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GW2 - World PvP?
yyiri
Member UncommonPosts: 35
I played GW1 since Beta and I have to say that the PvP is a really strong aspect of the GW franchise.
What concerns me with all the recent news on the PvP system in GW2 is that they seem to have built upon the PvP platform in GW1, such as customizable deathmatches, instant PvP (ala battlegrounds), GvG and so on.
There has been no mention of persistent world PvP and this is a big letdown for me. I know that they have a World v World v World PvP system, but this isn't what I mean by persistent world PvP. Players from DAoC will understand what persistent world PvP is. Basically, its similar to Aion's Abyss, where theres a mix of PvE (with good rewards), but primarily the zone is for PvP. What I gather from the information on World PvP is that this zone is reset every month or so?
What do you guys think?
Comments
No world pvp in a persistent world like i did in wow is a major let down...
swtor has it..so if the rest is good ill play it instead of gw2
WvWvW is persistent (for two weeks) PvP in a large area with a large number of players and all kinds of PvE-like objectives thought (capturing mines, escorting npcs, taking over keeps and things like that).
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_PvP
World PvP in the common sense of the word will not be added. Anet believes in cooperative PvE and consenual PvP. Besides, lore-wise there are no logical factions and with the threat of the Elder Dragons it makes no sense that the races should fight each other.
What you have described is exactly what WvWvW PvP is - a huge zone consisting of four maps with some PvE (including dynamic events and NPCs to be killed/protect) but mostly dedicated to PvP.
The zones are reset every 2 weeks (not monthly - though that is only the current setup and may be subject to change, as it used to be reset weekly) and servers are pitted against each other based on their performance in the previous matchups. Also, the winning servers win boons and things for their entire server in PvE.
You're funny.
In the same breath you voice your displeasure with WvW and praise DAoC. Actually WvW has been described as DAoC 2.0 with huge zones and added depth of having resources, dynamic events that play direct part in PvP etc. Plus you have the added benefit of bi-weekly server rotations which provide even more balancing and realm pride (read server/shard pride in this case) than ever before.
DAoC also didn't have "open world PvP". Its persistent world PvP took place in the designated zone while a larger portion of the game world was PvE only. It is exactly the same in GW2 with the only difference that shards take place of racial factions now and I'm more than fine with that.
It seems to me your only gripe is that WvW setup is not "permanent" permanent. Well in part I share your sentiment but on the other hand you have to admit that after a time these permanent conflicts do tend to get a bit stale, what with imbalances and permanent alliances. This is an interesting experiment which tries to combine the best of both worlds and, on the other hand, I'm sure we'll get our true sense of permanence once different servers get their reputations... "Oh no, we're playing against server XYZ?! Jeez, they have one of the the best strategists there." and "Playing with XYZ? There's a thief there I'd really like to gank to no end for what he did to my necro!"
Everyone else has pretty much covered it on World vs. World vs. World.
Because some people will need even more clarity, let me add a few comments. (ANet hasn't done the official reveal on WvWvW yet, so what we know is based on the few details they have shared).
World Vs. World Vs. World takes place in a special four zone area of the game world. (One for each is a contested "home field" for each world, connecting to a central zone where the other three connect).
Every two weeks, each World (PVE server) is matched up against two other worlds for this special mass PVP persistent form of warfare.
The matches will be made based on performance in the previous two week session, with the goal of matching worlds of roughly equal prowess against each other.
At the end of the two week war, the winners of each trio will be determined and the winning worlds will receive server wide PVE buffs for the next two weeks. The WvWvW zones are reset. New matchups are immediately determined and the new war starts up.
There will be keeps, supply lines, resources and other strategic elements in WvWvW that will all contribute to each world's score in determining a winner. Guilds will be able to capture keeps and fly their banner on the captured keep. The owning guild will be able to spend a guild specific currency to fortify the defenses, if they wish. (We don't know what conditions reward a keep to a particular guild at this point).
There will also be PVE content in the WvWvW zones, so there will be a benefit for holding territoty for your World beyond the victory points.
You earn XP and loot in WvWvW and a player could level a character from 1 to 80 entirely in World vs. World.
You will not loot from a dead enemy's inventory, but you may get game assigned loot for such kills.
Combat is free-for-all only against characters from the other worlds, you don't ever fight your own.
Characters from the connected worlds can not enter the PVE only sections of the worlds they are fighting.
You enter World vs. World with your PVE equipment and any loot and XP earned there goes with you back to the PVE world. You also only have access to skills you have unlocked on your own, they aren't all unlocked like in Competitive PVP.
It appears that the sidekicking system will work in World vs. World, so the game will temporarily boost your effective level, but lower level characters will still be at some disadvantage due to their gear and the number of skills they have unlocked.
That's most of what we know. There is a lot we still don't know and a lot that could change.
I changed point number 12 to reflect what appears to be support from the devs that side kicking will work in World vs. World.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
That's actually not true.
CDA: Could you please explain how does sidekicking up work [in WvWvW]?
EF: It's intended to equalize things a bit, but it's not meant to make you equal too. A level 1 who is kicked up to level 80 is not as good as [“real”] level 80 player. And there's some progression in sidekicking as well. Level 1 sidekicked up to level 80 is worse than level 20 sidekicked up to level 80, which is worse than level 40 sidekicked up to level 80.
CDA: It seems that, contrary to sidekicking down, sidekicking up doesn't happen automatically and we have to find some higher level player to help us. Is that correct?
EF: No, it happens automatically, too.
Source: http://www.cdaction.pl/news-20880-5/guild-wars-2---wywiad-z-martinem-kersteinem-i-erikiem-flannumem.html
Again and again teh same subject. If you cant be or dont want to be convince, then this is not your game.
I hope they do something, so that the 3 worlds/servers home areas are not clones of each other, seeing the exact same things in the other two worlds home areas seems like it would get a little bland. In DAoC, it was cool that each home area had its own look and feel, with unique creatures ect....I hope they do something to make it so it is not always the same for everyone.
You had to kind of learn the other factions areasin DAoC, where as if they are all the same, you would just have to learn your own....Then know everyones is the same.
I dont really have anything to contribute to this conversation that hasnt already been covered but World vs World vs World is such a mouthful, why dont we use something more catchy like Tri-Server Conquest or TSC, eh?
But on the the topic of World PvP (ie; Contested Zones a-la WoW) I agree with Anets view of keeping PvP Consensual as it will breed community rather than the cesspool that the WoW Forums are with its ego-inflated tweens spamming their ganking accomplishments.
Edit: Multi-Server Conquest would probably be a better tag for it as it has more longevity than limiting it to 'Tri-Server'.
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
You guys are kinda missing the point.
A World v World v World PvP system that is reset every 2 weeks isn't going to be as IMMERSIVE as a PERSISTENT "World PvP" zone, ala DAoC - where relics are not reset every 2 weeks, instead they change hands as time passes and the population grows and fluctuates.
With a persistent zone, that is how communities develop and bonds are created among guilds. Another aspect I can't believe GW2 did not implement was Alliances. These were fantastic multi-guild circles that really built community bonds on each server.
What I'm trying to say is that people aren't going to recognize each other and communities will not be nurtured fully with a non-persistent PvP zone.
While I can understand your sentiments, this double sided coin called 'PvP' youre flipping does have two sides to it.
World PvP does have its perks, but with Anet pushing such an emphasize of community I doubt it has aplace in GW2, considering the setting and lore. It most cases World PvP boils down to two forms of combat, the Courtship Dance known as the 'Zerg' or just plain Ganking, even if you add objectives in and around the map, it just promotes more Zerging and Armchair Generals shouting their commands over General Chat.
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
WvWvW matches are persistant, they just aren't permanent.
Think of the downsides of a permanent matchup. You could be stuck with 2 other servers that completely steamroll yours, so no matter the effort, you'll always lose, forever. Or the opposite, your server is so much better that the other 2 never achieve anything, you conquer all the keeps and just sit on them, with nothing left to do.
The 2-week window means you have just enough time to achieve something and hold on to it, but you won't ever run into a dead-end situation. If you think 2 weeks is too short, let ArenaNet know. They are still tweaking it, maybe they find 3 or 4 weeks is even better.
Really? Have you played the game and decided it isn't immersive?
Did you know you can join more than one guild on one character?
It is persistent. People complaining that it resets every 2 weeks really confuse me. do they think that, because things reset every 2 weeks, that NONE of the things that happen in a community in a persistent world MMO will happen?
Lastly, who here can give me an example of how WvWvW would be better off it it didn't switch opponents every 2 weeks?
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
Having played DAOC for many many years. I was somewhat torn by the two weeks....fight then reset.A cut off of hostilitys seems to slice right through game immersion. However in DAOC I have seen seemingly endless domination by one faction or another.Which Mythic facilitates by near instant realm switching(cross realming).So the idea of a two week fight has some merit in that you get rematched with a server closer to you level of fighting skill. I could see players changing servers to get on the "better" server so this reset will reduce that play factor. I guess if you think of your server as if it were a fighter. Fighters fight a predetermined number of rounds(assuming one doesen't get taken out durring the fight). NET NET ..I can't think of a metter mechanic to keep the world vs world fights interesting .
And you're missing the point as well. Anet is not going to add World PvP, ever. The closest thing you will get is WvWvW. I hope you will find your place there and if not I hope that there are other MMO's for you (or you could try GW2's PvE and instanced PvP which will also be great).
Anet is trying to find a way to limit server switching but at the same time keep it as pain free as possible.
Ask yourself, before you make your view on this entrenched, what is it you actually LIKE about persistant open world PvP?
Is it the threat of PvP while you achieve PvE objectives? Because this offers that.
Is it the chance to hunt others as they go about their play? Because this offers that.
Is it 'always on' PvP in a huge shifting unpredictable play area that you can access any time you wish? Because this offers that.
Is it building a rep amongst your enemies? Because this, honestly, allows that.
What exactly lets you down about having your server pitched against 2 others as you level exclusively (if you so choose) in the Mysts? Better yet, your server is always matched vs other ones ability and activity wise so you don't have the imbalances we have seen in other games, and oh, it's 3 faction war.
This model, imo, is so far ahead of SWtoR's very basic 2 faction system it's not even funny.
People been calling it WvWvW to make it shorter.
Does anyone know if there are mobs in WvWvW?
Hype train -> Reality
Some people are looking for raid with a maxed out character in a lvl 20 zone...this is the sad thing.
For all who are expecting this i'll tell you two things:
1) There won't be a wolrd pvp other than the WvWvW
2)Even if they will get drunk at a party and decide to put it in an expansion if you go with a lvl 80 in a lvl 20 zone your stats will be lowered to better equalize them with the ones of other players that are lvling so you wont be able to one-shot mobs o players
We know there are dynamic events in WvWvW like being able to intercept a supply shipment from a mine to a keep. We have to assume there are miners, guards, etc.
edit: a better answer...
In WvW, at some objectives, how much will PvE play a role in taking the objectives? I know the assumptions have been that there will be NPC’s guarding some of these areas, but will it be so much that it becomes bothersome while trying to defeat players as well? What is the best recollection you have so far of a battle that featured groups fighting from.
Definitely, they play a role, but the guards are not there to kill you , the guards are there to slow you down so defenders can get there to help defend, what you’re really fighting there is the other players. While we have the guards it’s not like we have them there to kill you.
You would never for example, where you have a player and a guard coming at you, you should never choose to attack the guard instead of the player. The guard can eventually wear you down, but it’s more the guard holds you up and you have to get through the guards. They are more defensive than they are offensive.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Edit: I've found more confirmation of this and will change the list. Thanks.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
world pvp or not , you still will battle at 1 place , looking for enemy in all the world and probably found only 1 guys doing quest gank him and then what lets find other enemy? world pvp in my opinion suck i been doing raid in Rift tring to find people and we always end up battle in a certain Area, same with wow vanilla. when we battle at southshore or crossroad.
world pvp maybe but u still know where people will be at. so i think guild wars 2 is doing a good job by puting everyones in same place and have fun there.
~The only opinion that matters is your own.Everything else is just advice,~
Just a side note. I think most of us who try to use "World vs. World vs. World" or even shorten it to WvWvW are doing so, so that people new to the discussion are clear that this involves three worlds against each other. I'm sure that when the game launches, most people will shorten it and other players of the game will know what they are talking about.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
As an old DAOC player I do not have a problem with the 2 week reset of WvWvW as long as it is fun. I do not care if it is a permanent battle for an item that I fight the same group again and again over I just care if it is fun or not. And we will not know that until the game launches and we get to try it in large groups.
On a side note I find it amusing how this is brought up week after week after week.
I do hope they have pve in the WvWvW areas, they had it in DAoC, some quests went out to the RvR areas, and some of the mobs out in those areas dropped some nice rares that people would hunt for.
It wasn't something neccesary, for those that wanted to avoid RvR, but something that brought a different element to the game, which I think is great.
I just hope they don't screw up harvesting/crafting, as I am big on those areas too, I will have to try to find more out, I have been kind of hanging back till more info was available for the newer games coming out, and they were closer to launch.