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Actually 90% of all MMO gamers are the like I would NOT want to play games with
Elikal
Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
In the last 2-3 years, most of my RL friends stopped playing MMOs. People with whom I played along for years in the old days. And these days when I again have series of antisocial jerks in LOTRO I feel like my days in this genre are going to an end too. While I really would WANT to play MMOs... the sort of people I am more and more meeting are the kind of people I NEVER would actually want to spent any spare time hobby with.
I was just in a heated debate in LOTRO Monsterplay. The raid kicked someone who was hearing impaired for not being in TS, I was in a VERY unpleasant debate attacking those raid leaders. The end of the line was that anonymity breeds monsters and apparently F2P attracts the worst kind of people.
Another thing definitely is that soloism also made people arrogant. In the past, say in Everquest, you KNEW you were always dependent on others, because most of the content was dangerous and deadly. You could do few things alone, and if you contiunued to be antisocial, sooner or later you could quit. But these days, where all CAN solo 95% of the time, many swapped to asshole mode, because they know it doesn't really matter. And game companies don't really help.
For SOME strange reasons I really would like to know, the LOTRO community has always been particularly bad. At least here on the German servers. People attack, bitch, bicker, steal mobs... every single bit of MMO netiquette of the past is broken. And sorry to say, if I look at this forum and the endless attacks on each other, it doesn't look much more welcoming. So in evenings like this, when I again had series of jerks ruining my fun in a MMO... I wonder when did it all go down the drain? I mean, there sure is a tad glorification of the past, but by and large I know I did not experience such endless series of flames, mean behavior and harrasment in the past as these days. And I am kinda clueless how to deal with it, other than shutting down all chat channels and playing MMOs alone - which sort of beats the point.
Sigh.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
I been saying this for the last couple years. I agree 100%. MMO gamers have changed ALOT in the last 5-6 years. During Everquest, DAOC, and games before it had computer people. You know the once that could afford a computer and loved them. Treating computer as a hobby and loved a challenge. People that know exactly what a BBS is and maybe even who played BRE. They are just lost memories now and missed the gold ol days.
<Damn I feel old>
For me the three BANES of MMOs are soloism, Teamspeak and F2P.
Soloism made people arrogant, because they do not depend on another.
TS makes people elitarian and kills the open world communities.
F2P destroyes the spirit of long term dedication to games.
I profoundly, passionately hate these three. Not in itself, but because of the damage they do to community spirit.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
This is the way that MMO's are now. There are a lot of douche bags out there. The most you can do is find a guild of like minded people and ignore everyone else.
As far as these forums go this is the way it has been since I started here years ago.
Whats funny though is that game companies years ago were all about inovation and inventing new things. Now its all about greed. Very sad.
I agree with your three points 100%.
The F2P thing is just annoying. I left LOTRO becuase of it.
I agree.
On a side note. In the current MMO i play my guild has a Deaf person that we raid with. He is an exceptional healer and he does like all other raiders, he prepares for fight and knows stategies before hand. Although he might be a rare one, he sure is a pleasure to have around.
I just play minecraft waiting for a good game that will fit me.
The negative attributes you just described are no different in any form of social interaction with anonymity. You will see the same personality traits on forums that have nothing to do with gaming. I see it daily on sports forums, computer forums, etc. It is just a human characteristic displayed in majority with younger people (although not all younger people) who are attempting to be some form of alpha dog in a conversation or situation. As people mature, these characteristics begin to fade.
Personally, I have virtually become immune to these kinds of personality traits. When I see it in chat and on forums, I have no issues with ignoring it as nothing relevent to read.
Greets from a former SysOp.
To the OP. I think you just nailed a great post regarding "toxic" communities. I have little advice to offer other tan staying away from mainstream games. The smaller ones, especially the niche games can be (but not always are) better communities.
Strange but true. In the half year I played Fallen Earth, I never met ONE bad person in the entire time! But the setting was too gloomy for me.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I blame the games, they have become less and less social. In the old days I usually knew which people on my server I don't want to party with and which ones I would.
There were more reasons to interact with other people and that made a better community.
But I blame the need & greed mechanics more than solo quests. The mechanics reward people for being selfish b*stards.
In fact is Guildwars community better than many "real" MMORPGs even though it have more instances than any game. But you can't ninja loot stuff in it and sabotageing for others gives you nothing.
I hope GW2s new loot mechanics, open DEs and none griefing PvP actually will help to improve the communities again.
MMOs needs to find more activities people can do together, small and large groups. The first and simplest thing I want is gambling at taverns, just a friendly game of dice between a gang of people would help to learn to know people.
The dungeon finder tools on the other hand isn't good, at least not if they are cross servers. Those help people ninja loot new groups every day without fear of getting a bad rep on the server.
Agree with the last two but not the first. Since day one of MMOs, there have been people who prefer to play "solo" with minimal interaction with other people. Never seen this as a detriment to the genre.
As far as TS/Vent, I agree. While useful tools, I still don't understand why some guilds make this a requirement on joining. I mean, of the many groups I've been in that have used TS, I couldn't see an advantage. If anything, it was a distraction having to listen to hours of inane non game banter...
F2P: Right there with you. Reason I left LOTRO...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
I don’t get it either. It’s not so bad on the English language servers in LOTRO. I’ve played with some of the nicer random strangers I’ve met in an MMO. Try Laurelin (international) out for a server. I had some great fun there with people from all over the world and met only the occasional, rare, jerk.
Being able to solo quests is simply the evolution of the genre to meet the real life needs of players where people log in for a couple of hours to do something here and there during the work week and then get together for groups on the weekends.
Teamspeak? Voice chat is needed in some MMOs for the large battles and raids,
No, I can’t fault any of that for the antisocial behavior that is widespread in some games. You see it is wide spread in society at large too and I am not surprised to see it bleed into games. If I were to point a finger at causes, it would end up directed at the fast food sense of personal entitlement and lack of respect for other people and their needs that you see on the street every day now. Civility is at an all-time global low… We really just don't like one another much anymore as people.
I don't like to generalize but germans are jerks more than often. I know a handful of good people from Germany, but most of the germans I meet in games ... you can't help but notice. Just sayin'. I've noticed this in a number of FPS games too. I wonder where this all comes from?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Why would you expect to get on with more then 10% of any large section of people? If you assembled a mass crowd of people in the streets, in time I would probably not want to interact with more then a small percentage of them on a regular basis. MMO's are no different.
If you take a large enough subsection, you are going to get a large amount of arseholes.
Having said that, mmos are now trying to cater to a wider audience, a more "quick fix" audience, so I would say that that does indeed lead to a shittier audience in general terms.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
The idea of community has moved from the server to the guild.
Just like group size for content is getting smaller and smaller, games are becoming more and more clique based.
Just like community has evolved from the small town where everyone knows each other to the big city group of like-minded people, alone in a crowd etc.etc. etc.
The "modernization" of society is reflected in MMO games, without a doubt.
Everything is faster and easier and cheaper and better looking thanks to technology.
For all we have gained, plenty has been lost.
And so marches on the never ending never slowing parade of progress....
Immature and nasty people in MMO's are a big reason why I prefer to solo through content and why I tend to be wary about elements like pvp and raiding. I find it funny that despite the outcry from many MMO players about solo content overshadowing group-oriented activites that there is still such a toxic social element in pretty much any mainstream MMO one could think of.
I doubt the day will ever come where I can play an MMO and not once ever cross paths with a person I wish I hadn't but I suppose the best thing decent folks can do is add the bad folks to their ignore list and move on. It's hard for me to accept that there are people out there who take such pleasure in hurting others but I also accept that there's really nothing I can do to change their behavior, just move on and hope they change their ways down the road.
I dunno about this theory.
The people in the street all have their own thing to do. One might be going to eat and back to work and the other is a 80 year old going to the bank. In MMO's the poeple hanging around towns/cities would all be there for only a few specific things and in general needs others to complete that task. Bob does not need Bill to go to the bank or go home to sleep with his wife.
Simple: People (who used to play UO, Everquest, Vanilla WoW) now all have jobs, families, lives. They don't care about MMOs anymore because developers don't care about their customers anymore. I think it's time for you to get a job, wife, house, kids. If you have all that already then it's time to step away from MMOs cause let's be honest, they suck ass.
I think you misunderstand me, or perhaps I explained it badly. I didn't mean if you simply walk down the street you are unlikely to "get on with" many people going about their daily lives. I meant that if you took a cross section of people from the larger general public who you HAD to spend time getting to know, over time you would more then likely only actually get on with a small section of those people and find some others highly objectionable.
In mmos you have a large cross section of people, forced into a relatively small space all trying to do their thing. It's no great surprise that someone would only get on with (in this case 10%) of them.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Its like a circle.
People Solo because of the people that play. MMO companies then make content for this and in return less people group up or do group activities. Less social interaction means less training on grouping with others.
On a side note having crafting professions that rely 100% on other crafting professions helps this a lot. Also being able to craft items that are wanted for both crafting and also questing, instances, raids will make a huge difference.
Games like Vanguard have made a difference in crafting, though sony decided to just run it into the ground.
there is no community in games anymore. All the quest are easy and able to do on your own, anybody you see out questing is just in your way. you dont need anybody unless your doing some easy instance that requires a group, even then you dont even have to chat with the other people because everything is so linear and easy.
pretty much im going to pull out a bat and beat this dead horse a few times.
I blame WoW and all the success it has had, because of it we now have a million other games that are just as dumbed down and easy.
Also i would like to say, NO game should have global chat what so ever. you should only be able to talk to the people you run into and see with your character.
this actually makes meeting people and keeping in contact with them worth it because when your off doing that tough quest and need a healer you might have a few that you have on your friends list...not just spamming chat all day LFG healer.
MMOs are heavily phased and instanced because society as a whole is moving faster and more towards me me me and now now now and faster easier cheaper louder sexier etc.
WoW took what players didn't like about EQ and got rid of it and/or changed it to make it less tiresome and frustrating etc. etc.
Where we are at now is the progression of that path...
Blame it all on EQ man, it was more popular and made more money then UO and the genre followed it's lead.
Except for EvE and SWG the genre followed the EQ path and look what happened.
The genre EXPLODED and now makes more money then King Midas and there are more players then ever... so I guess it was the "right" call but man do I miss some of that open ended game play...
Even though SWG completely sucked donkey c*ck for a lot of reasons.
I guess no MMO has gotten it right since UO. Sad really eh?
That is the lowest of low. probably down there with offending people with down syndrome.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
It is a requirement because they too want to socialize in some way. If you don't want to socialize then why are you in a guild in the first place? It is their preferred mode of communication. It is the equivalent to guild chat only more efficient. I get the sense that you get stronger bonds by talking with your guildies rather than just typing to them.
I ignore or end up hating 99% of the players I meet in games. Still I prefer VOIP programs over any chat. Chat is awkward and just plain inefficient compared to VOIP. I log on to Mumble & TS as often, or more often, than Messenger or IRC.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Totally agree with this Loke. This type of mechanic absolutely breeds animosity and selfishness. I'm sure many have turned to soloing just to avoid it. It's one the main factors in why I prefer to go it alone when I can.