Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
The changing trend in how MMO 'Guilds' are formed.
jpnz
Member Posts: 3,529
After my friend's WoW guild drama-bombed to obvilion a month ago, I took an interest in some of the 'long term' guilds in various MMOs and how they avoid dramas.
I've talked to some GL/Officers/support guy (normally the guy that handles the website/vent/mumble etc) and even normal members. I love Google Cache. 
So, what are some of the things that these 'long term' guilds have in common?
Long term guilds tries to / or was forged from outside of the game in which it was formed. This creates a common bond that will make people hesitate when drama occurs as there is something else to consider. If the guild was formed exclusively in-game and no out of game relationship was formed, the only common bond is that MMO. And if drama related to that MMO happens, there is nothing left to hold the guild together.
The actual frequency of drama is pretty similar across all types of guilds that I've managed to talk to. This was actually surprising as I would have thought 'Hardcore' would have more.
In conclusion, I'd like to state that it is important to acknowledge that 'Guilds' are nothing more than a group of people, thus it can seemingly unravel in a blink of an eye. But having a lot of 'bonds' or connections will help out when the 'SH-- hits the fan'.
I am seeing more people finding a community then selecting an MMO that a subset of that community wants to play and forming a guild, TEST/GS in EVE-Online or Clan1g.net / Penny Arcade guild in WoW.
Question to this community is, do you agree with my conclusion?
If so, will you try to find a community outside of the game first?
I'm part of a local 'Barcraft' community (which means going to a bar twice a week and watch starcraft2 with other nerds) as I was one of the first few to attend one, along with providing the 'hardware' (my personal laptop) to see what the reaction will be.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Comments
All of the "long term" guilds I've been in had some simple properties in common--an adult, easy-going GL who made it clear that drama wouldn't ever be tolerated, and no fear of saying "goodbye" to people that did not "fit". And more selectivity than "You answered a random broadcast, you're in!"
Hardcore guilds aren't really any more drama-prone than casual ones, provided they squash loot tantrums before they happen.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
This + 1.
My latest guild in latest mmorpg I've played, was long-existing before I joined, and after I left the game (after over a year of playing) guild was in very good condition still. Best thing is guild was not even advertising itself at all.
Guild members were just bringing people they knew or meet in game. Though one was very clear : It does NOT matter if this person is your best friend in RL, if he start doing dramas, flames or just be a douche, he will be kicked.
Guild was not very strict, first officer / guild master was talking with an offender, but it this talk went bad or there was not change in behaviour then kick.
I think the OP is onto something. I was in a Guild for years that had virtually no drama and it was formed by a group of people who knew eachother IRL. Plus I got my invite from 2 of my RL friends. So it was kind of this mesh of groups of friends who just wanted to enjoy the game at their own pace.
Another thing that was key was the willingness to help. If someone needed help most would come at the drop of a hat. Events were planned like any other guild but the truly great adventures were when it just happened. One person would need help then 2-3 would come help, then everyone else would want to see what the fuss was about. After that we'd just move onto helping someone else since we were all together and having fun.
Finally I think another key part was the fact that at 21 I was the youngest person in the guild other than a 15 year old whose dad and grandpa were also in the guild. Most people were working adults with life responsibilities so most were understanding that life happens and the game was not the end all be all.
My guild was the best:
6 real life friends. Everyone else was/is expendable....just like the real world when it comes to businesses =D
Here's the trouble I've always had with guilds.
I have a core group of friends that I've met in the game - when I was new and didn't even know what a raid or heroic dungon was - and now know them outside of the game as well. We were a casual bunch that occasionally did things together in the game, but had the time of our life chatting and having events from time to time. Some of those friends, for lack of a better phrase,were very unskilled. Our guild leader was a 'keyboard turner' and couldn't use WASD to save his life. Of course, that didn't matter since they many folks really didn't like to do dungeons and some of the more difficult or challenging aspects anyways. They were perfectly fine fishing on the dock of Stormwind, crafting or running the lowbies through dungeons. Oh, and they were immensely helpful with anything you ever needed. Nicest folks on the planet. I couldn't dream of ever leaving such a great group of people.
A group of us in the guild wanted to see more of the game. So we tried to schedule guild raids/heroics. We scheduled them, posted links, guides and did everything we could to prepare the 'less skilled' folks that signed up. It didnt' work and we failed miserably. At first our guild was very excited that someone was going to show them the ropes but then they realized that they had a lot more fun doing what they did before and the whole raiding/heroic thing fizzled out.
The only way that those of us that wanted to see more content could do so was to team up with another guild that was more committed to raiding. This meant that we had to take our mains out of the guild, while leaving alts there. We hated to do it, but we had no choice since most of my friends were never going to do raiding or any type of difficult aspect of the game. They were social players and didn't want to deal with the frustration.
So is a guild a family...
Or is a guild a team.
I'd love to say it's both, but that's not always the case. When your guild is filled with friends from all backgrounds it's hard to expect that they all will want to raid or do the harder content.
I wish my main could have been in multiple guilds at the same time. I'm in multiple Facebook groups for multiple causes...there shouldn't be a reason I can't be in multiple guilds.
------------------------------------------------------------
TL;DR - Guilds that have bonds outside the game DO last longer, except for when the game requires you to leave that guild to find a raiding/pvp guild if you want to experience more of the game (raiding or pvp). Being able to have multiple guilds at once would aleviate this.
@MMOtoGO
That's why I am a bit tired that many mmorpg's nowadays are shrinked to a graphical lobbies used to queue for dungeons / raids. I mean there is nothing wrong with that in itself, but problem is there are no mmorpg's that offer something else (bar very old ones and / or indie).
When someone finishing their journey (levelling) and some easier dungeons, but he does not want to make a commitment to do hard dungeons / raids, then he has nothing left to do. While it is possible to have some other content in game that provide alot of fun and activities, it was possible in some previous mmorpg's.
Many people like that (like your friends who were just fishing) had fun in some previous mmorpg's when crafting - but then crafting MEANT something and most people were not crafters / had alts made just for crafting, there was much land to exploration cause, open world was bigger and not so walled with artifical walls.
There were open housing, player stores where 'rented' NPC's sold your loot and / or crafted things and could also buy some items for fixed price.
There were taming, hobbies, etc
Just alot things to do apart of running raids
You could see alot of content and have lot to do and not raid at all or raid just very casually.
--------------------------
MORE on TOPIC:
I tend to roll on RP servers. Not because I RP myself, cause I don't, but because atmosphere is more relaxed and there is less people who are just douchebags, sometimes there are rules against having idiotic names (like "Ipwnyourmom") and there is less drama, etc
Having connections outside of one particular game making a guild more stable makes a lot of sense to me. Having your guild be comprised of people who know each other outside of gaming is something else that can add to stability to the guild, even if it doesn't add stability to the lives of the members.
I've kind of thought in-game guilds should be treated more like Facebook groups by the game companies (e.g. allow people to join multiple groups, have 'open' guilds where you can join or leave just by choosing to do so, etc.). They should keep the standard guild style going (e.g. invite only, can't join any other invite only guild, etc.) because I think there's a need for that type of guild, obviously, but I think there's also a need for the more temporary type of groups.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
As someone part of a MMO gaming I can specifically tell you the advantages of being part of one. The OP is pretty much right on the ball:
1. Hierarchy and Structure - Each guild functions on it's own with it's own leaders and set of rules, but there is an extra pillar in place that prevents things from falling apart. If a guild is having problems about a specific situation they can call upon the community manager or other guild leaders for advice in handling the situation. There are also specific set of rules all chapters of the community to follow. Changes in guild leadership can be handled with minimum drama. If members don't like a particular leader they can bring it up with the community manager personally and have a change in leadership without causing issues that would arise normally like a complete dismantling of the guild as a result.
2. Centralized Website - Since all chapters of the community use a single website for news and forums, significantly more resources and time could be spent on the website and functionality without costing the individual chapters more time.
3. Having bonds outside of any particular game - League of Legends for example is a popular cross-chapter game we play, and we've played F2P too. If any member becomes bored with a particular game or can no longer play as much due to time constraints they can still stay with the community. A member can easily switch chapters from one game to another. Having a community outside a particular game helps with two problems in particular. A single player isn't quite as obligated to fill their slot in a particular MMO, so losing an important member won't necessarily have as much an effect on the guild, and that player who may be an outstanding player will be to play within other chapters of the guild. For example a player might grow bored of Rift and be interested in SW:TOR, that player can then switch chapters to SW:TOR and will most likely wind up playing with some old Rift players in the community anyway who moved on to TOR. There is no reason to leave the community outside a particular game, and if they don't like SW:TOR they could always go back to Rift.
4. Larger community - While specific chapters generally communicate with themselves, you have a much bigger pool of players to communicate with outside of your particular game. This means that forum activity is higher and thus more people are likely to spend time on the forums forming bonds outside of the game. You have more players to play with in other multiplayer games that may not be your particular MMO. You also have a much higher chance of getting people together at real life events such as PAX.
5. Recruitment is easier - Having an established community with an established website simply makes recruitment for upcoming MMOs much much easier. It's also significantly easier to get into a beta when you are a member of a community/guild.
Pretty much exactly how my guild is. We are a community of friends and family.
My theme song.
The fact that A Tale in the Desert allowed you to belong to multiple guilds was a great asset for the players. It allowed me to particiapate in many different activities without having to make choices on who I wanted to hang out with in-game.
Both FF MMOs allow this too. I believe Guild Wars 2 is going to allow it also.
Well I have been playing allot and I definatly know what it means to be the best guild of the server,
Very strict rules:
1. you must join every graid
2. 7 graids a week
3. if you are not online when a graid is comming you must post the reason, if not gkick
4. you fail at listening to what you must do gkick
5. being afk in raid gkick
6. fail(pull of mobs, not standing on the right spot) gkick
7. not prepared(engineers no repair bots, warlocks not enough ss) gkick
8. talking while raiding gkick, you only roll and talk in personal message, gleader gives commands.
9. reaction time too slow of listening to command. gkick
spots in guild: 100
This sounds like the worst guild ever.
My only hang up with multiple guilds and what I have seen in both FF games is the lack of guild progression and the drama that is created when people just become inactive in the guild because they are always chatting it up in other guilds. It's less work for the people running the guild if they just quit the guild rather than making us go through and guild kick them.
My theme song.
Having been in numerous top server guilds and have been raiding since the EQ days, I have to say this is completely wrong.
1. Accurate to an extent, if you are online you must join every guild raid. High attendance is expected out of you, but 100% attendance is not.
2. No, even the more hardcore end game raiding guilds typically only raid 4-5 days a week.
3. Accurate to an extent again, but there is plenty of room for leniency here.
4. Depends on what it is you failed at listening at. Repeating the same mistake over and over results in a gkick usually, but nobody is perfect.
5. Again, depends on the situation.
6. NO, just no.
7. Maybe, again it depends on how often this happens.
8. Depends on the guild. Many guilds I've been in allowed multiple communications on voice chat, especially during trash pulls. Generally you keep quiet during boss pulls unless you have something important related to the kill to say.
9. Again, no unless it's someone who does it on a regular basis.
The guild size is irrelevant as long as you are consistently filling raids. I've been in guilds that only have 5-10 members over the max raid size, and I've been in guilds that have well over 100 members and split into multiple raid groups.
this pretty much sums it up. Guild's I have been in that have people who work and aren't devoted to only WoW. People who UNDERSTAND the Heiarchy is there for a reason, and kick people when they cause issue. work the best imo
Just a little too perfect, like every trite urban myth about guilds you've ever heard of packed into one post.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.