Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
So it has come to this
Torgrim
Member CommonPosts: 2,088
Themepark MMOs are being made in a industrial speed, people buy the box, play for the free month and unsub and waiting for the next big thing.
The sandbox crowd are trying out the sandbox games out there but most are failing due to it's a small budget indi company who has a great vision but lack the funding.
So basicly what we got as I see it, endless themepark clone games and broken sandbox games is the MMORPG scene.
What has happend to a genre that could have been the best gaming experience of all time turned to this?
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Comments
The Humungus rules the wasteland.
Have a sense of humor, no need to get ALL MODDY !
A Simpson's quote shouldn't be worth a warning. You are lucky anyone is bothering to read this rag.
Please explain what you're lookng for if you can't find a single game out of the bazillion games out there to play.
Capitalism.
You have a comination of game developers and powergamers who love the single player themepark game, and they have dominated the "conversation" both on message boards and in boardrooms.
The rest of us want something bigger. They don't believe in that. They refuse to accept us as "the masses", and are seemingly willing to go down with the ship over it.
Once upon a time....
I see a pattern.
You have a comination of game developers and powergamers who love the single player themepark game, and they have dominated the "conversation" both on message boards and in boardrooms.
The rest of us want something bigger. They don't believe in that. They refuse to accept us as "the masses", and are seemingly willing to go down with the ship over it.
I think the masses want themeparks, but I am sure some of those might like a decent sandbox if they tried one.Well the new pattern for companies nowdays are not to earn money via subs it's via boxsales and that is something I find very desturbing.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Someday, a large company is gonna remember that mmos started out with a vision to becoming a virtual world in which players are a componant thereof, instead of being just a tourist. They ability to change the world has got to be a part of this.
The masses don't know what they want, they are TOLD what they want.
Just got to point this out most "sandbox" games fail not because they are from indy companies but because like 99% of them think sandbox means open pvp gank fest.
Also I think SWTOR release will have a large effect on MMOs either good, bad, ugly or some cominations of the three.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
I'm more concerned about my lack of flying car and robot butler.
This is the 21st century, folks.
... seriously though, things almost always seem more amazing and more possible in the early stages. People used to think we'd have AI licked before the 21st century ever came around.
We landed on the moon, but where's our space colonies and Mars terraforming?
That's just the way things work. It's usually never quite as easy as people imagine it'll be.
Things advance in ways people don't expect. We don't have robot butlers, but our cellphones are freaking amazing.
Just look at all the amazing advancements in uh... themepark MMO technology, that people couldn't even picture in the days of UO! Why, some games are so advanced they can play themselves FOR you, from fighting to running between quest points!
The answer is corporate gaming. Just like corporate TV, corporate music, corporate movies... dumb it down to make the largest amount of people happy and spend huge amounts on advertising to sway public opinion into thinking that the products are worth owning, watching, playing.
So what are we left with? Dumbed down single-player RPG with a multiplayer lobby and instanced mini-games.
* applause *
I really wish they'd add a +1 button to this forum.
Dumbing down all entertainment media dumbs down the population.
I dunno, I think it's fair to say that the masses generally want things cheap and easy.
If you tried telling the masses that they want to read War and Peace and spend 50 dollars on a steak, you'd probably still get them reading Twilight novels and eating at McDonalds. No matter how much you sink into advertising. Which is precisely WHY they don't sink a lot of money into advertising things that people wouldn't pick from anyway.
When you're watching pro wrestling, you don't see a lot of commercials for high end luxury cars and exotic, extremely expensive sushi boat houses.
Yeah, advertising influences people's buying habits, but only within the stratum which they're oriented towards. (Same reason you may see say... a commercial for Burger King next to a commercial for McDonalds, but you won't see it next to say... a commercial for the local high end French restaurant)
I would say that most people are more comfortable with the current type of themepark design, than they would be with the current sandbox design. They're designed to be cheap and easy. They're relatively quick to get into, and not challenging to understand on any level.
So it's not 'By advertising my themepark, I beat out sandboxes' (Because that's not even your competition), it's 'by advertising my themepark, I beat out the other themeparks'.
Isnt it beacuse we are deluded with all the hype and ads and not acual feeling what the games are?
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
What do you mean by "feeling" what the games are?
Most people look to games in general as an escape from hum drum live but they still aren't looking for the gaming eqivilant of MacBeth.
The industry as a whole has moved a way from the immersive world to the shallow "train track" .
When you see two guys in garage make a game about birds bombing pigs and millions of people buy it for 5 dollars a piece and your next big games cost the GDP of many small countries and you are charging 60 bucks you gotta wonder if you aren't doing something wrong.
""But Coyote, you could learn! You only prefer keyboard and mouse because that's all you've ever known!" You might say right before you hug a rainforest and walk in sandals to your drum circle where you're trying to raise group consciousness of ladybugs or whatever it is you dirty goddamn hippies do when you're not busy smoking pot and smelling bad."
Coyote's Howling: Death of the Computer
Nerovipus32 is correct that the masses don't know what they want, especially when it comes to specifics. Most don't want to get into that much detail, but we know that there are a great many comments that players do want "something different".
I think that's a world instead of a game, and that spells Sandbox instead of Themepark.
We have two major productions coming soon, SWTOR and GW2. Both are quality productions. Both are going to follow the general Themepark design and both will lose subs fast after players try them out and find this to be the case. And everyone will see that Themepark is not what players want anymore. It was only good for new gamers (outside of those powergamers that love single player games), but those new gamers have experienced that now and found it wanting. That's the reason for all the comments and complaints.
So all the players, used to be new to MMORPGs, have founf them wanting, and want something different and more advanced. They may not know that Sandbox (and I mean a quality product) is actually what they want, they may not want to think that deeply about it, but that is the case.
Yes, I know, this is only my opinion. And no doubt, after what I'm saying comes to pass, no one will remember me. I'm fine with that, I don't remember me either.
Once upon a time....
While I do prefer sandbox over themepark, I think your wrong in your assessment of SWTOR and GW2. Lately, all the theme parks that have come out where either unfinished or followed too closely to another game. SWTOR and GW2 both have elements that set them apart, not to mention two big name developers behind them who have so far shown they know what they are doing. (Though, SWTOR is a little light on showing compared to GW2 imo).
Also, GW2 can't really lose subs. GW2 is just a better version of GW1 which is still very active.
SWTOR is also likely to be the first mmorpg to many console players who have become fans of TOR and BioWare in general, which will be a big advantage.
I didnt even think of that side of it. And I agree for the most part. Its a themepark so any new people to MMO's coming from games like KOTOR or any of Biowares other games shouldn't have too hard of a time enjoying it and figuring it all out. And the fact that it has companions which other MMO's really havnt had too much of, as well as a personal story, housing, and decisions that semi matter. I think it will last much longer. (Not to mention the budget compared to the recent batch of Themeparks cant even compare).
But in the end, I dont like how the game looks too much from the beta footage from NYCC, but I'll reserve a more definitive judgment until I can play it myself and really feel the game. But I really am hyped more for GW2 and AA and a little bit on the side for TSW.
The pollution of the MMORPG genre by other gaming genres is simple business. In the end, everything costs money - they need to turn a profit - etc.
Look at MMORPGs these days and tell me what you see. How about I tell you what I see?
MMORPGs used to be long term investments in time (and thus a sub). They are now more like single player offline games. You buy the box, you hit level cap in less than a week...kind of like you finish those single player games in less than a week (the majority of them).
What do many of those single player games offer then? Well, they offer game lobby access to multiplayer gaming online. Whether you're looking at a FPS, RTS, or some co-op RPG - tada, you get some online action for what you paid for the box. Hrmm, game lobby action? Kind of like sitting in a city while queuing for an instanced dungeon/raid or PvP, eh?
There's always a new single player game coming out around the corner, so you're going to jump over and play that game. Wait, was that a new single player game or a new MMO around the corner? Oh yeah... right.
Course, running a MMO costs more than running those game lobbies for single player games. BUT - people do not pay a sub for those. They might buy some DLC or other stuff from time to time, but they do not pay a sub. Oh wait, there you go - what if we did not charge a sub for a MMO - but instead we sold DLC and you know, other things?
Yep, so what I see...there is no MMORPG genre any more...
...it's just some hybrid version of the single player game lobby DLC genre.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
I'm a bit leary of Funcom, but that can't stop me from getting excited for TSW... for what it could , for what I want it to be... we'll see what it actualy ends up being
I think you've confused 'MMORPG.com forum poster' with 'MMO gamer'. The former is a subset of the latter. The latter buys their box, plays their game and has fun. More than likely, Themepark and Sandbox were never a thought in their purchase decision or playing patterns.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Oh same here, thats why its not up there with GW2, SWTOR, and AA for me. I rode the fail bus that was AoC at launch so now I certainly will not buy TSW until its launched and I can read and youtube some feedback on the game. I'll be pretty excited if they pull it off though, and it will certainly bring some shine back to their name.