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After Black Opal asking to defend MO on MMORPG.com...

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  • MordragMOMordragMO Member Posts: 136

    Originally posted by Picklebeast

    -I agree herc.

     

    I also wanted to add my 2 cents. I think that honestly black opal does a great job for what he has to work with- it would be really difficult to be the CM of a game in MO's state. I am not hating on Black Opal for attempting to do his job, especially when his job is so difficult. If I were paid to defend this game and attempt to keep the forums looking nice for potential investers, I would have given up a long time ago.

    Are you saying you wouldn't take a fulltime job for a crappy premium subscription or two?

     

    {mod edit}

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,593

    Originally posted by deathshroud

    i see it as a place to talk about the game, people here see it as a way to destroy the game but in turn it constantly letting people know about MO and the opinions of 5-6 people constantly making the same sort of posts over and over does not suggest to anyone with any common sense that the game is how they state it to be. They are simply haters nothing more.

     

    with a free trial available its easy to get a little bit of a taste of mo.

     Perhaps the hundreds (possibly thousands by this point) of other posters who posted similar experiences and opinions might help though!  I can assure you that the number of people reporting a bad experience is exponentially greater than those reporting that "All is well".

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,430

    I don't think that the MO community has a chance of changing anyones mind.  The simple fact is that this community doesn't want anything positive to happen with MO.  The thrill is in the butchering of the game.  I don't play the game, but from what I read, they have made some improvements, although still not where they need to be.  Unfortunately I don't think it will matter what changes they make, because nobody wants them to succeed.  The bad taste has been left in the mouth.  Hell, the way I read many of the threads it seems like many people haven't played since the beginning and haven't checked out the new changes.  But like I said in the beginning, I don't believe that MO has any chance at a fair trial on this forum.

    I self identify as a monkey.

  • kakasakikakasaki Member UncommonPosts: 1,205

    Originally posted by mgilbrtsn

    I don't think that the MO community has a chance of changing anyones mind.  The simple fact is that this community doesn't want anything positive to happen with MO.  The thrill is in the butchering of the game.  I don't play the game, but from what I read, they have made some improvements, although still not where they need to be.  Unfortunately I don't think it will matter what changes they make, because nobody wants them to succeed.  The bad taste has been left in the mouth.  Hell, the way I read many of the threads it seems like many people haven't played since the beginning and haven't checked out the new changes.  But like I said in the beginning, I don't believe that MO has any chance at a fair trial on this forum.

    That is a broad over generalization. I honestly don't believe most posters on these forums want MO to fail. Most people (myself included) had high hopes for this game . I think the "anger" comes from the colossal disapointment the game has turned out to be and what some perceive to be questionable business practices on the part of the developer.

     

    At the end of the day, MO is a victim of its own faults and lack of polish. There is a free trial for people to test the game and see if they like it and there lies the problem. I think people have taken advantage of the trial and seen for themselves the sad state of the game...  

     

    A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  • KenFisherKenFisher Member UncommonPosts: 5,035

    Originally posted by Slapshot1188

     

     Perhaps the hundreds (possibly thousands by this point) of other posters who posted similar experiences and opinions might help though!  I can assure you that the number of people reporting a bad experience is exponentially greater than those reporting that "All is well".

     

    My experience was this.  Sign up for trial.  Download the trial client.  Couldn't get logged in because the server crashed on the weekend and for some reason couldn't be restarted.  Uninstalled, will try again later.

     

    That doesn't make me "hate" the game, nor want it to fail, nor do I go around bad-mouthing it.

     

    I still hope that I get the opportunity to check it out.  Application of true first person looks great in the videos.  The environments and character art look very well done.  The gameplay concepts are so different than any MMO I've played it would be cool to see it first hand.

     

    From a dev perspective, they're using the Unreal engine *drool*  I like the way it renders, I wish I could have some of the fancy effects they have.  I'd really like to see it become a major hit.  There's no reason it shouldn't be one.

     

    I guess if anything my point is.  I take anything from the "haters" with a bit of skepticism.  I take anything from the fanboys with a bit of skepticism.  What I see is a very cool game with lots of potential and a few rough edges that need to be (or possibly already have been) worked out.  It would be great to see things resolved and the game reach its potential.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  When I don't understand, I ask.  Such is not intended as criticism.
  • CatchmeifuCatchmeifu Member Posts: 45

    Originally posted by Toferio

    Originally posted by Catchmeifu




    28th August 2011, 00:29

      #2 (permalink)



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    SV dont defend their own game, they dont have the time so a few of us do.



    This thread is retarded and a waste of space.


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    Not true, henrik had for a hobby to argue about how awesome everything in MO was in every slightly negative thread until some community manager put a leash on him.

     

     

    So your telling me it was not true but is true now..........................because if he does not do it any more it must be true right?

     

    Cheers for the insight.

     

  • deathshrouddeathshroud Member Posts: 1,366

    Mortal online is a niche game, the very truth of it is that if you checked out MO then you have interest in the niche market it occupies, If you purchased the game based on its promised features and concepts then you purchased a game becuase you like what it is trying to achieve/is achieving and is in you niche market.

    To get disapointed with mo when realising it is in a state not fit for release at release is understandable, afterall i did play the game at release and it was horrid. But that experience did not change the fact that i was looknig for a game with MO's concepts and in the niche market MO occupies.

     

    If you cannot stomach the current state of the game mainly due to bugs and a lack of polish, then i see no reason why you would abosultely detest the game and want it to fail and disapear, afterall its in that niche market you was looking into and had those cool features/concepts you always wanted.

     

    the simple truth is some people hold a deep resentment for the game that transends the usual gripes with a computer game, it turns into revulsion brought on by a hatred for the community and developers wanting them to fail at every and all things they do turning into obsession (in msot cases here broguht on through being banned). This is not simply being a fan of the niche market, a true fan of open world sandbox mmos with full loot and pvp would love to see MO reach its potential and thrive even if they currently arent palying or had a bad experience previously. They would still want the chance to play the game in the future because what originally atracted them to the product (the concept) is something SV have stayed true to.

     

    So with so few games in its niche market why not hope MO succeeds so you can come back and paly it in 6 months or 2 years time. As oppossed to simply wanting it to vanish from a sparse market with concepts and features you always wanted. Me personally, i cant wait to see what darkfall2.0 brings or to see the future of eve and to eventually see MO expand and reach its potential becuase i am a fan of sandbox games. Im not gonig to try to bad mouth or kill off one of them because i want options when it comes to what games i want to play in my niche market, competition is healthy.

    there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  • ToferioToferio Member UncommonPosts: 1,411

    Originally posted by deathshroud

    If you cannot stomach the current state of the game mainly due to bugs and a lack of polish, then i see no reason why you would abosultely detest the game and want it to fail and disapear, afterall its in that niche market you was looking into and had those cool features/concepts you always wanted.

    I think you are confusing dislike for the company running the game with the dislike of the game it self. I personally have nothing against the game, but I don't wish for SV to succeed since it would be a bad example for other, that you can lie to your customers and cheat them, do lots of shady stuff, censorship your forums like its second world war, release bugged and unfinished product, not to mention all the empty promises, and yet still success. I am for one glad that they can't moderate mmorpg.com, so new players can get a glimpse of what company is really like, and what bugs and exploits they ignore.

    Yes, this is a tough industry, but there is a fine line between tricks of survival and dirty play, which SV crossed long time ago imo.

    Then again, I don't really resort to making negative topics once a day, but eachone up to their own. I hope this sheds some light on your pondering.


    Originally posted by ActionMMORPG

    From a dev perspective, they're using the Unreal engine *drool*  I like the way it renders, I wish I could have some of the fancy effects they have.  I'd really like to see it become a major hit.  There's no reason it shouldn't be one.

    I think UDK gives you access to same tools as they use rendering wise. And it's free.

  • osmundaosmunda Member Posts: 1,087

    Originally posted by Peckus

    Originally posted by ange10

    The op of that thread who asking people not to defend the game on mmorpg.com was banned on mo forums for trolling and directing hate towards people within the mortal online community.

     

    He's clearly not banned.  http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/members/blastfromdapast.html

    Blastfromdapast is an account that was created just a couple months ago. The poster behind that account says he is a former block A player. Obviously he wasn't in block A beta testing on his current account, so ange10 was probably referring to the old account.

    http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/60820-new-community-manager-will-you-ever-honor-new-disc-promise.html

  • nortoninortoni Member Posts: 48

    Originally posted by Toferio

    I think you are confusing dislike for the company running the game with the dislike of the game it self. I personally have nothing against the game, but I don't wish for SV to succeed since it would be a bad example for other, that you can lie to your customers and cheat them, do lots of shady stuff, censorship your forums like its second world war, release bugged and unfinished product, not to mention all the empty promises, and yet still success. I am for one glad that they can't moderate mmorpg.com, so new players can get a glimpse of what company is really like, and what bugs and exploits they ignore.

    Yes, this is a tough industry, but there is a fine line between tricks of survival and dirty play, which SV crossed long time ago imo.

    Then again, I don't really resort to making negative topics once a day, but eachone up to their own. I hope this sheds some light on your pondering.

    For a very long time now all that was left was "wishing" they would succeed. 

    The wish bubble has popped. 

    The niche remains open.

    Its about me

  • ange10ange10 Member Posts: 307

    he was banned previously, the account is unbanned. I and many others reported his posts on mo forum because they was mostly hate related directed towards people within the community and the dev team.

     

    he wasn't perma banned, the ban was plobs 2 months or something, because it takes 3 infractions to even get banned.

  • pockets666pockets666 Member Posts: 198

    Originally posted by ange10

    he was banned previously, the account is unbanned. I and many others reported his posts on mo forum because they was mostly hate related directed towards people within the community and the dev team.

     

    he wasn't perma banned, the ban was plobs 2 months or something, because it takes 3 infractions to even get banned.

    Well that is bullshit I got perma banned with less than 3 infractions.  Reason Being "Persona Non Grata"  lol.  And I never said anything worse than what people like PBilly say now.  I was very critical of all the broken content they were shoving down our throat.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,593

    I believe that the linked OP is wrong.   It is a great thing to have fans and critics freely debate in an open and uncensored (contentwise) forum.  I just wish that someone from SV would take the advice as well and hop on over here(publicly)!

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • deathshrouddeathshroud Member Posts: 1,366

    well thats were i cant understand why there is a dislike of the dev team. Mainly because since beta i have not had any problems with them at all other than them being a small company and all the usual gripes that go with it. for example before i clicked the pre-order option i seen their description of small indie development team and the emphasis on a very bumpy road to release. After that i knew what sort of ride i was in for before i hit the pre-order button, i knew what features would be in at release becasue they listed them and all but tindrem (with some extras) got released. I understood what i would get in the special edition and didnt pre-order that because it didnt look worth it to me.

     SV have made a few bad decisions in the past, but as a first time developer with a low amount of funds its understandable. You all might think the small indie company with no money argument has been overused, but it is the truth. Thats what they are and still are. Trying to ignore that statement wont make it go away.

    there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  • ToferioToferio Member UncommonPosts: 1,411

    Originally posted by deathshroud

    well thats were i cant understand why there is a dislike of the dev team. Mainly because since beta i have not had any problems with them at all other than them being a small company and all the usual gripes that go with it. for example before i clicked the pre-order option i seen their description of small indie development team and the emphasis on a very bumpy road to release.

    Everything is relative. When I read bumpy, I expected somewhat unstable, but playable game. Not completely empty beta where all you could do is run around and hit things (block A). Same goes for current product, I think that a year is more then enough to get your stuff straight. Then again, as said, "bumpy" is a very relative term, I guess.

    After that i knew what sort of ride i was in for before i hit the pre-order button, i knew what features would be in at release becasue they listed them and all but tindrem (with some extras) got released.

    True, but you see, there is a twist to that. When I buy a car for a price of a prosche, I expect the car quality to be relative to that price, not to a budget volvo. If they charge as much (was even more at start) as AAA title, I expect the features they promised to be fully developed and functional, not stripped down to their bare core and bugged.

    If I say "Character progression feature", you would probably think of levels, talents, perks, gear, attribute points, all in one package and you would be right to do so, considering your (I assume) experince with other MMO titles. However I think you would be pissed if all you got was exp grind and a level number to follow that. That's exactly what SV did. A simple feature such as Territory control can be as much as days and days of gameplay or just a change of a tag on the house.

     SV have made a few bad decisions in the past, but as a first time developer with a low amount of funds its understandable. You all might think the small indie company with no money argument has been overused, but it is the truth. Thats what they are and still are. Trying to ignore that statement wont make it go away.

    Having no money is no excuse for bad design decisions and trial and error approach to developing, turning your customers into labrats.

    Apart from that, what annoys me most are all the tricks SV uses to stay afloat. Sure, one is required to bite in and do everything one can, but to go nazi modding on forum in order to pretend everything is alright to new customers (who do you think ordered it?), or ignore the community suggestions and continue releasing broken features instead of focusing on the core.. The list can go on, all the small stuff together contribute to SV leaving a really bad taste in the mouth, and I wish for them to not become an successful example for others to point fingers to and say "If they got away with it, so can we!".

    Then again, each one to their own. I can understand not everyone sharing my opinion about the company.

  • PicklebeastPicklebeast Member Posts: 273

    Originally posted by Toferio

    Originally posted by deathshroud

    well thats were i cant understand why there is a dislike of the dev team. Mainly because since beta i have not had any problems with them at all other than them being a small company and all the usual gripes that go with it. for example before i clicked the pre-order option i seen their description of small indie development team and the emphasis on a very bumpy road to release.

    Everything is relative. When I read bumpy, I expected somewhat unstable, but playable game. Not completely empty beta where all you could do is run around and hit things (block A). Same goes for current product, I think that a year is more then enough to get your stuff straight. Then again, as said, "bumpy" is a very relative term, I guess.

    After that i knew what sort of ride i was in for before i hit the pre-order button, i knew what features would be in at release becasue they listed them and all but tindrem (with some extras) got released.

    True, but you see, there is a twist to that. When I buy a car for a price of a prosche, I expect the car quality to be relative to that price, not to a budget volvo. If they charge as much (was even more at start) as AAA title, I expect the features they promised to be fully developed and functional, not stripped down to their bare core and bugged.

    If I say "Character progression feature", you would probably think of levels, talents, perks, gear, attribute points, all in one package and you would be right to do so, considering your (I assume) experince with other MMO titles. However I think you would be pissed if all you got was exp grind and a level number to follow that. That's exactly what SV did. A simple feature such as Territory control can be as much as days and days of gameplay or just a change of a tag on the house.

     SV have made a few bad decisions in the past, but as a first time developer with a low amount of funds its understandable. You all might think the small indie company with no money argument has been overused, but it is the truth. Thats what they are and still are. Trying to ignore that statement wont make it go away.

    Having no money is no excuse for bad design decisions and trial and error approach to developing, turning your customers into labrats.

    Apart from that, what annoys me most are all the tricks SV uses to stay afloat. Sure, one is required to bite in and do everything one can, but to go nazi modding on forum in order to pretend everything is alright to new customers (who do you think ordered it?), or ignore the community suggestions and continue releasing broken features instead of focusing on the core.. The list can go on, all the small stuff together contribute to SV leaving a really bad taste in the mouth, and I wish for them to not become an successful example for others to point fingers to and say "If they got away with it, so can we!".

    Then again, each one to their own. I can understand not everyone sharing my opinion about the company.

    Very well put. You sum it up quite well.

     

    I would also add the complete inability to take responsibility for their problems. The SV "blame game" is unprecidented. Nothing is ever their fault- Hell, the customers are even blamed and accused of being "carebear" or "wow kiddies" if they leave the game angry because there is no sandbox here, game is nearly unplayable, there are no real goals and its a PVP deathmatch.

     

    When will we get a real sandbox game? If this is the spiritual succesor to UO than I am the King of England.

  • CatchmeifuCatchmeifu Member Posts: 45

    Originally posted by Picklebeast

    Originally posted by Toferio


    Originally posted by deathshroud

    well thats were i cant understand why there is a dislike of the dev team. Mainly because since beta i have not had any problems with them at all other than them being a small company and all the usual gripes that go with it. for example before i clicked the pre-order option i seen their description of small indie development team and the emphasis on a very bumpy road to release.

    Everything is relative. When I read bumpy, I expected somewhat unstable, but playable game. Not completely empty beta where all you could do is run around and hit things (block A). Same goes for current product, I think that a year is more then enough to get your stuff straight. Then again, as said, "bumpy" is a very relative term, I guess.

    After that i knew what sort of ride i was in for before i hit the pre-order button, i knew what features would be in at release becasue they listed them and all but tindrem (with some extras) got released.

    True, but you see, there is a twist to that. When I buy a car for a price of a prosche, I expect the car quality to be relative to that price, not to a budget volvo. If they charge as much (was even more at start) as AAA title, I expect the features they promised to be fully developed and functional, not stripped down to their bare core and bugged.

    If I say "Character progression feature", you would probably think of levels, talents, perks, gear, attribute points, all in one package and you would be right to do so, considering your (I assume) experince with other MMO titles. However I think you would be pissed if all you got was exp grind and a level number to follow that. That's exactly what SV did. A simple feature such as Territory control can be as much as days and days of gameplay or just a change of a tag on the house.

     SV have made a few bad decisions in the past, but as a first time developer with a low amount of funds its understandable. You all might think the small indie company with no money argument has been overused, but it is the truth. Thats what they are and still are. Trying to ignore that statement wont make it go away.

    Having no money is no excuse for bad design decisions and trial and error approach to developing, turning your customers into labrats.

    Apart from that, what annoys me most are all the tricks SV uses to stay afloat. Sure, one is required to bite in and do everything one can, but to go nazi modding on forum in order to pretend everything is alright to new customers (who do you think ordered it?), or ignore the community suggestions and continue releasing broken features instead of focusing on the core.. The list can go on, all the small stuff together contribute to SV leaving a really bad taste in the mouth, and I wish for them to not become an successful example for others to point fingers to and say "If they got away with it, so can we!".

    Then again, each one to their own. I can understand not everyone sharing my opinion about the company.

    Very well put. You sum it up quite well.

     

    I would also add the complete inability to take responsibility for their problems. The SV "blame game" is unprecidented. Nothing is ever their fault- Hell, the customers are even blamed and accused of being "carebear" or "wow kiddies" if they leave the game angry because there is no sandbox here, game is nearly unplayable, there are no real goals and its a PVP deathmatch.

     

    When will we get a real sandbox game? If this is the spiritual succesor to UO than I am the King of England.

    Well at least there giving it a shot. You guys seem to know all the insid goss and what not so you must be able to tell us the real story because I doubt it is  not as black a white as it looks.

     

    Maybe you guys are the local shop assistances or maybe your ibm programmers I dont know.

     

    I understand these are your views but it sounds like to me you guys know how to do it better.

     

    So the real question is could you do it better?

  • pockets666pockets666 Member Posts: 198

    This dude makes way too much sense. 

     





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    Mauzi even though i m watching your posts carefully and i found a lot of them constructive i totally agree with your points even in this last post but common sense -mine at least imposes not to pay attention by feeding the troll in threads like that. I m an old gamer but tbh i m not a forum person so i wasnt aware of the existance of that MMORPG site and now since i m on extended vacation and cant play MO in my laptop i m simply killing my dead hours crawlling on the forums. Thats how it came to my attention through MO official forums the existance of that site.



    Last few days i had a lot of free time and since movement in MO forums was dead i was reading a lot of new and older posts in those MMORPG forums. I noticed there that a lot of things have being said correctly and words and people where representing MO's bad shape and SV's horrible performance and some other words where of course not true, people where over reacting, talking about the end of the world, the end of MO, the end of SV etc etc. The thing that did way too much impression to me though was that all conversations where under a good, friendly and mature clime and the few times that conversation was out of trails, was when some fanboys where trying to present MO like the paradise for gamers and ofc they didnt stop there but sometimes where insulting, rude and without puting any constructive arguments on the table where throwing arrows towards anyone had a different opinion. Preety much the same deal with MO forums with only difference that in MMORPG forums moderators where not tolerating their insulting behaviour and the lack of respect towards other people and their opinions.



    Ofc there where also other people like Deathshroud that where trying to express opinions with polite and constructive way and they wherent blatand neither where pretending to be blind and negative on admiting existing problems and the usual trolls that without puting any arguments on the table or provide proofs they where simply stating things most time not even remotely close to reality. Anyway my point is that is pointless trying to put some sense to someone who prolly doesnt even play the game and it would prolly make more difference to point things that are happening in our forums that simply dont make sense are unethical, highly unprofessional and unfortunately are ment to target a supposely 18+ year old audience with average IQ. I m reffering to that:



    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Black Opal View Post




    If you have an account over there; or are an MMORPG.com community member, I would like to ask you to participate in the Mortal Online section, as it does need help from people who are not as biased. Be Constructive, Be polite.


    to put it in simple words a company's community manager is patronising his customers to go in another site and get into conflict with unhappy people with the specific company. I simply couldnt believe in my eyes when i saw this. Those words epitomize the total lack of profesionalism of Black Opal and ofc of Sv cause in this pages he represents Sv and thats his job.



    Personally regarding my contact with SV, Henrik, Black Opal or whoever represents SV inside those forums as a customer that i ve paid for a boxed version+ a digital download +sub for 2 accounts in my attempts to get some answers through this forums concerning the game or the idea behind it to help myself deciding if i m gonna stay and play or i m gonna stop supporting and playing cause the experience with MO and the repeated failures, bugs, lack of content where making me feel frustrated from times to times, i felt that i was totaly ignored and didnt had the apreciation and the respect that company or Henrik or whoever is supposed to have some relationship with the community was obligated to pay to me. And now i see Black Opal a community manager whos hiding behind a nickname to ask for me to go in some gaming forums and backup the game?



    And to answer to Black Opal to his awfull, childish, amateur, unprofesional and ridiculous suggestion: if you where able to drive the game in a decent state, to iron some gamebreaking bugs that are there forever, if you could pay respect to the ones supporting you all this time, if you where able to deliver new content without breaking the game for several weeks after or if at least you could try to prove yourselfs worthy by showing some improvement instead of circling around the same old crap again, if you where decent in your moderation and if you where more customer friendly concerning feedbacks on development, bug fixing, incoming changes then be sure that you wouldnt have to suggest hidious things like that- seriously even my 9 year old niss as community manager she could be more of a diplomat and wise and cautious on her forum behaviour- cause no one would bother to start a negative marathon against SV and its staff and also be sure that your economy would be in way better shape by itself not only cause you wouldnt have lose thousands of subscribers but the existing subscribers would certainly had bringing friends, other members from gaming guilds/communities to support a healthy and forward moving promissing game. Atm no one dares to suggest the game to people he knows to avoid humiliating himself.


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  • ToferioToferio Member UncommonPosts: 1,411

    Originally posted by Catchmeifu

     So the real question is could you do it better?

    We will probably never know that, since I doubt any of us have a rich dad willing to pool money into such a project. Then again, I am not a big fan of "do it better yourself" argument unless the thing in question is free. If they are getting paid for doing it right, I think it is fair to have some demands or to be able to critisize them.

    If that was however a free project, I'd keep my mouth shut. Sure the quality may be lacking of such, but if you didn't pay anything, you can't demand anything either.

  • PicklebeastPicklebeast Member Posts: 273

    Originally posted by Catchmeifu

    Originally posted by Picklebeast


    Originally posted by Toferio


    Originally posted by deathshroud

    well thats were i cant understand why there is a dislike of the dev team. Mainly because since beta i have not had any problems with them at all other than them being a small company and all the usual gripes that go with it. for example before i clicked the pre-order option i seen their description of small indie development team and the emphasis on a very bumpy road to release.

    Everything is relative. When I read bumpy, I expected somewhat unstable, but playable game. Not completely empty beta where all you could do is run around and hit things (block A). Same goes for current product, I think that a year is more then enough to get your stuff straight. Then again, as said, "bumpy" is a very relative term, I guess.

    After that i knew what sort of ride i was in for before i hit the pre-order button, i knew what features would be in at release becasue they listed them and all but tindrem (with some extras) got released.

    True, but you see, there is a twist to that. When I buy a car for a price of a prosche, I expect the car quality to be relative to that price, not to a budget volvo. If they charge as much (was even more at start) as AAA title, I expect the features they promised to be fully developed and functional, not stripped down to their bare core and bugged.

    If I say "Character progression feature", you would probably think of levels, talents, perks, gear, attribute points, all in one package and you would be right to do so, considering your (I assume) experince with other MMO titles. However I think you would be pissed if all you got was exp grind and a level number to follow that. That's exactly what SV did. A simple feature such as Territory control can be as much as days and days of gameplay or just a change of a tag on the house.

     SV have made a few bad decisions in the past, but as a first time developer with a low amount of funds its understandable. You all might think the small indie company with no money argument has been overused, but it is the truth. Thats what they are and still are. Trying to ignore that statement wont make it go away.

    Having no money is no excuse for bad design decisions and trial and error approach to developing, turning your customers into labrats.

    Apart from that, what annoys me most are all the tricks SV uses to stay afloat. Sure, one is required to bite in and do everything one can, but to go nazi modding on forum in order to pretend everything is alright to new customers (who do you think ordered it?), or ignore the community suggestions and continue releasing broken features instead of focusing on the core.. The list can go on, all the small stuff together contribute to SV leaving a really bad taste in the mouth, and I wish for them to not become an successful example for others to point fingers to and say "If they got away with it, so can we!".

    Then again, each one to their own. I can understand not everyone sharing my opinion about the company.

    Very well put. You sum it up quite well.

     

    I would also add the complete inability to take responsibility for their problems. The SV "blame game" is unprecidented. Nothing is ever their fault- Hell, the customers are even blamed and accused of being "carebear" or "wow kiddies" if they leave the game angry because there is no sandbox here, game is nearly unplayable, there are no real goals and its a PVP deathmatch.

     

    When will we get a real sandbox game? If this is the spiritual succesor to UO than I am the King of England.

    Well at least there giving it a shot. You guys seem to know all the insid goss and what not so you must be able to tell us the real story because I doubt it is  not as black a white as it looks.

     

    Maybe you guys are the local shop assistances or maybe your ibm programmers I dont know.

     

    I understand these are your views but it sounds like to me you guys know how to do it better.

     

    So the real question is could you do it better?

    I am not a shopkeepers assistance nor an IBM programer- In truth, I am an apprentice Electrician. 

    So no, I could not do it better- My programming experience goes about as far as RPG Maxer VX lol. But if I came over and quoted you an estimate to wire a new house you are building and I charged you the same as a Union outfit would charge- Would you not expect quality?

    When I am weeks past the deadline, my wiring is a mess and the box is sparking- I will ask "Can you do a better job yourself?". You will certainly understand my logic.

    Please dont rage to your friends, report me to ripoffreports.com or generally badmouth my work- 

  • CatchmeifuCatchmeifu Member Posts: 45

    Originally posted by Toferio

    Originally posted by Catchmeifu



     So the real question is could you do it better?

    We will probably never know that, since I doubt any of us have a rich dad willing to pool money into such a project. Then again, I am not a big fan of "do it better yourself" argument unless the thing in question is free. If they are getting paid for doing it right, I think it is fair to have some demands or to be able to critisize them.

    If that was however a free project, I'd keep my mouth shut. Sure the quality may be lacking of such, but if you didn't pay anything, you can't demand anything either.

    I dont see how the free thing matters.

     

    The point is you guys critisize for the sake of critisizing.

     

    And yes they are getting paid but its not like you are forced to pay for it.(that would be different).

     

    But yeah I guess it shows the potential of the game because if it did not most people would not waste there time with a game they do not play or played in the last 3 months. (not directed at anyone)

     

    So the jist I get is we argue and critisize because we can.

  • CatchmeifuCatchmeifu Member Posts: 45

    Originally posted by Picklebeast

    Originally posted by Catchmeifu


    Originally posted by Picklebeast


    Originally posted by Toferio


    Originally posted by deathshroud

    well thats were i cant understand why there is a dislike of the dev team. Mainly because since beta i have not had any problems with them at all other than them being a small company and all the usual gripes that go with it. for example before i clicked the pre-order option i seen their description of small indie development team and the emphasis on a very bumpy road to release.

    Everything is relative. When I read bumpy, I expected somewhat unstable, but playable game. Not completely empty beta where all you could do is run around and hit things (block A). Same goes for current product, I think that a year is more then enough to get your stuff straight. Then again, as said, "bumpy" is a very relative term, I guess.

    After that i knew what sort of ride i was in for before i hit the pre-order button, i knew what features would be in at release becasue they listed them and all but tindrem (with some extras) got released.

    True, but you see, there is a twist to that. When I buy a car for a price of a prosche, I expect the car quality to be relative to that price, not to a budget volvo. If they charge as much (was even more at start) as AAA title, I expect the features they promised to be fully developed and functional, not stripped down to their bare core and bugged.

    If I say "Character progression feature", you would probably think of levels, talents, perks, gear, attribute points, all in one package and you would be right to do so, considering your (I assume) experince with other MMO titles. However I think you would be pissed if all you got was exp grind and a level number to follow that. That's exactly what SV did. A simple feature such as Territory control can be as much as days and days of gameplay or just a change of a tag on the house.

     SV have made a few bad decisions in the past, but as a first time developer with a low amount of funds its understandable. You all might think the small indie company with no money argument has been overused, but it is the truth. Thats what they are and still are. Trying to ignore that statement wont make it go away.

    Having no money is no excuse for bad design decisions and trial and error approach to developing, turning your customers into labrats.

    Apart from that, what annoys me most are all the tricks SV uses to stay afloat. Sure, one is required to bite in and do everything one can, but to go nazi modding on forum in order to pretend everything is alright to new customers (who do you think ordered it?), or ignore the community suggestions and continue releasing broken features instead of focusing on the core.. The list can go on, all the small stuff together contribute to SV leaving a really bad taste in the mouth, and I wish for them to not become an successful example for others to point fingers to and say "If they got away with it, so can we!".

    Then again, each one to their own. I can understand not everyone sharing my opinion about the company.

    Very well put. You sum it up quite well.

     

    I would also add the complete inability to take responsibility for their problems. The SV "blame game" is unprecidented. Nothing is ever their fault- Hell, the customers are even blamed and accused of being "carebear" or "wow kiddies" if they leave the game angry because there is no sandbox here, game is nearly unplayable, there are no real goals and its a PVP deathmatch.

     

    When will we get a real sandbox game? If this is the spiritual succesor to UO than I am the King of England.

    Well at least there giving it a shot. You guys seem to know all the insid goss and what not so you must be able to tell us the real story because I doubt it is  not as black a white as it looks.

     

    Maybe you guys are the local shop assistances or maybe your ibm programmers I dont know.

     

    I understand these are your views but it sounds like to me you guys know how to do it better.

     

    So the real question is could you do it better?

    I am not a shopkeepers assistance nor an IBM programer- In truth, I am an apprentice Electrician. 

    So no, I could not do it better- My programming experience goes about as far as RPG Maxer VX lol. But if I came over and quoted you an estimate to wire a new house you are building and I charged you the same as a Union outfit would charge- Would you not expect quality?

    When I am weeks past the deadline, my wiring is a mess and the box is sparking- I will ask "Can you do a better job yourself?". You will certainly understand my logic.

    Please dont rage to your friends, report me to ripoffreports.com or generally badmouth my work- 

    The thing is research, if you did the work and it was shit i  just would not go back to you for further work. And at the end of the day the price does not reflect the quality of any product its just a assumption.

    I can kind of see what you are trying to say but its like comparing apples and oranges, there kind of the same but not.

    And what you expect and get are two different things.

    At the end of the day you dont have to keep paying for it and are not forced into it by anyone.

  • LisXiaLisXia Member Posts: 390

    Originally posted by Catchmeifu

    Originally posted by Toferio


    Originally posted by Catchmeifu



     So the real question is could you do it better?

    We will probably never know that, since I doubt any of us have a rich dad willing to pool money into such a project. Then again, I am not a big fan of "do it better yourself" argument unless the thing in question is free. If they are getting paid for doing it right, I think it is fair to have some demands or to be able to critisize them.

    If that was however a free project, I'd keep my mouth shut. Sure the quality may be lacking of such, but if you didn't pay anything, you can't demand anything either.

    I dont see how the free thing matters.

     

    The point is you guys critisize for the sake of critisizing.

     

    And yes they are getting paid but its not like you are forced to pay for it.(that would be different).

     

    But yeah I guess it shows the potential of the game because if it did not most people would not waste there time with a game they do not play or played in the last 3 months. (not directed at anyone)

     

    So the jist I get is we argue and critisize because we can.

    That is an unfair statement.  As a customer, I have my rights to express disatisfaction.

    Comparison to a comparable priced good is a fair ground for complains.  Why not?  Money is a yardstick to compare things, value or whatever.  Same money charge more or less imply reasonably comparable services.  If I pay for a full fare air ticket and I was swept under the carpet for the entire flight, can you understand my rage?

    It is not that they are getting paid, we all are, in our work.  It is the fact that they price themselves higher than most of the AAA titles upon release, and yet deliver a DDD codeset.

    If it is free, like a mod, no one can complain.  Many mods are broken, buggy or not well designed, and yet no one can blow his cap over a free mod.

  • raff01raff01 Member Posts: 453

    Originally posted by Catchmeifu

    Originally posted by Picklebeast


    Originally posted by Toferio


    Originally posted by deathshroud

    well thats were i cant understand why there is a dislike of the dev team. Mainly because since beta i have not had any problems with them at all other than them being a small company and all the usual gripes that go with it. for example before i clicked the pre-order option i seen their description of small indie development team and the emphasis on a very bumpy road to release.

    Everything is relative. When I read bumpy, I expected somewhat unstable, but playable game. Not completely empty beta where all you could do is run around and hit things (block A). Same goes for current product, I think that a year is more then enough to get your stuff straight. Then again, as said, "bumpy" is a very relative term, I guess.

    After that i knew what sort of ride i was in for before i hit the pre-order button, i knew what features would be in at release becasue they listed them and all but tindrem (with some extras) got released.

    True, but you see, there is a twist to that. When I buy a car for a price of a prosche, I expect the car quality to be relative to that price, not to a budget volvo. If they charge as much (was even more at start) as AAA title, I expect the features they promised to be fully developed and functional, not stripped down to their bare core and bugged.

    If I say "Character progression feature", you would probably think of levels, talents, perks, gear, attribute points, all in one package and you would be right to do so, considering your (I assume) experince with other MMO titles. However I think you would be pissed if all you got was exp grind and a level number to follow that. That's exactly what SV did. A simple feature such as Territory control can be as much as days and days of gameplay or just a change of a tag on the house.

     SV have made a few bad decisions in the past, but as a first time developer with a low amount of funds its understandable. You all might think the small indie company with no money argument has been overused, but it is the truth. Thats what they are and still are. Trying to ignore that statement wont make it go away.

    Having no money is no excuse for bad design decisions and trial and error approach to developing, turning your customers into labrats.

    Apart from that, what annoys me most are all the tricks SV uses to stay afloat. Sure, one is required to bite in and do everything one can, but to go nazi modding on forum in order to pretend everything is alright to new customers (who do you think ordered it?), or ignore the community suggestions and continue releasing broken features instead of focusing on the core.. The list can go on, all the small stuff together contribute to SV leaving a really bad taste in the mouth, and I wish for them to not become an successful example for others to point fingers to and say "If they got away with it, so can we!".

    Then again, each one to their own. I can understand not everyone sharing my opinion about the company.

    Very well put. You sum it up quite well.

     

    I would also add the complete inability to take responsibility for their problems. The SV "blame game" is unprecidented. Nothing is ever their fault- Hell, the customers are even blamed and accused of being "carebear" or "wow kiddies" if they leave the game angry because there is no sandbox here, game is nearly unplayable, there are no real goals and its a PVP deathmatch.

     

    When will we get a real sandbox game? If this is the spiritual succesor to UO than I am the King of England.

    Well at least there giving it a shot. You guys seem to know all the insid goss and what not so you must be able to tell us the real story because I doubt it is  not as black a white as it looks.

     

    Maybe you guys are the local shop assistances or maybe your ibm programmers I dont know.

     

    I understand these are your views but it sounds like to me you guys know how to do it better.

     

    So the real question is could you do it better?

    dude just WTF? No I couldn't do it better, but guess what we are the customers, we are no devs we don't have to "be able to do it better", we also have jobs, in which we probably do better than SV tho.

    I am an IT Manager for a big lawfirm. I do my job well, and when a friggin server fails and the customers (lawyers in my case) can't work properly cause of that do you really think my response should be "I know it sucks, but would you do it better?"

    If ever I'd say that I'd get fired and rightfully, cause guess what, its my job to fix server and network problems so that they can work, THEY PAY ME TO BE GOOD AT IT !

    Just like players are customers who pay the people at SV to make a good game and fix bugs so that they can play.

    "could you do it better" isn't the real question, its not even a legitimate question, its the lamest , last resort words of a helpless fanboy trying to troll his way through the forums because he ran out of arguments long time ago.

    If you wish to debate among us, then at least come with something.

  • BetelBetel Member Posts: 365

    Deathshroud -

     

    You keep complaining that the mods here are somehow in the pocket of those that dislike SV and that you get a disproportionate number of warnings and a single ban.You've made this allegation several times here and also on the MO forums.

     

    You said you have 4 warning and 1 ban in 6 months or so, well check this out  -

     

    image

     

    The post contained in the lower half is one of the ones I got a ban for. Hardly controversial and didn't attack posters personally, but I still got a ban. It's their forum and their rules so I am not complaining about it, but don't pretend you are being singled out for some kind of punishment because you support SV as it is simply not true.

     

    It is also especially ironic given the logs from the MO IRC. You know which logs I mean ;)

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