LOL at all those who want to blacklist companies because they are "greedy." That's like being a republican and saying you will blacklist all the music and movies made by liberals. Have fun watching religious movies and listening to country music. LOL.
I would play a great game even if it was made in a Chinese slave labor camp full of 12-year olds, and if they packaged their games in baby seal pelts.
Inspiration can come from any company. And all of them (at least those who have stockholders which is most of them) are at their core primarily interested in their bottom line. Even many of the "Indies" want your money, believe it or not...
I don't write off companies that want to make money, I write off companies that want to do it in a fashion that I find reprehensible.
Your brand of moral flexibility is all too common with today's me first society. So long as you get what you want, everything else can go hang. I'd guess that's the same sort of self-absorbed philosophy that allowed bank executives to give out risky loans like it was candy, to people they knew would never be able to pay them. The suits made a bundle off those deals but everyone else got caught holding the bag and many, especially the ones who could least afford it, ended up losing everything they had.
I'm far from a paragon a virtue myself, but there are certain lines I don't cross. When I feel that someone has crossed one of those lines, I write them off. The little sting I get from knowing that I have to give up something that I want, goes away rather quickly.
I think it's stupid to blacklist a game company. So strange that MMORPG gamers are the only ones I know to really do this.
Really? Boycotting products because you don't like the seller/manufacturer has been a market force for as long as trade has existed between people. What I find stupid is that gamers seem incapable of saying 'no', so long as it means any kind of sacrifice for them. We're just about the most desperately forgiving consumers outside of drug addicts.
I think it's stupid to blacklist a game company. So strange that MMORPG gamers are the only ones I know to really do this.
Really? Boycotting products because you don't like the seller/manufacturer has been a market force for as long as trade has existed between people. What I find stupid is that gamers seem incapable of saying 'no', so long as it means any kind of sacrifice for them. We're just about the most desperately forgiving consumers outside of drug addicts.
LOL, you are right, but maybe you can see the difference in the following examples:
1) Boycotting a city bus service because they force african americans to sit in the back
2) Boycotting a beauty product company because they kill thousands of animals testing their products
3) Boycotting a game company because in a previous MMO they implemented a cash shop
All very noble causes indeed... LOL
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I think it's stupid to blacklist a game company. So strange that MMORPG gamers are the only ones I know to really do this.
Really? Boycotting products because you don't like the seller/manufacturer has been a market force for as long as trade has existed between people. What I find stupid is that gamers seem incapable of saying 'no', so long as it means any kind of sacrifice for them. We're just about the most desperately forgiving consumers outside of drug addicts.
LoL, so true.
@ gainsvilleg: In matters of principle, I don't think the degree of opression or betrayal is an issue. Sure slavery was worse than a bad game, but which one affected me more personally? Surely I would protest the killing of animals more than poor gameplay, but I think Unlight touched on something that is affecting the games we are getting these days, which is the topic. People boycott restaruarants because they don't like the flavor of cheese. There is probably a lot more boycotting for silly reasons than noble causes.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I think it's stupid to blacklist a game company. So strange that MMORPG gamers are the only ones I know to really do this.
I agree. It is rather stupid but thats the MMORPG.com culture. Everything is taken personal from one game update to another. It's just a way for everyone to have yet another opportunity to say I don't like X because of Y even though thats not what blacklisting is.
The funny thing is, if that company you blacklisted makes a really good game you will play it. You can deny all you want, but if all and every one say its good you WILL try it :P
The funny thing is, if that company you blacklisted makes a really good game you will play it. You can deny all you want, but if all and every one say its good you WILL try it :P
actually i have not played a single SOE or SONY anything since 2005 (not even PSX PS2 PS3 PSP)
I played a couple of EA sports games about 18 years ago or so. They were so awful that I haven't picked up anything by EA since then. Once I went back and tried one of their old basketball games again, thinking, it can't really be that bad, can it? Yep, it really can be that bad.
There are decisions that I don't like, and mistakes that I can understand. But there are completely wacky things that make me think, how could they possibly have put this into the game in the first place, let alone thought it was ready to ship in a console game that can never be patched? In the EA basketball game in question, if you call time out immediately after the opening tip, you'll see that most of your starters are already tired and need to come out of the game. Things like that are completely mystifying to me, though the game was also awful for a lot of other reasons.
Funcom I could go on a rant for pages long but it is not needed, anybody who has ever seen my post knows I refer to them as failcom.
Cryptic trying to ruin a great ip like star trek with a mix of store and rmt all together.
Turbine, for what they done to a great ip like Lotro. All I can say is they started of great but lack of direction led to free to play, and now the only real content is in the store.
I would agree with You on all of these (and add SOE). Turbine used to stand for something special, now they are just like the rest. I started in the Angmar days and the updates were fantastic. They are dragging it out too far. Isen will be a dissapointment for many. We should be in Rohan by now.
I cant really justify having a black list. Companies change. Ive sort of got one I guess....a publisher.
ATARI
Thats one I will not buy from. That might change one day. I doubt it. I might have said Cryptic but Im interested to see what PW does with them. I didnt say I was hopeful or excited. Just interested.
CCP is a close one too at this point. They've seemingly changed for the worse. But they were a half decent game developer for a long time and they may be again. But Im big on second chances regardless. If they earn that chance.
Better to keep an open mind and just observe the goings ons I say.
I wonder if the executives at SOE know exactly how badly most people regard their company, why they do so, and have sense enough to care? Their reputation with the people that would buy or have bought their game products is ATROCIOUS. Just look at this thread... Almost every post.
I have never seen them make even a half hearted attempt to turn things around, make some form of ammends with their cutomers, and right that leaky boat they try to float.
I did some voluntary mod work for IGG and later on some behind the scenes paid admin work (mainly maintenence) and all I can say is their a bunch of chinese idiots who do not know how to make good games. Money, I hate to say it that when I was working there they made a profit and the item shop went nuts but I definately wouldn't play any of their games even if you paid me.
what do you feel if you bought a game from a company and felt you were scammed by the company do you still give the company another chance and buy another game
If the subject is buying a new MMORPG off of the shelf, the answer is...
All of them are on my Black List. Every single company.
This is only in regards to pre ordering or buying a game upon release.
I will cheerfully give my money to any company that provides a GOOD game with GOOD service.
I no longer blindly trust any company at this point to provide both of those things on a game's Launch.
A game can be out for 2-3 months to generate reviews and hands on player info, from players. I'm patient enough to wait for this in making up my own mind if the company is worth my money or not.
Edit - Sony is the only company I have a kneejerk response to NEVER give them money again. But I will admit that I would make an exception if they pull a hat trick with a stellar version of Planetside 2.
ive noticed a few people sayimg how can you put a company on a black list and its stupid
if you buy a car and it constantly breaks down do you buy another car from place you bought it ,do you buy he same brand of car
i wouldnt
even second had cars if you bought a bad car from a second hand car seller and its bad do you go back
i know i dont and the seller wasnt responsible for the building or maintanace of the car he didnt even drive it and was only a reseller but he is given equal fault along with the maker
Most developers move around from game to game and company to company, the management does too and that is usually where the blame lies if you personally don't like a game. (Your dislikes might be due to bugs or just game play or subscription plan or whatever.)
I have played most of the games that have been out there starting with EQ. I have left most of those games for various reasons......the grind (L2), the endgame = raids (WoW), the LFG syndrome (EQ), no real endgame (CoX), no endgame at all (CO), boring or just not capturing my attention enough (everything else from WAR to AoC to Aion and Vanguard and EQ2 and on and on...)
However I have never blamed a company except for one!!! I never actually got bored or had any issue with the game known as SWG....until the management turned it upside down. That company was SOE.....However, i like what they did with EQ and EQ2 and am looking forward to EQNext. I know there is a different team that works EQ than SWG and realized that decision was localized. So I do blame SOE but in particular it was really ONE person, we all know who that is.
Also, with WOW, I loved that game and would probably still be playing it if that ONE particular person wasn't such a spoiled brat. Yes, i am talking about bus shock and the shaman rep who failed to do anything for shaman for the BC expansion....shaman pvp (DPS and survivability, excluding resto) has failed ever since. I can never forget the attitude of entitlement that person displayed, the lack of professionalism.
So, I don't blame a company as a company is nothing but a collection of individuals and it is those individuals who make decisions or just sit idle.....so I blame individuals and as such will shy away from a game if said individual has anything to do with it.
Better to isolate those who do this genre a disservice than to isolate a company that has the means to develop a good game. Just make sure those companies keep the "bad" people out of their management and development teams.
I have had good and bad expreiences with other companies. No other company can compare with the complete disregard for their customers then SOE. They have a unique company culture that refuses to face their mistakes and address them. I think it is appropiate that they went with the FTP model with Planetside 2. Until they are ready to make some changes they will be grouped in with the FTP crowd of games which is not flattering.
Most developers move around from game to game and company to company, the management does too and that is usually where the blame lies if you personally don't like a game. (Your dislikes might be due to bugs or just game play or subscription plan or whatever.)
I have played most of the games that have been out there starting with EQ. I have left most of those games for various reasons......the grind (L2), the endgame = raids (WoW), the LFG syndrome (EQ), no real endgame (CoX), no endgame at all (CO), boring or just not capturing my attention enough (everything else from WAR to AoC to Aion and Vanguard and EQ2 and on and on...)
However I have never blamed a company except for one!!! I never actually got bored or had any issue with the game known as SWG....until the management turned it upside down. That company was SOE.....However, i like what they did with EQ and EQ2 and am looking forward to EQNext. I know there is a different team that works EQ than SWG and realized that decision was localized. So I do blame SOE but in particular it was really ONE person, we all know who that is.
Also, with WOW, I loved that game and would probably still be playing it if that ONE particular person wasn't such a spoiled brat. Yes, i am talking about bus shock and the shaman rep who failed to do anything for shaman for the BC expansion....shaman pvp (DPS and survivability, excluding resto) has failed ever since. I can never forget the attitude of entitlement that person displayed, the lack of professionalism.
So, I don't blame a company as a company is nothing but a collection of individuals and it is those individuals who make decisions or just sit idle.....so I blame individuals and as such will shy away from a game if said individual has anything to do with it.
Better to isolate those who do this genre a disservice than to isolate a company that has the means to develop a good game. Just make sure those companies keep the "bad" people out of their management and development teams.
Quite often the company pushes this issue. Ever notice that it's often the same people working on a companies new projects? Ever notice the game have the exact same problems as the previous game that they swore they learned from? Yeah, they learned just how far they can push you and still get paid. You can't keep rewarding people with your money and then run to forums to complain about how bad they were and how you should have known better. If you don't stop supporting them, they will just keep making the same thing because it becomes "the proven system" that makes them money. Sadly, people are more into being "FIRST!" to play the new game and get some achievement in it than supporting a good long lasting game. As I've said in other threads, this crap of "It's just a game." has to go. The money they make from customers is very real, pays for very nice cars, pays for very nice houses, and pays them to go on nice vacations. Why do people expect better quality from a $1-$2 soda than they do a $15-$20 a month game? It's all the same money. Game money doesn't have less value than other money. You either care about your money or you don't. Look at Blizzavisions quarterly earnings and tell yourself "it's just a game" while Bobby Kotick is swimming in your cash like Scrouge McDuck.
FUncom is a good example. In Anarchy Online they pushed multiple expansions out well before they had key features finished. They had to artificially limit access to zones because people got into them before they expected and found them completely empty. They launched expansions with missing features prominently pictured on the box and in the game descriptions to hit dead lines and make their money. Features that didn't get put in til way later. They have lied and mishandled their games for years. Then, people run to buy AoC and expect that they magically changed into a glorious company. What did they find? Another horribly made game with missing/unplayable features and even more lies. They didn't learn then, why would you blindly think they would in TSW? As I said before, they've been promising to put in a new game engine and do a complete profession rebalance in AO for how many years now? Now that Duke Nukem actually got it's vaporware made real, they are still sitting there promising the sky and delivering mud. Why? Because FUncom left a skeleton crew to keep AO earning money and trying to do everything by themselves while they put the "A" team that made AO and AoC on TSW. So, why would you buy such a game from a company with such a record based on their promises? As someone else said, if you swap the game for any other product/service/etc that you pay money for, would you still be so lenient? Why do game companies get a free pass for horrible work and uncaring and elitest attitudes toward their own customers? What makes them different?
[edit]
You kind of already said it yourself with the shaman example. While that one person did leave the company, have they changed how they deal with that class/spec? Does it still feel like they are talking out of both sides of their mouth about issues for them? Remember the whole fiasco with caster weapons and how wolves are supposed to be an everything in one talent that leaves enhancement feeling like two different specs with and without them? Has that ever been fixed? Why would you expect better in their new games? Did Blizz ever give enh a pair of legendaries because they were performing and "feeling" bad about their class? No, then why did they do it for rogues? What about the melee buff to balance a raid that's not even out yet? Do they really deserve your money for such work?
Comments
I don't write off companies that want to make money, I write off companies that want to do it in a fashion that I find reprehensible.
Your brand of moral flexibility is all too common with today's me first society. So long as you get what you want, everything else can go hang. I'd guess that's the same sort of self-absorbed philosophy that allowed bank executives to give out risky loans like it was candy, to people they knew would never be able to pay them. The suits made a bundle off those deals but everyone else got caught holding the bag and many, especially the ones who could least afford it, ended up losing everything they had.
I'm far from a paragon a virtue myself, but there are certain lines I don't cross. When I feel that someone has crossed one of those lines, I write them off. The little sting I get from knowing that I have to give up something that I want, goes away rather quickly.
I think it's stupid to blacklist a game company. So strange that MMORPG gamers are the only ones I know to really do this.
Really? Boycotting products because you don't like the seller/manufacturer has been a market force for as long as trade has existed between people. What I find stupid is that gamers seem incapable of saying 'no', so long as it means any kind of sacrifice for them. We're just about the most desperately forgiving consumers outside of drug addicts.
LOL, you are right, but maybe you can see the difference in the following examples:
1) Boycotting a city bus service because they force african americans to sit in the back
2) Boycotting a beauty product company because they kill thousands of animals testing their products
3) Boycotting a game company because in a previous MMO they implemented a cash shop
All very noble causes indeed... LOL
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
LoL, so true.
@ gainsvilleg: In matters of principle, I don't think the degree of opression or betrayal is an issue. Sure slavery was worse than a bad game, but which one affected me more personally? Surely I would protest the killing of animals more than poor gameplay, but I think Unlight touched on something that is affecting the games we are getting these days, which is the topic. People boycott restaruarants because they don't like the flavor of cheese. There is probably a lot more boycotting for silly reasons than noble causes.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I agree. It is rather stupid but thats the MMORPG.com culture. Everything is taken personal from one game update to another. It's just a way for everyone to have yet another opportunity to say I don't like X because of Y even though thats not what blacklisting is.
lol so far there has been 75 counts of SOE (this is just using the ctrl F feature to find words on the browser.) 133 posts
ill make it 76 because thats the only company im boycoting, im fighting the urge to sub to vanguard.
The funny thing is, if that company you blacklisted makes a really good game you will play it. You can deny all you want, but if all and every one say its good you WILL try it :P
Zoos the Slacker
actually i have not played a single SOE or SONY anything since 2005 (not even PSX PS2 PS3 PSP)
I played a couple of EA sports games about 18 years ago or so. They were so awful that I haven't picked up anything by EA since then. Once I went back and tried one of their old basketball games again, thinking, it can't really be that bad, can it? Yep, it really can be that bad.
There are decisions that I don't like, and mistakes that I can understand. But there are completely wacky things that make me think, how could they possibly have put this into the game in the first place, let alone thought it was ready to ship in a console game that can never be patched? In the EA basketball game in question, if you call time out immediately after the opening tip, you'll see that most of your starters are already tired and need to come out of the game. Things like that are completely mystifying to me, though the game was also awful for a lot of other reasons.
I cant really justify having a black list. Companies change. Ive sort of got one I guess....a publisher.
ATARI
Thats one I will not buy from. That might change one day. I doubt it. I might have said Cryptic but Im interested to see what PW does with them. I didnt say I was hopeful or excited. Just interested.
CCP is a close one too at this point. They've seemingly changed for the worse. But they were a half decent game developer for a long time and they may be again. But Im big on second chances regardless. If they earn that chance.
Better to keep an open mind and just observe the goings ons I say.
I wonder if the executives at SOE know exactly how badly most people regard their company, why they do so, and have sense enough to care? Their reputation with the people that would buy or have bought their game products is ATROCIOUS. Just look at this thread... Almost every post.
I have never seen them make even a half hearted attempt to turn things around, make some form of ammends with their cutomers, and right that leaky boat they try to float.
I did some voluntary mod work for IGG and later on some behind the scenes paid admin work (mainly maintenence) and all I can say is their a bunch of chinese idiots who do not know how to make good games. Money, I hate to say it that when I was working there they made a profit and the item shop went nuts but I definately wouldn't play any of their games even if you paid me.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
what do you feel if you bought a game from a company and felt you were scammed by the company do you still give the company another chance and buy another game
If the subject is buying a new MMORPG off of the shelf, the answer is...
All of them are on my Black List. Every single company.
This is only in regards to pre ordering or buying a game upon release.
I will cheerfully give my money to any company that provides a GOOD game with GOOD service.
I no longer blindly trust any company at this point to provide both of those things on a game's Launch.
A game can be out for 2-3 months to generate reviews and hands on player info, from players. I'm patient enough to wait for this in making up my own mind if the company is worth my money or not.
Edit - Sony is the only company I have a kneejerk response to NEVER give them money again. But I will admit that I would make an exception if they pull a hat trick with a stellar version of Planetside 2.
2K Games: Zero customer support. I bought a game and paid 50 euros, it didn't work, I didn't get any answer from their technical support.
ive noticed a few people sayimg how can you put a company on a black list and its stupid
if you buy a car and it constantly breaks down do you buy another car from place you bought it ,do you buy he same brand of car
i wouldnt
even second had cars if you bought a bad car from a second hand car seller and its bad do you go back
i know i dont and the seller wasnt responsible for the building or maintanace of the car he didnt even drive it and was only a reseller but he is given equal fault along with the maker
Activision-Blizzard is on my list and remains there as long as Kotick and Morheim are pulling the strings.
Hmmm,
Most developers move around from game to game and company to company, the management does too and that is usually where the blame lies if you personally don't like a game. (Your dislikes might be due to bugs or just game play or subscription plan or whatever.)
I have played most of the games that have been out there starting with EQ. I have left most of those games for various reasons......the grind (L2), the endgame = raids (WoW), the LFG syndrome (EQ), no real endgame (CoX), no endgame at all (CO), boring or just not capturing my attention enough (everything else from WAR to AoC to Aion and Vanguard and EQ2 and on and on...)
However I have never blamed a company except for one!!! I never actually got bored or had any issue with the game known as SWG....until the management turned it upside down. That company was SOE.....However, i like what they did with EQ and EQ2 and am looking forward to EQNext. I know there is a different team that works EQ than SWG and realized that decision was localized. So I do blame SOE but in particular it was really ONE person, we all know who that is.
Also, with WOW, I loved that game and would probably still be playing it if that ONE particular person wasn't such a spoiled brat. Yes, i am talking about bus shock and the shaman rep who failed to do anything for shaman for the BC expansion....shaman pvp (DPS and survivability, excluding resto) has failed ever since. I can never forget the attitude of entitlement that person displayed, the lack of professionalism.
So, I don't blame a company as a company is nothing but a collection of individuals and it is those individuals who make decisions or just sit idle.....so I blame individuals and as such will shy away from a game if said individual has anything to do with it.
Better to isolate those who do this genre a disservice than to isolate a company that has the means to develop a good game. Just make sure those companies keep the "bad" people out of their management and development teams.
SOE
I have had good and bad expreiences with other companies. No other company can compare with the complete disregard for their customers then SOE. They have a unique company culture that refuses to face their mistakes and address them. I think it is appropiate that they went with the FTP model with Planetside 2. Until they are ready to make some changes they will be grouped in with the FTP crowd of games which is not flattering.
sony for me
Quite often the company pushes this issue. Ever notice that it's often the same people working on a companies new projects? Ever notice the game have the exact same problems as the previous game that they swore they learned from? Yeah, they learned just how far they can push you and still get paid. You can't keep rewarding people with your money and then run to forums to complain about how bad they were and how you should have known better. If you don't stop supporting them, they will just keep making the same thing because it becomes "the proven system" that makes them money. Sadly, people are more into being "FIRST!" to play the new game and get some achievement in it than supporting a good long lasting game. As I've said in other threads, this crap of "It's just a game." has to go. The money they make from customers is very real, pays for very nice cars, pays for very nice houses, and pays them to go on nice vacations. Why do people expect better quality from a $1-$2 soda than they do a $15-$20 a month game? It's all the same money. Game money doesn't have less value than other money. You either care about your money or you don't. Look at Blizzavisions quarterly earnings and tell yourself "it's just a game" while Bobby Kotick is swimming in your cash like Scrouge McDuck.
FUncom is a good example. In Anarchy Online they pushed multiple expansions out well before they had key features finished. They had to artificially limit access to zones because people got into them before they expected and found them completely empty. They launched expansions with missing features prominently pictured on the box and in the game descriptions to hit dead lines and make their money. Features that didn't get put in til way later. They have lied and mishandled their games for years. Then, people run to buy AoC and expect that they magically changed into a glorious company. What did they find? Another horribly made game with missing/unplayable features and even more lies. They didn't learn then, why would you blindly think they would in TSW? As I said before, they've been promising to put in a new game engine and do a complete profession rebalance in AO for how many years now? Now that Duke Nukem actually got it's vaporware made real, they are still sitting there promising the sky and delivering mud. Why? Because FUncom left a skeleton crew to keep AO earning money and trying to do everything by themselves while they put the "A" team that made AO and AoC on TSW. So, why would you buy such a game from a company with such a record based on their promises? As someone else said, if you swap the game for any other product/service/etc that you pay money for, would you still be so lenient? Why do game companies get a free pass for horrible work and uncaring and elitest attitudes toward their own customers? What makes them different?
[edit]
You kind of already said it yourself with the shaman example. While that one person did leave the company, have they changed how they deal with that class/spec? Does it still feel like they are talking out of both sides of their mouth about issues for them? Remember the whole fiasco with caster weapons and how wolves are supposed to be an everything in one talent that leaves enhancement feeling like two different specs with and without them? Has that ever been fixed? Why would you expect better in their new games? Did Blizz ever give enh a pair of legendaries because they were performing and "feeling" bad about their class? No, then why did they do it for rogues? What about the melee buff to balance a raid that's not even out yet? Do they really deserve your money for such work?
[/edit]
Cryptic
Turbine - Turned LOTRO into a steaming pile of doody. Also because of their deceptive practices since going F2P.
You're an idiot.