Not to mention that he completely ignores that each time you get killed it takes longer and longer before you can rez yourself again. I guess you could call it a "upwardly scaling" penalty on top of the cost to repair your armor. Of course if you don't mention that then the rant sounds so much more justified instead of just a rant.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Question for the guys promoting a more severe death penalty:
What is a good death penalty for you guys?
From the top of my head i would think this...
I'm solo questing. Not even inside a "cave" where I had to defead 152 creatures before reaching the rare mob inside it. No, no. Just on an open plain, filled with killer bunnies. One of them jumps and bites off my jugular vein = X_x
Now what you guys think is the propper way to punish me for my defeat?
I choose to go back to my respawn point, so now I have to walk aaaaaaaaaaall the way back to face that blood thirsty killer bunny.
I choose to rez right at the spot, but all my stats are penalyzed, my hp and mana are drained, my gear is damaged and I am no match for the killer bunny, who smelled my still warm blood, and inmediately turned around to finish what he started, and alas, I die again.
I choose to rez at my respawn point, but all my stats are penalyzed, my hp and mana are drained, my gear is damaged, so not being a match for a killer bunny, I have to spend an outrageous ammount of money with NPCs or other Players, who have secondary proffesions who can repair my gear and heal my wounds, before I got back for another round vs the killer bunny.
I choose to rez at my respawn point, but all my stats are penalyzed, my hp and mana are drained, my gear is damaged, so not being a match for a killer bunny, I have to spend a ridiculous ammount of time, say 1 hour, before the rez secondary effects go away. In the meantime, I go around the city and outskirts gathering / trading the raw materials I will need to repair my damaged gear.
Or something along those lines. Seriously. What is a propper death penalty in a moder age (i'm talking OUR TIME ~ 2011, not the game setting) mmorpg?
Originally posted by koira1 Also about that Medic drone, he also said that if you keep using it, it will take longer and longer for the drone to appear.
downtime for medical droid use start from 1min and go up to 10min
Yeah, we used to die, drop a shard and all our crap in a pile... respawn across 3 zones.... run back nekkid and dying over and over until (hopefully) we could finally get back to our crap pile and our spirit shard and reincarnate. Fun.
Oh, and lets not forget losing xp the whole time... some nights just logging in to lose a level and get so frustrated you wanted to throw the computer through the wall. Losing xp for other people in your group who died was even a finer idea. Once a gnome drowned in a sewer because he afk'd while zoning in and wasn't TALL enough to have his head above water and I lost xp.
I miss those days.... /sigh
Now, all you have to worry about is the social humiliation of playing like crap and dying... maybe getting raid kicked, then possibly guild kicked... and being publically humiliated in a global channel or getting black balled from other guilds because you're a craptastic player. Oh, you don't even have to DIE... you can just be 7th on a damage meter and suffer the same way... toon cybercide.
I'm all for devs having a long list of relatively difficult hoops for players to jump through so they feel they've really accomplished something when they finally finish but I believe any type of masochistic bullshat like painful, zone hopping shard chases while dead should be optional or left out. A game should be fun more than anything else... if you want to get spanked, I think you can pay for that somewhere else.
so theres no penalty for dying.. big deal.. very few games these days have them.. and their not exactly all that popular.. taking a hit on equipment from dying is practically the standard format these days.. i think the only controversial factor is the 'instant rezz' they should at least only allow people to be rezzed after combat has ended..
Oh, and lets not forget losing xp the whole time... some nights just logging in to lose a level and get so frustrated you wanted to throw the computer through the wall. Losing xp for other people in your group who died was even a finer idea. Once a gnome drowned in a sewer because he afk'd while zoning in and wasn't TALL enough to have his head above water and I lost xp.
Oh, dear God! I remember my first days in MMOs. FFXI to be specific. I remember working my life out to gather the money to get those spells in my black mage, and that incredibly expensive gear for X lvl. And how proud I felt when I did it. Then It happened...
As I walked out that city, someone was being chased by a mob, and once he got away, guess towards who the mob turned to? My black mage died. And I lost just enough XP to lose a level. So, now my powerfull blackmage was naked and without money to get out of the city, and of course, couldnt kill his way through a lower level zone to get that XP back. SO MUCH FUN!....
First of all, what is your idea of a death penalty in a game?
If it consists of wasting time finding your body and then waiting for some rediculous penalty to go away or going out of your way to spend your money to get rid of it then I think it's taking away from your gaming experience.
I think having a penalty to armor durability and longer waiting times for the medical probe is just enough. But that's just my opinion.
While I'm all for death consequences ala EQ style, the corpse runs we have now in WOW are a waste of time and just annoying, so getting rid of them is not abad thing, i guess.
My question would be why have anyone die, knocked out, or defeated then at all? The idea / mechanic itself is to represent the consequences of failure. If there are no consequences, why even have the mechanism for failure?
Really? Even with no death penalty you die because you are not supposed to kill lvl100 boss as lvl10 char, and that's exactly what you could do if you did not die at all. That's why you have a mechanics for failure, for the failure it self, it's purpose is to prevent you from overperforming considering your level/gear/skill/etc and to tell you that you failed, it's the basic consequence before the added harshness. Now on top of that you can add res timers, equipment loss, a pouring rain of crap or character deletion etc etc but the basic purpose is a failure when you try to do something you are not capable of, or do not have tools for, get ambushed/whatever.
While I think the TOR failure is a bit too soft to say it lightly, it still does its core purpose.
First of all, what is your idea of a death penalty in a game?
If it consists of wasting time finding your body and then waiting for some rediculous penalty to go away or going out of your way to spend your money to get rid of it then I think it's taking away from your gaming experience.
I think having a penalty to armor durability and longer waiting times for the medical probe is just enough. But that's just my opinion.
To me it can be alot of diffrent things, mainly something that slap you on the hand for beeing foolish. Wows corpse run is a good example, not a hugh time waster but annoying enough for you not wanting to die. You should not be reward for dieing just becouse dieing alone can be annoying to some.
Aoc is a horrible example where death had no meaning so people used it as a fast travel, i stil playd it but that system was a joke.
Tor i would need to play to judge, if the worlds are to big it gets annoying with Corpse run
I think death in game should be even more exciting.....when you die, you gear stays on your corpse until you get it back......to prevent people from looting you on the spot when you die you get a 5 minute timer to get back to your corpse or you are lootable to all other players.
THAT would motivate people not to die, but if you do it would also motivate to get to your corpse faster (less AFK'rs too ) because time is ticking.
i know its too HC for some people here but thats the only thing that can realy make ME "afraid" to die
can someone tell that guy on the youtube the "cynical brit" to say jimmy crack corn and i dont care lol. That guy should do voice overs on the game hehe
I think death in game should be even more exciting.....when you die, you gear stays on your corpse until you get it back......to prevent people from looting you on the spot when you die you get a 5 minute timer to get back to your corpse or you are lootable to all other players.
THAT would motivate people not to die, but if you do it would also motivate to get to your corpse faster (less AFK'rs too ) because time is ticking.
i know its too HC for some people here but thats the only thing that can realy make ME "afraid" to die
A game that implements this kind of Death Penalty would have one of two things happen:
1- It would quickly find itself bleeding players until only a very small group of niche players would stick around (in other words it would die).
2- The Devs would end up nerfing the system all together to stop the bleed of customers (and therefore money).
Either way SWTOR would fail if that system is implemented because after all the money that was spent to produce it, it needs the high number of purchases and subscribers to keep going, especially if they want to be able to afford to pay people to actually fix and expand the game.
Thankfully BioWare is not this shortsighted.
It might be an interesting feature to put on specific servers though just for those more Hardcore players that wish to use it.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
if U die U can respawn first time almost instantly, than longer and longer... or respawn at Med Bay whole the way back to camp, so its waiting every time longer, or go whole the way trough respawn... no running back in ghost skipping all mobs as many times as U wish...
totally better than running as ghost 10 times in 5 minutes killing group of elites one by one (ala "vanilla WoW"), here if U made mistake U can easily respawn and skip the group altoghether, or change aproach, but after few times its few minutes... first mobs will respawn... its not "more casual", its "more logical"
Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind. Dr.Seuss
Well i aint read through the hole thread, jsut the first page...
Well this game has dropped down another notch for me.. I mean i knew it was gonna be a theme park game no issues with that as sometimes they can be fun for a bit... but really no real death as you just get ressed by some invisible droid thats with you ?
I was not gonna get this game to start with anyway because of the silly price tag, but im probally not gonna pick this up at all unless i see it in a bargain bin for £5 or somthing..
Sorry i hate all this recent dumbing down of RPG elements on so called RPG games, its not just this game but its happennig too much now
My question would be why have anyone die, knocked out, or defeated then at all? The idea / mechanic itself is to represent the consequences of failure. If there are no consequences, why even have the mechanism for failure?
yeah whats next players running around without the ability to lose health. god MMOs are getting pathetic. I understand people don't want to go back to the day were MMOs were a job and dying made you nearly want to delete your character and cancel your account .. but come on this is getting silly.
Guess we all have to play Guild Wars 2 instead.
Oh wait.
You don't die in Guild Wars 2 either.
Let's go play some game that only 10 other people play so we can be hardcore.
I hear they have electrical censors that zap your balls everytime you die.
AWESOME!!! I'd play tha...?....wait..did you say it zaps my balls?...er...I...fug it...sure I'll still play. Now that's innovation!!!
So what gets zapped on the ladies? Cause...I'd pay money for webcam vids of that!
Personally, I want games that reward me for overcoming obstacles, not games that punish me for failing. It's the whole positive reinforcement thing. A game does not have to have permadeath, full loot, and XP loss to be fun or challenging. We all remember how popular Darkfall was after all.
I've played the more hardcore version too, mind you. I remember deleveling in FFXI after weeks of grinding just because of one person's simple mistake. In my book, that is unecessary, and at best can only be called poor game design.
Before we get into "risk vs. reward," I'd also like to point a few things out about the OP's stamements here. He's left quite a bit out. I'm sure it was unintentional, and just general misinformation, but it's important none the less. Instanced group play does not get the option to resurrect via medical probe droid. You go back to the cloning facility. The planets are LARGE and a trip back to the cloning facility was quite the walk back out when doing simple quests, so the devs thought that a system like this woule get players back to the game instead of filling all of your time with unecessary travel. Also important to note is that the cool down on this ability quickly scales upwards. One cannot just kill, die, kill, die ad nauseum until you get it right.
All of the above information was taken directly from the SWTOR website. I won't look up specific quotes for you as the coffee is still brewing and it's early, but it's all there in the dev tracker for all that wish to sift through it. I approve of this death system. AT least it isn't a ghost corpse run.
Personally I am happy with the system they have as it is set up right now and I will not make a final decision until I see it in the game and get a chance to actually experience it.
If I personally could ADD one thing though it would be a system similar to what City Of Heroes does. Every time you die you earn a certain amount of XP Debt, based upon your level, up to a specific max amount. That debt gets paid off through normal xp earnings, but half of all the future xp goes to paying off the debt until done and then you earn xp normally. This way you did not lose anything, but it was still inconviencing to you.
I think having a gear degradation and xp debt would be enough to satisfy some of the more hardcore players while still not overly punishing people for making a mistake.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
My question would be why have anyone die, knocked out, or defeated then at all? The idea / mechanic itself is to represent the consequences of failure. If there are no consequences, why even have the mechanism for failure?
yeah whats next players running around without the ability to lose health. god MMOs are getting pathetic. I understand people don't want to go back to the day were MMOs were a job and dying made you nearly want to delete your character and cancel your account .. but come on this is getting silly.
Guess we all have to play Guild Wars 2 instead.
Oh wait.
You don't die in Guild Wars 2 either.
Let's go play some game that only 10 other people play so we can be hardcore.
I hear they have electrical censors that zap your balls everytime you die.
QFT, people "forget" that when hailing GW2 as the next Jesus and it's not just on death penality, like instanced housing or blocks in GW2 not seen much critique about it but my god TOR got instanced ships as home which is horrible. Or the animations in TOR is supposedly "clunky", well as far as I've seen GW2 is not much better, at least TOR can connect and block strikes.
The penalty when dying in TOR is just that, you lost, bit the bullet, start over. The droids take longer time each time you die and eventually you must revive at the cloning center or whatever it was called. I'm sure there will be some stats for PvP like times dead vs times won. We really don't need XP loss, item loss or whatever in addition even tough I would personally loved to loot one or more items from my opponent, I fully understand the choice in "penality" by BW.
My favorite part of the OP's post was the slipping in of the word 'entitlement' ... Me thinks someone heard the guys in the big boy pants say it on the news channels constantly (and incorrectly) and is now trying to slap it into a gaming genre, Neverminding the fact that people pay for the game and the online service and are, in fact, entitled to what they want out of it.
My question would be why have anyone die, knocked out, or defeated then at all? The idea / mechanic itself is to represent the consequences of failure. If there are no consequences, why even have the mechanism for failure?
Because a lot of people find it "unfair" to be "punished" for being shitty, reckless players.
'course... you can never reward them enough for being absolutely mediocre and doing the most absolutely mundane things. If you could get half a level of xp for simply typing an emote correctly, there'd be people saying "Finally!!! A dev that understands how we deserve to be rewarded for typing /laugh successfully!".
Tell them there's a 3 minute "resurrection sickness" associated, and they're all "That isn't fun!!!! Why am I being punished for failing!!!" I've actually seen people say, and I quote, "This is 2011. Dying should be fun. Why dont' devevelopers understand this?" And they weren't joking. I don't think I've ever /facepalmed so hard.
I had near zero interest in this game before.... but still a "glimmer" of interest... 'cause you never know.
After this little nugget... It has officially hit zero.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
My question would be why have anyone die, knocked out, or defeated then at all? The idea / mechanic itself is to represent the consequences of failure. If there are no consequences, why even have the mechanism for failure?
yeah whats next players running around without the ability to lose health. god MMOs are getting pathetic. I understand people don't want to go back to the day were MMOs were a job and dying made you nearly want to delete your character and cancel your account .. but come on this is getting silly.
Guess we all have to play Guild Wars 2 instead.
Oh wait.
You don't die in Guild Wars 2 either.
Let's go play some game that only 10 other people play so we can be hardcore.
I hear they have electrical censors that zap your balls everytime you die.
QFT, people "forget" that when hailing GW2 as the next Jesus and it's not just on death penality, like instanced housing or blocks in GW2 not seen much critique about it but my god TOR got instanced ships as home which is horrible. Or the animations in TOR is supposedly "clunky", well as far as I've seen GW2 is not much better, at least TOR can connect and block strikes.
The penalty when dying in TOR is just that, you lost, bit the bullet, start over. The droids take longer time each time you die and eventually you must revive at the cloning center or whatever it was called. I'm sure there will be some stats for PvP like times dead vs times won. We really don't need XP loss, item loss or whatever in addition even tough I would personally loved to loot one or more items from my opponent, I fully understand the choice in "penality" by BW.
My favorite part of the OP's post was the slipping in of the word 'entitlement' ... Me thinks someone heard the guys in the big boy pants say it on the news channels constantly (and incorrectly) and is now trying to slap it into a gaming genre, Neverminding the fact that people pay for the game and the online service and are, in fact, entitled to what they want out of it.
Actually, no they are not entitled to get what they want out of the game. They are able to play the game according to the rules established by the game and it's developers. They are no more entitled than ANY other person paying to play the game. They can make requests for changes and if their requests are denied or ignored they can choose to stop playing, but they are not even entitled to play since breaking the rules of the game gets them booted out of it.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
My question would be why have anyone die, knocked out, or defeated then at all? The idea / mechanic itself is to represent the consequences of failure. If there are no consequences, why even have the mechanism for failure?
Because a lot of people find it "unfair" to be "punished" for being shitty, reckless players.
'course... you can never reward them enough for being absolutely mediocre and doing the most absolutely basic things... If you could get half a level of xp for simply typing an emote correctly, there'd be people saying "Finally!!! A dev that understands how we deserve to be rewarded for typing /laugh successfully!".
I had near zero interest in this game before.... but still a "glimmer" of interest... 'cause you never know.
After this little nugget... It has officially hit zero.
..or maybe people don't play games to be punished but have fun? i don't know since when players started equating challenge to being punished. Challenge is in the activity itself.
My question would be why have anyone die, knocked out, or defeated then at all? The idea / mechanic itself is to represent the consequences of failure. If there are no consequences, why even have the mechanism for failure?
Because a lot of people find it "unfair" to be "punished" for being shitty, reckless players.
'course... you can never reward them enough for being absolutely mediocre and doing the most absolutely mundane things. If you could get half a level of xp for simply typing an emote correctly, there'd be people saying "Finally!!! A dev that understands how we deserve to be rewarded for typing /laugh successfully!".
Tell them there's a 3 minute "resurrection sickness" associated, and they're all "That isn't fun!!!! Why am I being punished for failing!!!" I've actually seen people say, and I quote, "This is 2011. Dying should be fun. Why dont' devevelopers understand this?" And they weren't joking. I don't think I've ever /facepalmed so hard.
I had near zero interest in this game before.... but still a "glimmer" of interest... 'cause you never know.
After this little nugget... It has officially hit zero.
Then why not make the penalty yourself as someone said earlier. If you think the developers penalty is so bad, why not apply your own? Just died, go break a piece of your armor or sell it off. Want your very own corpse run? Just don't use the probe, opt to go back to Med Bay, take off all your gear, and run naked back to the spot of your death.
I mean people toss around the words "hand holding" all the time. Yet there is nothing stopping them from imposing their own death penalty on themselves. Of course they won't do that, they would rather say it's the developers fault for not having a death penalty that they consider harsh enough.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
My question would be why have anyone die, knocked out, or defeated then at all? The idea / mechanic itself is to represent the consequences of failure. If there are no consequences, why even have the mechanism for failure?
Because a lot of people find it "unfair" to be "punished" for being shitty, reckless players.
'course... you can never reward them enough for being absolutely mediocre and doing the most absolutely mundane things. If you could get half a level of xp for simply typing an emote correctly, there'd be people saying "Finally!!! A dev that understands how we deserve to be rewarded for typing /laugh successfully!".
Tell them there's a 3 minute "resurrection sickness" associated, and they're all "That isn't fun!!!! Why am I being punished for failing!!!" I've actually seen people say, and I quote, "This is 2011. Dying should be fun. Why dont' devevelopers understand this?" And they weren't joking. I don't think I've ever /facepalmed so hard.
I had near zero interest in this game before.... but still a "glimmer" of interest... 'cause you never know.
After this little nugget... It has officially hit zero.
Then why not make the penalty yourself as someone said earlier. If you think the developers penalty is so bad, why not apply your own? Just died, go break a piece of your armor or sell it off. Want your very own corpse run? Just don't use the probe, opt to go back to Med Bay, take off all your gear, and run naked back to the spot of your death.
I mean people toss around the words "hand holding" all the time. Yet there is nothing stopping them from imposing their own death penalty on themselves. Of course they won't do that, they would rather say it's the developers fault for not having a death penalty that they consider harsh enough.
Very well said.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Comments
Not to mention that he completely ignores that each time you get killed it takes longer and longer before you can rez yourself again. I guess you could call it a "upwardly scaling" penalty on top of the cost to repair your armor. Of course if you don't mention that then the rant sounds so much more justified instead of just a rant.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Question for the guys promoting a more severe death penalty:
What is a good death penalty for you guys?
From the top of my head i would think this...
I'm solo questing. Not even inside a "cave" where I had to defead 152 creatures before reaching the rare mob inside it. No, no. Just on an open plain, filled with killer bunnies. One of them jumps and bites off my jugular vein = X_x
Now what you guys think is the propper way to punish me for my defeat?
I choose to go back to my respawn point, so now I have to walk aaaaaaaaaaall the way back to face that blood thirsty killer bunny.
I choose to rez right at the spot, but all my stats are penalyzed, my hp and mana are drained, my gear is damaged and I am no match for the killer bunny, who smelled my still warm blood, and inmediately turned around to finish what he started, and alas, I die again.
I choose to rez at my respawn point, but all my stats are penalyzed, my hp and mana are drained, my gear is damaged, so not being a match for a killer bunny, I have to spend an outrageous ammount of money with NPCs or other Players, who have secondary proffesions who can repair my gear and heal my wounds, before I got back for another round vs the killer bunny.
I choose to rez at my respawn point, but all my stats are penalyzed, my hp and mana are drained, my gear is damaged, so not being a match for a killer bunny, I have to spend a ridiculous ammount of time, say 1 hour, before the rez secondary effects go away. In the meantime, I go around the city and outskirts gathering / trading the raw materials I will need to repair my damaged gear.
Or something along those lines. Seriously. What is a propper death penalty in a moder age (i'm talking OUR TIME ~ 2011, not the game setting) mmorpg?
downtime for medical droid use start from 1min and go up to 10min
Yeah, we used to die, drop a shard and all our crap in a pile... respawn across 3 zones.... run back nekkid and dying over and over until (hopefully) we could finally get back to our crap pile and our spirit shard and reincarnate. Fun.
Oh, and lets not forget losing xp the whole time... some nights just logging in to lose a level and get so frustrated you wanted to throw the computer through the wall. Losing xp for other people in your group who died was even a finer idea. Once a gnome drowned in a sewer because he afk'd while zoning in and wasn't TALL enough to have his head above water and I lost xp.
I miss those days.... /sigh
Now, all you have to worry about is the social humiliation of playing like crap and dying... maybe getting raid kicked, then possibly guild kicked... and being publically humiliated in a global channel or getting black balled from other guilds because you're a craptastic player. Oh, you don't even have to DIE... you can just be 7th on a damage meter and suffer the same way... toon cybercide.
I'm all for devs having a long list of relatively difficult hoops for players to jump through so they feel they've really accomplished something when they finally finish but I believe any type of masochistic bullshat like painful, zone hopping shard chases while dead should be optional or left out. A game should be fun more than anything else... if you want to get spanked, I think you can pay for that somewhere else.
No bitchers.
so theres no penalty for dying.. big deal.. very few games these days have them.. and their not exactly all that popular.. taking a hit on equipment from dying is practically the standard format these days.. i think the only controversial factor is the 'instant rezz' they should at least only allow people to be rezzed after combat has ended..
Oh, dear God! I remember my first days in MMOs. FFXI to be specific. I remember working my life out to gather the money to get those spells in my black mage, and that incredibly expensive gear for X lvl. And how proud I felt when I did it. Then It happened...
As I walked out that city, someone was being chased by a mob, and once he got away, guess towards who the mob turned to? My black mage died. And I lost just enough XP to lose a level. So, now my powerfull blackmage was naked and without money to get out of the city, and of course, couldnt kill his way through a lower level zone to get that XP back. SO MUCH FUN!....
NOT!
First of all, what is your idea of a death penalty in a game?
If it consists of wasting time finding your body and then waiting for some rediculous penalty to go away or going out of your way to spend your money to get rid of it then I think it's taking away from your gaming experience.
I think having a penalty to armor durability and longer waiting times for the medical probe is just enough. But that's just my opinion.
While I'm all for death consequences ala EQ style, the corpse runs we have now in WOW are a waste of time and just annoying, so getting rid of them is not abad thing, i guess.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
Really? Even with no death penalty you die because you are not supposed to kill lvl100 boss as lvl10 char, and that's exactly what you could do if you did not die at all. That's why you have a mechanics for failure, for the failure it self, it's purpose is to prevent you from overperforming considering your level/gear/skill/etc and to tell you that you failed, it's the basic consequence before the added harshness. Now on top of that you can add res timers, equipment loss, a pouring rain of crap or character deletion etc etc but the basic purpose is a failure when you try to do something you are not capable of, or do not have tools for, get ambushed/whatever.
While I think the TOR failure is a bit too soft to say it lightly, it still does its core purpose.
To me it can be alot of diffrent things, mainly something that slap you on the hand for beeing foolish. Wows corpse run is a good example, not a hugh time waster but annoying enough for you not wanting to die. You should not be reward for dieing just becouse dieing alone can be annoying to some.
Aoc is a horrible example where death had no meaning so people used it as a fast travel, i stil playd it but that system was a joke.
Tor i would need to play to judge, if the worlds are to big it gets annoying with Corpse run
here is my 2 coppers:
I think death in game should be even more exciting.....when you die, you gear stays on your corpse until you get it back......to prevent people from looting you on the spot when you die you get a 5 minute timer to get back to your corpse or you are lootable to all other players.
THAT would motivate people not to die, but if you do it would also motivate to get to your corpse faster (less AFK'rs too
) because time is ticking.
i know its too HC for some people here but thats the only thing that can realy make ME "afraid" to die
can someone tell that guy on the youtube the "cynical brit" to say jimmy crack corn and i dont care lol. That guy should do voice overs on the game hehe
A game that implements this kind of Death Penalty would have one of two things happen:
1- It would quickly find itself bleeding players until only a very small group of niche players would stick around (in other words it would die).
2- The Devs would end up nerfing the system all together to stop the bleed of customers (and therefore money).
Either way SWTOR would fail if that system is implemented because after all the money that was spent to produce it, it needs the high number of purchases and subscribers to keep going, especially if they want to be able to afford to pay people to actually fix and expand the game.
Thankfully BioWare is not this shortsighted.
It might be an interesting feature to put on specific servers though just for those more Hardcore players that wish to use it.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
It does niggle at me a little.
Like in Guild Wars, the whole notion of "Dying is Okay" where it becomes a feature instead of looking to avoid it bothers me a little.
"The shit is about to hit the fan. EVERY ONE SUICIDE!"
I don't want a death penalty too harsh. But at least give some incentive not to die.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
if U die U can respawn first time almost instantly, than longer and longer... or respawn at Med Bay whole the way back to camp, so its waiting every time longer, or go whole the way trough respawn... no running back in ghost skipping all mobs as many times as U wish...
totally better than running as ghost 10 times in 5 minutes killing group of elites one by one (ala "vanilla WoW"), here if U made mistake U can easily respawn and skip the group altoghether, or change aproach, but after few times its few minutes... first mobs will respawn... its not "more casual", its "more logical"
Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind. Dr.Seuss
Well i aint read through the hole thread, jsut the first page...
Well this game has dropped down another notch for me.. I mean i knew it was gonna be a theme park game no issues with that as sometimes they can be fun for a bit... but really no real death as you just get ressed by some invisible droid thats with you ?
I was not gonna get this game to start with anyway because of the silly price tag, but im probally not gonna pick this up at all unless i see it in a bargain bin for £5 or somthing..
Sorry i hate all this recent dumbing down of RPG elements on so called RPG games, its not just this game but its happennig too much now
So what gets zapped on the ladies? Cause...I'd pay money for webcam vids of that!
Personally, I want games that reward me for overcoming obstacles, not games that punish me for failing. It's the whole positive reinforcement thing. A game does not have to have permadeath, full loot, and XP loss to be fun or challenging. We all remember how popular Darkfall was after all.
I've played the more hardcore version too, mind you. I remember deleveling in FFXI after weeks of grinding just because of one person's simple mistake. In my book, that is unecessary, and at best can only be called poor game design.
Before we get into "risk vs. reward," I'd also like to point a few things out about the OP's stamements here. He's left quite a bit out. I'm sure it was unintentional, and just general misinformation, but it's important none the less. Instanced group play does not get the option to resurrect via medical probe droid. You go back to the cloning facility. The planets are LARGE and a trip back to the cloning facility was quite the walk back out when doing simple quests, so the devs thought that a system like this woule get players back to the game instead of filling all of your time with unecessary travel. Also important to note is that the cool down on this ability quickly scales upwards. One cannot just kill, die, kill, die ad nauseum until you get it right.
All of the above information was taken directly from the SWTOR website. I won't look up specific quotes for you as the coffee is still brewing and it's early, but it's all there in the dev tracker for all that wish to sift through it. I approve of this death system. AT least it isn't a ghost corpse run.
Personally I am happy with the system they have as it is set up right now and I will not make a final decision until I see it in the game and get a chance to actually experience it.
If I personally could ADD one thing though it would be a system similar to what City Of Heroes does. Every time you die you earn a certain amount of XP Debt, based upon your level, up to a specific max amount. That debt gets paid off through normal xp earnings, but half of all the future xp goes to paying off the debt until done and then you earn xp normally. This way you did not lose anything, but it was still inconviencing to you.
I think having a gear degradation and xp debt would be enough to satisfy some of the more hardcore players while still not overly punishing people for making a mistake.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
My favorite part of the OP's post was the slipping in of the word 'entitlement' ... Me thinks someone heard the guys in the big boy pants say it on the news channels constantly (and incorrectly) and is now trying to slap it into a gaming genre, Neverminding the fact that people pay for the game and the online service and are, in fact, entitled to what they want out of it.
Because a lot of people find it "unfair" to be "punished" for being shitty, reckless players.
'course... you can never reward them enough for being absolutely mediocre and doing the most absolutely mundane things. If you could get half a level of xp for simply typing an emote correctly, there'd be people saying "Finally!!! A dev that understands how we deserve to be rewarded for typing /laugh successfully!".
Tell them there's a 3 minute "resurrection sickness" associated, and they're all "That isn't fun!!!! Why am I being punished for failing!!!" I've actually seen people say, and I quote, "This is 2011. Dying should be fun. Why dont' devevelopers understand this?" And they weren't joking. I don't think I've ever /facepalmed so hard.
I had near zero interest in this game before.... but still a "glimmer" of interest... 'cause you never know.
After this little nugget... It has officially hit zero.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Actually, no they are not entitled to get what they want out of the game. They are able to play the game according to the rules established by the game and it's developers. They are no more entitled than ANY other person paying to play the game. They can make requests for changes and if their requests are denied or ignored they can choose to stop playing, but they are not even entitled to play since breaking the rules of the game gets them booted out of it.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
..or maybe people don't play games to be punished but have fun? i don't know since when players started equating challenge to being punished. Challenge is in the activity itself.
Then why not make the penalty yourself as someone said earlier. If you think the developers penalty is so bad, why not apply your own? Just died, go break a piece of your armor or sell it off. Want your very own corpse run? Just don't use the probe, opt to go back to Med Bay, take off all your gear, and run naked back to the spot of your death.
I mean people toss around the words "hand holding" all the time. Yet there is nothing stopping them from imposing their own death penalty on themselves. Of course they won't do that, they would rather say it's the developers fault for not having a death penalty that they consider harsh enough.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Very well said.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"