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$300 Welfare Rig
Jimmy_Scythe
Member CommonPosts: 3,586
So It's time for me to build a new PC and I'm trying to challenge myself. To that end I've set the budget at $300. Monitor, keyboard and mouse are not included in the price because I already have all of those things. I'm also not factoring in the case or power supply since I'm just planning on gutting an old donor computer. Most older, off the shelf machines have and ATX form factor and a 400W power supply, so why pay top dollar for something I get by combing yard sales and dumpster diving for.
The first step is to choose a game to build for. I'm kind of thinking about using the recommended set-up for Hard Reset, The Witcher 2, Rage, or Battlefield 3. I want one set up that will potential run them all at medium settings. Since none of these games need more than 4 Gigs of Ram I'll probably just drop $30 for 4 Gigs of DDR3 at the highest speed that the motherboard would support, and I'll probably spend an extra $30 on an AMD CPU like the Athlon II x4. The only real question left is the graphics card(s).
Do I just get something like a Geforce 9800 or Radeon 5570? Or do I go for two cheap Radeon 4850s with Crossfire? SLI is out of the question since 1) there aren't that many SLI motherboards out there and 2) SLI motherboards cost way more than Crossfire X motherboards.
Maybe you guys could come up with something better on that budget. . . .
Comments
Go with an Athlon II X2 (about $60) or Phenom II X3 (about $75), a AM3+ motherboard (about $70), and 4G of DDR3 RAM ($30)
That leaves you ... about $150 for a video card. That puts you in the ATI 6770/6850 area, and the nVidia 550 - maybe 560 region. The 6850 or 560 would be your best options, whichever you could get to squeeze into that budget, although for the 560 you'd probably be relying on rebates and/or sales to get it in there.
You will have the capacity to upgrade the CPU all the way to the latest Zambezi when it ships, that's your biggest bottleneck with this suggestion, and that will significantly help the computer. The Athlon II or Phenom II will run stuff, but you will be able to measure (and in some cases notice) the bottleneck they provide, even with a $150 video card.
I don't know what 400W power supply your using, that's a big question mark. Your budget can't really afford anything that would significantly stress a good 400W, but a poor 400W could make this whole build just an exercise in RMAing parts over and over.
You don't want Crossfire or SLI either one. Even if you got the video cards for free, your power supply would have a hard time, your case would need to be set up for it (ventilation-wise) and you'd need a much more expensive motherboard. Plus your at the mercy of drivers to enable and optimize for the extra performance from the second GPU, and that can take weeks or months after a game ships to get.
I actually thought about buying a $30 case and a 500W power supply (about $50), but I could just swap out the power supply in a donor case for $20.
I'm not totally strict with the $300 price. I'm willing to be within $20 over/under my budget. So a 120mm fan for cooling wouldn't be an issue unless there was no place to fit it in the case.
I'd also like to keep the CPU and the graphics cards as close as possible to eachother in price. Hell, I could buy a cheap bare bones kit and put a $60 Geforce GT 520 and call it a day. But the idea is to try and get the highest power to price ratio that I can achieve on this budget. That's why I was looking at somthing along the lines of two Radeon HD 5450s. I'm hoping that the whole would be greater than the sum of the parts.
Also, I'm hoping that low profile parts will make for a cooler running rig. Worst come to worst, I can always make a water cooling system out of car parts ;-)
Exactly which components do you need? It sounds like you need a motherboard, processor, and video card. How about OS, memory, optical drive, or hard drive?
If you want the best performance per dollar that you can get on a very tight budget, then try a Radeon HD 5670 with GDDR5 memory:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102871
That kind of sums it up.
I haven't build a rig since 2007, so I'm a little lost. I'm pretty sure that I can put an Socket AM3 CPU in an AM3+, but I'm not sure I have to go there since I've seen the AMD Phenom II X6 is an AM3. Being able to upgrade and expand this thing is key. I want something that I can build cheap, and improve over time.
I've been eyeballing that graphics card quite a bit to be honest. I've also been wondering if I should just buy a decent used Dual Core computer for $100 and then just plug a $200 GeForce GTX 560 into it. I can't really do that with a bare bones kit because I end up going way over budget when I do that.
I'm canabalizing my old DVD burner, but I really don't see the point. Most of the games I get anymore are over Steam or GoG.com. Even the stuff that isn't available on Steam is available for download somewhere else.
The OS isn't a problem at this point because I'll be starting on Windows XP Home Edition, which you can download for free. I figure next month I'll have enough to pick up Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit OEM for $100. Hence the 4 Gigs of memory instead of the 2 Gig maximum that XP can handle.
For right now, this is kind of a proof of concept project. Once I've proven that you CAN make a decent gaming rig for a little more than a console, I'll be ramping this thing up into the $500-$700 performance range.
Here's what I have if I build the whole thing from scratch:
Asus M4N68T-M V2 Motherboard $55
AMD ADX250OCGMBOX Athlon II X2 250 Dual Core Processor $60
PNY Optima MD4096SD3-1333 Desktop Memory Module $23
Seagate ST500DM002 Barracuda 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - 500GB $40
ZOTAC ZT-98GES5P-FDL GeForce 9800 GT Video Card $30
Cooler Master RC-310-RWN1-GP Elite 310 Mid-Tower Case $40
Coolmax / V-500 / 500-Watt / ATX / 120mm Fan / SATA-Ready / 20/24 Pin / Power Supply $20
Total = $268
The only problem is with the graphics card here. It's basically the same card that was in my old laptop and that thing could run Crysis at 45fps on medium settings. I have another $20 to play with here and I'm kind of wondering if it would be worth it to go with a GT 220 or even GT 520 with 1GB.
You can put an AM3 CPU in an AM3+ motherboard, but you can't put an AM3+ CPU in an AM3 motherboard.
So yes, the Phenom II X6 is AM3, and it would work in either motherboard, but the new Zambezi CPU's that are coming out now are AM3+, and there is a good chance the next generation of AMD CPU's will also use AM3+, and those won't work in an older AM3 motherboard (such as the one you have picked out).
The upgrade from AM3 to AM3+ would be a worthwhile investment of your $20. However, I think you will be disappointed with either nVidia 220 or 520 cards.
My other plan was to buy a barebone kit and stick a GTX 550 Ti in it. I would go a little over budget, but it seems like nVidia cardd have to have a -50 on them to be suitable for gaming while the Radeon cards have to have a --70 in the number. Not sure if that's the way that the two companies denote gaming cards, as opposed to multimedia cards, or not.
Hmmm, i dont know where you came up with that idea lol but the 6850 is the one of the best "$/Power" cards on the market, and a referenced 6950 can flash to be the same as a 6970.
Two fatal problems with that build:
1) You need two memory modules.
2) The power supply is garbage.
If you see this while it is $30 after rebate, grab it:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371046
If you missed the sale, get this instead:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1143934&CatId=5430
In your price range, Nvidia has nothing competitive. If you want to stretch the budget a bit, get this:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=869628&CatId=7005
If not, then get a 5670 with GDDR5. That is easily double the performance of a GT 220 or GT 520.
I think I'm about to give this one to the console fanboys. You just can't build a decent gaming rig for the same price as a PS3. I'm sure that I could easily run Modern Warfare 2 on something along the lines of an Acer AX1420G, but you probably won't be able to run anything along the lines of Battlefield 3 on it. Oh yeah, and that machine costs MORE than a console.
After combing the internet for advice and configuring for the target games, the closest that I could get to the target budget was just under $400. And that's before installing an operating system. Here's what I've gotten so far:
ASUS M5A78L-M LX AMD Socket AM3+ Motherboard
AMD ADX250OCGMBOX Athlon II X2 250 Dual Core Processor - 3.00GHz
Kingston KHX1333C9D3B1/4G Desktop Memory Module - 4GB
VisionTek 900367 Radeon HD 6750 Video Card
Western Digital WD1002FAEX 1TB Caviar Black Hard Drive
PowerUp G54-8019 Executive ATX Mid-Tower Case
450W Power Supply
And that will probably run just about anything at medium settings. The problem is that after you add the OS, Windows 7 64-bit, and a low end monitor, you go so far over budget that it just makes more sense to buy an XBox 360 or PS3 at a quarter of the price.
So can we please ditch this bullshit that PC gaming is just as affordable, or even as desireable, as console gaming? Even when I build my own rig, choosing the cheapest parts I can find, I'm unable to reach the PC gaming standard config without going over the $300 budget AND canabalizing the input and display from a previous build. If your trying to build your first PC, you're going to spend WAY more than you would on a console that you can just hook up to a TV that you already own.
I hear PC fanboys constantly talking about how you don't need a high end system for PC gaming, but they also tend to talk down to anyone that doesn't have a certian minimum system spec. Like the guy above that ejaculated about his triple monitor setup. It's velvet rope syndrome taken to a fucking obnoxious level.
Just once, I'd like to hear a PC purist admit that they were just fucking elitist. I won't ask that you admit to being groundlessly elitist, that would be to much truth for you to speak, but I would just like to hear the raw truth for a change. Behind all the insults, baiting, and bantering, it all boils down to what's under the hood more than what's on the screen. It's more about the cash you poured into the box, and less about actually playing the games.
Just a quick note on displays.....I play my xbox 360, and my PC on the same 32 inch TV so you can't include display in your price rant. also i do agree with some of your points, but the way you chose to state them makes it seem like this whole post was just a bait so you could bitch at people that tried to help you. I play MMO's on PC (because they don't have good ones on consoles) and all other games on my xbox. You need to calm down. Gaming isn't that serious.
The PC is more of an initial investment than a console but once you get past that there is no comparison to be honest.
Have you thought about the new AMD APUs? I made a little list up for you. Yes I used 1 recertified product from new egg but why not try to get a deal when you can..
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147023
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103942
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157261
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817152019
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148699 << edited Hard drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820576002
This set up came to ~$321 with shipping for me. It is AMDs best APU with awesome intergrated graphics esentically giving you 4 cores + AMD Radeon HD 6550 for 139$. If there was anything I would improve on this it would be maybe a more known power supply and maybe some better RAM.
Edit: woops looks like the hard drive is IDE haha. well bump the price up another 20 or so for a low priced sata.
Lol, random rant of the day winner.
PS. Sorry it took so long to respond, the word processor on the XBox isn't too hotThe whole APU thing passed me by to be honest. I haven't built a rig since around 2007/2008. I'm going to google and find out what's what there.
I didn't mean to go into rant mode, but outside of this forum I've run into more fucking snobs using their rig as some kind of overcompensation for their obvious character flaws than I care count or remember. I wasn't attacking anyone here, but the more I dig into this project the more I kind of get why console players hate PC gamers. To get in the club, or stay in it in my case, you have to deal with the most insufferable assholes and douchebags this side of 4chan. It's no wonder why so many people just leave the PC to itself. PC gaming rocks, but the more vocal of PC gamers suck.
I've appreciated the help that I've gotten. And I've even met a few all around gamers like myself that really couldn't give a fuck less what a game is played on so long as the game is good. But the PC purists have got to fucking go. If we want PC gaming to grow and to thrive, we have to put this dickheads in their place. Otherwise, the community will just grow smaller and smaller until the only thing we're left with are iPhone games.
Okay, now for my dumb questions. . . .
This build doesn't require a discrete graphics card?
Can I even put a discrete graphics card in this thing without disabling the graphics core?
Can I use this with a crossfire ready Radeon card?
That motherboard is awefully small, couldn't I save a little money by using a compact form factor rather than a mid tower case?
I can always shave costs by canabalizine the case and power supply off of a junker or bench beast, but your build hits the closest to the mark so far.
You are right about nerds getting elitist about computers, I always start by deciding the price I will pay, then just get the best I can for the money, if you ask for advice the graphics card alone costs more than my budget.This build would not require a discrete graphics card. You can put most Radeon 6000 series graphics cards(I think the max is 6670?) into them I believe.. The APU and discrete GPU can "smart" crossfire to improve performance. Yes you could probably save money on the case, personally I have had bad experience with really cheap cases so I put the Rosewill in there because of the 2 fans and they make quality products(I even have a cheap 6 dollar gaming headset/mic from rosewill thata has lasted me 2 years now heavily gaming).
Word of advice for welfare rigs....
You can usually get a pretty decent free case and power supply from a recycling center near you. If your lucky you may even find some parts worth salvaging!
Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!
as tight as your budget is, i'd still spend alittle more on the powersupply. it's the one thing that will protect the rest of your rig. i'd use a used hard drive before i use a questionable powersupply. at least when the hard drive crashs, it doesnt take the rest of the system with it:D
I've only had one power supply got out on me and it just stopped working. It didn't fry anything. It just didn't turn on. Aside from the power supply that I used to replace the one that burned out, all of my power supplies came with the cases.
To put that into perspective, consider the fact that I started building computers in 1996 and I've only had about three cases. So thats about five years per case and only one gave out on me. Power supplies are usually not something that worry to much about.
I'm totally elitist and I'll admit it. I hate console controllers, I love keyboard/mouse, I love that I can upgrade hardware and see better graphics in my older games (even those that were previously maxed, with stuff like MLAA and Eyefinity). And I love that I get to build them myself and tinker with them, which is my absolute favorite part.
I totally hate console ports on the PC. Almost without exception I find them inferior to PC only games in terms of graphics, UI, controls, customability, and/or addons.
I totally love good graphics. Stick a good story with them and I'll play the game for hours, days, weeks... They don't have the be the best, they just have to be good enough to keep me entertained. I have been known to buy games just because I want to drool over the graphics (although unless they have a good story I don't play them long).
The problem is, that computer hardware spans a really big range performance-wise, but not price-wise - especially at the lower end of the hardware spectrum. You can't build a computer that is as crappy as the specs are in the consoles that can play games (because integrated graphics just can't), but on the flip side, a typical $800 gaming computer today is probably 10x faster than a console, and can still be upgraded even farther. But if you spend much less than that you end up with a PC that can't game at all.
PC gaming only becomes more "Economical" when you consider the fact that you can do a lot more than just game on a PC - it can do other entertainment and work loads as well. And there isn't a console out that just farts around on the internet as well as a PC, or does all internet content like a PC does - even a low end netbook can do internet stuff better than a console by far.
If your just looking to game - console is the best choice, I have to agree. One box does it all, you don't have to ever upgrade it, fight with drivers, or worry about your box becoming obsolete (at least until "next-gen" comes out). The problem I have with that is that almost invariably gaming is not the only thing I want to do - I love having a web browser open while I game, or watch a movie on my second monitor, or run several instances of the at same time and multi-box. And most of my favorite games are PC-only anyway.
You want a $300 system? Here you go:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103955
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157277
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820576003
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136770
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119118
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106289
Total: $271, excluding peripherals.
Also, you're going to run Linux. I hope you like Wine.
With peak power consumption around 100 W, the cheap junk power supply probably won't even fry the system. Probably.
That will run most but not all games at moderate settings. Except for when you can't get Wine to work, that is. That might not be your goal, but the hardware in consoles can't do that, either.
Also this is a bit late in the thread, but:
For both nVidia and ATI, the first number is the generation of video card
5xx for nVidia is the current latest generation, 4xx was last year. nVidia jumped from 9000 to 200 about 3 years ago.
6xxx for ATI is the current generation, 7xxx is due out soon, 5xxx was last year's. ATI had some goofy numbering schemes several years ago, but has been pretty faithful since the 1000 series started
For nVidia the second number indicates relative power of the card in that generation.
A 550 is more powerful than a 520, for instance. The x60/x70/x80 are usually the gaming editions,, the x20/x30 the low end parts, the x50 the main stream consumer card, and the x90 is usually the ultimate super high end part.
The last number for nVidia is usually just used to distinguish between specific builds of a specific card, like the 280GTX vs 285GTX
For ATI it's a bit different. The second number denotes what family of chip (basically chip type), and roughly the higher the number the better the performance. And the third number is the relative performance.
So the 66xx and lower are the budget lines right now, the 67xx and 68xx are the main stream lines, and the 69xx series is the gaming/enthusiast line.
The third number denotes relative performance within that family, so a 6850 and a 6870 are the same family, and use the same chip, but the 6870 is clocked faster and has more shaders unlocked.
ATI rarely uses the final number.
There are also suffixes:
nVidia usually will use GTX or "Ultra" to denote high end builds of a specific model, GX or GT to denote main stream builds, and GS for value or budget builds. There were 3 or 4 different models of the 460 for instance: The 460 GTX, the 460 SE, the and the 460 GTX OEM - and all 3 of them performed radically different. In the current generation there is the 560GTX and the 560Ti GTX, with a minor performance difference.
ATI has gotten away from suffixes lately, and just uses the model number with the HD moniker on everything.
Both sides will add a "m" or "Mobility" to denote a laptop or low-power edition GPU. You can expect roughly half the performance.
Both companies have been known to recycle chips from previous generations. The nVidia 8800GTS went on to be rebranded as the 9800GT/GTX and 9600GTO, and then again as the GTS240 OEM and 250GTS, and then again as a mobile chipset GTX285M- basically the same chip with minor changes. ATI essentially just rebranded the 5770 as the 6770.
Really it's utterly confusing, and the video card people want it that way so they can overcharge consumers who can't keep up with all the lingo. It's an embarrassment for the PC community if you ask me. And these are just generalizations, there are more exceptions to these rules than there are cards that follow them. Really, benchmarks and performance data are the only things that anyone should use to differentiate between video cards, because you really can't tell much by the name or model number, and the market teams do their best to keep it that way.
Lol, the kid is so butthurt that his little plan didn't work out that he doesn't realize how bad he made himself look