I guess I can't really comment on it until I experience it's implementation first hand.
I'm tempted to say that it's lame, that you should at LEAST have to respawn back at the cloning point. But Bioware may surprise me and pull this off in a way that doesn't take the thrill and challenge completely out of the game.
thats how it used to be but they changed it due to tester feedback
And the response from Georg is ridiculous as well. You took away corpse runs because beat testers didn't like it? Of course the beta testers didn't like corpse running... nobody does. That's why it's called a PENALTY for death.
Honestly, they may as well rename this game Carebears in Space if they plan on caving to every players request.
No. I'm a bit amazed (just kidding, this is the internet) that you think we would operate like that. But yes - if 95% of testers tell you that you have a problem, you listen. You don't shut your ears and sing to yourself 'they're carebears, they hate any penalty'.
We added this option because the impact of the 'walk back from medcenter' penalty, in our game, is huge - worse than in comparable MMOs. Here's why:
The distances in a world that is built to scale, on planets like Tatooine, are vast.
A lot of the content is not instanced and is open world and you don't enjoy fighting your way back deep into the objective areas when you die. We're not talking about 1-3 minutes of walking. In some cases, we're talking about 10-15 minutes of repeating content. That's not fun.
As Daniel explained, we're not shy of making challenging content that is interesting to overcome.
But content does not get more challenging by giving it a harsh, repetitive death penalty - penalties just happen after the fact and do not, in any way or form, make the content more challenging, fun or even difficult.
The only challenge a really harsh death penalty adds is to player's patience or tolerance to repeating the same content over and over. Most people don't find that fun, and we don't either.
By adding this system, we are able to create content that kills the player once or twice until they figure out how to overcome it. We can create challenges and players are given a chance to overcome them. They can afford to fail, regroup and try again instead of spending 15 minutes sitting around while some player tries to make his way back to the group.
If you are looking for hardcore and punishing death penalties that weed out the weak players (e.g. the ones that don't have infinite patience and time), The Old Republic will not be your game. That does not mean we're attempting to make an extremely easy game with no challenge.
I mean thats the way most themeparks are, there really isnt a penalty for dieing, that kind of mechanic is dead and gone. even in RIFT you can res on the spot every 30mins
Its... a video game. What do you want the death penalty to be? When video games came out, death meant you inserted 25 cents to continue. Its a game. Its entertainment. Is there an mmo out there thats handing death penalties the way you prefer?
Boy I spent a lot of quarters in those days. Drank a lot of beer as well.
Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~Ernest Gaines
Its... a video game. What do you want the death penalty to be? When video games came out, death meant you inserted 25 cents to continue. Its a game. Its entertainment. Is there an mmo out there thats handing death penalties the way you prefer?
Boy I spent a lot of quarters in those days. Drank a lot of beer as well.
I finished Side Arms arcade, that was hardcore!
I don't remember if you could continue with coins, i think not, cause I remember the suffering.
A lack of death penalty does not make the game any harder. At best it makes it take longer. If you die against an encounter, the encounter resets. So how does a lack of a death penalty make that encounter the slightest bit easier? At most it means you can try again sooner, that's all.
Let's stop with all the hyperbole about how lack of a harsh death penalty = easy, because it does not in any way at all.
It's not "lack of death penalty = easy" exactly. I would say the equation is "lack of death penalty = trivial content".
If there is no death penalty, you can go everywhere, everything looks more or less the same and all is bland and unimportant. On the other hand, with harsh death penalty, you look at a dungeons entrance and feel a knot in your guts and you develop a respect for the environment and the enemies, which gives the whole MMO a bigger significance.
As others have stated, if you want harsh penalties, impose them on yourself. Or mayhe go play a game that does have harsher penalties like EVE or Darkfall. Then again I suspect the ones crying so much about this never intended to play in the first place.
As others have stated, if you want harsh penalties, impose them on yourself. Or mayhe go play a game that does have harsher penalties like EVE or Darkfall. Then again I suspect the ones crying so much about this never intended to play in the first place.
Originally posted by Metentso Originally posted by SwampRob A lack of death penalty does not make the game any harder. At best it makes it take longer. If you die against an encounter, the encounter resets. So how does a lack of a death penalty make that encounter the slightest bit easier? At most it means you can try again sooner, that's all. Let's stop with all the hyperbole about how lack of a harsh death penalty = easy, because it does not in any way at all.
It's not "lack of death penalty = easy" exactly. I would say the equation is "lack of death penalty = trivial content". If there is no death penalty, you can go everywhere, everything looks more or less the same and all is bland and unimportant. On the other hand, with harsh death penalty, you look at a dungeons entrance and feel a knot in your guts and you develop a respect for the environment and the enemies, which gives the whole MMO a bigger significance.
It doesn't matter how harsh the death penalty is, you're still just playing a game. It's Bioware's game, and they've obviously gone with idea of appealing to a mass audience. If you want harsh death penalties, or any of a number of 'hardcore' features, you're going to have to go with a smaller game studio. The larger the studio, the larger the game, the less likely you are to see any sort of 'hardcore' features in an MMORPG. They will never show up in SW:ToR. But by all means, keep beating the dead horse, it's not like it can feel it anyway.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
A lack of death penalty does not make the game any harder. At best it makes it take longer. If you die against an encounter, the encounter resets. So how does a lack of a death penalty make that encounter the slightest bit easier? At most it means you can try again sooner, that's all.
Let's stop with all the hyperbole about how lack of a harsh death penalty = easy, because it does not in any way at all.
It's not "lack of death penalty = easy" exactly. I would say the equation is "lack of death penalty = trivial content".
If there is no death penalty, you can go everywhere, everything looks more or less the same and all is bland and unimportant. On the other hand, with harsh death penalty, you look at a dungeons entrance and feel a knot in your guts and you develop a respect for the environment and the enemies, which gives the whole MMO a bigger significance.
Maybe you need that, I do not. You can always make your punishment harsher, why force everyone to have that? When I play a single-player game, if I die, I simply reload at my last save point and try again. That said, I hate dying. I mean, I absolutely freaking wanna chuck my monitor through a window hate it. I don't need harsher penalty to make me want to avoid it.
It's not "lack of death penalty = easy" exactly. I would say the equation is "lack of death penalty = trivial content".
If there is no death penalty, you can go everywhere, everything looks more or less the same and all is bland and unimportant. On the other hand, with harsh death penalty, you look at a dungeons entrance and feel a knot in your guts and you develop a respect for the environment and the enemies, which gives the whole MMO a bigger significance.
Maybe you need that, I do not. You can always make your punishment harsher, why force everyone to have that? When I play a single-player game, if I die, I simply reload at my last save point and try again. That said, I hate dying. I mean, I absolutely freaking wanna chuck my monitor through a window hate it. I don't need harsher penalty to make me want to avoid it.
Ditto. I don't like dying either so I don't need an "incentive" to stay alive. I like trying to improve my characters skills on my own and so do a lot of people who play these games. All those idiots who die over and over again get weeded out anyway the first time they do a raid or the first time they PVP and can't hang. Good players who leveled the right way know their class inside out and mop the floor with those guys at endgame. Any type of group related content is going to be hard for the slackers so they either try and get better or drop out of the game.
In the meantime, what business is it of anyone else how these people choose to play their game?
My question would be why have anyone die, knocked out, or defeated then at all? The idea / mechanic itself is to represent the consequences of failure. If there are no consequences, why even have the mechanism for failure?
Problem is that no real mmo these days has any real death penalty. So your question would be towards every MMo and not just TOR, and to that question death itself and failing an encounter is penalty enough is it not? I mean you can impose your own penalty (Die in game and just log off for the day, that seems pretty harsh amirite?) That just scream that it would make it so much more fun for you.
Originally posted by Kabaal Originally posted by ukforze No death penalty? Bioware is living in a dream world if they think this is a good idea, wtf are they thinking!? they must really underestimate our inteligence to think we actually want a game with no death penalty, it makes the game totally pointless imo
You say that as if the death penalties in the majority of games actualy are deterrants. Almost all of the games i've played the penalty has been so insignificant they would have been as well just not having one. I like this post and it's true. FFXI was the only game that made me actually "scared" to die because of the death penalty.
I credit that game with making me a better player more in-tune with my guildies and party mates, and actually giving a damn when I or they died because of the harshness.
Too many times you'd almost genuflect when a party member died because you knew personally just how heavy that fine was.
Bioware is living in a dream world if they think this is a good idea, wtf are they thinking!?
they must really underestimate our inteligence to think we actually want a game with no
death penalty, it makes the game totally pointless imo
You say that as if the death penalties in the majority of games actualy are deterrants. Almost all of the games i've played the penalty has been so insignificant they would have been as well just not having one.
I like this post and it's true. FFXI was the only game that made me actually "scared" to die because of the death penalty.
I credit that game with making me a better player more in-tune with my guildies and party mates, and actually giving a damn when I or they died because of the harshness.
Too many times you'd almost genuflect when a party member died because you knew personally just how heavy that fine was.
Same with Everquest 1 for me. You actually had randoms who became guilds, RL friends (even today) and what not just because of great mechanics were people helped each other. /ooc champ check or /ooc traaaaaain to zone incoming! anyone? oh the good memories
As a necromancer I often felt sorry when another player died cause my fear has been resisted and so we all became better players.
[mod edit: no personal attacks please]
Had such high hopes for this game but this game will have a wowlike community, walk in the park gameplay and therefore people wont become better and just cry fro nerfs. Really thought Bioware would stick to a more dedicated crowd.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Why, DerWotan, would they stick to "a more decicated" crowd? This is a business trying to sell it's product to the highest number of people it possibly can. The "dedicated" crowd you are refering to is NOT a huge crowd at all, so why cater to them?
Btw, I was really with you in the beginning of your argument until you started attacking people for not feeling the same way you do.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
More dedicated is the longterm better crowd. This hasnt anything to do with hardcore or casual its just how you play. If you stick to the me now / instant gratification / I dont have time (then don't play?!) / give me wellfare epic crowd without any consequences a wowlike or maybe worse community is bound to happen.
Mods Zoeller attacked those looking for consequences not the other way round. If ToR doesnt do well longterm this guy will easily be the new Barnett.
whats the point of sticking to a crowd, that doesnt know how to play isnt interested in anything but wellfare epics and doesnt want to become better nor work with other players?
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
It's not "lack of death penalty = easy" exactly. I would say the equation is "lack of death penalty = trivial content".
If there is no death penalty, you can go everywhere, everything looks more or less the same and all is bland and unimportant. On the other hand, with harsh death penalty, you look at a dungeons entrance and feel a knot in your guts and you develop a respect for the environment and the enemies, which gives the whole MMO a bigger significance.
Maybe you need that, I do not. You can always make your punishment harsher, why force everyone to have that? When I play a single-player game, if I die, I simply reload at my last save point and try again. That said, I hate dying. I mean, I absolutely freaking wanna chuck my monitor through a window hate it. I don't need harsher penalty to make me want to avoid it.
Ditto. I don't like dying either so I don't need an "incentive" to stay alive. I like trying to improve my characters skills on my own and so do a lot of people who play these games. All those idiots who die over and over again get weeded out anyway the first time they do a raid or the first time they PVP and can't hang. Good players who leveled the right way know their class inside out and mop the floor with those guys at endgame. Any type of group related content is going to be hard for the slackers so they either try and get better or drop out of the game.
In the meantime, what business is it of anyone else how these people choose to play their game?
What you don't see is that a death penalty builds a strong community, because everyone needs everyone to survive. Every guild, needs another guild to survive. This is something that is unknown to MMO players now.
@OP, I'm sure somewhere among the 4+ pages of hate/love comments someone has already mentioned this, but I just felt like putting in my 2 cents to cover the base.
The "droid" (or whatever they're calling it) is on a cool-down. If you don't use it, you resurrect at a graveyard of sorts. I'm sure the gear damage will be similar to other MMORPGs where you just pay the repair bill. He did make the remark about 2 manning a heroic Flashpoint doing this bounding of sorts. It's no different than "cheating" the game mechanics in other (i.e. doing "stealth" runs in dungeons a-la WoW).
As with anything else, you have to take the good with the bad.
I thought i heard that the medical bot is on a cool down of like 30minutes or something, so cannot be spammed used?
I could be wrong...............
Not quite. The first time you use it, the timer is at around 2 minutes. If you use it a second time within a short period, that gets extended to around 10 minutes, then 30, then 60, that sort of thing. Numbers approx.
Originally posted by Metentso Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by SwampRob
Originally posted by Metentso
It's not "lack of death penalty = easy" exactly. I would say the equation is "lack of death penalty = trivial content". If there is no death penalty, you can go everywhere, everything looks more or less the same and all is bland and unimportant. On the other hand, with harsh death penalty, you look at a dungeons entrance and feel a knot in your guts and you develop a respect for the environment and the enemies, which gives the whole MMO a bigger significance. Maybe you need that, I do not. You can always make your punishment harsher, why force everyone to have that? When I play a single-player game, if I die, I simply reload at my last save point and try again. That said, I hate dying. I mean, I absolutely freaking wanna chuck my monitor through a window hate it. I don't need harsher penalty to make me want to avoid it. Ditto. I don't like dying either so I don't need an "incentive" to stay alive. I like trying to improve my characters skills on my own and so do a lot of people who play these games. All those idiots who die over and over again get weeded out anyway the first time they do a raid or the first time they PVP and can't hang. Good players who leveled the right way know their class inside out and mop the floor with those guys at endgame. Any type of group related content is going to be hard for the slackers so they either try and get better or drop out of the game. In the meantime, what business is it of anyone else how these people choose to play their game?
What you don't see is that a death penalty builds a strong community, because everyone needs everyone to survive. Every guild, needs another guild to survive. This is something that is unknown to MMO players now.
It doesn't build a strong community. The players, regardless of the mechanics involved in the game build a strong community.
Adding a death penalty does not magically make everything better.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
@OP, I'm sure somewhere among the 4+ pages of hate/love comments someone has already mentioned this, but I just felt like putting in my 2 cents to cover the base.
The "droid" (or whatever they're calling it) is on a cool-down. If you don't use it, you resurrect at a graveyard of sorts. I'm sure the gear damage will be similar to other MMORPGs where you just pay the repair bill. He did make the remark about 2 manning a heroic Flashpoint doing this bounding of sorts. It's no different than "cheating" the game mechanics in other (i.e. doing "stealth" runs in dungeons a-la WoW).
As with anything else, you have to take the good with the bad.
actually it cant be used in instances. its like you were saying, he was using an exploit
Amazing how all the insta-rez proponents fail to recognize how the top writer for the game is talking on the film about using 2 people to take on a 4 person instance. Running around dieing (over and over) and kiting MOB's to basically cheat his way through it.
.
Hehe, Daniel will be disappointed when those holes he's exploiting are gradually shut down. As mentioned, we just added this system in testing, so there some rough edges.
That said, we're also not terribly concerned with people being creative about some of the heroic content. We're pretty pragmatic about it - if people have fun doing a one off heroic quest in a very creative way (like, let's say luring a bunch of enemies to a cliff and then pushing them over with a force push) and they're having fun, that's something we're potentially fine with. In fact, we find that a lot of the 'creative' ways people find around more challenging content seems to take more time than doing it the planned way anyway.
As long as there's a reasonable effort vs. reward ratio here, who am I to say that you and your friend can't have fun figuring out a way to get past that 4 man heroic?
This obviously doesn't apply to Operations or Flashpoints (Did I mention that you can't order a probe in instanced content like a Flashpoint or Warzone?), but for world heroics, we're definitely taking a relaxed view on these things.
Comments
Thank you testers.
I mean thats the way most themeparks are, there really isnt a penalty for dieing, that kind of mechanic is dead and gone. even in RIFT you can res on the spot every 30mins
Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~Ernest Gaines
I finished Side Arms arcade, that was hardcore!
I don't remember if you could continue with coins, i think not, cause I remember the suffering.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
It's not "lack of death penalty = easy" exactly. I would say the equation is "lack of death penalty = trivial content".
If there is no death penalty, you can go everywhere, everything looks more or less the same and all is bland and unimportant. On the other hand, with harsh death penalty, you look at a dungeons entrance and feel a knot in your guts and you develop a respect for the environment and the enemies, which gives the whole MMO a bigger significance.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJGjDoxoNM8
This is a death penalty for people who want harsh penalties.
It's not "lack of death penalty = easy" exactly. I would say the equation is "lack of death penalty = trivial content".
If there is no death penalty, you can go everywhere, everything looks more or less the same and all is bland and unimportant. On the other hand, with harsh death penalty, you look at a dungeons entrance and feel a knot in your guts and you develop a respect for the environment and the enemies, which gives the whole MMO a bigger significance.
It doesn't matter how harsh the death penalty is, you're still just playing a game. It's Bioware's game, and they've obviously gone with idea of appealing to a mass audience. If you want harsh death penalties, or any of a number of 'hardcore' features, you're going to have to go with a smaller game studio. The larger the studio, the larger the game, the less likely you are to see any sort of 'hardcore' features in an MMORPG. They will never show up in SW:ToR. But by all means, keep beating the dead horse, it's not like it can feel it anyway.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I don't see what is wrong with this.
All it means is that you get back to the fight sooner.
Maybe you need that, I do not. You can always make your punishment harsher, why force everyone to have that? When I play a single-player game, if I die, I simply reload at my last save point and try again. That said, I hate dying. I mean, I absolutely freaking wanna chuck my monitor through a window hate it. I don't need harsher penalty to make me want to avoid it.
Ditto. I don't like dying either so I don't need an "incentive" to stay alive. I like trying to improve my characters skills on my own and so do a lot of people who play these games. All those idiots who die over and over again get weeded out anyway the first time they do a raid or the first time they PVP and can't hang. Good players who leveled the right way know their class inside out and mop the floor with those guys at endgame. Any type of group related content is going to be hard for the slackers so they either try and get better or drop out of the game.
In the meantime, what business is it of anyone else how these people choose to play their game?
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Problem is that no real mmo these days has any real death penalty. So your question would be towards every MMo and not just TOR, and to that question death itself and failing an encounter is penalty enough is it not? I mean you can impose your own penalty (Die in game and just log off for the day, that seems pretty harsh amirite?) That just scream that it would make it so much more fun for you.
I like this post and it's true. FFXI was the only game that made me actually "scared" to die because of the death penalty.
I credit that game with making me a better player more in-tune with my guildies and party mates, and actually giving a damn when I or they died because of the harshness.
Too many times you'd almost genuflect when a party member died because you knew personally just how heavy that fine was.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Same with Everquest 1 for me. You actually had randoms who became guilds, RL friends (even today) and what not just because of great mechanics were people helped each other. /ooc champ check or /ooc traaaaaain to zone incoming! anyone? oh the good memories
As a necromancer I often felt sorry when another player died cause my fear has been resisted and so we all became better players.
[mod edit: no personal attacks please]
Had such high hopes for this game but this game will have a wowlike community, walk in the park gameplay and therefore people wont become better and just cry fro nerfs. Really thought Bioware would stick to a more dedicated crowd.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Why, DerWotan, would they stick to "a more decicated" crowd? This is a business trying to sell it's product to the highest number of people it possibly can. The "dedicated" crowd you are refering to is NOT a huge crowd at all, so why cater to them?
Btw, I was really with you in the beginning of your argument until you started attacking people for not feeling the same way you do.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
More dedicated is the longterm better crowd. This hasnt anything to do with hardcore or casual its just how you play. If you stick to the me now / instant gratification / I dont have time (then don't play?!) / give me wellfare epic crowd without any consequences a wowlike or maybe worse community is bound to happen.
Mods Zoeller attacked those looking for consequences not the other way round. If ToR doesnt do well longterm this guy will easily be the new Barnett.
whats the point of sticking to a crowd, that doesnt know how to play isnt interested in anything but wellfare epics and doesnt want to become better nor work with other players?
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I thought i heard that the medical bot is on a cool down of like 30minutes or something, so cannot be spammed used?
I could be wrong...............
I am so disappointed with lack of Death penalty
it makes open world pvp completely meaningless, since there's no consquences of death.
it's a sad trent that most mainstream MMO is scare of adding proper death penalty, from WoW to Rift.
not asking for Shadowbane or Everquest or Lineage like DP, but come on make the gameplay mean something, fear of death is exciting
Making harsh death penalties is asking for your game to remain a tiny niche game.
They didn't spend over 100 million to have 1 or 2 servers with a population of 10k.
There is always Darkfall 2.0.
What you don't see is that a death penalty builds a strong community, because everyone needs everyone to survive. Every guild, needs another guild to survive. This is something that is unknown to MMO players now.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
@OP, I'm sure somewhere among the 4+ pages of hate/love comments someone has already mentioned this, but I just felt like putting in my 2 cents to cover the base.
The "droid" (or whatever they're calling it) is on a cool-down. If you don't use it, you resurrect at a graveyard of sorts. I'm sure the gear damage will be similar to other MMORPGs where you just pay the repair bill. He did make the remark about 2 manning a heroic Flashpoint doing this bounding of sorts. It's no different than "cheating" the game mechanics in other (i.e. doing "stealth" runs in dungeons a-la WoW).
As with anything else, you have to take the good with the bad.
Not quite. The first time you use it, the timer is at around 2 minutes. If you use it a second time within a short period, that gets extended to around 10 minutes, then 30, then 60, that sort of thing. Numbers approx.
It's not "lack of death penalty = easy" exactly. I would say the equation is "lack of death penalty = trivial content".
If there is no death penalty, you can go everywhere, everything looks more or less the same and all is bland and unimportant. On the other hand, with harsh death penalty, you look at a dungeons entrance and feel a knot in your guts and you develop a respect for the environment and the enemies, which gives the whole MMO a bigger significance.
Maybe you need that, I do not. You can always make your punishment harsher, why force everyone to have that? When I play a single-player game, if I die, I simply reload at my last save point and try again. That said, I hate dying. I mean, I absolutely freaking wanna chuck my monitor through a window hate it. I don't need harsher penalty to make me want to avoid it.
Ditto. I don't like dying either so I don't need an "incentive" to stay alive. I like trying to improve my characters skills on my own and so do a lot of people who play these games. All those idiots who die over and over again get weeded out anyway the first time they do a raid or the first time they PVP and can't hang. Good players who leveled the right way know their class inside out and mop the floor with those guys at endgame. Any type of group related content is going to be hard for the slackers so they either try and get better or drop out of the game.
In the meantime, what business is it of anyone else how these people choose to play their game?
What you don't see is that a death penalty builds a strong community, because everyone needs everyone to survive. Every guild, needs another guild to survive. This is something that is unknown to MMO players now.
It doesn't build a strong community. The players, regardless of the mechanics involved in the game build a strong community.
Adding a death penalty does not magically make everything better.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
actually it cant be used in instances. its like you were saying, he was using an exploit
GeorgZoeller
Joined: May 2010
06.08.2011 , 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManuDragonne
Amazing how all the insta-rez proponents fail to recognize how the top writer for the game is talking on the film about using 2 people to take on a 4 person instance. Running around dieing (over and over) and kiting MOB's to basically cheat his way through it.
.
Hehe, Daniel will be disappointed when those holes he's exploiting are gradually shut down. As mentioned, we just added this system in testing, so there some rough edges.
That said, we're also not terribly concerned with people being creative about some of the heroic content. We're pretty pragmatic about it - if people have fun doing a one off heroic quest in a very creative way (like, let's say luring a bunch of enemies to a cliff and then pushing them over with a force push) and they're having fun, that's something we're potentially fine with. In fact, we find that a lot of the 'creative' ways people find around more challenging content seems to take more time than doing it the planned way anyway.
As long as there's a reasonable effort vs. reward ratio here, who am I to say that you and your friend can't have fun figuring out a way to get past that 4 man heroic?
This obviously doesn't apply to Operations or Flashpoints (Did I mention that you can't order a probe in instanced content like a Flashpoint or Warzone?), but for world heroics, we're definitely taking a relaxed view on these things.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6674340#post6674340
Death is simply part of the journey...