Politics already sucks the life and energy out of a society, as well as completely depresses anyone with the intelligence to be capable of looking beyond a single ideologue...
Now someone wants to bring politics into gaming?
Aren't guild politics and drama enough?
No thanks. I'll pass.
9/10 "rulers" will do nothing but benefit themselves and their guilds/friends, just like real life politics. The chance of an idealist/populist running the in-game politics is so low it's almost not even worth mentioning the possibility of the system NOT screwing over average Joe-gamer.
There's an important point about games. If a player dislikes his situation he will soon leave. This obvious thing is why all the MMOs are so "restrained" when it comes to Exclusive content. Be it a super-duper-dragon-slayer +255, a ruleing position or ability to turn people into frogs permanently. The "recieving end" of any such feature should be judged carefuly, because THAT is the most important part in any MMO element's design. And current presentation of this feature suggests that the most important part hasn't been worked out yet.
Heh, good luck with that...
Or, this +1134893847163711 amazing, amazing post.
This is why this system will likely fail, and be a major drag on an otherwise "could be good" game.
I really am tired of this Hardcore Vs Casual . Really, If you do not have the time to rule then why the hell would anyone elect you. Casual players would have no place in the politics of a game they are not devoteing alot of time to. Would you like your state governor to be gone 4 days out of the week becuse he could not devote the time to be there?
[Mod Edit]
Is that really the point? I don't think that any casual player would want a bit to do with getting elected or rule. But, I also don't think they'll want have their game ruined by hardcore gamers who have nothing else in life to do than ruin everyone else's experience. That's what I took from the article, not whether casual gamers will want to "rule."
And I don't mean to imply that all hardcore gamers would be griefers, but they are out there and we've all come across them. I cringe to think about all the high school dropouts living in mom's basement drooling over the thought of making everyone else miserable.
Just like any other mmorpg with guilds/clan/agency/organization and rank system, the people who think they are entitled to the same perks of those who dedicate themselves to the game in extremes will cry and cry and cry until the others get infected with their mediocre way of life. Thus, putting the game developers, in fear of losing possible income to continuosly support their game, in a bind. Do they bend over and nerf their game to a lesser quality to keep earning money or do they hold their ground? Bending over will make them no different from the other companies who sacrificed quality over quantity.
I love the idea of having a non-npc as a leader of a faction. The boundaries need to be carefully planned and polished or else the rest of the community will suffer. Jail requires a sort of offense function that reflect on their actions toward the home faction.
Will there be rebels? People will swamp faction rebels and make the whole leader of a nation thing fun.
I take it this system would be an expansion to the korean game at some point? Is this going to be in the NA release?
My only comment is that I would think there should be 100s if not close to 1000 ranked positions. Having 4-5 people running things on a server of 10k seems horrible in a game environment. I like the principle of the idea, but .. yea .. this is going to be interesting
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Originally posted by bestiacorpus Just like any other mmorpg with guilds/clan/agency/organization and rank system, the people who think they are entitled to the same perks of those who dedicate themselves to the game in extremes will cry and cry and cry until the others get infected with their mediocre way of life. Thus, putting the game developers, in fear of losing possible income to continuosly support their game, in a bind. Do they bend over and nerf their game to a lesser quality to keep earning money or do they hold their ground? Bending over will make them no different from the other companies who sacrificed quality over quantity. I love the idea of having a non-npc as a leader of a faction. The boundaries need to be carefully planned and polished or else the rest of the community will suffer. Jail requires a sort of offense function that reflect on their actions toward the home faction.Will there be rebels? People will swamp faction rebels and make the whole leader of a nation thing fun.
And the industry is finally showing that if you bend over far enough .. people will leave anyway because the game becomes boring.
While wow isn't the best example of a hardcore game by any means, I think if they had stuck to their guns 5 years ago and released more 5 - 10 mans with inferior gear, and kept releasing them, we'd still be enjoying closer to real endgame content.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Rf online has Race Leader elections evry month top 5 players get Archon spots with the most popular being RL. RL had the ability to apoint 5 more archons.
If Tera pursuits this system it will work quite easaly. No person will stay up on top forever, because you need to show face and do a good job leadingevryone.
oh and yes casuals will never be able to become this. because it is indeed timeconsuming. But why would a casual care anyway ?
edit:
If multiple spots will be given (like in said feature above) then there wont be a problem with 1 guild controlling evrything. Guildys and friends will vote for eachother but. there are other contestants with their friends and guildys wich in term provides a mixed position. between a couple of guilds.
No comments about it being GM only? Why should you have to be a GM, much less even in a guild, to rule? This just forces huge guilds to form and stifle all the independence and life out of the community. Most GMs are asshats with too much power in a virtual world as is. Now you want them to have control over people outside of the guild too? No thanks.
No comments about it being GM only? Why should you have to be a GM, much less even in a guild, to rule? This just forces huge guilds to form and stifle all the independence and life out of the community. Most GMs are asshats with too much power in a virtual world as is. Now you want them to have control over people outside of the guild too? No thanks.
Wow i must have read over that. Your right man... Guild leader are ussually asshats and should be busy enough without having to deal with being a vanarch. Their should be other requirments.
Having it limited to GMs sounds a bit strange to me. I'd rather an "Ambassador" position (guildies would vote for their ambassador who would have to be a different person than the GM -- though you can expect cheating).
It would actually make sense: you have a war chief, then you have the diplomat representing the guild.
This game is launching too late Swotor and GW2 and Firefall and Arch Age this game is going to get eaten alive and spat out.
Firefall? whats that? never heard of it.
SWTOR? just another wow clone, been there done that, expect massive drop in subs after a couple of months, enjoy your instanced quest hubs and 12341234 combat.
Archeage will come to the west in 2013.
Tera will probably sell around 500.000-700.000 boxes at launch, just like every other AAA eastern mmorpg in the west.
i hope there's assassination jobs from other vanarch encase i have to deflect from a scumbucket vanarch. everytime he/she dies from a assassination contract they loose points. hah!
Just like any other mmorpg with guilds/clan/agency/organization and rank system, the people who think they are entitled to the same perks of those who dedicate themselves to the game in extremes will cry and cry and cry until the others get infected with their mediocre way of life. Thus, putting the game developers, in fear of losing possible income to continuosly support their game, in a bind. Do they bend over and nerf their game to a lesser quality to keep earning money or do they hold their ground? Bending over will make them no different from the other companies who sacrificed quality over quantity.
That's the extent of it, unfortunately.
The moment a MMO developer mentions "oh, we're gearing this game to be accessible to both casual and hardcore gamers by implementing content for both", they're pretty much all but locked themselves into that path.
Because as soon as casual players find that there's some content in the game that is not "accessible enough" to them because it's designed for the more hardcore players (even though the developers said there would be), they will immediately start crying "foul!", about how unfair it is that there's content they can't do, how the hardcores are being catered to, how they're being punished for not having as much time.. They start demanding the content be made more casual or they and everyone they know will quit the game and it will fail... and it continues on.
In most cases, the developer does finally cave in (after enough complaining from enough people) and tone down the content... basically eliminating any hope of the game "catering to hardcores and casuals", and favoring the casuals almost entirely.
Developers need to choose their niche, stick to that niche, and be unapologetic about it. If you say "we're going to have content for both casual and hardcore", then mean it... and stick to it. When the more casual players invariably start crying "foul!", the developer needs to say, "We stated from the very beginning this game would cater to both playstyles. Casuals have plenty of content made for them to partake in. Likewise, the more "hardcore" players with more time to dedicate to more involved tasks and events have content made for them. We said that's what we were going to do, and that's what we are doing".
And that's it.
Because developers keep "bending over" (as it's been put) and caving in to appease the entitled whines of many (but by no means, all) in the "casual crowd", we keep ending up with the same banal, soul-less, generic and derivative tripe being released over and over.
Identify a niche, target that niche, focus on it like a laser and tune out the complaints of those who are "offended" because you're not catering specifically to them. Companies may not get "millions of players" this way... but frankly, even the ones who *are* going the "casual friendly" route aren't hitting those numbers either.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I really am tired of this Hardcore Vs Casual BS. Really, If you do not have the time to rule then why the hell would anyone elect you. Casual players would have no place in the politics of a game they are not devoteing alot of time to. Would you like your state governor to be gone 4 days out of the week becuse he could not devote the time to be there? Fuck casual.
+1 gtfo and go play your theampark mmo ..leave the real gameplaying to the vets at heart and play that mmorpg for a sence of acomplishment...not for a couple of hours here n there
+1 Agreed, I'm a casual mmo player and even I know I wouldn't be able to manage a political system. Leave it to the hardcore, the ones who work hard for it, are on for hours, and it'd still be awesome and interesting for the casual's to vote!
I really am tired of this Hardcore Vs Casual . Really, If you do not have the time to rule then why the hell would anyone elect you. Casual players would have no place in the politics of a game they are not devoteing alot of time to. Would you like your state governor to be gone 4 days out of the week becuse he could not devote the time to be there?
[Mod Edit]
I totaly agree. I am a pretty casual player myself, and I wouldn't want to go anywhere near a leadership role of this type. Sounds like too much work for me.
It's a proven historical fact that beer saved humankind.
I'm sick and tired of casual players crying about not being able to do EVERYTHING in an MMO because they "don't have time" and they should be catered to 24/7 so everyone can get a trophy. The political system should be something to keep hardcore player intrested, while other features like housing 10 man pug raids, PQs and welfare epics to keep them entertainined. If they want to be part of the political system and run things then they should be active or band together to get political power like they have to in EvE.
What I don't like from the article is the fact that you can do epic quest to get a PvP political spot. WTF? PvE for a PvP reward how does that make sense? Other than that, the system is instresting and I had thoughts of a similar functioning system, but mine would have be more PvP driven. Hopefully this will work out and not become just a token "fun" reward that has no meaning because nearly everyone can get into it.
It is encouraging that this is not set in stone yet, and that they are concidering dropping it if not found to be fun. Second guessing before release, and not after? I think they're breaking industry standards here. Great potential for fun with the pol. system, but could easily reak. On a side note, I am very eager to try Tera"s combat, but hate the art style of creatures/bams. Maybe I'll enjoy kiling them all the more, we'll see.
I really am tired of this Hardcore Vs Casual . Really, If you do not have the time to rule then why the hell would anyone elect you. Casual players would have no place in the politics of a game they are not devoteing alot of time to. Would you like your state governor to be gone 4 days out of the week becuse he could not devote the time to be there?
[Mod Edit]
I hate to break it to you, but RL politicians aren't in their office every day either. So ya might want to rethink your point.
It doesn't matter the play-style, ALL players should have a fair chance at any feature in any game, period.
Well, that will be one game I wont play. I really dont need the top douchebag from the guild of douchebags mess with my gametime. Throwing other players in jail? That just asks for abuse. Some guildleaders are already pompous bastards who think they have more rights then the rest. And since when is politics fun? Running a campaign? Lol.
I really am tired of this Hardcore Vs Casual . Really, If you do not have the time to rule then why the hell would anyone elect you. Casual players would have no place in the politics of a game they are not devoteing alot of time to. Would you like your state governor to be gone 4 days out of the week becuse he could not devote the time to be there?
[Mod Edit]
I hate to break it to you, but RL politicians aren't in their office every day either. So ya might want to rethink your point.
It doesn't matter the play-style, ALL players should have a fair chance at any feature in any game, period.
They have a chance.
But who will vote for a casual that logs in 30 minutes a day?
Comments
Politics already sucks the life and energy out of a society, as well as completely depresses anyone with the intelligence to be capable of looking beyond a single ideologue...
Now someone wants to bring politics into gaming?
Aren't guild politics and drama enough?
No thanks. I'll pass.
9/10 "rulers" will do nothing but benefit themselves and their guilds/friends, just like real life politics. The chance of an idealist/populist running the in-game politics is so low it's almost not even worth mentioning the possibility of the system NOT screwing over average Joe-gamer.
Or, this +1134893847163711 amazing, amazing post.
This is why this system will likely fail, and be a major drag on an otherwise "could be good" game.
Well said
Just like any other mmorpg with guilds/clan/agency/organization and rank system, the people who think they are entitled to the same perks of those who dedicate themselves to the game in extremes will cry and cry and cry until the others get infected with their mediocre way of life. Thus, putting the game developers, in fear of losing possible income to continuosly support their game, in a bind. Do they bend over and nerf their game to a lesser quality to keep earning money or do they hold their ground? Bending over will make them no different from the other companies who sacrificed quality over quantity.
I love the idea of having a non-npc as a leader of a faction. The boundaries need to be carefully planned and polished or else the rest of the community will suffer. Jail requires a sort of offense function that reflect on their actions toward the home faction.
Will there be rebels? People will swamp faction rebels and make the whole leader of a nation thing fun.
I take it this system would be an expansion to the korean game at some point? Is this going to be in the NA release?
My only comment is that I would think there should be 100s if not close to 1000 ranked positions. Having 4-5 people running things on a server of 10k seems horrible in a game environment. I like the principle of the idea, but .. yea .. this is going to be interesting
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
And the industry is finally showing that if you bend over far enough .. people will leave anyway because the game becomes boring.
While wow isn't the best example of a hardcore game by any means, I think if they had stuck to their guns 5 years ago and released more 5 - 10 mans with inferior gear, and kept releasing them, we'd still be enjoying closer to real endgame content.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
What is so controversial about this system ?
it has been done before (Hi RF online)
Rf online has Race Leader elections evry month top 5 players get Archon spots with the most popular being RL. RL had the ability to apoint 5 more archons.
If Tera pursuits this system it will work quite easaly. No person will stay up on top forever, because you need to show face and do a good job leadingevryone.
oh and yes casuals will never be able to become this. because it is indeed timeconsuming. But why would a casual care anyway ?
edit:
If multiple spots will be given (like in said feature above) then there wont be a problem with 1 guild controlling evrything. Guildys and friends will vote for eachother but. there are other contestants with their friends and guildys wich in term provides a mixed position. between a couple of guilds.
No comments about it being GM only? Why should you have to be a GM, much less even in a guild, to rule? This just forces huge guilds to form and stifle all the independence and life out of the community. Most GMs are asshats with too much power in a virtual world as is. Now you want them to have control over people outside of the guild too? No thanks.
Wow i must have read over that. Your right man... Guild leader are ussually asshats and should be busy enough without having to deal with being a vanarch. Their should be other requirments.
This political system reminds me of the king system from Knight Online. I liked that game, but so flooded with turks it was hard to play
.
This game is launching too late Swotor and GW2 and Firefall and Arch Age this game is going to get eaten alive and spat out.
Having it limited to GMs sounds a bit strange to me. I'd rather an "Ambassador" position (guildies would vote for their ambassador who would have to be a different person than the GM -- though you can expect cheating).
It would actually make sense: you have a war chief, then you have the diplomat representing the guild.
Firefall? whats that? never heard of it.
SWTOR? just another wow clone, been there done that, expect massive drop in subs after a couple of months, enjoy your instanced quest hubs and 12341234 combat.
Archeage will come to the west in 2013.
Tera will probably sell around 500.000-700.000 boxes at launch, just like every other AAA eastern mmorpg in the west.
i hope there's assassination jobs from other vanarch encase i have to deflect from a scumbucket vanarch. everytime he/she dies from a assassination contract they loose points. hah!
assassination lynch mobs watchout!
Blue Hole studio also said that they are adding castle sieges at some point.
This is the spiritual successor of Lineage 2.
That's the extent of it, unfortunately.
The moment a MMO developer mentions "oh, we're gearing this game to be accessible to both casual and hardcore gamers by implementing content for both", they're pretty much all but locked themselves into that path.
Because as soon as casual players find that there's some content in the game that is not "accessible enough" to them because it's designed for the more hardcore players (even though the developers said there would be), they will immediately start crying "foul!", about how unfair it is that there's content they can't do, how the hardcores are being catered to, how they're being punished for not having as much time.. They start demanding the content be made more casual or they and everyone they know will quit the game and it will fail... and it continues on.
In most cases, the developer does finally cave in (after enough complaining from enough people) and tone down the content... basically eliminating any hope of the game "catering to hardcores and casuals", and favoring the casuals almost entirely.
Developers need to choose their niche, stick to that niche, and be unapologetic about it. If you say "we're going to have content for both casual and hardcore", then mean it... and stick to it. When the more casual players invariably start crying "foul!", the developer needs to say, "We stated from the very beginning this game would cater to both playstyles. Casuals have plenty of content made for them to partake in. Likewise, the more "hardcore" players with more time to dedicate to more involved tasks and events have content made for them. We said that's what we were going to do, and that's what we are doing".
And that's it.
Because developers keep "bending over" (as it's been put) and caving in to appease the entitled whines of many (but by no means, all) in the "casual crowd", we keep ending up with the same banal, soul-less, generic and derivative tripe being released over and over.
Identify a niche, target that niche, focus on it like a laser and tune out the complaints of those who are "offended" because you're not catering specifically to them. Companies may not get "millions of players" this way... but frankly, even the ones who *are* going the "casual friendly" route aren't hitting those numbers either.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
+1 Agreed, I'm a casual mmo player and even I know I wouldn't be able to manage a political system. Leave it to the hardcore, the ones who work hard for it, are on for hours, and it'd still be awesome and interesting for the casual's to vote!
I totaly agree. I am a pretty casual player myself, and I wouldn't want to go anywhere near a leadership role of this type. Sounds like too much work for me.
It's a proven historical fact that beer saved humankind.
I'm sick and tired of casual players crying about not being able to do EVERYTHING in an MMO because they "don't have time" and they should be catered to 24/7 so everyone can get a trophy. The political system should be something to keep hardcore player intrested, while other features like housing 10 man pug raids, PQs and welfare epics to keep them entertainined. If they want to be part of the political system and run things then they should be active or band together to get political power like they have to in EvE.
What I don't like from the article is the fact that you can do epic quest to get a PvP political spot. WTF? PvE for a PvP reward how does that make sense? Other than that, the system is instresting and I had thoughts of a similar functioning system, but mine would have be more PvP driven. Hopefully this will work out and not become just a token "fun" reward that has no meaning because nearly everyone can get into it.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Pretty sure ArchAge is the spirtual successor to L2 since its being developed by the lead dev of L2
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
It is encouraging that this is not set in stone yet, and that they are concidering dropping it if not found to be fun. Second guessing before release, and not after? I think they're breaking industry standards here. Great potential for fun with the pol. system, but could easily reak. On a side note, I am very eager to try Tera"s combat, but hate the art style of creatures/bams. Maybe I'll enjoy kiling them all the more, we'll see.
I hate to break it to you, but RL politicians aren't in their office every day either. So ya might want to rethink your point.
It doesn't matter the play-style, ALL players should have a fair chance at any feature in any game, period.
Well, that will be one game I wont play. I really dont need the top douchebag from the guild of douchebags mess with my gametime. Throwing other players in jail? That just asks for abuse. Some guildleaders are already pompous bastards who think they have more rights then the rest. And since when is politics fun? Running a campaign? Lol.
They have a chance.
But who will vote for a casual that logs in 30 minutes a day?
This game is more and more reaching my top list.
It looks like it's a real WOW killer