And why in the world do they have to mention STORY......again.....when they're talking about PvP? What does that have to do with PVP? I swear if Bioware doesnt throw in the word "Story" or "Storyline" into every comment they make about the game, even when it doesnt apply, I think their heads might catch on fire and explode.
Looking at the particular quote you cared to post, and how you're hammering on it when they use the word 'story', I'd say yes, you're reading too much into it, and seeing only what you want to see.
Give it a rest, they explained how they regarded PvP and what their priorities are, which is making all classes are effective in pvp combat including tanks, and not trying to hunt down a 100% perfect balance in pvp, which frankly no MMORPG has even years after they're released. There's no such thing as 100% perfect balance or each class being 100% equally strong or effective in pvp combat, there's only constant changing and tweaking.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
QUOTE: "Sure, I mean it’s perfectly balanced, Bill. Seriously though, we do track it all. We work very closely with all the other teams, and we have months of testing feedback too. So we’re aware of when things don’t seem to pan out as they should, but really our focus is the theme: storyline, the war between two sides, and the combat as well. So really we just want to make sure that each class feels useful in PVP, and that they serve their roles. If we can do that first, we can worry about tweaking skills down the road."
Am I reading too much into this? Or am I reading basically, " PvP is unbalanced as all get out at the moment ". Maybe thats to be expected. Being that the game is still being developed. Im wondering what "down the road" really means. And they're focusing on right now making sure each class feels useful in PvP. Im glad they at least are concerned with not having entirely useless classes regarding PVP. Thats a plus I guess. Ahem.....
And why in the world do they have to mention STORY......again.....when they're talking about PvP? What does that have to do with PVP? I swear if Bioware doesnt throw in the word "Story" or "Storyline" into every comment they make about the game, even when it doesnt apply, I think their heads might catch on fire and explode.
They mentioned storyline as in war betwenn the two sides. Who knows what kind of storylines they are talking about. maybe they are trying to give some meaning to PVP and not just an excuse for bashing each others head in.
Quick question for the fans: Does this game play like a "standard" mmo in terms of zones and areas (like Everquest where each planet is a large shared zone with quest hubs and towns) or more like STO (where each planet is a small group / mission only instance dungeon and theres no real shared land) ?
p.s. not the game in general, just the zones / areas
there are 17 planets that are larger shared zones where you can run around finding random people like in other standard mmos. 11 of these plaents are shared between the factions(the 4 starter and 2 capital worlds are faction locked)
and for the thing about the 10 percent difference between gear, here is the quote from the fansite summit where it was mentioned:
Tom from TOR-Talk: I was just wondering is PvP going to be more based upon gear than skill, is it going to be vice-versa, or is there going to be a good balance of both?
Gabe Amatangelo: So the matchmaking system we have is dynamic. It tries to match premades against premades and number of healers against number of healers, those kind of things. It does a bunch of different magic tries to bring them together and be an equal match, and then it does a bolster, and it brings everyone to, our goal is to bring everyone to at least 80% effectiveness of one another, so level spectrum and gear is going to make up that other 20% difference. So then, gear basically is about a 10% difference, so we do want to carrot PvP players to earn that gear and get an edge but it's not going to be like a 50% difference, so skill is going to have a big part and a bigger part. It's not going to be like, hey I've got my full set of PvP gear, you have your full set of PvE gear, bam one shot, get out of PvP. No it's not going to be that, but it is going to be if you go toe-to-toe equal skill everything remaining equal, you're going to have the 10% edge, so skill is going to play a bigger part than I think most people are used to seeing.
So the whole PvP system is a identical copy of WoW's PvP system.Interesting.I have not read anything about this game that doesn't scream " Space WoW". Which isn't a bad thing .WoW was great.Probably still is, havn't played it in a longg time.But this definately is gonna draw heavy whining from the crowds , if they log in to Star Wars and it is just like WoW.
So the whole PvP system is a identical copy of WoW's PvP system.Interesting.I have not read anything about this game that doesn't scream " Space WoW". Which isn't a bad thing .WoW was great.Probably still is, havn't played it in a longg time.But this definately is gonna draw heavy whining from the crowds , if they log in to Star Wars and it is just like WoW.
It isn't an identical copy of WoW's PvP which, really, you'd know if you'd read about all the PvP elements. SWTOR will be a themepark MMO, if that means to some people that a game is 'just like WoW' and that all themepark MMO's are just like WoW, then so be it. I guess that for people who dislike themepark MMO's or who have burnt themselves out or grown tired and sick of themepark MMO gameplay, that all themepark MMO's are 'just like WoW'.
However, the majority of MMO gamers can I think clearly distinguish the different aspects in gameplay from one themepark MMO to another.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
well then why not come out and something like that in the interview, they are too busy playing hide the ball. just come out and say something like that then, sorry every interview i see with them, and granted im not reading every single thing about swtor like i used to, that quit when i realized they were going to have gear gating and gear grinds.
but every single interview lately is this:
we have dungeon running for gear.
we have instanced battlegrounds for gear.
and our version of open world pvp is some world we have set up with objectives that you get..............wait for it................................... more stuff to get more gear.
just come out and say hey, if you want to fight just go find somebody and fight, not this well you can if your flagged, or you can almost always fight other players. what the hell is almost always anyway, can i fight or not, that is what i want to know.
meh, doesnt matter because the end game gear grind probably has turned this game off for me, i guess ill wait and see how it goes before i make a decision but most of their interviews i just get turned off more and more. this game should have released a year ago when i would have bought it for sure, now the more information they give the more i want to run away as fast as i can.
They are coming out and saying what you want, but you aren't listening. In fact they are saying what you want AND here's more you can do with pvp, too. Their pvp servers work like every other mmo's pvp servers, in that they autoflag you for open world pvp. You also get the pvp lakes and warzones, if you don't want them then just don't ever enter one. Problem solved.
I hate to be the one pointing a finger at it, but....
ladders when PvP gear is worst than PvR Raid gear ?
I still can't get my head around the fact that they don't have separate kinds of gear in the game, 10% better gear is still 10% better
So if my attack and defensive value is now 110 instead of 100 thanks to PvP gear, while your atttack and defensive value is still only 100 because you do not have the PvP gear, you think that won't be significant between two equal PvP players? Granted, I can see the PvP players whining when they gets mashed anyways by someone with a higher degree of skill, but among equal players that 10% will be a pretty big factor.
It really depends on how scaling with abilities works with this game. I hate how game companies don't look down the road with abilities/combos/talent builds and end up nerfing everything in sight. Hopefully they've given this game some thought in this area and have allowed it some room to grow.
Honestly I could care less if I'm hitting for 25 damage/50 on a crit (made up numbers of course) at max level and when the expansion comes out its 35/65. Too many games have gone from 25/50 to 150/300 in the next expansion and that really screws things up (imo).
So the whole PvP system is a identical copy of WoW's PvP system.Interesting.I have not read anything about this game that doesn't scream " Space WoW". Which isn't a bad thing .WoW was great.Probably still is, havn't played it in a longg time.But this definately is gonna draw heavy whining from the crowds , if they log in to Star Wars and it is just like WoW.
It isn't an identical copy of WoW's PvP which, really, you'd know if you'd read about all the PvP elements. SWTOR will be a themepark MMO, if that means to some people that a game is 'just like WoW' and that all themepark MMO's are just like WoW, then so be it. I guess that for people who dislike themepark MMO's or who have burnt themselves out or grown tired and sick of themepark MMO gameplay, that all themepark MMO's are 'just like WoW'.
However, the majority of MMO gamers can I think clearly distinguish the different aspects in gameplay from one themepark MMO to another.
Its pointless trying to get this across to someone like that, some people you just can't reach.
QUOTE: "Sure, I mean it’s perfectly balanced, Bill. Seriously though, we do track it all. We work very closely with all the other teams, and we have months of testing feedback too. So we’re aware of when things don’t seem to pan out as they should, but really our focus is the theme: storyline, the war between two sides, and the combat as well. So really we just want to make sure that each class feels useful in PVP, and that they serve their roles. If we can do that first, we can worry about tweaking skills down the road."
Am I reading too much into this? Or am I reading basically, " PvP is unbalanced as all get out at the moment ". Maybe thats to be expected. Being that the game is still being developed. Im wondering what "down the road" really means. And they're focusing on right now making sure each class feels useful in PvP. Im glad they at least are concerned with not having entirely useless classes regarding PVP. Thats a plus I guess. Ahem.....
And why in the world do they have to mention STORY......again.....when they're talking about PvP? What does that have to do with PVP? I swear if Bioware doesnt throw in the word "Story" or "Storyline" into every comment they make about the game, even when it doesnt apply, I think their heads might catch on fire and explode.
PVP is constantly a balancing act, everything I have read from people who have played the pvp portion states it is pretty well balanced. And they mention story about as many times Arenanet mentions dynamic.
"So we’re aware of when things don’t seem to pan out as they should, but really our focus is the theme: storyline, the war between two sides, and the combat as well. So really we just want to make sure that each class feels useful in PVP, and that they serve their roles. If we can do that first, we can worry about tweaking skills down the road."
Means that at some point two or three months down the road they will release a patch that screws a percentage of the playerbase that has invested their time and money, Ragers will flame, Fanbois will defend and the game will suffer. Game companies should realise that in any mmo with pvp in any form the balance should be the foundation of the system not the "polish".
Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA,LOTRO, SWTOR... Gw2 on Deck
"So we’re aware of when things don’t seem to pan out as they should, but really our focus is the theme: storyline, the war between two sides, and the combat as well. So really we just want to make sure that each class feels useful in PVP, and that they serve their roles. If we can do that first, we can worry about tweaking skills down the road."
Means that at some point two or three months down the road they will release a patch that screws a percentage of the playerbase that has invested their time and money, Ragers will flame, Fanbois will defend and the game will suffer. Game companies should realise that in any mmo with pvp in any form the balance should be the foundation of the system not the "polish".
Easier said than done, any change they make to a skill or talent, impacts not only the pvp aspect of that class but the pve portion as well.
and for the thing about the 10 percent difference between gear, here is the quote from the fansite summit where it was mentioned:
Tom from TOR-Talk: I was just wondering is PvP going to be more based upon gear than skill, is it going to be vice-versa, or is there going to be a good balance of both?
Gabe Amatangelo: So the matchmaking system we have is dynamic. It tries to match premades against premades and number of healers against number of healers, those kind of things. It does a bunch of different magic tries to bring them together and be an equal match, and then it does a bolster, and it brings everyone to, our goal is to bring everyone to at least 80% effectiveness of one another, so level spectrum and gear is going to make up that other 20% difference. So then, gear basically is about a 10% difference, so we do want to carrot PvP players to earn that gear and get an edge but it's not going to be like a 50% difference, so skill is going to have a big part and a bigger part. It's not going to be like, hey I've got my full set of PvP gear, you have your full set of PvE gear, bam one shot, get out of PvP. No it's not going to be that, but it is going to be if you go toe-to-toe equal skill everything remaining equal, you're going to have the 10% edge, so skill is going to play a bigger part than I think most people are used to seeing.
That is also an old quote from May 2011
This is from the interview at PAX. It states that PVE is the best gear and PVP gear is the next best. The difference between them is 10%. Maybe PVP gear will still be better in PVP even though the PVE gear is 10% better.
8:54p - DE: The tier right under that, that you're going to need to go get into that Operation, you're going to come see me (the crafter).
8:54p - GA: There are several different slots, and there are some slots that remain specific for the crafters to help with the best PvE and PvP gear. The difference between the PvP and PvE gear is around 10%. And crafting can help support that in a couple of the slots. And we're trying around in testing just to figure out specifically what slots those are
JO: The best gear in the game is going to come from the PvE Operations. So if you want to have the best gear in the game, you have to do Operations. You can also get gear that is nearly as good, but more specialized, from the PvP game. Those are our two highest stat gear and they're also the gear that we've reserved some of the best appearances for.
Age of quote doesn't really matter, especially if it's as recent as a few months back.
This is what has been stated elsewhere:
PVP gear will come with a "PVP Stat." This stat will increase a character's damage, damage absorption, and healing effectiveness specifically in PVP - Darth Hater
It was stated that PVP gear will be, at most, 10% better for PVP then comparable PVE gear. This limit is in place to give PVP focused players a boost while still letting non-PVPers compete. - Darth Hater
So, PvP gear will be best for PvP situations, because of the PvP stat that's tacked to PvP gear.
Originally posted by Prankster
Game companies should realise that in any mmo with pvp in any form the balance should be the foundation of the system not the "polish".
There's no such thing as perfect balance between classes in MMO's and PvP. Everyone who has been into MMO's for 5-10 years knows that it has always been a neverending ongoing process of tweaking and finetuning, especially since MMO's aren't solid-state environments and there'll always be some FotM's that rule supreme, or superior enough for other players to either copy blindly or complain about.
Or to paraphrase what someone once said, 'how can it be perfect content and a PvP heaven? There's people in it, no heaven is possible with them.'
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
PVP gear will come with a "PVP Stat." This stat will increase a character's damage, damage absorption, and healing effectiveness specifically in PVP - Darth Hater
It was stated that PVP gear will be, at most, 10% better for PVP then comparable PVE gear. This limit is in place to give PVP focused players a boost while still letting non-PVPers compete. - Darth Hater
I'm glad they went with an all around boost rather than straight up absorption.
because this is a story based mmo. Everything u do has story in it. pvp has a reason for it. on illum u are fighting for control because thats where lightsaber chrystals come from
on the othe 10 planets with world pvp lakes im sure they have there reasons u fight for them also.
thats not a bad thing it acutally makes me an anit pvp guy wanna pvp. i have pvp in wow. the cinematic storytelling aspects make me wanna try it.
the fact that while alderaan is a resource capture map like arathi doesnt matter to me becaue u are shooting down a ship and not just getting resources for holding something makes it much more intersting to me
my fav bg in wow was alterac where we got to kill some elite general why because u had a point there were other things tht counted but if u beat that damn elite u won. period .
huttball may be a flag based pvp map but the fact u have traps and a game instead of just get a flag go back to base capture flag again makes it a much more interesting take on capture the flag.
and world pvp having objectives and a point makes world pvp matter to me more then it does in wow where world pvp means some max level ganks me while im leveling a 20 and camps me
if u want to pvp anywhere join a pvp server if u want to just do it in lakes then join a pve server which is what im doing
so say what u will but story is important to bioware because thats what they are known for.
Age of quote doesn't really matter, especially if it's as recent as a few months back.
The age of the quote is very relevent , especialy if its a few months old. Many things have changed in this game from what was originaly stated. What I stated is only a week old and more reliable than anything said a few months ago. It says PVE gear is better than PVP gear. Though it doesnt specificaly say if its better in PVP as well. I hope you all are right and PVP gear is 10% better in PVP than PVE gear, it would only make sense to go that route, but that Q&A has casted doubts that that is how it is going to work. I am not going to argue the point because I am not 100% that I am correct. I am just relaying the most recent information.
The age of the quote is very relevent , especialy if its a few months old. Many things have changed in this game from what was originaly stated. What I stated is only a week old and more reliable than anything said a few months ago. It says PVE gear is better than PVP gear. Though it doesnt specificaly say if its better in PVP as well. I hope you all are right and PVP gear is 10% better in PVP than PVE gear, it would only make sense to go that route, but that Q&A has casted doubts that that is how it is going to work. I am not going to argue the point because I am not 100% that I am correct. I am just relaying the most recent information.
There is a PvP only stat that MMO just posted above. So, no doubt PvP gear will be better for PvP.
On a seperate note... Not having seen them in any of the PvP gameplay videos, I completely forgot about companions! They will definately add some interesting factors to PvP. This is assuming they will still be usable in it.
The age of the quote is very relevent , especialy if its a few months old. Many things have changed in this game from what was originaly stated. What I stated is only a week old and more reliable than anything said a few months ago. It says PVE gear is better than PVP gear. Though it doesnt specificaly say if its better in PVP as well. I hope you all are right and PVP gear is 10% better in PVP than PVE gear, it would only make sense to go that route, but that Q&A has casted doubts that that is how it is going to work. I am not going to argue the point because I am not 100% that I am correct. I am just relaying the most recent information.
You fail to see how those quotes do not contradict eachother, PvP gear is better in PvP situations, but the best of the normal gear is better all around. Different stats for PvP and PvE situations, at least for the PvP gear. It's not as if this has never been done in MMO's before.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I still can't believe people actually buy this instanced and staged pvp crap.
Sad.
If I was an MMO developer I'd be throwing up my hands and screaming "I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WANT ANYMORE!!!" It seems like some people are never ever satisfied no matter what a developer gives them.
I think the PvP looks great. It'll possibly be the best PvP an MMO has ever featured with lots of options and activities.
Are you serious? Where the heck have you been since 2004?
Since WoW, we have gotten the following BG / BS clones:
SWG: NGE, EQ2 PvP BG Revamp, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, Aion, RIFT, etc.
SAME CRAP SAME CRAP SAME CRAP.
Throwing your arms up in confusion? "WOW"
They're throwing features at you so you can play the game in many different ways and so you can do many different in-game activities, and you are denouncing them for it. That does not make sense.
They've given you open world PvP, you can fight random dudes on 10 planets far away from any "designated PvP areas" if you want.
They've given you "PvP lakes," with activities and objectives. You can avoid these, or play with them if you want.
They've given you a whole PvP planet with objectives and activities. You can also just engage in world PvP while there too.
They've given you battlegrounds, where you can take part in specific battles and activities. You don't ever have to step foot in them if you don't want to.
Not sure about this one, but they might have given you arenas as well.
I'm sorry, but Bioware is giving us as many PvP choices as they can, you can avoid every single one of these PvP styles except for your chosen one, no one is forcing you to play battlegrounds, no one is forcing you to do anything.
Your idea of what good PvP is sounds incredibly dull to me, my idea of fun PvP might feel fake and contrived to you, but the good news is that we don't ever have to engage in the others' chosen style of PvP at all.
And that is why I would be throwing up my hands and saying "I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WANT ANYMORE!" Because instead of saying "I'm looking forward to the open world PvP I know will be in the game because I actually read this article and others that have been posted in this thread and they all said there would be open world PvP" you are complaining because they put MORE PvP options in the game and you happen to dislike a few of them.
They're throwing features at you so you can play the game in many different ways and so you can do many different in-game activities, and you are denouncing them for it. That does not make sense.
They've given you open world PvP, you can fight random dudes on 10 planets far away from any "designated PvP areas" if you want.
They've given you "PvP lakes," with activities and objectives. You can avoid these, or play with them if you want.
They've given you a whole PvP planet with objectives and activities. You can also just engage in world PvP while there too.
They've given you battlegrounds, where you can take part in specific battles and activities. You don't ever have to step foot in them if you don't want to.
Not sure about this one, but they might have given you arenas as well.
I'm sorry, but Bioware is giving us as many PvP choices as they can, you can avoid every single one of these PvP styles except for your chosen one, no one is forcing you to play battlegrounds, no one is forcing you to do anything.
Your idea of what good PvP is sounds incredibly dull to me, my idea of fun PvP might feel fake and contrived to you, but the good news is that we don't ever have to engage in the others' chosen style of PvP at all.
And that is why I would be throwing up my hands and saying "I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WANT ANYMORE!" Because instead of saying "I'm looking forward to the open world PvP I know will be in the game because I actually read this article and others that have been posted in this thread and they all said there would be open world PvP" you are complaining because they put MORE PvP options in the game and you happen to dislike a few of them.
Maybe that is why people are calling it "WoW with lightsabers" because it has raiding and BGs? The game can give you anything you might want to do at endgame but if those choices include BGs and raiding then it's an automatic WoW Clone and will fail. Oh well... They can plug their ears and scream, "WoW Clone!" all they want. From what I've seen and heard, I will enjoy the shit out of this game.
People who hold into certain quotes and make them absolute and irrevocable truths make me smile. They are funny.
Now, others have tried to explain it, so I am going to give it a shot as well to see if we can get the message through:
If you go into an Operation, a.k.a PvE raids_____
Wearing PvE gear, you will perform 10% better statswise than people wearing PvP gear against computer controlled enemies.
Wearing PvP gear, you will perform 10% worse statswise than people wearing PvE gear against computer controlled enemies.
If you go into Warzones, a.k.a PvP zones, and/or Open World PvP situations_____
Wearing PvE gear, you will perform 10% worse statwise than people wearing PvP gear against human controlled enemies.
Wearing PvP gear, you will perform 10% better statwise than people wearing PvE gear against human controlled enemies.
Ok. That was my best try at it.
And to the ones not happy with World PvP, answer me this:
What is stoping you from gathering a large ammount of people from your faction, flaging yourself if you are on a PvE server or just go for it if you are on a PvP server, and then go and assault a high level Outpost of even a City (not Capital Worlds nor Origing Worlds because we now you can not travel to those if you are from the oposite faction), kill all the NPC guards, kill any player from the oposing faction who dares oppose you, kill all other NPCs, and just take over the place and just keep killing every living thing you don't like?
I can see this endevour as something fun to do for PvP enthusiastics, and a shitload of Merc rewards from doing so. You could even coordinate your whole server to mantain domain over that place for a couple of hours... No. Make that for a couple of days.
With all the options I see implemented in this game, I think that the major restriction in this game is the players imagination.
What is stoping you from gathering a large ammount of people from your faction, flaging yourself if you are on a PvE server or just go for it if you are on a PvP server, and then go and assault a high level Outpost of even a City (not Capital Worlds nor Origing Worlds because we now you can not travel to those if you are from the oposite faction), kill all the NPC guards, kill any player from the oposing faction who dares oppose you, kill all other NPCs, and just take over the place and just keep killing every living thing you don't like?
One or two people may think this is awesome - perhaps even a small guild - but to coordinate the required number of players for any significant length of time is nearly impossible. Why? It gets boring. Players will naturally shift to PvP activities which offer instant action, then complain that world PvP, as you've described, it is "dead" or "nonexistant."
What is stoping you from gathering a large ammount of people from your faction, flaging yourself if you are on a PvE server or just go for it if you are on a PvP server, and then go and assault a high level Outpost of even a City (not Capital Worlds nor Origing Worlds because we now you can not travel to those if you are from the oposite faction), kill all the NPC guards, kill any player from the oposing faction who dares oppose you, kill all other NPCs, and just take over the place and just keep killing every living thing you don't like?
One or two people may think this is awesome - perhaps even a small guild - but to coordinate the required number of players for any significant length of time is nearly impossible. Why? It gets boring. Players will naturally shift to PvP activities which offer instant action, then complain that world PvP, as you've described, it is "dead" or "nonexistant."
This isn't WoW. I don't believe you can kill quest givers.
so world pvp is a set area with pvp objectives. sounds like a battleground to me, just not instanced maybe. what about just being able to fight people. the actual name for this game should be Star Wars: The Old Republic playing Mini Games. seems like every single thing in there game has a mini game associated with it to earn tokens for loot. world pvp as a minigame really isnt world pvp imo. just my view on it, too bad bioware screwed this up for me at least, I think they could have done so much better than WOW but apparantly they dont think so.
Where are you getting this from? I read the same article, and this is not what I took away from it at all. They're saying "some places have world PVP objectives." And you're reading "all PVP in this game will be minigame-based." Umm, hell no....
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What is stoping you from gathering a large ammount of people from your faction, flaging yourself if you are on a PvE server or just go for it if you are on a PvP server, and then go and assault a high level Outpost of even a City (not Capital Worlds nor Origing Worlds because we now you can not travel to those if you are from the oposite faction), kill all the NPC guards, kill any player from the oposing faction who dares oppose you, kill all other NPCs, and just take over the place and just keep killing every living thing you don't like?
One or two people may think this is awesome - perhaps even a small guild - but to coordinate the required number of players for any significant length of time is nearly impossible. Why? It gets boring. Players will naturally shift to PvP activities which offer instant action, then complain that world PvP, as you've described, it is "dead" or "nonexistant."
This isn't WoW. I don't believe you can kill quest givers.
I'm not a PvP fan. I'm all about PvE. I was just trying to set up the coolest scenario I would think would excite a PvP zealot. And I think your last statement is absolutely true. I guess that was I was really trying to expose is that some people will always find something to complain about. No matter how much you change a game to please them, and how many options you offer them. Some people just love to complain about everything.
From this quote "On PvP servers, there is nothing to stop higher-level players from returning to lower-level planets (except starter/capital) and ganking lower-level players. The guards in the various safe areas on all planets are universally high level, to provide at least some protection for those levelling - Torocast" I would think that only the guards will be the badasses. The rest of the NPCs I would think that if they have a health bar, they can die. Quest guivers, vendors, passersby. They all should be able to bite the big one.
Comments
Looking at the particular quote you cared to post, and how you're hammering on it when they use the word 'story', I'd say yes, you're reading too much into it, and seeing only what you want to see.
Give it a rest, they explained how they regarded PvP and what their priorities are, which is making all classes are effective in pvp combat including tanks, and not trying to hunt down a 100% perfect balance in pvp, which frankly no MMORPG has even years after they're released. There's no such thing as 100% perfect balance or each class being 100% equally strong or effective in pvp combat, there's only constant changing and tweaking.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
They mentioned storyline as in war betwenn the two sides. Who knows what kind of storylines they are talking about. maybe they are trying to give some meaning to PVP and not just an excuse for bashing each others head in.
there are 17 planets that are larger shared zones where you can run around finding random people like in other standard mmos. 11 of these plaents are shared between the factions(the 4 starter and 2 capital worlds are faction locked)
and for the thing about the 10 percent difference between gear, here is the quote from the fansite summit where it was mentioned:
Tom from TOR-Talk: I was just wondering is PvP going to be more based upon gear than skill, is it going to be vice-versa, or is there going to be a good balance of both?
Gabe Amatangelo: So the matchmaking system we have is dynamic. It tries to match premades against premades and number of healers against number of healers, those kind of things. It does a bunch of different magic tries to bring them together and be an equal match, and then it does a bolster, and it brings everyone to, our goal is to bring everyone to at least 80% effectiveness of one another, so level spectrum and gear is going to make up that other 20% difference. So then, gear basically is about a 10% difference, so we do want to carrot PvP players to earn that gear and get an edge but it's not going to be like a 50% difference, so skill is going to have a big part and a bigger part. It's not going to be like, hey I've got my full set of PvP gear, you have your full set of PvE gear, bam one shot, get out of PvP. No it's not going to be that, but it is going to be if you go toe-to-toe equal skill everything remaining equal, you're going to have the 10% edge, so skill is going to play a bigger part than I think most people are used to seeing.
http://darthhater.com/2011/05/05/fan-site-summit-gabe-amatangelo-qa/
the audio of it can be found here
So the whole PvP system is a identical copy of WoW's PvP system.Interesting.I have not read anything about this game that doesn't scream " Space WoW". Which isn't a bad thing .WoW was great.Probably still is, havn't played it in a longg time.But this definately is gonna draw heavy whining from the crowds , if they log in to Star Wars and it is just like WoW.
It isn't an identical copy of WoW's PvP which, really, you'd know if you'd read about all the PvP elements. SWTOR will be a themepark MMO, if that means to some people that a game is 'just like WoW' and that all themepark MMO's are just like WoW, then so be it. I guess that for people who dislike themepark MMO's or who have burnt themselves out or grown tired and sick of themepark MMO gameplay, that all themepark MMO's are 'just like WoW'.
However, the majority of MMO gamers can I think clearly distinguish the different aspects in gameplay from one themepark MMO to another.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
They are coming out and saying what you want, but you aren't listening. In fact they are saying what you want AND here's more you can do with pvp, too. Their pvp servers work like every other mmo's pvp servers, in that they autoflag you for open world pvp. You also get the pvp lakes and warzones, if you don't want them then just don't ever enter one. Problem solved.
It really depends on how scaling with abilities works with this game. I hate how game companies don't look down the road with abilities/combos/talent builds and end up nerfing everything in sight. Hopefully they've given this game some thought in this area and have allowed it some room to grow.
Honestly I could care less if I'm hitting for 25 damage/50 on a crit (made up numbers of course) at max level and when the expansion comes out its 35/65. Too many games have gone from 25/50 to 150/300 in the next expansion and that really screws things up (imo).
Its pointless trying to get this across to someone like that, some people you just can't reach.
PVP is constantly a balancing act, everything I have read from people who have played the pvp portion states it is pretty well balanced. And they mention story about as many times Arenanet mentions dynamic.
In Bioware we trust!
This:
"So we’re aware of when things don’t seem to pan out as they should, but really our focus is the theme: storyline, the war between two sides, and the combat as well. So really we just want to make sure that each class feels useful in PVP, and that they serve their roles. If we can do that first, we can worry about tweaking skills down the road."
Means that at some point two or three months down the road they will release a patch that screws a percentage of the playerbase that has invested their time and money, Ragers will flame, Fanbois will defend and the game will suffer. Game companies should realise that in any mmo with pvp in any form the balance should be the foundation of the system not the "polish".
Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA,LOTRO, SWTOR... Gw2 on Deck
Easier said than done, any change they make to a skill or talent, impacts not only the pvp aspect of that class but the pve portion as well.
In Bioware we trust!
That is also an old quote from May 2011
This is from the interview at PAX. It states that PVE is the best gear and PVP gear is the next best. The difference between them is 10%. Maybe PVP gear will still be better in PVP even though the PVE gear is 10% better.
8:54p - DE: The tier right under that, that you're going to need to go get into that Operation, you're going to come see me (the crafter).
8:54p - GA: There are several different slots, and there are some slots that remain specific for the crafters to help with the best PvE and PvP gear. The difference between the PvP and PvE gear is around 10%. And crafting can help support that in a couple of the slots. And we're trying around in testing just to figure out specifically what slots those are
JO: The best gear in the game is going to come from the PvE Operations. So if you want to have the best gear in the game, you have to do Operations. You can also get gear that is nearly as good, but more specialized, from the PvP game. Those are our two highest stat gear and they're also the gear that we've reserved some of the best appearances for.
Age of quote doesn't really matter, especially if it's as recent as a few months back.
This is what has been stated elsewhere:
PVP gear will come with a "PVP Stat." This stat will increase a character's damage, damage absorption, and healing effectiveness specifically in PVP - Darth Hater
It was stated that PVP gear will be, at most, 10% better for PVP then comparable PVE gear. This limit is in place to give PVP focused players a boost while still letting non-PVPers compete. - Darth Hater
So, PvP gear will be best for PvP situations, because of the PvP stat that's tacked to PvP gear.
There's no such thing as perfect balance between classes in MMO's and PvP. Everyone who has been into MMO's for 5-10 years knows that it has always been a neverending ongoing process of tweaking and finetuning, especially since MMO's aren't solid-state environments and there'll always be some FotM's that rule supreme, or superior enough for other players to either copy blindly or complain about.
Or to paraphrase what someone once said, 'how can it be perfect content and a PvP heaven? There's people in it, no heaven is possible with them.'
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'm glad they went with an all around boost rather than straight up absorption.
because this is a story based mmo. Everything u do has story in it. pvp has a reason for it. on illum u are fighting for control because thats where lightsaber chrystals come from
on the othe 10 planets with world pvp lakes im sure they have there reasons u fight for them also.
thats not a bad thing it acutally makes me an anit pvp guy wanna pvp. i have pvp in wow. the cinematic storytelling aspects make me wanna try it.
the fact that while alderaan is a resource capture map like arathi doesnt matter to me becaue u are shooting down a ship and not just getting resources for holding something makes it much more intersting to me
my fav bg in wow was alterac where we got to kill some elite general why because u had a point there were other things tht counted but if u beat that damn elite u won. period .
huttball may be a flag based pvp map but the fact u have traps and a game instead of just get a flag go back to base capture flag again makes it a much more interesting take on capture the flag.
and world pvp having objectives and a point makes world pvp matter to me more then it does in wow where world pvp means some max level ganks me while im leveling a 20 and camps me
if u want to pvp anywhere join a pvp server if u want to just do it in lakes then join a pve server which is what im doing
so say what u will but story is important to bioware because thats what they are known for.
The age of the quote is very relevent , especialy if its a few months old. Many things have changed in this game from what was originaly stated. What I stated is only a week old and more reliable than anything said a few months ago. It says PVE gear is better than PVP gear. Though it doesnt specificaly say if its better in PVP as well. I hope you all are right and PVP gear is 10% better in PVP than PVE gear, it would only make sense to go that route, but that Q&A has casted doubts that that is how it is going to work. I am not going to argue the point because I am not 100% that I am correct. I am just relaying the most recent information.
There is a PvP only stat that MMO just posted above. So, no doubt PvP gear will be better for PvP.
On a seperate note... Not having seen them in any of the PvP gameplay videos, I completely forgot about companions! They will definately add some interesting factors to PvP. This is assuming they will still be usable in it.
You fail to see how those quotes do not contradict eachother, PvP gear is better in PvP situations, but the best of the normal gear is better all around. Different stats for PvP and PvE situations, at least for the PvP gear. It's not as if this has never been done in MMO's before.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
They're throwing features at you so you can play the game in many different ways and so you can do many different in-game activities, and you are denouncing them for it. That does not make sense.
They've given you open world PvP, you can fight random dudes on 10 planets far away from any "designated PvP areas" if you want.
They've given you "PvP lakes," with activities and objectives. You can avoid these, or play with them if you want.
They've given you a whole PvP planet with objectives and activities. You can also just engage in world PvP while there too.
They've given you battlegrounds, where you can take part in specific battles and activities. You don't ever have to step foot in them if you don't want to.
Not sure about this one, but they might have given you arenas as well.
I'm sorry, but Bioware is giving us as many PvP choices as they can, you can avoid every single one of these PvP styles except for your chosen one, no one is forcing you to play battlegrounds, no one is forcing you to do anything.
Your idea of what good PvP is sounds incredibly dull to me, my idea of fun PvP might feel fake and contrived to you, but the good news is that we don't ever have to engage in the others' chosen style of PvP at all.
And that is why I would be throwing up my hands and saying "I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WANT ANYMORE!" Because instead of saying "I'm looking forward to the open world PvP I know will be in the game because I actually read this article and others that have been posted in this thread and they all said there would be open world PvP" you are complaining because they put MORE PvP options in the game and you happen to dislike a few of them.
Maybe that is why people are calling it "WoW with lightsabers" because it has raiding and BGs? The game can give you anything you might want to do at endgame but if those choices include BGs and raiding then it's an automatic WoW Clone and will fail. Oh well... They can plug their ears and scream, "WoW Clone!" all they want. From what I've seen and heard, I will enjoy the shit out of this game.
People who hold into certain quotes and make them absolute and irrevocable truths make me smile. They are funny.
Now, others have tried to explain it, so I am going to give it a shot as well to see if we can get the message through:
If you go into an Operation, a.k.a PvE raids_____
Wearing PvE gear, you will perform 10% better statswise than people wearing PvP gear against computer controlled enemies.
Wearing PvP gear, you will perform 10% worse statswise than people wearing PvE gear against computer controlled enemies.
If you go into Warzones, a.k.a PvP zones, and/or Open World PvP situations_____
Wearing PvE gear, you will perform 10% worse statwise than people wearing PvP gear against human controlled enemies.
Wearing PvP gear, you will perform 10% better statwise than people wearing PvE gear against human controlled enemies.
Ok. That was my best try at it.
And to the ones not happy with World PvP, answer me this:
What is stoping you from gathering a large ammount of people from your faction, flaging yourself if you are on a PvE server or just go for it if you are on a PvP server, and then go and assault a high level Outpost of even a City (not Capital Worlds nor Origing Worlds because we now you can not travel to those if you are from the oposite faction), kill all the NPC guards, kill any player from the oposing faction who dares oppose you, kill all other NPCs, and just take over the place and just keep killing every living thing you don't like?
I can see this endevour as something fun to do for PvP enthusiastics, and a shitload of Merc rewards from doing so. You could even coordinate your whole server to mantain domain over that place for a couple of hours... No. Make that for a couple of days.
With all the options I see implemented in this game, I think that the major restriction in this game is the players imagination.
One or two people may think this is awesome - perhaps even a small guild - but to coordinate the required number of players for any significant length of time is nearly impossible. Why? It gets boring. Players will naturally shift to PvP activities which offer instant action, then complain that world PvP, as you've described, it is "dead" or "nonexistant."
This isn't WoW. I don't believe you can kill quest givers.
Where are you getting this from? I read the same article, and this is not what I took away from it at all. They're saying "some places have world PVP objectives." And you're reading "all PVP in this game will be minigame-based." Umm, hell no....
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@Comnitus:
I'm not a PvP fan. I'm all about PvE. I was just trying to set up the coolest scenario I would think would excite a PvP zealot. And I think your last statement is absolutely true. I guess that was I was really trying to expose is that some people will always find something to complain about. No matter how much you change a game to please them, and how many options you offer them. Some people just love to complain about everything.
@EijiBayushi
From this quote "On PvP servers, there is nothing to stop higher-level players from returning to lower-level planets (except starter/capital) and ganking lower-level players. The guards in the various safe areas on all planets are universally high level, to provide at least some protection for those levelling - Torocast" I would think that only the guards will be the badasses. The rest of the NPCs I would think that if they have a health bar, they can die. Quest guivers, vendors, passersby. They all should be able to bite the big one.