In order to have a "tux" or "bikini" outfit, those art assest have to be present in game, nothing an appearance tab provides allows for that on its own, those assest have to be in the game.
They weren't in WoW to begin with either, but you can now equip such items, and going by WoW's appearance tab design:
"Appearance Tab - An additional tab in the Character pane in which a character is free to equip items in the body slots (Head, Shoulders, Chest, Shirt, Tabard, Bracers, Gloves, Belt, Pants, Boots, Cape). These items do not contribute stats or armor or any special abilities (+spellpower, agility, etc), and serve only to overwrite the model of the items equipped in the Character pane, customizing the in-game model with whatever look it is you want."
Now, it is logical that down the road, SWTOR as a popular, themepark-oriented game will have fun/holiday/etc. gear for people to mess around with. Should they choose to implement the same appearance tab system, it will result in exactly what I said in my previous post, and thus I pointed out that they would have to put limits on it.
This game will not be WoW, and I don't expect BW to let anything go and completely destroy the lore element as blizzard often does, and so I made my opinion of the system known...
That is not a problem with the appearance tab though, it is a problem with the game putting inappropriate costumes into the game. But if a game does that, it is likely because the majority of their customers want them, (i.e. they are making money off of it) and so it really isn't even a problem, but a difference in taste.
Personally I don't like those kinds of costumes either, but I'm not going to blame the appearance tab, I'm going to blame the immature player base and the game designers for catering to them (though at least they are doing it to make a buck).
2. I'd like to see it expanded to include weapons and offhands.
Does it really matter if my Sword and Shield look like some fancy fish skeleton and crazy ninja star thing?
I just want a Gladius and Wooden round shield please...
Agreed with this completely, I often find endgame weapons and such to be some of the uglist things I've ever seen, but the stats are so superior to almost anything else I can equip, that I'm forced to use them, so I'd like to be able to appearance tab those too.
Appearance tabs are just about as important to MMOs in today's games as EXP is to it. It should be included in any modern MMO. I hate looking like everyone else.
Appearance tab isn't necessary. You can look how you want to look and maintain the stats to keep you at top level with mods, which accomplishes the same thing as an appearance tab. It's just a different method to achieve the same goal, so I don't see what the problem is, or why people feel they need to have both a tab and the mods.
Appearance tab isn't necessary. You can look how you want to look and maintain the stats to keep you at top level with mods, which accomplishes the same thing as an appearance tab. It's just a different method to achieve the same goal, so I don't see what the problem is, or why people feel they need to have both a tab and the mods.
They don't...
We're saying no one really knows how exactly the mod system works.
Appearance tab isn't necessary. You can look how you want to look and maintain the stats to keep you at top level with mods, which accomplishes the same thing as an appearance tab. It's just a different method to achieve the same goal, so I don't see what the problem is, or why people feel they need to have both a tab and the mods.
They don't...
We're saying no one really knows how exactly the mod system works.
Exactly I can only assume a "mod" is going to add a piece to the existing armor thus making it look different but that is nothing like what many gamers are used togetting from an appearance tab where you can visually wear something totally different.
I kind of think along the lines of Whilan in an earlier post in that in real life we aren't afforded appearance tabs but the problem as I've seen it is that lot's of gear is designed in such a way that it's a distraction to even walk around in some of the stuff we are stuck with.
Appearance tab isn't necessary. You can look how you want to look and maintain the stats to keep you at top level with mods, which accomplishes the same thing as an appearance tab. It's just a different method to achieve the same goal, so I don't see what the problem is, or why people feel they need to have both a tab and the mods.
They don't...
We're saying no one really knows how exactly the mod system works.
Yep, and I find it very unlikely that I can take an item from say a level 10 and make it as good as an end game raid item. And in all honesty I shouldn't be able to do that. But if raid gear is the best (which seems to be what they've said for this game and is the way it works in other MMOs) and I hate the look, why should I be forced to use something of lower quality because I want to look a certain way?
I don't really understand the reasoning of not putting it in if a post has been recreated 20 times. Then again Blizzard's boards had a very long thread on a female trade prince(cess?) and what did they get? And evil backstabbing trade price who as far as I know got away with screwing players over XD. So ya never know, maybe they will add apperence tabs, maybe they wont.
Well you indirectly make a good case for BioWare implementing a Vanity tab later on because:
a) An Appearance Tab is finally coming for WoW
b) The Trade Princess idea was/is actually very popular! I remember in the beta, they added an NPC who could very well fill the Trade Princess slot in; not sure if she is still around.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
Heavy customization is a design choice, the game must support this aspect in its design.
A lot of people seam to think you can just put an appearance tab and voila. But even if putting an appearance tab isn't a big work, they are a lot of aspect in the game that must support it, i don't know like easy identification in pvp or for the level status. Its clear Bioware don't want to make that work despite the massive demand.
They are quiet a few popular post in the official forum like this one, the one i personally prefer is the demand to have some high end solo raid like content, and obviously we won't have that either.
I just don't understand game companies sometimes, they have such valuable source from their own customer i don't think there is a single industry with such a heavy communication with its customer, yet they do nothing. Not only they do nothing in the game the actually develop, but they do nothing for the next one. What a pity. Thats also something they should learn at last, mmo gamer want to enhance their game it was part of mmo sine day one, so they should really do them some favor sometime, just for the respect at least.
I do wish you guys would take this same critical eye to other games, nearly every SWTOR article on this site appears to be a well constructed critique of what they could do better, where as a glance at other games reporting (and that doesnt include the holy grail of this site that is GW2) is very positively spun, SWTORs coverage seems to be much more critical. I think this kind of critical eye is healthy for games in general but I am sad that the column inches devoted to SWTOR seem to be the only ones with a balanced view, the rest are either ultra negative or overwhelmingly positive.
Honestly the system Bioware has mentioned concerns me. Because they haven't gone into the specifics, I must assume the worst even for an outstanding developer like Bioware. I doubt it will work nearly as well as they say it does. Generally a developer keeps something under wraps if they know the details won't be well recieved, especially this close to launch.
It reminds me of a car salesman telling someone how great, outstanding, and amazing a car is so that person will buy it, but it's a piece of crap.
And just to be clear, I don't mean SWToR will be crap, just the armor customization system.
Hopefully the community will continue to be outspoken on this issue with Bioware and maybe get them to change they're silly minds. Like WoW's community did with Blizzard.
As others have already said, lack of an appearance tab in a modern MMO is a pretty big oversight for a feature not only wanted by potentional customers but is not going to effect balance in any way.
Bioware's seems to be falling into the old EQ1 era Verant and there "Vision" ideal which wasn't good for the game in any way.
The way I understand it the mods will be added into any gear we have that we like .. so if you like the look of your level 10 pants and want to keep them till you reach level 50 .. at each progression you can put in that level of mods to upgrade the equipment so it is equal at all levels ..
What will not be possible is for say .. a level 10 pair of pants with Mods of level 60 to be worn or used by a level 10 .. you might meet requirements to use the level of Mod your putting on Gear ...
From what I understand anyway .. that is why your highest level gear will be just a good as your level ten gear if you like the looks of the 10th level better due to the mods you put in ..
I do not recall the Mods changing any appearance just the stats or benefits.
Look to the stars to know HE is with us. HE hung them as markers, of times and of seasons.
The way I understand it the mods will be added into any gear we have that we like .. so if you like the look of your level 10 pants and want to keep them till you reach level 50 .. at each progression you can put in that level of mods to upgrade the equipment so it is Viable at all levels ..
What will not be possible is for say .. a level 10 pair of pants with Mods of level 60 to be worn or used by a level 10 .. you might meet requirements to use the level of Mod your putting on Gear ...
From what I understand anyway .. that is why your highest level gear will be just a good as your level ten gear if you like the looks of the 10th level better due to the mods you put in ..
I do not recall the Mods changing any appearance just the stats or benefits.
See it is the word "viable" that worries me here. I seriously doubt those level 10 pants will ever be able to really compete with a pair of level 50 epic pants. Viable only works in a situation were the differences are minute enough not to matter, and from what I've seen that's not the case with SWTOR's gear.
sheesh .. word smiths. YOUR GEAR WILL BE EQUAL .. THE SAME.. ONLY LOOK DIFFERENT >> ok ? Have the same stats .. the MODS give the stats .. you will have those MODS .. Or not ..
Look to the stars to know HE is with us. HE hung them as markers, of times and of seasons.
Well Biowares thinking you have to play how we want you to play, is the same reason why the subs of another game have fallen.
Damnit its 2011 maybe 2012 when ToR comes, appearance tabs have somewhat become the norm. Even the game that shouldn't be named will finally have them, it doesn't strike me as something incredible hard to do and if so much people want it, why not code it?
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
sheesh .. word smiths. YOUR GEAR WILL BE EQUAL .. THE SAME.. ONLY LOOK DIFFERENT >> ok ? Have the same stats .. the MODS give the stats .. you will have those MODS .. Or not ..
Yes, but we have not proof that mods will actually make level 10 gear equal to end game epics, and I seriously doubt that they will.
...clearly illustrates that people aren’t interested in a game set in Episode II: Attack of the Clones.
Precisely. Bioware seems to be running some "slight-of-hand" maneuver with this whole being able to "modify" the appearance of armor business, while not actually incorporating it into an mmorpg.
It doesn't exist, and I will continue to hold to that opinion until they show how it exists in a robust fashion.
So unitl then, here we have a reportedly heavily instanced and sharded game that provides the appearance that it plays like "Mass Effect", with the dialog choices that take you to the same end-result, and as a lobby-system single-player RPG with a bolt-on MOBA map, and a supposed mmorpg that is clearly without any robust dye system or crafting/tailoring system to enable players to personalize one's Avatar, to differentiate one's Avatar from being a carbon-copy of the guy standing next to him, in a virtual world.
Leoghan I will let you know how it works out for me when I play the game at release. Until then you will always see the glass half empty and Me .. Well, to me it is always Half full. We will just agree we disagree to some degree.
Look to the stars to know HE is with us. HE hung them as markers, of times and of seasons.
Leoghan I will let you know how it works out for me when I play the game at release. Until then you will always see the glass half empty and Me .. Well, to me it is always Half full. We will just agree we disagree to some degree.
I think what you are missing is the point of this article is that, we don't know what they mean by "modifying" this armor and what viablity it really has. While on the flip side of things, we know how appearance tabs work and while they may have a few short comings their implmentation ensures that players get full control over the look of their characters without having to sacrifice stats.
The mod system may work out that way, but I think most veteran MMO's can see the problem with that. At least with the appearance tab you have to earn the epic gear in order to get its stats, with a mod system you might not and that is rather problematic.
I think it's pretty sad of BW to not add customizable content like appearance tabs. It's bad enough that nearly the whole game is on rails and a clone to top it off. Is BW seriously that lazy that they can't add better character customization and appearance tabs? It's the 21st century for crying out loud, quit using last century technology BW.
Honestly the system Bioware has mentioned concerns me. Because they haven't gone into the specifics, I must assume the worst even for an outstanding developer like Bioware. I doubt it will work nearly as well as they say it does. Generally a developer keeps something under wraps if they know the details won't be well recieved, especially this close to launch.
It reminds me of a car salesman telling someone how great, outstanding, and amazing a car is so that person will buy it, but it's a piece of crap.
And just to be clear, I don't mean SWToR will be crap, just the armor customization system.
Hopefully the community will continue to be outspoken on this issue with Bioware and maybe get them to change they're silly minds. Like WoW's community did with Blizzard.
It took blizzard 6 years and the release of ToR to get around to adding this feature.
It was requested on mass since people saw it in effect in games like LOTRO, seriously blizzard did not respond to community feedback in deciding this they saw it was a much requested feature and held off on it untill they needed their own awesome button.
Bioware Austin have so far show much more dexterity at responding to player feedback, even going as far as to entirely redesign core systems (The ui, the companion armour system the companion system its self) based on player feedback. While they dont have the same agility is Trion due to their project being much larger they certainly have shown more wilingness to engage player feedback than most mmo studios.
They have added the band aid of the armour mod system and we have to wait and see how that pans out because it might make the appearance tab null and void in its application. When you consider the social system will have cosmetic gearing options that can be modded up to compete with epic gear its certainly a new approach while keeping that sense of progression there. Bioware have stated that they do not feel you will see many clones of you at end game due to the armour mod system so it might be that this replaces the need for an appearance tab for all but the most ardent of roleplayers.
The discussion of an appearance tab is a good one, but it is ignoring a lot of core features they are putting in to address the issue of player customisation.
Where as wows system is basically going to end up with a lot of people running round in tier 2......
According to bioware and i dont know how it will work or how many options there really are there mod system will work like an appearance tab only as an in game mechanic instead of a tab.
so id love to see how that works out first. Im not huge on appearance tabs. i dont really care what the gear looks like if it works for me but then u should see what i wear in real life.
not exactly a person who dresses to impress. id rather wear sweats and t shirts. That said until we know how much gear can be modded and how it works im not gonna yell for an apearance tab.
i know alot of players like that and im sure bioware does too.
i just thin they should see how the mod systerm works first before asking for the appearance tab.
Oh bioware has stated that operations drop mods that can let u move up difficulty levels on operations. They say the diffrence in purple and blues is the number of mod slots not the st ats.
U can get gear modded to operation level if u do the operations early levels im sure. At least thats what it sounded like to me. Im also gonna assume that with your pvp tokens u can buy gear or mods to mod out your other gear for pvp
that said until i see it work i wont know for sure.
Oh bioware has stated that operations drop mods that can let u move up difficulty levels on operations. They say the diffrence in purple and blues is the number of mod slots not the st ats.
U can get gear modded to operation level if u do the operations early levels im sure. At least thats what it sounded like to me. Im also gonna assume that with your pvp tokens u can buy gear or mods to mod out your other gear for pvp
that said until i see it work i wont know for sure.
Comments
That is not a problem with the appearance tab though, it is a problem with the game putting inappropriate costumes into the game. But if a game does that, it is likely because the majority of their customers want them, (i.e. they are making money off of it) and so it really isn't even a problem, but a difference in taste.
Personally I don't like those kinds of costumes either, but I'm not going to blame the appearance tab, I'm going to blame the immature player base and the game designers for catering to them (though at least they are doing it to make a buck).
Agreed with this completely, I often find endgame weapons and such to be some of the uglist things I've ever seen, but the stats are so superior to almost anything else I can equip, that I'm forced to use them, so I'd like to be able to appearance tab those too.
Appearance tabs are just about as important to MMOs in today's games as EXP is to it. It should be included in any modern MMO. I hate looking like everyone else.
Appearance tab isn't necessary. You can look how you want to look and maintain the stats to keep you at top level with mods, which accomplishes the same thing as an appearance tab. It's just a different method to achieve the same goal, so I don't see what the problem is, or why people feel they need to have both a tab and the mods.
They don't...
We're saying no one really knows how exactly the mod system works.
Check out The Secret World where fashion is included in the game.
Exactly I can only assume a "mod" is going to add a piece to the existing armor thus making it look different but that is nothing like what many gamers are used togetting from an appearance tab where you can visually wear something totally different.
I kind of think along the lines of Whilan in an earlier post in that in real life we aren't afforded appearance tabs but the problem as I've seen it is that lot's of gear is designed in such a way that it's a distraction to even walk around in some of the stuff we are stuck with.
Yep, and I find it very unlikely that I can take an item from say a level 10 and make it as good as an end game raid item. And in all honesty I shouldn't be able to do that. But if raid gear is the best (which seems to be what they've said for this game and is the way it works in other MMOs) and I hate the look, why should I be forced to use something of lower quality because I want to look a certain way?
Well you indirectly make a good case for BioWare implementing a Vanity tab later on because:
a) An Appearance Tab is finally coming for WoW
b) The Trade Princess idea was/is actually very popular! I remember in the beta, they added an NPC who could very well fill the Trade Princess slot in; not sure if she is still around.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
Heavy customization is a design choice, the game must support this aspect in its design.
A lot of people seam to think you can just put an appearance tab and voila. But even if putting an appearance tab isn't a big work, they are a lot of aspect in the game that must support it, i don't know like easy identification in pvp or for the level status. Its clear Bioware don't want to make that work despite the massive demand.
They are quiet a few popular post in the official forum like this one, the one i personally prefer is the demand to have some high end solo raid like content, and obviously we won't have that either.
I just don't understand game companies sometimes, they have such valuable source from their own customer i don't think there is a single industry with such a heavy communication with its customer, yet they do nothing. Not only they do nothing in the game the actually develop, but they do nothing for the next one. What a pity. Thats also something they should learn at last, mmo gamer want to enhance their game it was part of mmo sine day one, so they should really do them some favor sometime, just for the respect at least.
I do wish you guys would take this same critical eye to other games, nearly every SWTOR article on this site appears to be a well constructed critique of what they could do better, where as a glance at other games reporting (and that doesnt include the holy grail of this site that is GW2) is very positively spun, SWTORs coverage seems to be much more critical. I think this kind of critical eye is healthy for games in general but I am sad that the column inches devoted to SWTOR seem to be the only ones with a balanced view, the rest are either ultra negative or overwhelmingly positive.
Honestly the system Bioware has mentioned concerns me. Because they haven't gone into the specifics, I must assume the worst even for an outstanding developer like Bioware. I doubt it will work nearly as well as they say it does. Generally a developer keeps something under wraps if they know the details won't be well recieved, especially this close to launch.
It reminds me of a car salesman telling someone how great, outstanding, and amazing a car is so that person will buy it, but it's a piece of crap.
And just to be clear, I don't mean SWToR will be crap, just the armor customization system.
Hopefully the community will continue to be outspoken on this issue with Bioware and maybe get them to change they're silly minds. Like WoW's community did with Blizzard.
As others have already said, lack of an appearance tab in a modern MMO is a pretty big oversight for a feature not only wanted by potentional customers but is not going to effect balance in any way.
Bioware's seems to be falling into the old EQ1 era Verant and there "Vision" ideal which wasn't good for the game in any way.
The way I understand it the mods will be added into any gear we have that we like .. so if you like the look of your level 10 pants and want to keep them till you reach level 50 .. at each progression you can put in that level of mods to upgrade the equipment so it is equal at all levels ..
What will not be possible is for say .. a level 10 pair of pants with Mods of level 60 to be worn or used by a level 10 .. you might meet requirements to use the level of Mod your putting on Gear ...
From what I understand anyway .. that is why your highest level gear will be just a good as your level ten gear if you like the looks of the 10th level better due to the mods you put in ..
I do not recall the Mods changing any appearance just the stats or benefits.
Look to the stars to know HE is with us. HE hung them as markers, of times and of seasons.
See it is the word "viable" that worries me here. I seriously doubt those level 10 pants will ever be able to really compete with a pair of level 50 epic pants. Viable only works in a situation were the differences are minute enough not to matter, and from what I've seen that's not the case with SWTOR's gear.
sheesh .. word smiths. YOUR GEAR WILL BE EQUAL .. THE SAME.. ONLY LOOK DIFFERENT >> ok ? Have the same stats .. the MODS give the stats .. you will have those MODS .. Or not ..
Look to the stars to know HE is with us. HE hung them as markers, of times and of seasons.
Well Biowares thinking you have to play how we want you to play, is the same reason why the subs of another game have fallen.
Damnit its 2011 maybe 2012 when ToR comes, appearance tabs have somewhat become the norm. Even the game that shouldn't be named will finally have them, it doesn't strike me as something incredible hard to do and if so much people want it, why not code it?
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Yes, but we have not proof that mods will actually make level 10 gear equal to end game epics, and I seriously doubt that they will.
...clearly illustrates that people aren’t interested in a game set in Episode II: Attack of the Clones.
Precisely. Bioware seems to be running some "slight-of-hand" maneuver with this whole being able to "modify" the appearance of armor business, while not actually incorporating it into an mmorpg.
It doesn't exist, and I will continue to hold to that opinion until they show how it exists in a robust fashion.
So unitl then, here we have a reportedly heavily instanced and sharded game that provides the appearance that it plays like "Mass Effect", with the dialog choices that take you to the same end-result, and as a lobby-system single-player RPG with a bolt-on MOBA map, and a supposed mmorpg that is clearly without any robust dye system or crafting/tailoring system to enable players to personalize one's Avatar, to differentiate one's Avatar from being a carbon-copy of the guy standing next to him, in a virtual world.
Leoghan I will let you know how it works out for me when I play the game at release. Until then you will always see the glass half empty and Me .. Well, to me it is always Half full. We will just agree we disagree to some degree.
Look to the stars to know HE is with us. HE hung them as markers, of times and of seasons.
I think what you are missing is the point of this article is that, we don't know what they mean by "modifying" this armor and what viablity it really has. While on the flip side of things, we know how appearance tabs work and while they may have a few short comings their implmentation ensures that players get full control over the look of their characters without having to sacrifice stats.
The mod system may work out that way, but I think most veteran MMO's can see the problem with that. At least with the appearance tab you have to earn the epic gear in order to get its stats, with a mod system you might not and that is rather problematic.
I think it's pretty sad of BW to not add customizable content like appearance tabs. It's bad enough that nearly the whole game is on rails and a clone to top it off. Is BW seriously that lazy that they can't add better character customization and appearance tabs? It's the 21st century for crying out loud, quit using last century technology BW.
It took blizzard 6 years and the release of ToR to get around to adding this feature.
It was requested on mass since people saw it in effect in games like LOTRO, seriously blizzard did not respond to community feedback in deciding this they saw it was a much requested feature and held off on it untill they needed their own awesome button.
Bioware Austin have so far show much more dexterity at responding to player feedback, even going as far as to entirely redesign core systems (The ui, the companion armour system the companion system its self) based on player feedback. While they dont have the same agility is Trion due to their project being much larger they certainly have shown more wilingness to engage player feedback than most mmo studios.
They have added the band aid of the armour mod system and we have to wait and see how that pans out because it might make the appearance tab null and void in its application. When you consider the social system will have cosmetic gearing options that can be modded up to compete with epic gear its certainly a new approach while keeping that sense of progression there. Bioware have stated that they do not feel you will see many clones of you at end game due to the armour mod system so it might be that this replaces the need for an appearance tab for all but the most ardent of roleplayers.
The discussion of an appearance tab is a good one, but it is ignoring a lot of core features they are putting in to address the issue of player customisation.
Where as wows system is basically going to end up with a lot of people running round in tier 2......
According to bioware and i dont know how it will work or how many options there really are there mod system will work like an appearance tab only as an in game mechanic instead of a tab.
so id love to see how that works out first. Im not huge on appearance tabs. i dont really care what the gear looks like if it works for me but then u should see what i wear in real life.
not exactly a person who dresses to impress. id rather wear sweats and t shirts. That said until we know how much gear can be modded and how it works im not gonna yell for an apearance tab.
i know alot of players like that and im sure bioware does too.
i just thin they should see how the mod systerm works first before asking for the appearance tab.
Oh bioware has stated that operations drop mods that can let u move up difficulty levels on operations. They say the diffrence in purple and blues is the number of mod slots not the st ats.
U can get gear modded to operation level if u do the operations early levels im sure. At least thats what it sounded like to me. Im also gonna assume that with your pvp tokens u can buy gear or mods to mod out your other gear for pvp
that said until i see it work i wont know for sure.
Oh bioware has stated that operations drop mods that can let u move up difficulty levels on operations. They say the diffrence in purple and blues is the number of mod slots not the st ats.
U can get gear modded to operation level if u do the operations early levels im sure. At least thats what it sounded like to me. Im also gonna assume that with your pvp tokens u can buy gear or mods to mod out your other gear for pvp
that said until i see it work i wont know for sure.