I don't think I'm allowed to link to leak sites, but I do know of a few that have 3 million plus hits in their few months of existence. Just not 'mainstream' or 'official fansite' sites.
It's funny because those same leak sites have no advertisements at all.
I don't know about the US, but here in the EU, websites are responsible for all of their content (including forum posts from subscribers). So if random Bob breaks a NDA on X mmo site, X will get in trouble, not Bob.
They could just have a disclaimer or the leak could force you to 'sign' a t&c agreement saying you are not an employee or in any way acquainted with an employee of BW/EA/random studio and that revealing any details, info or reporting the leak is breaking such an agreement.
I don't think I'm allowed to link to leak sites, but I do know of a few that have 3 million plus hits in their few months of existence. Just not 'mainstream' or 'official fansite' sites.
It's funny because those same leak sites have no advertisements at all.
Just because they say 3 million doesn't mean it's true. People who run websites have a desire for users of the website to think the website is popular. It's just self promotion.
I would say it's enlightened self interest. Gaming sites that do not at least make the effort to enforce known NDA will probably get less advertising revenue and game information from game publishers. Information, and especially exclusive information about games keeps people on a site longer while they read about the games that interest them. People stay longer, they post on the forums, make the site bigger (in terms of regulars), so the site can get more money from advertisers.
There are also some moral and possibly legal obligations, but it serves the sites themselves to enforce the non-disclosure agreements that they know about.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I believe it was an embedded wordpress one that was updating in real time so I think it's real.
I still think you're leaning on loose theories and rare exceptions to form your arguments. What happens when mmorpg.com gets sued out the ass and all this hypothetical money gets permadeathed? What happens when they alienate half of their readership due to that half wanting nothing to do with beta leaks? What happens when in the future a 6 month period occurs where no game is coming out to release beta leaks for so then there is no traffic so no ads and no money at all?
I just don't think you're thinking this all the way through. A website like this isn't a get rich quick scheme. It wants to survive long term.
Originally posted by Jimmac Originally posted by BigAndShiny I believe it was an embedded wordpress one that was updating in real time so I think it's real.
I still think you're leaning on loose theories and rare exceptions to form your arguments. What happens when mmorpg.com gets sued out the ass and all this hypothetical money gets permadeathed? What happens when they alienate half of their readership due to that half wanting nothing to do with beta leaks? What happens when in the future a 6 month period occurs where no game is coming out to release beta leaks for so then there is no traffic so no ads and no money at all? I just don't think you're thinking this all the way through. A website like this isn't a get rich quick scheme. It wants to survive long term.
Publishers don't need to do anything so dramatic. They just don't give interviews to MMORPG.com. That would include other, publicly available information. MMORPG.com would have to link to other sites like Massively.com in order to have articles. Everything else would be opinion pieces and these forums.
If things got really bad, if MMORPG.com was known for having beta leaks and releasing information that wasn't for public consumption, then they might get sued eventually, but I think the drop in readership from the basic tactics would pretty much doom the site. Publishers would just starve it to death.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I think it might have a little to do with those sites having to hold off from doing the same, and having it's members spoiling it when they are able to release their own official reviews/opinions, the impact would be less important if all it's members have already read/formed their opinions months in advance (and because of that would likely also see those site's views as wrong lol).
Sites like this couldn't just break the NDA so willy-nilly and put up a personal reviews today, i'm pretty possitive they would have some sort of lawsuit heading their way if they did.
So what i'm trying to say (sunday morning haze.. ugh) mods here enforce NDA's for their site's own good just as much as whatever game the NDA is applied to.
I don't know about the US, but here in the EU, websites are responsible for all of their content (including forum posts from subscribers). So if random Bob breaks a NDA on X mmo site, X will get in trouble, not Bob.
They could just have a disclaimer or the leak could force you to 'sign' a t&c agreement saying you are not an employee or in any way acquainted with an employee of BW/EA/random studio and that revealing any details, info or reporting the leak is breaking such an agreement.
I am astounded that you continue to fail to discern the fact that leaking NDA information is "wrong" and therefore should not be done.
The failure in ethics in society these days is disheartening to say the least.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A serious newspaper doesnt just disclose any secret information. If it happens, then its usually to uncover some scandal, like fraud or anything like that. They chose to print it because they think that to show the truth to the society outweighs the importance of any confidentiality contract.
So just posting information that clearly violates a games NDA, is not a good enough reason . If a website that takes itself serious would write about NDA breaking information then it would have to be something that they think is important enough to warn their readers about. For example, if a game is close to launch date and is selling preorders and the website learns from a source that there is not much of a game to launch, it could be a reason to inform their readers about this. It would have to be something severe that makes you seriously doubt the game company's credibility.
A serious newspaper doesnt just disclose any secret information. If it happens, then its usually to uncover some scandal, like fraud or anything like that. They chose to print it because they think that to show the truth to the society outweighs the importance of any confidentiality contract.
So just posting information that clearly violates a games NDA, is not a good enough reason . If a website that takes itself serious would write about NDA breaking information then it would have to be something that they think is important enough to warn their readers about. For example, if a game is close to launch date and is selling preorders and the website learns from a source that there is not much of a game to launch, it could be a reason to inform their readers about this. It would have to be something severe that makes you seriously doubt the game company's credibility.
That kind of information would have to come from a inside source and have a lot of credibility in order for a site to put that up. Someone making such a statement is not enough it has to be credible and valid.
You do realize that disclosing information while under an NDA is a breach of a legal contract and can actually come with some nasty consequences. Even 3rd party (web sites in this case) need to adhere to that because they are essentially distributing copywrited material to which they have no rights to.
Whistle blowing is completely different because a contract is not legaly enforcable if it involves illegal activity.
(ie. I can't make a written contract for you to go and kill your neighbor then sue you if you don't complete it.)
Also leaks are often hurtful. Beta's are rarely "cutting edge" they are generally a version or two behind where they're actually at in internal testing. You can't tell how buggy or clean the final product will be by a beta. Thing is the average joe doesn't know that and if they see issues they'll be less likely to give it a chance later. Beta's are not there for "sneak peaks" they are there to iron out the wrinkles of a game. Things change real quick pre launch. Just be patient.
I don't think I'm allowed to link to leak sites, but I do know of a few that have 3 million plus hits in their few months of existence. Just not 'mainstream' or 'official fansite' sites.
It's funny because those same leak sites have no advertisements at all.
So you know of sites in the past that had huge hits with leaks ...
If the mmo site does not recognize the nda then game companies will be less likely to grant them interviews, previews maybe even beta keys for giveaways.
If the game site wants to have some legitmacy in the industry they are holding discussions for then they need to recognize the rights of those game comapnies.
if players want to break nda's even though they agreed to them then they can form their own sites to do just that. I'm sure there are many.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Trade secrets are protected by US law. If an organization publishes those trade secrets they can be held liable for damages. This is exactly why when the employee from Apple lost the new IPhone no reputable organizations were interested when the guy who found it was trying to sell it. One defense around this is if the trade secret has to do with a matter of public concern(ie. Bioware forces 7 years old to test their games for 48 straight hours).
If you post something on MMORPG.COM both you and MMORPG.COM's parent company are liable. Chances are you have nothing of value, so they go after MMORPG.COM's parent company.
NDAs are absolutely enforceable - assuming, of course, the contract is legit. Its just a question of is it worth pursuing($$$).
A serious newspaper doesnt just disclose any secret information. If it happens, then its usually to uncover some scandal, like fraud or anything like that. They chose to print it because they think that to show the truth to the society outweighs the importance of any confidentiality contract.
So just posting information that clearly violates a games NDA, is not a good enough reason . If a website that takes itself serious would write about NDA breaking information then it would have to be something that they think is important enough to warn their readers about. For example, if a game is close to launch date and is selling preorders and the website learns from a source that there is not much of a game to launch, it could be a reason to inform their readers about this. It would have to be something severe that makes you seriously doubt the game company's credibility.
That kind of information would have to come from a inside source and have a lot of credibility in order for a site to put that up. Someone making such a statement is not enough it has to be credible and valid.
Ok. Not sure why you assume I think otherwise. I was argueing why a gaming website doesnt violate NDA's just like that.
Trade secrets are protected by US law. If an organization publishes those trade secrets they can be held liable for damages. This is exactly why when the employee from Apple lost the new IPhone no reputable organizations were interested when the guy who found it was trying to sell it. One defense around this is if the trade secret has to do with a matter of public concern(ie. Bioware forces 7 years old to test their games for 48 straight hours).
If you post something on MMORPG.COM both you and MMORPG.COM's parent company are liable. Chances are you have nothing of value, so they go after MMORPG.COM's parent company.
NDAs are absolutely enforceable - assuming, of course, the contract is legit. Its just a question of is it worth pursuing($$$).
Beta leaks isn't exactly spying on other companies. Sure, large forums shouldn't encorage things like that, and MMORPG.com want the companies to buy add space but it isn't as bad as you make it sounds.
I don't believe that beta leaks really hurt a game that much unless it have a beta that lasts for years and are very uncomplete in the beginning. The reason that games that have bad betas often sell badly is because they usually luanch in a less then good state, not because people hard crap about it when it was in closed beta.
Wow didn't even have a NDA and it is the most successful MMO ever.
As long as the games have a NDA then this site should keep away from leaks, even though links to other sites that have the leaks is fine in my book. But I honestly think that NDAs are pointless.
Engagdet is a popular gadgets blog, getting thousands and thousands of comments per day and going to all tech events etc.. Yet they still post pictures of 'leaked cellphones' or rumors or product leaks etc etc.. And yet Massively, which is the same company, doesn't do that about MMOs.
I'm not asking that Massively or MMORPG's writers post about their experience in beta, what I'm asking is that they go 'Website XXXXX leaked some beta footage for XXXXXXX MMO.' and then link to it. I really don't think there is a legal barrier to reading/writing about stuff that has been put on a public website for all to see. In fact, it's ridiculous.
And FYI, the only MMO sites that really leak or even discuss leaks are obscure website that only pop up for one game run by a single individual doing it as a hobby. There are no 'major' MMO website that discuss leaks, which is honestly ridiculous. Just because you annoy one company, doesn't mean you lose ALL advertising revenue. That's like saying Engadget loses all it's revenue because it leaks IPhone 5 stuff or that a newspaper that talks about a factory worker commiting suicide will never have advertising from that company again.
It's not just about losing advertising revenue. They rely on developers for much of their content as well. Access to demos, interviews, etc. You go breaking their rules, and access dries up, then what do you have to publish? The same thing everyone else has access to. As an information content provider you don't want to have to link to other sites interviews, you want to do your own, and if you allow people to break NDA or link to sites that do, well then that access will get restricted, and if you do it too frequently that access could end all together.
I'm just surprised SWTOR still has NDA up. I can understand having NDA on outdated content because the company does not want "out-dated" info to leak out and confuse the community but most of the newer content should be lifted esp being so close to launch.
NDA is a western trend that seems like will never go away. So silly but I guess they don't want to risk losing out on potential box sells.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Dark and Light. Check out that trainwreck, and see how the relationship between a gaming site and a dev company working to suppress informatioin can screw thousands of people out of money. If you look at the forum timeline you will see many people trying to warn others about this game, those threads were often locked. This site maintained an advertising relationship with DnL even after warnings from players that a huge scam was afoot. Sometimes the evil of breaking an NDA contract can do a great service to the gaming community at large.
Dark and Light. Check out that trainwreck, and see how the relationship between a gaming site and a dev company working to suppress informatioin can screw thousands of people out of money. If you look at the forum timeline you will see many people trying to warn others about this game, those threads were often locked. This site maintained an advertising relationship with DnL even after warnings from players that a huge scam was afoot. Sometimes the evil of breaking an NDA contract can do a great service to the gaming community at large.
Why didn't those players wait to pre order or buy the game until after the game was released and all this information was widely and massively available?
Eithe way, your one example is an exception not the rule. Look at the big picture.
The nda patrol around here are a sad bunch imho. Either way it dosn't matter since there are more than enough websites to publish and leak stuff. I surely would do so if I had the impression that company x is trying to hype people into buying something buggy as sh*t.
The nda patrol around here are a sad bunch imho. Either way it dosn't matter since there are more than enough websites to publish and leak stuff. I surely would do so if I had the impression that company x is trying to hype people into buying something buggy as sh*t.
There is what is legal and there is what you want. Sometimes they don't mesh up well. Mods are protecting their asses, time for people to get over it.
Trade secrets are protected by US law. If an organization publishes those trade secrets they can be held liable for damages. This is exactly why when the employee from Apple lost the new IPhone no reputable organizations were interested when the guy who found it was trying to sell it. One defense around this is if the trade secret has to do with a matter of public concern(ie. Bioware forces 7 years old to test their games for 48 straight hours).
If you post something on MMORPG.COM both you and MMORPG.COM's parent company are liable. Chances are you have nothing of value, so they go after MMORPG.COM's parent company.
NDAs are absolutely enforceable - assuming, of course, the contract is legit. Its just a question of is it worth pursuing($$$).
Beta leaks isn't exactly spying on other companies. Sure, large forums shouldn't encorage things like that, and MMORPG.com want the companies to buy add space but it isn't as bad as you make it sounds.
I don't believe that beta leaks really hurt a game that much unless it have a beta that lasts for years and are very uncomplete in the beginning. The reason that games that have bad betas often sell badly is because they usually luanch in a less then good state, not because people hard crap about it when it was in closed beta.
Wow didn't even have a NDA and it is the most successful MMO ever.
As long as the games have a NDA then this site should keep away from leaks, even though links to other sites that have the leaks is fine in my book. But I honestly think that NDAs are pointless.
Luckily, laws are not based off your gut feelings.
Comments
I don't think I'm allowed to link to leak sites, but I do know of a few that have 3 million plus hits in their few months of existence. Just not 'mainstream' or 'official fansite' sites.
It's funny because those same leak sites have no advertisements at all.
They could just have a disclaimer or the leak could force you to 'sign' a t&c agreement saying you are not an employee or in any way acquainted with an employee of BW/EA/random studio and that revealing any details, info or reporting the leak is breaking such an agreement.
Just because they say 3 million doesn't mean it's true. People who run websites have a desire for users of the website to think the website is popular. It's just self promotion.
I believe it was an embedded wordpress one that was updating in real time so I think it's real.
I would say it's enlightened self interest. Gaming sites that do not at least make the effort to enforce known NDA will probably get less advertising revenue and game information from game publishers. Information, and especially exclusive information about games keeps people on a site longer while they read about the games that interest them. People stay longer, they post on the forums, make the site bigger (in terms of regulars), so the site can get more money from advertisers.
There are also some moral and possibly legal obligations, but it serves the sites themselves to enforce the non-disclosure agreements that they know about.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I still think you're leaning on loose theories and rare exceptions to form your arguments. What happens when mmorpg.com gets sued out the ass and all this hypothetical money gets permadeathed? What happens when they alienate half of their readership due to that half wanting nothing to do with beta leaks? What happens when in the future a 6 month period occurs where no game is coming out to release beta leaks for so then there is no traffic so no ads and no money at all?
I just don't think you're thinking this all the way through. A website like this isn't a get rich quick scheme. It wants to survive long term.
I just don't think you're thinking this all the way through. A website like this isn't a get rich quick scheme. It wants to survive long term.
Publishers don't need to do anything so dramatic. They just don't give interviews to MMORPG.com. That would include other, publicly available information. MMORPG.com would have to link to other sites like Massively.com in order to have articles. Everything else would be opinion pieces and these forums.
If things got really bad, if MMORPG.com was known for having beta leaks and releasing information that wasn't for public consumption, then they might get sued eventually, but I think the drop in readership from the basic tactics would pretty much doom the site. Publishers would just starve it to death.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I think it might have a little to do with those sites having to hold off from doing the same, and having it's members spoiling it when they are able to release their own official reviews/opinions, the impact would be less important if all it's members have already read/formed their opinions months in advance (and because of that would likely also see those site's views as wrong lol).
Sites like this couldn't just break the NDA so willy-nilly and put up a personal reviews today, i'm pretty possitive they would have some sort of lawsuit heading their way if they did.
So what i'm trying to say (sunday morning haze.. ugh) mods here enforce NDA's for their site's own good just as much as whatever game the NDA is applied to.
I am astounded that you continue to fail to discern the fact that leaking NDA information is "wrong" and therefore should not be done.
The failure in ethics in society these days is disheartening to say the least.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A serious newspaper doesnt just disclose any secret information. If it happens, then its usually to uncover some scandal, like fraud or anything like that. They chose to print it because they think that to show the truth to the society outweighs the importance of any confidentiality contract.
So just posting information that clearly violates a games NDA, is not a good enough reason . If a website that takes itself serious would write about NDA breaking information then it would have to be something that they think is important enough to warn their readers about. For example, if a game is close to launch date and is selling preorders and the website learns from a source that there is not much of a game to launch, it could be a reason to inform their readers about this. It would have to be something severe that makes you seriously doubt the game company's credibility.
That kind of information would have to come from a inside source and have a lot of credibility in order for a site to put that up. Someone making such a statement is not enough it has to be credible and valid.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
You do realize that disclosing information while under an NDA is a breach of a legal contract and can actually come with some nasty consequences. Even 3rd party (web sites in this case) need to adhere to that because they are essentially distributing copywrited material to which they have no rights to.
Whistle blowing is completely different because a contract is not legaly enforcable if it involves illegal activity.
(ie. I can't make a written contract for you to go and kill your neighbor then sue you if you don't complete it.)
Also leaks are often hurtful. Beta's are rarely "cutting edge" they are generally a version or two behind where they're actually at in internal testing. You can't tell how buggy or clean the final product will be by a beta. Thing is the average joe doesn't know that and if they see issues they'll be less likely to give it a chance later. Beta's are not there for "sneak peaks" they are there to iron out the wrinkles of a game. Things change real quick pre launch. Just be patient.
So you know of sites in the past that had huge hits with leaks ...
... but ...
... they were only around for a few months.
Wait for it....
.... almost got it...
If the mmo site does not recognize the nda then game companies will be less likely to grant them interviews, previews maybe even beta keys for giveaways.
If the game site wants to have some legitmacy in the industry they are holding discussions for then they need to recognize the rights of those game comapnies.
if players want to break nda's even though they agreed to them then they can form their own sites to do just that. I'm sure there are many.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Trade secrets are protected by US law. If an organization publishes those trade secrets they can be held liable for damages. This is exactly why when the employee from Apple lost the new IPhone no reputable organizations were interested when the guy who found it was trying to sell it. One defense around this is if the trade secret has to do with a matter of public concern(ie. Bioware forces 7 years old to test their games for 48 straight hours).
If you post something on MMORPG.COM both you and MMORPG.COM's parent company are liable. Chances are you have nothing of value, so they go after MMORPG.COM's parent company.
NDAs are absolutely enforceable - assuming, of course, the contract is legit. Its just a question of is it worth pursuing($$$).
Ok. Not sure why you assume I think otherwise. I was argueing why a gaming website doesnt violate NDA's just like that.
Beta leaks isn't exactly spying on other companies. Sure, large forums shouldn't encorage things like that, and MMORPG.com want the companies to buy add space but it isn't as bad as you make it sounds.
I don't believe that beta leaks really hurt a game that much unless it have a beta that lasts for years and are very uncomplete in the beginning. The reason that games that have bad betas often sell badly is because they usually luanch in a less then good state, not because people hard crap about it when it was in closed beta.
Wow didn't even have a NDA and it is the most successful MMO ever.
As long as the games have a NDA then this site should keep away from leaks, even though links to other sites that have the leaks is fine in my book. But I honestly think that NDAs are pointless.
It's not just about losing advertising revenue. They rely on developers for much of their content as well. Access to demos, interviews, etc. You go breaking their rules, and access dries up, then what do you have to publish? The same thing everyone else has access to. As an information content provider you don't want to have to link to other sites interviews, you want to do your own, and if you allow people to break NDA or link to sites that do, well then that access will get restricted, and if you do it too frequently that access could end all together.
I'm just surprised SWTOR still has NDA up. I can understand having NDA on outdated content because the company does not want "out-dated" info to leak out and confuse the community but most of the newer content should be lifted esp being so close to launch.
NDA is a western trend that seems like will never go away. So silly but I guess they don't want to risk losing out on potential box sells.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Dark and Light. Check out that trainwreck, and see how the relationship between a gaming site and a dev company working to suppress informatioin can screw thousands of people out of money. If you look at the forum timeline you will see many people trying to warn others about this game, those threads were often locked. This site maintained an advertising relationship with DnL even after warnings from players that a huge scam was afoot. Sometimes the evil of breaking an NDA contract can do a great service to the gaming community at large.
Why didn't those players wait to pre order or buy the game until after the game was released and all this information was widely and massively available?
Eithe way, your one example is an exception not the rule. Look at the big picture.
The nda patrol around here are a sad bunch imho. Either way it dosn't matter since there are more than enough websites to publish and leak stuff. I surely would do so if I had the impression that company x is trying to hype people into buying something buggy as sh*t.
There is what is legal and there is what you want. Sometimes they don't mesh up well. Mods are protecting their asses, time for people to get over it.
Luckily, laws are not based off your gut feelings.