully make some friends to RP with.... RP'ing with NPC's and by yourself gets old fast). I did everything I could to RP ... walked in town, responded with emotion given the quests I was being given, etc. And, I guess the wrong people passed me be or I was just too crappy at it to warrant their attention. So, I uninstalled the game and now I'm back to Civ IV and dabbling in FFXI a bit.
I guess what it comes down to is enforcement. If there was a viable means of enforcing rp, it could very well be done and become quite enjoyable. The problem though is with rp rules and such, there'll always be that person who wants to play a man-bear-pig ultimate warrior with 10 million powers that wanders into the community. If they could establish a set of guidelines and rules for the rp to help with the immersion into the story environment while enforcing said restrictions and rules to keep breaking of character down in rp designated mmos it might actually be worth-while. I've often fretted that the NWN community was so small and wondered what it would be like on an mmo-scale (and no i don't count those awful f2p, people attempting to rp with no rules/restrictions where there's a gajillion super warriors or cyberkink pals running around)
Your definitions seem to be skewed by your own personal playstyle. All those years that people thought they were roleplaying in pnp dnd and they were really role-performing? Besides, who does that? Nobody plays a character by script and the only pre-created storyline is that used by a Dungeon Master. Yeah, people work out their character's personalities beforehand, but nobody acts out things based on some pre-written script, maybe in some theatrical play or other form of entertainment, but not in terms of gaming. Sorry, but I call BS on your definitions. Roleplaying has been what it is for decades, long before MMOs or CRPGs came along and hasn't changed because of them.
Roleplaying is simply creating a character with it's own backstory and personality and acting it out, not with some pre-written dialogue but reacting to any given situation as your character would. It's hard to do and rarely done in MMOs, but easier to do in games such as NWN which played essentially the same way as a pnp dnd game played.
This response is extremely amusing. You take offense at my definitions and then go on to define roleplaying exactly the same way that I did. EXACTLY the same. Me thinks you doth protest too much, meaning you probably role-perform more than you roleplay and are irritated that someone knows the difference.
BTW, It is NOT hard to roleplay in a sandbox RPG, say Darkfall for example. It is extremely hard to do when every quest or action you take in an MMO is linear and based on the stereotypical "hero." Different MMOs have different degrees of theme-park/sandbox orientation, so the ability to roleplay your character is definitely a feature you could attribute to particular MMOs.
If they could establish a set of guidelines and rules for the rp to help with the immersion into the story environment while enforcing said restrictions and rules to keep breaking of character down in rp designated mmos it might actually be worth-while.
This is really the root of the problem, right here. If you are really role-playing, then you treat the game environment as the actual world upon which you base all your actions. If someone comes out of nowhere with the name "PKGod42," a roleplayer treats his name and actions as insane gibberish. It makes no sense within the game context, so it makes no sense to respond to it as if it did make sense. Now admittedly, if the number of "PKGod42"s outnumbers everyone else by a considerable margin it makes roleplaying much more difficult to maintain, but generally the most public of areas can be treated with avoidance or ignore tactics.
The minute the roleplayer wants his storyline enforced is the breaking point for developer support. Yes, that other guy can interfere with your wedding/festival/worship. He is a part of the game world, too. Your reaction or lack thereof to him is as much of a part of the roleplaying experience (probably the most important part) as any other.
I do not think you can role play in a video game; they are far to restrictive.
Table top games are where role playing belongs. There are far less restrictions.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
I do not think you can role play in a video game; they are far to restrictive.
Table top games are where role playing belongs. There are far less restrictions.
It all depends onthe degree and type of roleplaying. If you're looking to gather at location x once a week and play out your character withthe other roleplayers, lots of MMOs allow that. In games like UO you can go well beyond that, as it offers far more tools and game mechanics to support roleplay and in-game storytelling.
The advantage to table top gaming isn't the lack of restrictions, as you're going to have about the same amount of framework to work within whether you're playing ADnD, VtM/R or even a homebrew. Where the tabletop proves far superior is in the presence of a DM or Storyteller -a person that can adjust the scenario and its variables to keep the game on track, entertaining and exciting.
MMOs currently don't have Storytellers, however several current and upcoming MMOs have live event teams whose job it is to infuse that extra level of depth and interactivity often missing from MMOs.
To say RP belongs only in TT gaming is to ignore the incredible amount of engrossing RP interaction that occurs in MMOs, LARPing, NWN servers and other RP circles.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I would suggest that there hasn't been a true MMORPG developed yet. How much code . development time goes into supporting the RP elements of the game? There is game lore, some NPCs have stories told through their quests, there are some animated emotes and there's a chat interface. Oh, and some games have fashion (although that's usually a cash shop item, so I haven't messed around with that). That's about it.
Most of the elements of the game revolve around the combat aspects -- combat / magic systems, mob construction, loot distribution, connectivity, merchant functionality, player-to-player trading, Auction systems, mail, logging, account security, customer support, etc.
So, I'd say almost every game out there is a MMOG with the option to roleplay through a chat system. With a chat system as the only real tool the gamer has, you might as well call all the RTS games RP games as well.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I would suggest that there hasn't been a true MMORPG developed yet. How much code . development time goes into supporting the RP elements of the game? There is game lore, some NPCs have stories told through their quests, there are some animated emotes and there's a chat interface. Oh, and some games have fashion (although that's usually a cash shop item, so I haven't messed around with that). That's about it.
Most of the elements of the game revolve around the combat aspects -- combat / magic systems, mob construction, loot distribution, connectivity, merchant functionality, player-to-player trading, Auction systems, mail, logging, account security, customer support, etc.
So, I'd say almost every game out there is a MMOG with the option to roleplay through a chat system. With a chat system as the only real tool the gamer has, you might as well call all the RTS games RP games as well.
That's an interesting view and I'm curious if you played any pre=WOW MMOs. If so, which ones?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
While I don't personally like to RP, I do like that some games offer the RP's their own server. Keeps them from annoying me and keeps me from pointing out they are annoying me thus ruining their fun
Sometimes I play on RP servers even though I don't RP. The populations seem generally more mature and better behaved imo. It can be annoying to listen to some of the babble though if you get around the Inns. But at times it can be entertaining and interesting too.
I may know the least here,but I am the loudest about what I do know.
That's an interesting view and I'm curious if you played any pre=WOW MMOs. If so, which ones?
EQ1, Ascheron's Call (briefly), Dark Age of Camelot and UO (very briefly). I also played in quite a few text-based MUDS before EQ.
None have had systems to aid RP beyond the chat interface.
I'll just run with UO examples:
- color configurable overhead text: personalized text and connect words with character
- distance and line of sight to speech
- constructible player environments
- permanance to player created structures
- permanence to player written documents
- the Seer program and the InterestGM team to support player stores and roleay through server-specific story arcs, customization of map areas, and even the creation of specific items to help facilitate roleplay in areas where normal game mechanics worked unnaturally against rolepaly efforts.
- persistent personal appearance : a player that likes the look of, say, a katana and studded leather when he starts can still maintain that look throughout his character's life. This concept has been acknowledged by most major MMOs since and has been refined into an 'appearance panel' or 'cosmetic gear' that players can display instead of the level-based tiered gear.
- custom inscribed jewelry for weddings, festivals and other ocassions.
and one of my personal favorites
- the ability to roleplay a viable healer, merchant or baker character without having to murder anyone to progress. Because, honestly, that was one of the coolest things about UO, you were playing your character and roleplaying it at the same time. You didn't spend all week eviscerating pigs and then meet up with everyone on Friday night to RP something completely different from what you just spent the past 20 hours of game time doing. UO had so many systems and mechanics supporting roleplay that for most roleplayers, roleplaying and playing were one in the same.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I enjoy role-playing in some MMO's more than others. LOTRO did a good job of making it fun. I wouldn't have considered it in EVE. I look at it in the same way I look at raiding, PVP, and quest grinding. Role-play is simply another option for fun on any given night. Though, I am amused by the controversy it creates on some occassions and weary of seeing players that enjoy RP attacked. It's not like you'd even have massive multi-player online role-playing games without people who role-played.
Your definitions seem to be skewed by your own personal playstyle. All those years that people thought they were roleplaying in pnp dnd and they were really role-performing? Besides, who does that? Nobody plays a character by script and the only pre-created storyline is that used by a Dungeon Master. Yeah, people work out their character's personalities beforehand, but nobody acts out things based on some pre-written script, maybe in some theatrical play or other form of entertainment, but not in terms of gaming. Sorry, but I call BS on your definitions. Roleplaying has been what it is for decades, long before MMOs or CRPGs came along and hasn't changed because of them.
Roleplaying is simply creating a character with it's own backstory and personality and acting it out, not with some pre-written dialogue but reacting to any given situation as your character would. It's hard to do and rarely done in MMOs, but easier to do in games such as NWN which played essentially the same way as a pnp dnd game played.
This response is extremely amusing. You take offense at my definitions and then go on to define roleplaying exactly the same way that I did. EXACTLY the same. Me thinks you doth protest too much, meaning you probably role-perform more than you roleplay and are irritated that someone knows the difference.
BTW, It is NOT hard to roleplay in a sandbox RPG, say Darkfall for example. It is extremely hard to do when every quest or action you take in an MMO is linear and based on the stereotypical "hero." Different MMOs have different degrees of theme-park/sandbox orientation, so the ability to roleplay your character is definitely a feature you could attribute to particular MMOs.
No, basically what I'm saying is your word "role-performing" doesn't exist. It can't be defined because you made it up. People make up slang words all the time I suppose, but it doesn't mean those words ever become an accepted part of the English vocabulary.
Roleplaying as a stand alone word can mean anything from acting out a script, what you were trying to define as "role-performing" but is simply 'acting', to improvisation. But in terms of gaming the roelplaying is open ended and it's what actors call 'improvisation'. There's no set script, but there is a specific setting and the character you play should have a specific personality. Both acting and improvisation can be considered sub-types of roleplaying. It's all the same thing.
I would agree that roleplaying is much easier to do in a sandbox MMO. In order to roleplay in a themepark you have to ignore some things, such as the quests that everybody does. Because everybody does them it breaks roleplay immersion. So basically questing becomes a level up tool but is ignored in personal roleplay. It's awkward certainly, but people do it all the time. But in all MMOs including sandbox MMOs you run into the problem of having to ignore certain things, such as killing the same creature over and over again. Killing the same world boss every week might be an example.
Edit: Acting and roleplaying are basically the same things, except in acting your doing it for an audience. Improvisation is a sub-type of acting but is also done in roleplaying. Roleplaying is a word with a broader meaning than 'acting'. I felt I better clarify that. Isn't the English language fun?
I do not think you can role play in a video game; they are far to restrictive.
Table top games are where role playing belongs. There are far less restrictions.
It all depends onthe degree and type of roleplaying. If you're looking to gather at location x once a week and play out your character withthe other roleplayers, lots of MMOs allow that. In games like UO you can go well beyond that, as it offers far more tools and game mechanics to support roleplay and in-game storytelling.
What I define as role playing cannot be done in a video game. Since I am the one stating it we know it is my opnion. I will stand by it. You cannot RP in a video game.
The advantage to table top gaming isn't the lack of restrictions, as you're going to have about the same amount of framework to work within whether you're playing ADnD, VtM/R or even a homebrew. Where the tabletop proves far superior is in the presence of a DM or Storyteller -a person that can adjust the scenario and its variables to keep the game on track, entertaining and exciting.
That is plain down right ridiculous. A video game is restricted by the mechanics and enviornment that the developers put into it. Table top is restricted by your imagination.
MMOs currently don't have Storytellers, however several current and upcoming MMOs have live event teams whose job it is to infuse that extra level of depth and interactivity often missing from MMOs.
That has nothing to do with RP. Story telling is not RP. That is a DM/GM pushing players down narrow story board that they created where the players are nothing more than actors in the DM/GM movie. That is not RP. RP is where the players have complete freedome to do as they see fit. If they want to rob a noble and try and get away they can. That is not always possible in a video game. Players ability to use the free will of their charecters is what makes RP RP.
Players need the ability to allow their characters to eveolve as ingame actions happen and change them. Just like we evolve over time and our actions and encounters drive out personality.
To say RP belongs only in TT gaming is to ignore the incredible amount of engrossing RP interaction that occurs in MMOs, LARPing, NWN servers and other RP circles.
I have played on NWN servers and MMOs and I have never seen what I would call RP. I see alot of thee and thou. I do not know anything about LARPing. I have a feeling it is an off shoot of table top where there is no table top; therefore, it is probably falls under TT for simplicity
If dissagree with me on what RP is that is all good. We can agree to dissagree. I do not think RP can be done in a video game. You need real people and the freedom to change and make the rules as they need to be. The restrictiveness does matter because RP outside of situation is meanginless. Video games dictate the situation. You can choose to use the MMO as a IM tool, but at that point you are basically doing TT with a IM tool that happens to be a MMO. The character in game is no loger functioning as the vehicle for the RP.
RP at its core is about freedom and choice. Video games do not give you either.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
I do not think you can role play in a video game; they are far to restrictive.
Table top games are where role playing belongs. There are far less restrictions.
It all depends onthe degree and type of roleplaying. If you're looking to gather at location x once a week and play out your character withthe other roleplayers, lots of MMOs allow that. In games like UO you can go well beyond that, as it offers far more tools and game mechanics to support roleplay and in-game storytelling.
What I define as role playing cannot be done in a video game. Since I am the one stating it we know it is my opnion. I will stand by it. You cannot RP in a video game.
The advantage to table top gaming isn't the lack of restrictions, as you're going to have about the same amount of framework to work within whether you're playing ADnD, VtM/R or even a homebrew. Where the tabletop proves far superior is in the presence of a DM or Storyteller -a person that can adjust the scenario and its variables to keep the game on track, entertaining and exciting.
That is plain down right ridiculous. A video game is restricted by the mechanics and enviornment that the developers put into it. Table top is restricted by your imagination.
MMOs currently don't have Storytellers, however several current and upcoming MMOs have live event teams whose job it is to infuse that extra level of depth and interactivity often missing from MMOs.
That has nothing to do with RP. Story telling is not RP. That is a DM/GM pushing players down narrow story board that they created where the players are nothing more than actors in the DM/GM movie. That is not RP. RP is where the players have complete freedome to do as they see fit. If they want to rob a noble and try and get away they can. That is not always possible in a video game. Players ability to use the free will of their charecters is what makes RP RP.
Players need the ability to allow their characters to eveolve as ingame actions happen and change them. Just like we evolve over time and our actions and encounters drive out personality.
To say RP belongs only in TT gaming is to ignore the incredible amount of engrossing RP interaction that occurs in MMOs, LARPing, NWN servers and other RP circles.
I have played on NWN servers and MMOs and I have never seen what I would call RP. I see alot of thee and thou. I do not know anything about LARPing. I have a feeling it is an off shoot of table top where there is no table top; therefore, it is probably falls under TT for simplicity
If dissagree with me on what RP is that is all good. We can agree to dissagree. I do not think RP can be done in a video game. You need real people and the freedom to change and make the rules as they need to be. The restrictiveness does matter because RP outside of situation is meanginless. Video games dictate the situation. You can choose to use the MMO as a IM tool, but at that point you are basically doing TT with a IM tool that happens to be a MMO. The character in game is no loger functioning as the vehicle for the RP.
RP at its core is about freedom and choice. Video games do not give you either.
I just love how people try to redefine a word to fit their own preconceptions. The term 'roleplay' simply means to play a role. That role could be for your boss to prepare for a meeting, it could be in the bedroom with your wife, or it could be to play a role of an imaginary character in a video game or a tabletop dnd session. The word is much more broad than you're trying to make it out to be.
Your definitions seem to be skewed by your own personal playstyle. All those years that people thought they were roleplaying in pnp dnd and they were really role-performing? Besides, who does that? Nobody plays a character by script and the only pre-created storyline is that used by a Dungeon Master. Yeah, people work out their character's personalities beforehand, but nobody acts out things based on some pre-written script, maybe in some theatrical play or other form of entertainment, but not in terms of gaming. Sorry, but I call BS on your definitions. Roleplaying has been what it is for decades, long before MMOs or CRPGs came along and hasn't changed because of them.
Roleplaying is simply creating a character with it's own backstory and personality and acting it out, not with some pre-written dialogue but reacting to any given situation as your character would. It's hard to do and rarely done in MMOs, but easier to do in games such as NWN which played essentially the same way as a pnp dnd game played.
This response is extremely amusing. You take offense at my definitions and then go on to define roleplaying exactly the same way that I did. EXACTLY the same. Me thinks you doth protest too much, meaning you probably role-perform more than you roleplay and are irritated that someone knows the difference.
BTW, It is NOT hard to roleplay in a sandbox RPG, say Darkfall for example. It is extremely hard to do when every quest or action you take in an MMO is linear and based on the stereotypical "hero." Different MMOs have different degrees of theme-park/sandbox orientation, so the ability to roleplay your character is definitely a feature you could attribute to particular MMOs.
No, basically what I'm saying is your word "role-performing" doesn't exist. It can't be defined because you made it up. People make up slang words all the time I suppose, but it doesn't mean those words ever become an accepted part of the English vocabulary.
Roleplaying as a stand alone word can mean anything from acting out a script, what you were trying to define as "role-performing" but is simply 'acting', to improvisation. But in terms of gaming the roelplaying is open ended and it's what actors call 'improvisation'. There's no set script, but there is a specific setting and the character you play should have a specific personality. Both acting and improvisation can be considered sub-types of roleplaying. It's all the same thing.
I would agree that roleplaying is much easier to do in a sandbox MMO. In order to roleplay in a themepark you have to ignore some things, such as the quests that everybody does. Because everybody does them it breaks roleplay immersion. So basically questing becomes a level up tool but is ignored in personal roleplay. It's awkward certainly, but people do it all the time. But in all MMOs including sandbox MMOs you run into the problem of having to ignore certain things, such as killing the same creature over and over again. Killing the same world boss every week might be an example.
Edit: Acting and roleplaying are basically the same things, except in acting your doing it for an audience. Improvisation is a sub-type of acting but is also done in roleplaying. Roleplaying is a word with a broader meaning than 'acting'. I felt I better clarify that. Isn't the English language fun?
Role play: to assume or act out a particular role.
Role play is to breath life to a character. To give that character reason and free will. To allow their actionss define them and allow them grow without prejudice. If you are following a script you are not role playing. Role playing is when you let go of yourself and allow your character to be what they would be if they were real and had gone through the series of encouters that you role played them through.
To often people think of RP as my character is this and they will always be this. Or I want my character to be this and this how I will play them.
That is not the defintion of RP. RP only happens when you let go of yourself and allow the character to be real without you.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
I do not think you can role play in a video game; they are far to restrictive.
Table top games are where role playing belongs. There are far less restrictions.
It all depends onthe degree and type of roleplaying. If you're looking to gather at location x once a week and play out your character withthe other roleplayers, lots of MMOs allow that. In games like UO you can go well beyond that, as it offers far more tools and game mechanics to support roleplay and in-game storytelling.
What I define as role playing cannot be done in a video game. Since I am the one stating it we know it is my opnion. I will stand by it. You cannot RP in a video game.
The advantage to table top gaming isn't the lack of restrictions, as you're going to have about the same amount of framework to work within whether you're playing ADnD, VtM/R or even a homebrew. Where the tabletop proves far superior is in the presence of a DM or Storyteller -a person that can adjust the scenario and its variables to keep the game on track, entertaining and exciting.
That is plain down right ridiculous. A video game is restricted by the mechanics and enviornment that the developers put into it. Table top is restricted by your imagination.
MMOs currently don't have Storytellers, however several current and upcoming MMOs have live event teams whose job it is to infuse that extra level of depth and interactivity often missing from MMOs.
That has nothing to do with RP. Story telling is not RP. That is a DM/GM pushing players down narrow story board that they created where the players are nothing more than actors in the DM/GM movie. That is not RP. RP is where the players have complete freedome to do as they see fit. If they want to rob a noble and try and get away they can. That is not always possible in a video game. Players ability to use the free will of their charecters is what makes RP RP.
Players need the ability to allow their characters to eveolve as ingame actions happen and change them. Just like we evolve over time and our actions and encounters drive out personality.
To say RP belongs only in TT gaming is to ignore the incredible amount of engrossing RP interaction that occurs in MMOs, LARPing, NWN servers and other RP circles.
I have played on NWN servers and MMOs and I have never seen what I would call RP. I see alot of thee and thou. I do not know anything about LARPing. I have a feeling it is an off shoot of table top where there is no table top; therefore, it is probably falls under TT for simplicity
If dissagree with me on what RP is that is all good. We can agree to dissagree. I do not think RP can be done in a video game. You need real people and the freedom to change and make the rules as they need to be. The restrictiveness does matter because RP outside of situation is meanginless. Video games dictate the situation. You can choose to use the MMO as a IM tool, but at that point you are basically doing TT with a IM tool that happens to be a MMO. The character in game is no loger functioning as the vehicle for the RP.
RP at its core is about freedom and choice. Video games do not give you either.
I just love how people try to redefine a word to fit their own preconceptions. The term 'roleplay' simply means to play a role. That role could be for your boss to prepare for a meeting, it could be in the bedroom with your wife, or it could be to play a role of an imaginary character in a video game or a tabletop dnd session. The word is much more broad than you're trying to make it out to be.
To play a role you need free will. Without free will you can act as the character would. You do not get free will in video game. You can RP with your wife. You have free will in your bedroom.
It is not hard to understand.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
Comments
You just have to ignore those people!
It's particularly easy to RP in CO or CoH, at least last time I checked.
Mostly because you can make whatever the hell you want, and throw whatever the hell you want up as a bio. It means there's a wide variety of characters and reasons they exist.
I get a lot of compliments on my bios, and I find they're a pretty good way of finding somebody who can RP their way out of a paper bag. I try to look for a bio that's more interesting than say... a really poorly written Twilight fanfiction. That weeds out most of the people right there.
It's more interesting to talk about things a little IC while killing, rather than just killing all the time. I like making snarky comments on the world, or pointing things out that are interesting or amusing.
... and it's even more fun when it's a character doing it, rather than just me.
... I guess part of the reason RP works pretty well for me is in general, all of my characters tend to be self-centered assholes, so I can cheerily amuse myself at other people's expense.
Sort of a 'I can RP all by myself' thing.
I'm hoooooping I can RP in GW2, but I'm not sure how well that will work out. Oh well, I tend to stay pretty IC, so I'll get to have fun being my smugly philanthropic (I'm helping you because I'm BETTER than you) Asura, my fire-obsessesive Char (If you can't solve a problem with fire, the problem is you're not using enough fire), or any other character I come up with. I'm just hoping I can find somebody to play along with me, where we can just enjoy being cleverer than your average MMORPG mope who thinks 'Pulling.' 'lol' 'Next' is brilliant conversation.
(I'll also settle for interesting OOC conversation, but I do like RP as well)
I'm not sure if that is RP or a personality disorder. No offense intended.
I may know the least here,but I am the loudest about what I do know.
Who, are you talking to me?
Well, the characters aren't nearly accurate reflections of myself, so I would think that qualifies as RP.
Your definitions seem to be skewed by your own personal playstyle. All those years that people thought they were roleplaying in pnp dnd and they were really role-performing? Besides, who does that? Nobody plays a character by script and the only pre-created storyline is that used by a Dungeon Master. Yeah, people work out their character's personalities beforehand, but nobody acts out things based on some pre-written script, maybe in some theatrical play or other form of entertainment, but not in terms of gaming. Sorry, but I call BS on your definitions. Roleplaying has been what it is for decades, long before MMOs or CRPGs came along and hasn't changed because of them.
Roleplaying is simply creating a character with it's own backstory and personality and acting it out, not with some pre-written dialogue but reacting to any given situation as your character would. It's hard to do and rarely done in MMOs, but easier to do in games such as NWN which played essentially the same way as a pnp dnd game played.
I love to role-play. Unfortunately, the only tools available in MMOs to support role-playing is the chat interface. There are too few ways to participate in the game's lore. I'd like to be able to vote -- for political office, for policies, etc. I'd love regular in-game lore events -- festivals, worship services, semi-public events (the Mayor's Ball). And where are the mechanisms to pray for divine intervention? What about artistic competitions for crafters? Judges could evaluate and score (vote) on the quality/artistic merit for all sorts of things -- pottery, artwork, singing, dancing, music, etc.
Since it would be impossible for a traditional GM to monitor every character in game, I would like to see a mechanism where other players could evaluate another player's 'reputation'. Give me a set of personality traits, like Worldly to Chaste or Honest to Decietful, and this would reflect how other players feel I have 'acted' in-game. There would need to be severe limits to prevent abuse, of course. And the personality traits should have some direct impact on the game. Myself, I've always envisioned something like this tied into a religious system. God X will give you some bonus (when praying for a miracle) if the worshiper is Chaste and Honest -- that kind of thing. Other NPCs should also take note of some personality traits.. if you've been generous (monitored by the trade window), the merchants might set you some 'special' prices to help you get rid of that nasty old cash. (Done correctly, this could help deter twinking).
Many games have animated emotes. But, why can't I embed them into a dialog, so I can /say Yes, [salute] Sir! and the animation fires mid-sentence. Give the player some more elaborate control over RP dialog, so that it reads out word-by-word, and let the 'speaker' control the speed of their text. Give the player the ability to add dramatic pauses in other ways than just purely textual manners. Give us a dynamic animation control mechanism, so we can build our own dance sequences, or special salutes, etc.
Role playing should be a lot more than /say I need a beer!
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
/me eyes Mendel a bit oddly, then shrugs and says in his laconic drawl "Yer a rude one, aintcha'? Well, yore payin' an' all, so ah guess the customer is always right.". Picking out the most poorly cleaned mug he can find, random-Cowboy-named-person fills it up at the tap, tilting the mug as he fills it up and makes sure there's a nice frothy head. Sliding the mug across the scratched, dingy countertop, he adds "Yew might want ta' consider bein' a little more sociable, next time yew ask for somethin' though. People 'round here ain't always so understandin'".
... ... ...
... since I started off RPing in shared storytelling places, and moved to text based places, I actually rely heavily upon say and emote commands, and actually don't do nearly as much as I should with physical animations or what have you. Still, you can use the tools you have, and some imagination, and I've found it can work out pretty well.
... (or you can go play Second Life for all the custom animations a person could ever need, and then some...)
If you find the right RP community, you could have a lot of fun with that. Actually, half the battle seems to be finding a tolerant RP community.
In the early years of UO, I roleplayed killers on two differnt servers. Servers were actually physically located in each region, so what you also had was regional people populating each server. UO saw very distinctly different communities as a result of that. On one server, my character was accepted. Some hunted her and some helped her. The character becamepart of the local history and RP. On the other server the character was rejected as an outsider to the RP community because she wasn't in an officially recognized RP guild and did not follow their RoE. On the server where the character was accepted, players were far more tolerant of each other's playstyles. In the town of Skara Brae, Non-roleplayers, rogues* and PKs all interacted with the RPers. If a PK killed a roleplayer, they rallied troops to go slay the murderer or they passed info of the whereabouts to the local PVP guilds. If the roleplayers were doing a festival in town, the non-RPers usually kept their battles to the outskirts for the evening. If a battle spilled into town and part of the event turned into a huge massacre, the RPers put it in story context.
Being part of the Pacific Shard community was something that I am very glad to have been fortunate enough to experience, especially since finding such a universally tolerant and interactive server community has been a very difficult task over the past decade. There have been some,but few and far between.
* - For those not familair with UO, roigue was more than just the front loaded DPS guy. You really could play a character that was a poisondagger weilding, trap-laying disguise-wearing stealthysneaking, snooping, stealing rogue.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
My first experience with MMO's and RP'ing was the joy of playing UO pre-trammel. As a young gamer who was just getting into the world and marvelling at all it had to offer, I normally kept to myself and just did my own thing. One thing I would do is kill a deer and, prior to butchering it, I would bow and have my character act like he appreciated the deer's sacrifice. Some RP'ers in a nearby tavern oversaw this and took me under their wings. Even though I was poor at RP'ing, I will never forget how fun and how cool it was to play with these gamers and to experience a much deeper level of gaming because of everything RP'ing added to the game.
Contrast this with my attempts to play LOTR (Landroval) and, following all the RP'ing guides, I made my best attempts to RP with the hopes that a RP'ing guild would once again notice me (or I would notice them and be able to approach them and hopefully make some friends to RP with.... RP'ing with NPC's and by yourself gets old fast). I did everything I could to RP ... walked in town, responded with emotion given the quests I was being given, etc. And, I guess the wrong people passed me be or I was just too crappy at it to warrant their attention. So, I uninstalled the game and now I'm back to Civ IV and dabbling in FFXI a bit.
Sad days.
I guess what it comes down to is enforcement. If there was a viable means of enforcing rp, it could very well be done and become quite enjoyable. The problem though is with rp rules and such, there'll always be that person who wants to play a man-bear-pig ultimate warrior with 10 million powers that wanders into the community. If they could establish a set of guidelines and rules for the rp to help with the immersion into the story environment while enforcing said restrictions and rules to keep breaking of character down in rp designated mmos it might actually be worth-while. I've often fretted that the NWN community was so small and wondered what it would be like on an mmo-scale (and no i don't count those awful f2p, people attempting to rp with no rules/restrictions where there's a gajillion super warriors or cyberkink pals running around)
I'm not racist, I hate everyone equally.
This response is extremely amusing. You take offense at my definitions and then go on to define roleplaying exactly the same way that I did. EXACTLY the same. Me thinks you doth protest too much, meaning you probably role-perform more than you roleplay and are irritated that someone knows the difference.
BTW, It is NOT hard to roleplay in a sandbox RPG, say Darkfall for example. It is extremely hard to do when every quest or action you take in an MMO is linear and based on the stereotypical "hero." Different MMOs have different degrees of theme-park/sandbox orientation, so the ability to roleplay your character is definitely a feature you could attribute to particular MMOs.
This is really the root of the problem, right here. If you are really role-playing, then you treat the game environment as the actual world upon which you base all your actions. If someone comes out of nowhere with the name "PKGod42," a roleplayer treats his name and actions as insane gibberish. It makes no sense within the game context, so it makes no sense to respond to it as if it did make sense. Now admittedly, if the number of "PKGod42"s outnumbers everyone else by a considerable margin it makes roleplaying much more difficult to maintain, but generally the most public of areas can be treated with avoidance or ignore tactics.
The minute the roleplayer wants his storyline enforced is the breaking point for developer support. Yes, that other guy can interfere with your wedding/festival/worship. He is a part of the game world, too. Your reaction or lack thereof to him is as much of a part of the roleplaying experience (probably the most important part) as any other.
I do not think you can role play in a video game; they are far to restrictive.
Table top games are where role playing belongs. There are far less restrictions.
--John Ruskin
It all depends onthe degree and type of roleplaying. If you're looking to gather at location x once a week and play out your character withthe other roleplayers, lots of MMOs allow that. In games like UO you can go well beyond that, as it offers far more tools and game mechanics to support roleplay and in-game storytelling.
The advantage to table top gaming isn't the lack of restrictions, as you're going to have about the same amount of framework to work within whether you're playing ADnD, VtM/R or even a homebrew. Where the tabletop proves far superior is in the presence of a DM or Storyteller -a person that can adjust the scenario and its variables to keep the game on track, entertaining and exciting.
MMOs currently don't have Storytellers, however several current and upcoming MMOs have live event teams whose job it is to infuse that extra level of depth and interactivity often missing from MMOs.
To say RP belongs only in TT gaming is to ignore the incredible amount of engrossing RP interaction that occurs in MMOs, LARPing, NWN servers and other RP circles.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I would suggest that there hasn't been a true MMORPG developed yet. How much code . development time goes into supporting the RP elements of the game? There is game lore, some NPCs have stories told through their quests, there are some animated emotes and there's a chat interface. Oh, and some games have fashion (although that's usually a cash shop item, so I haven't messed around with that). That's about it.
Most of the elements of the game revolve around the combat aspects -- combat / magic systems, mob construction, loot distribution, connectivity, merchant functionality, player-to-player trading, Auction systems, mail, logging, account security, customer support, etc.
So, I'd say almost every game out there is a MMOG with the option to roleplay through a chat system. With a chat system as the only real tool the gamer has, you might as well call all the RTS games RP games as well.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
That's an interesting view and I'm curious if you played any pre=WOW MMOs. If so, which ones?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
While I don't personally like to RP, I do like that some games offer the RP's their own server. Keeps them from annoying me and keeps me from pointing out they are annoying me thus ruining their fun
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Sometimes I play on RP servers even though I don't RP. The populations seem generally more mature and better behaved imo. It can be annoying to listen to some of the babble though if you get around the Inns. But at times it can be entertaining and interesting too.
I may know the least here,but I am the loudest about what I do know.
EQ1, Ascheron's Call (briefly), Dark Age of Camelot and UO (very briefly). I also played in quite a few text-based MUDS before EQ.
None have had systems to aid RP beyond the chat interface.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I'll just run with UO examples:
- color configurable overhead text: personalized text and connect words with character
- distance and line of sight to speech
- constructible player environments
- permanance to player created structures
- permanence to player written documents
- the Seer program and the InterestGM team to support player stores and roleay through server-specific story arcs, customization of map areas, and even the creation of specific items to help facilitate roleplay in areas where normal game mechanics worked unnaturally against rolepaly efforts.
- persistent personal appearance : a player that likes the look of, say, a katana and studded leather when he starts can still maintain that look throughout his character's life. This concept has been acknowledged by most major MMOs since and has been refined into an 'appearance panel' or 'cosmetic gear' that players can display instead of the level-based tiered gear.
- custom inscribed jewelry for weddings, festivals and other ocassions.
and one of my personal favorites
- the ability to roleplay a viable healer, merchant or baker character without having to murder anyone to progress. Because, honestly, that was one of the coolest things about UO, you were playing your character and roleplaying it at the same time. You didn't spend all week eviscerating pigs and then meet up with everyone on Friday night to RP something completely different from what you just spent the past 20 hours of game time doing. UO had so many systems and mechanics supporting roleplay that for most roleplayers, roleplaying and playing were one in the same.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I enjoy role-playing in some MMO's more than others. LOTRO did a good job of making it fun. I wouldn't have considered it in EVE. I look at it in the same way I look at raiding, PVP, and quest grinding. Role-play is simply another option for fun on any given night. Though, I am amused by the controversy it creates on some occassions and weary of seeing players that enjoy RP attacked. It's not like you'd even have massive multi-player online role-playing games without people who role-played.
No, basically what I'm saying is your word "role-performing" doesn't exist. It can't be defined because you made it up. People make up slang words all the time I suppose, but it doesn't mean those words ever become an accepted part of the English vocabulary.
Roleplaying as a stand alone word can mean anything from acting out a script, what you were trying to define as "role-performing" but is simply 'acting', to improvisation. But in terms of gaming the roelplaying is open ended and it's what actors call 'improvisation'. There's no set script, but there is a specific setting and the character you play should have a specific personality. Both acting and improvisation can be considered sub-types of roleplaying. It's all the same thing.
I would agree that roleplaying is much easier to do in a sandbox MMO. In order to roleplay in a themepark you have to ignore some things, such as the quests that everybody does. Because everybody does them it breaks roleplay immersion. So basically questing becomes a level up tool but is ignored in personal roleplay. It's awkward certainly, but people do it all the time. But in all MMOs including sandbox MMOs you run into the problem of having to ignore certain things, such as killing the same creature over and over again. Killing the same world boss every week might be an example.
Edit: Acting and roleplaying are basically the same things, except in acting your doing it for an audience. Improvisation is a sub-type of acting but is also done in roleplaying. Roleplaying is a word with a broader meaning than 'acting'. I felt I better clarify that. Isn't the English language fun?
If dissagree with me on what RP is that is all good. We can agree to dissagree. I do not think RP can be done in a video game. You need real people and the freedom to change and make the rules as they need to be. The restrictiveness does matter because RP outside of situation is meanginless. Video games dictate the situation. You can choose to use the MMO as a IM tool, but at that point you are basically doing TT with a IM tool that happens to be a MMO. The character in game is no loger functioning as the vehicle for the RP.
RP at its core is about freedom and choice. Video games do not give you either.
--John Ruskin
I just love how people try to redefine a word to fit their own preconceptions. The term 'roleplay' simply means to play a role. That role could be for your boss to prepare for a meeting, it could be in the bedroom with your wife, or it could be to play a role of an imaginary character in a video game or a tabletop dnd session. The word is much more broad than you're trying to make it out to be.
Role play: to assume or act out a particular role.
Role play is to breath life to a character. To give that character reason and free will. To allow their actionss define them and allow them grow without prejudice. If you are following a script you are not role playing. Role playing is when you let go of yourself and allow your character to be what they would be if they were real and had gone through the series of encouters that you role played them through.
To often people think of RP as my character is this and they will always be this. Or I want my character to be this and this how I will play them.
That is not the defintion of RP. RP only happens when you let go of yourself and allow the character to be real without you.
--John Ruskin
To play a role you need free will. Without free will you can act as the character would. You do not get free will in video game. You can RP with your wife. You have free will in your bedroom.
It is not hard to understand.
--John Ruskin