Originally posted by Macbrea WoD is a setting that requires the players put up semi-interesting self-plotlines. This won't be a game for alot of people. They have posted that it will have the elements that will result in turning alot of people off. IE. Your actions have consquences, like final death (Permadeath). It really comes down to what people find intersting and how much of a grind it is to get established characters. With the online world of griefers and general pain in the rear people that exist out there and a possibilty of permadeath. People will need ot be careful.
World of Darkness: Vampire the Masquerade is meant to be a dark place with the possibility of character lose. If the game just turns out to be a WoW clone then it will turn off the fan base. if it turns out to be too difficult to stay alive. That will also turn off the fan base. Vampires are suppose to be able to fight and even fall into torpor if too much damage is taken. But, in the end it should take a conscious decision to actually destroy another players character. Unless of course that torpor happens in a burning building.
The advancement in the system should be similar to Trioka's bloodlines. You should gain experience that you spend across your character as you want. The problem I see occuring is they will want to use the Requiem system of blood potency instead of the generation system of Vampire the Masquerade. Otherwise the only way to do this game would be a completely random generation or start everyone as a ghoul/mortal and only have them embraced by player characters or GM characters. Which, could lead to an ERP game that might not be very appropriate for very many people. This brings the problem if the game has to be adult only. It a game based around seduction and dark themes. That just won't be very appropriate for a child. I couldn't possibly see this reaching the counter without that high a rating.
This is all guesswork in regards to CCP's version of WoD. Unless you work at CCP (in which case, I'd guess you know then, huh?) Nobody really knows what CCP is going to do with the game. The mentioned the word 'permadeath'. They didn't say it was going to be in the game. They've mentioned very little actually.
I think though, they are not as concerned with getting a million subs as other game companies. A more hardcore game is definitely possible. As long as it doesn't turn into IMVU or Twilight Online I'll probably be there on day one.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
WoD is a setting that requires the players put up semi-interesting self-plotlines. This won't be a game for alot of people. They have posted that it will have the elements that will result in turning alot of people off. IE. Your actions have consquences, like final death (Permadeath). It really comes down to what people find intersting and how much of a grind it is to get established characters. With the online world of griefers and general pain in the rear people that exist out there and a possibilty of permadeath. People will need ot be careful.
World of Darkness: Vampire the Masquerade is meant to be a dark place with the possibility of character lose. If the game just turns out to be a WoW clone then it will turn off the fan base. if it turns out to be too difficult to stay alive. That will also turn off the fan base. Vampires are suppose to be able to fight and even fall into torpor if too much damage is taken. But, in the end it should take a conscious decision to actually destroy another players character. Unless of course that torpor happens in a burning building.
The advancement in the system should be similar to Trioka's bloodlines. You should gain experience that you spend across your character as you want. The problem I see occuring is they will want to use the Requiem system of blood potency instead of the generation system of Vampire the Masquerade. Otherwise the only way to do this game would be a completely random generation or start everyone as a ghoul/mortal and only have them embraced by player characters or GM characters. Which, could lead to an ERP game that might not be very appropriate for very many people.
This brings the problem if the game has to be adult only. It a game based around seduction and dark themes. That just won't be very appropriate for a child. I couldn't possibly see this reaching the counter without that high a rating.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Permadeath? I just read about this and the last I heard, the concept was something floated by a random fan, but never seriously acknowledged. Is there a link to the confirmation for this? If so, I'd like to know quickly so I can cross the game off my list.
If they keep adding "elements" like this, the game will be lucky to even have a niche market left over.
Well, their working on this in an odd fashion. I am guessing noone at CCP iceland can really tell you what the game will be. As they are building the engine to the game. The rules and storylines are being developed in Atlanta at the White wofl location. This means between the two they don't really have a good idea how is going to work in the end fully. Justin Achilli gave an outline of how the game is being designed but everyone knows a general outline given at a point that is 1-2 years from game completion is pointless. It's kind of like a 30,000 foot outline. IE, these are the points we would like to hit, lets throw darts and hope we get close.
White Wolf produced a very good table top game in Vampire the Masquerade. They ran through a huge number of book on the various different subjects of it. When CCP took over White wolf they needed to make money. They produced Vampire: Requiem and all the various books that went with that. Those books boosted company money from the low point it had reached because they had exhausted the sales on the old world of darkness. They didn't exhaust their fan base on old world of darkness. Requiem changed up the politics of the system but players still tried to play it with somewhat of an old world feeling.
You will notice that at the 20 year mark White Wolf publishing is putting out the Vampire the Masquerade books. That is because at this point getting those books has become difficult to find and CCP has released it's grip on the company somewhat. The developers of those two worlds like them both. They have alot invested into them. I know this I live very close to Atlanta. Each has their place, but if you were to ask most vampire players they would chose old world over new world of darkness. This is because oWoD is what got them into the genere in the first place. It is what they expect to see.
CCP is designing the game engine for this. They aren't designing the world. That was designed by a pen and paper roleplaying company long ago. Even Trioka when the published Bloodlines kept with the cannon of the world.
- The game has been in development since 2006. According to CCP Producer Chris it continues to remain in pre-production status as of Aug 2011.
- This has been slowed by keeping up with EVE and developing Incarna.
- Preparing to develop 'carbon technology' aka Incarna framework for what should provide state-of-the-art character customizations, unlike any seen in any game before, for the mmo.
- They are particularly psyched about the customization framework. they claim they have in fact, hired a fashion consultant, to help make the system more realistic and stylish.
- Another 1.5 years has been spent preparing the actual gameplay
- They have increased their staff by 6 times the previous head count
- They've put 629k man-hours into this MMO as of Sept 2010 -- so far.
- In a 2009 public financial project outlook CCP document the following 2 quotes were taken from it as they directly relate to the WoD project:
"Given the World of Darkness legacy, its large fan base, and proven appeal to both genders, we estimate the subscriber potential of this product to be two to three times that of EVE Online, without competing head on with CCP's existing products thus enabling wider total appeal."
"This engine will manage the full-body representation of humans, creatures, and other non-player-characters (NPC) for both indoor and outdoor game environment settings. Ambulation includes R&D in Artificial Intelligence, Animation Systems, Advanced Character Rendering Technology, Crowd Simulation, Navigation, and Pathfinding for agents in indoor environments. Ambulation will be used to deliver the new EVE Online feature “Walking in Stations”, and will be the technology foundation for the World of Darkness character system."
Regarding coffee house, sandbox and theme parks style of play that we've discussed on the forum, burgermeister writes; "from what they said, these three spheres should be closely tied and interconnected together, essentially running the economy of blood in the game. "
The four overall themes they intended to have in the game are:
- Mystery
- Romance
- Power
- Danger
"For concrete facts, we learned that the game will be ready, by earliest, 2012. the game will be based on vampire: the masquerade. specifically, in the initial release of the game, there will only be vampires as supernatural, playable characters. There will however, be elements from werewolf, changeling, etc., likely in the form of environmental content, and npcs."
-One of their criteria for success is to make the game as accessible as possible. specifically they want to get women involved in the game, as well as casual players. also, they want to maximize the amount of human interaction that happens in the game.
-They confirmed that the game will not be combat intensive (unless you choose as such). Knowing, influencing the correct people is arguable more important than being the biggest brawler.
-They will not be catering to immaturity in the game, however, they would like to see these types of offenses policed by players, rather than in-game mechanics.
"I personally offered up one of the board's suggestions of permanent death as a solution to controlling an otherwise glut of kindred population within any one area. This was one of the suggestions that got applause from the audience. i also couldn't help but notice two of the content developers smirking -- I think permanent death is a serious possibility in the mmo. a lot of other fans made the same or similar suggestions. this remark also drew out a comment from the panel, suggesting that the game world would consist of one server rather than multiple servers, after someone else suggested that some servers offer this permanent death option while others did not. (his response "servers? what servers?") "
-They confirmed that factions and territories will almost certainly be a big part of the game.
-They confirmed that the game will definitely contains gay clubs. This is an excellent angle to cater to the gay and lesbian audience.
-They again, did confirm, that starting off there would only be vampires, but one of the other developers also confirmed that there would be playable human classes -- although nothing specific. I only can assume he means the likes of ghouls and hunters.
-The game will be fully PvP, i.e. There may be elysium areas, but nothing like the flagging system, as seen in PvE wow servers.
-In regards to the development cycles, some disciplines simply will not be included because they are way too complicate to implement well -- specifically, temporis.
The following are notes of the topics, confirmations of what a attendee took who listened to Justin Achilli on a panel at the 2010 Grand Masquerade;
* Not a lot of quests. Org versus org. Player-driven faction content and conflict.
* Not a WOW clone. Repetitive quests are boring and unfulfilling.
* Concerns over how mental or social influence powers are handled. How to do this well and meaningfully? Players uncomfortable with a loss of control over avatar.
* Players want to control other characters, however.
* Territory control. An adult-only play space. Roleplayers want a space where the integrity of the setting colors the conversation. Don't want to suffer through Chuck Norris jokes and other immersion-breaking chatter.
* Content that reinforces themes that are the cornerstones of the WoD. "Shivers up the spine."
* An exploration of who a new character is, so that he's not just dropped tabula rasa into the world. Random backgrounds, connections to the world, hooks into world participation.
* Powers that cleave closely to the powers that exist in the game, but also expand into new directions for appropriate Disciplines. Making them work in tandem with the system, so that they make sense in the world.
* Finite numbers of the supernatural critter types.
* Permadeath. Server type preference?
* Allow social powers to be socially versatile. A character can be successful socially; not all advancement is tied to combat or traditional "leveling."
* Factional control of regions or assets. Benefits to controlling key areas or establishments.
* Live team events built upon a foundation of existing world lore. Real-time events, historical Masquerade characters, GM NPCs who can be interacted with or pull players into stories.
* Influences, boons, hallmarks of the social origins of vampires.
* Accessible to casual players. Low-intensity tasks to just pick up and do so players don't have to sit there idly.
* Playable Sabbat.
* Creation, building visible things that can be added to game. Ex. Toreador art, Nosferatu caverns. Some kind of crafting system.
* One big world with a dynamic power system that allows different factions to thrive.
* Stay true to the adult content. Blood, gore, darkness, tits.
* Present the themes of the World of Darkness as playable elements. Let the players participate in the things that make Vampire what it is.
* Allow players to participate meaningfully as casual and part-time players.
* Image and customization consultation -- players helping other players create their looks.
* Playable neonate-ancilla-elder model with meaningful play, all with impact on the in-world vitae economy.
* Status system -- how to represent and elder concept. Players that can participate as setting, a piece of the environment.
* Unique and empowering via rarity.
* Rarity of combat unless it's a character's focus.
* Severity and fearsomeness of combat.
* World that responds to the actions of the characters. Dynamic, changing, adapting to how players use the world.
* A system to allow players to form groups of their own design as opposed to just sharing commonalities like clan and Disciplines.
* GLBT friendly content.
* Rewards for advancement tied to tiered mastery of ability or chance rolls.
* Final Death.
* Bloodline characters. Seeing the effects of actions the players have taken in character selection.
* Use relationships with fan organizations to allow players to play their LARP characters and vice versa.
* Crafting +1 but not materials farming.
* Immersion as a priority. Reward the long-time player who's been into Vampire as opposed to the sillier players who are aggravating elements in other MMOs. Jumping goofball players break the mood.
* Non-unique names as a matter of character identity.
* Other WoD critters. The whole panoply of supernatural creature types.
* Cherry pick the strong parts of Requiem.
* Mortals, participate in the Embrace, etc. X2 X3
* Embrace. X2
* Diablerie.
* Ability to flag self for PvP allowability.
* Communication needs. Make communication happen in a way that's not as as intrusive as "global chat UI".
* Politics outside clan and sect. City politics, for example. Domains and territories?
* A sense of history imparted to elder characters. Flashback sequences, historical instances, etc.
* Narrative that's not wholly reliant on players to facilitate the content.
* Control the rate of character progression and provide content so that casual and time-constrained players can still participate meaningfully.
* Personal spaces like havens. Ability to damage or conspire against havens. Or help cultivate them.
I´m worried about immersion with hundreds of xXxEduards_Sparkling_queensxXx around =/
Let´s see...
now: GW2 (11 80s). Dark Souls 2. future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord. "Bro, do your even fractal?" Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
Comments
This is all guesswork in regards to CCP's version of WoD. Unless you work at CCP (in which case, I'd guess you know then, huh?) Nobody really knows what CCP is going to do with the game. The mentioned the word 'permadeath'. They didn't say it was going to be in the game. They've mentioned very little actually.
I think though, they are not as concerned with getting a million subs as other game companies. A more hardcore game is definitely possible. As long as it doesn't turn into IMVU or Twilight Online I'll probably be there on day one.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Permadeath? I just read about this and the last I heard, the concept was something floated by a random fan, but never seriously acknowledged. Is there a link to the confirmation for this? If so, I'd like to know quickly so I can cross the game off my list.
If they keep adding "elements" like this, the game will be lucky to even have a niche market left over.
WOW i never even knew about this..
Loved the old PC games and also the pen and paper version... I will be keeping an eye on this for sure
Well, their working on this in an odd fashion. I am guessing noone at CCP iceland can really tell you what the game will be. As they are building the engine to the game. The rules and storylines are being developed in Atlanta at the White wofl location. This means between the two they don't really have a good idea how is going to work in the end fully. Justin Achilli gave an outline of how the game is being designed but everyone knows a general outline given at a point that is 1-2 years from game completion is pointless. It's kind of like a 30,000 foot outline. IE, these are the points we would like to hit, lets throw darts and hope we get close.
White Wolf produced a very good table top game in Vampire the Masquerade. They ran through a huge number of book on the various different subjects of it. When CCP took over White wolf they needed to make money. They produced Vampire: Requiem and all the various books that went with that. Those books boosted company money from the low point it had reached because they had exhausted the sales on the old world of darkness. They didn't exhaust their fan base on old world of darkness. Requiem changed up the politics of the system but players still tried to play it with somewhat of an old world feeling.
You will notice that at the 20 year mark White Wolf publishing is putting out the Vampire the Masquerade books. That is because at this point getting those books has become difficult to find and CCP has released it's grip on the company somewhat. The developers of those two worlds like them both. They have alot invested into them. I know this I live very close to Atlanta. Each has their place, but if you were to ask most vampire players they would chose old world over new world of darkness. This is because oWoD is what got them into the genere in the first place. It is what they expect to see.
CCP is designing the game engine for this. They aren't designing the world. That was designed by a pen and paper roleplaying company long ago. Even Trioka when the published Bloodlines kept with the cannon of the world.
Taken from http://www.wodnews.net/Wiki.aspx
Confirmed information:
- The game has been in development since 2006. According to CCP Producer Chris it continues to remain in pre-production status as of Aug 2011.
- This has been slowed by keeping up with EVE and developing Incarna.
- Preparing to develop 'carbon technology' aka Incarna framework for what should provide state-of-the-art character customizations, unlike any seen in any game before, for the mmo.
- They are particularly psyched about the customization framework. they claim they have in fact, hired a fashion consultant, to help make the system more realistic and stylish.
- Another 1.5 years has been spent preparing the actual gameplay
- They have increased their staff by 6 times the previous head count
- They've put 629k man-hours into this MMO as of Sept 2010 -- so far.
- In a 2009 public financial project outlook CCP document the following 2 quotes were taken from it as they directly relate to the WoD project:
"Given the World of Darkness legacy, its large fan base, and proven appeal to both genders, we estimate the subscriber potential of this product to be two to three times that of EVE Online, without competing head on with CCP's existing products thus enabling wider total appeal."
"This engine will manage the full-body representation of humans, creatures, and other non-player-characters (NPC) for both indoor and outdoor game environment settings. Ambulation includes R&D in Artificial Intelligence, Animation Systems, Advanced Character Rendering Technology, Crowd Simulation, Navigation, and Pathfinding for agents in indoor environments. Ambulation will be used to deliver the new EVE Online feature “Walking in Stations”, and will be the technology foundation for the World of Darkness character system."
Regarding coffee house, sandbox and theme parks style of play that we've discussed on the forum, burgermeister writes; "from what they said, these three spheres should be closely tied and interconnected together, essentially running the economy of blood in the game. "
The four overall themes they intended to have in the game are:
- Mystery
- Romance
- Power
- Danger
"For concrete facts, we learned that the game will be ready, by earliest, 2012. the game will be based on vampire: the masquerade. specifically, in the initial release of the game, there will only be vampires as supernatural, playable characters. There will however, be elements from werewolf, changeling, etc., likely in the form of environmental content, and npcs."
-One of their criteria for success is to make the game as accessible as possible. specifically they want to get women involved in the game, as well as casual players. also, they want to maximize the amount of human interaction that happens in the game.
-They confirmed that the game will not be combat intensive (unless you choose as such). Knowing, influencing the correct people is arguable more important than being the biggest brawler.
-They will not be catering to immaturity in the game, however, they would like to see these types of offenses policed by players, rather than in-game mechanics.
"I personally offered up one of the board's suggestions of permanent death as a solution to controlling an otherwise glut of kindred population within any one area. This was one of the suggestions that got applause from the audience. i also couldn't help but notice two of the content developers smirking -- I think permanent death is a serious possibility in the mmo. a lot of other fans made the same or similar suggestions. this remark also drew out a comment from the panel, suggesting that the game world would consist of one server rather than multiple servers, after someone else suggested that some servers offer this permanent death option while others did not. (his response "servers? what servers?") "
-They confirmed that factions and territories will almost certainly be a big part of the game.
-They confirmed that the game will definitely contains gay clubs. This is an excellent angle to cater to the gay and lesbian audience.
-They again, did confirm, that starting off there would only be vampires, but one of the other developers also confirmed that there would be playable human classes -- although nothing specific. I only can assume he means the likes of ghouls and hunters.
-The game will be fully PvP, i.e. There may be elysium areas, but nothing like the flagging system, as seen in PvE wow servers.
-In regards to the development cycles, some disciplines simply will not be included because they are way too complicate to implement well -- specifically, temporis.
The following are notes of the topics, confirmations of what a attendee took who listened to Justin Achilli on a panel at the 2010 Grand Masquerade;
* Not a lot of quests. Org versus org. Player-driven faction content and conflict.
* Not a WOW clone. Repetitive quests are boring and unfulfilling.
* Concerns over how mental or social influence powers are handled. How to do this well and meaningfully? Players uncomfortable with a loss of control over avatar.
* Players want to control other characters, however.
* Territory control. An adult-only play space. Roleplayers want a space where the integrity of the setting colors the conversation. Don't want to suffer through Chuck Norris jokes and other immersion-breaking chatter.
* Content that reinforces themes that are the cornerstones of the WoD. "Shivers up the spine."
* An exploration of who a new character is, so that he's not just dropped tabula rasa into the world. Random backgrounds, connections to the world, hooks into world participation.
* Powers that cleave closely to the powers that exist in the game, but also expand into new directions for appropriate Disciplines. Making them work in tandem with the system, so that they make sense in the world.
* Finite numbers of the supernatural critter types.
* Permadeath. Server type preference?
* Allow social powers to be socially versatile. A character can be successful socially; not all advancement is tied to combat or traditional "leveling."
* Factional control of regions or assets. Benefits to controlling key areas or establishments.
* Live team events built upon a foundation of existing world lore. Real-time events, historical Masquerade characters, GM NPCs who can be interacted with or pull players into stories.
* Influences, boons, hallmarks of the social origins of vampires.
* Accessible to casual players. Low-intensity tasks to just pick up and do so players don't have to sit there idly.
* Playable Sabbat.
* Creation, building visible things that can be added to game. Ex. Toreador art, Nosferatu caverns. Some kind of crafting system.
* One big world with a dynamic power system that allows different factions to thrive.
* Stay true to the adult content. Blood, gore, darkness, tits.
* Present the themes of the World of Darkness as playable elements. Let the players participate in the things that make Vampire what it is.
* Allow players to participate meaningfully as casual and part-time players.
* Image and customization consultation -- players helping other players create their looks.
* Playable neonate-ancilla-elder model with meaningful play, all with impact on the in-world vitae economy.
* Status system -- how to represent and elder concept. Players that can participate as setting, a piece of the environment.
* Unique and empowering via rarity.
* Rarity of combat unless it's a character's focus.
* Severity and fearsomeness of combat.
* World that responds to the actions of the characters. Dynamic, changing, adapting to how players use the world.
* A system to allow players to form groups of their own design as opposed to just sharing commonalities like clan and Disciplines.
* GLBT friendly content.
* Rewards for advancement tied to tiered mastery of ability or chance rolls.
* Final Death.
* Bloodline characters. Seeing the effects of actions the players have taken in character selection.
* Use relationships with fan organizations to allow players to play their LARP characters and vice versa.
* Crafting +1 but not materials farming.
* Immersion as a priority. Reward the long-time player who's been into Vampire as opposed to the sillier players who are aggravating elements in other MMOs. Jumping goofball players break the mood.
* Non-unique names as a matter of character identity.
* Other WoD critters. The whole panoply of supernatural creature types.
* Cherry pick the strong parts of Requiem.
* Mortals, participate in the Embrace, etc. X2 X3
* Embrace. X2
* Diablerie.
* Ability to flag self for PvP allowability.
* Communication needs. Make communication happen in a way that's not as as intrusive as "global chat UI".
* Politics outside clan and sect. City politics, for example. Domains and territories?
* A sense of history imparted to elder characters. Flashback sequences, historical instances, etc.
* Narrative that's not wholly reliant on players to facilitate the content.
* Control the rate of character progression and provide content so that casual and time-constrained players can still participate meaningfully.
* Personal spaces like havens. Ability to damage or conspire against havens. Or help cultivate them.
* Torpor as a clone-type mechanic as a backup.
* Casual player rewards and impetus.
Excellent. I hope they can deliver on those points. I have faith, but creating an MMO is a daunting task. I worry about their finances.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
I´m worried about immersion with hundreds of xXxEduards_Sparkling_queensxXx around =/
Let´s see...
now: GW2 (11 80s).
Dark Souls 2.
future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
"Bro, do your even fractal?"
Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.