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Beta impressions from a hater
Zylaxx
Member Posts: 2,574
Ill start off and say I have grown to despise, loathe and detest themepark MMO's for a myriad of reasons so my review of ToR is based solely off this premise. One other thing I'll add is that under this same premise, if you are not like me and actually have no complaints with themeparks then ToR is a wonderful game. Take that statement for all its worth.
I played 2 classes up through their starter planet, a Sith Inquisitor and a Smuggler. I also only played the latest Beta Weekend.
Story- At first I really loved it but after about 4 hours or thereabouts I found myself hitting spacebar to cut through all the dialogue. I am of the opinion that you can tell a story so much better through immersive setting and innovative gameplay instead of watching cutscenes.
Combat- Felt very decent but was static, nothing that isnt better or worse then what can be had playing WoW or Rift.
Classes- I liked the 2 classes I played, however I did think the cover for the Smuggler felt weird and took away from the actual flow of the gameplay. The Inqusitor felt pretty fun and he seemed to have alot of nifty moves but the 10m range on his force abilities felt extremely short. It does get negated if you pick up the Sorcerer AC but from understanding if you want to play the Assasin AC your stuck with the low range.
UI- minimalist but unable to move around, soemthing Rift got right but ToR fails in.
Exploration- I am of the opinion that exploration should not be an afterthought and just because ToR puts easter eggs, or Datacrons hidden off the beaten path does not a exploarative world make. To truely sense exploration there needs to be no "bread crumbing" or "on rails" hand holding from quest hub to quest hub as it truely takes away the immersiveness and exploration from the world. Again this is a Sandbox vs themepark argument but I feel it needs to be said.
Character creation- Actually this is probably worse then WoW, as there are so few races in the game and they are all humans. I feel this is the biggest gripe anyone who loves themepark crowd can agree with. In a world with as diverse fauna and worlds as Star Wars the ability to only play a human with different shades of skin color is an abysmal calamity. I mean Wookies, Jawas, Sandpeople, Gungen, Kitonak, Rodian, Trandoshan, and many others did not make the cut which IMO is lazy and sad.
Companions- I normally dislike Pet classes, and for the most part companions play just like that, IMO they should reduce the relaince on companions.
Questing- Hated it, its al lfed-ex quests masquaraded under the guise of a story, if you've played Rift or WoW then you get a sense of the monotony of themepark questing.
PvP- Loved Hutball but the one thing I know will crop up in this game is the class balance and the sense of whoever has more healers will more then likely win, plus I am certain there will be the same Pug vs Premade problem that everyone hates about instanced battlegrounds.
Crafting- more of the same but hidden by the companion system. Nothing Irks me more about themepark crafting then cut & paste craft 100's of worthless items to level your skill.
All in all I probably wont be picking it up, as I suspected this game is basically WoW in space, but thats not a bad thing for the themepark loving crowd because I at least feel SWToR has more production quality then Rift and plays jsut as flawlessly and good as WoW. However it just is not my cup of tea, and thanks to Skyrim and the soon to be released Reckoning (feb 2012) I shoulkd in theory have enough game to keep me occupied till GW2's release. Again these are my opinons and no one elses because the game does look to be great for the folks who still enjoy that gameplay style but for people like me who are looking to a more "old school" MMO feel then it is best to look elsewhere.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Comments
I agree with pretty much everything you say in your post. Waiting for GW 2.
I think i'll pass on GW2 since it won't be as immersive or as fun as SW:TOR. For me at least. Thats the point right? For me.
(-_-)
Good point alan . gw 2 not my style game either i love themepark mmos. i cant stand sandbox mmos. They are the worst thing ive ever played.
Ill admit skyrim is ok to me im not blown away. I like assasins creed, and the bioware rpgs alot better. Thats just my style of game.
I loved tor. But then again i didnt skip dialogue. Really if u are gonna just skip dialogue in a bioware game its time to leave.
the story in this game is amazing. some are better ill admit smuggler and inquistor for one are both top notch. jedi knight isnt as fun as smuggler on starter world but wasnt bad either.
The story is the best thing about this game. Combat was fun and i enjoyed it but it was nothing new. Not that i want new in my combat. I like the way tor does there combat ill admit it but its not any diffrent then lotro, aoc or wow. Aoc has that weird thing with 1-3 beign an arrow key.
The lack of auto attack worked for me. The quests work because the story and choices i made made them seem so much more important and i didnt feel like i was ever grinding.
Now keep in mind i love themepark games and bioware games. So i was gonna like tor.
If u dont like themepark games or bioware games u might not like this although ive seen some say they did anyways.
nda was lifted today by bioware where have u been.
Just kiding That's my new favorite line though I'm gonna say that to everyone.
I wouldn't say you are a "hater" though. You have a well reasoned review of why you don't like it and make some valid points, unlike the trolls. You also don't seem to be spreading misinformation.
It all comes down to preference and this just ain't your bag.
Thanks for sharing though.
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i just deleted my comment. sorry bou that
Exactly, if you don't like story from a BIOWARE standpoint, and if you don't like massive themepark games than this is not for you.
I personally do not like GW2 because I like the Trinity, I like being a tank, healer, or dps. I will not buy GW2 because I will be too much into SW:TOR, although I did play GW1 for a loong time, that was of course before I knew about WoW. I went from UO, to EQ, to SWG..then to GW1, then to WoW. I have to say SWG and WOW were the most fun.
Now I get the best of both worlds, Star wars + Theme park + large world and story.
I love tanking and healing.
I don't care about swimming or dodging.
I don't care about dynamic events, because they are in every new game, even SW:TOR and I have seen them happen.
SW:TOR is for me, it is what I like and I even played it for a long time.
For some reason, with any game I play I do not critque it as much as everyone else does..people go into insane detail on things that are so small and irrevelant. Just like couples fighting, over nonsense.
I play because It will be fun for me, the end. I can get over some of the small things that I wish were different. It is just what that person wanted, so I have to find a way to enjoy it. People who make games have opinions too, and we all have huge imaginations as well so what we see may be different than what they see. Make it your own and say ok, is that really a big deal?
Anyways , I disagree with every point the OP made because we have different opinions. That is how the world is and I appreciate his opinion.
(-_-)
Really good review by someone who obviously prefers a different type of game, but doesn't shove that fact down our throats. Very objective, and I wish more of the non-TOR fans could be that objective when giving their opinion. Well done, OP.
ill admit if u are a sandbox fan who absolutly abhores themepark games and u dont like bioware story this game isnt for u .
i can respect that. I for one love bioware story its what makes tor so much fun for me. I found myself playign 5 hrs at atime and not realizing it i got so engrossed.
The smuggler story may have been the best one i tried though although they are all good.
The choices to me make the quests u do matter and feel more heroic i guess. i didnt feel like i was grinding xp at all. In fact i didnt even look at my progress unless my gf asked me my level.
Yup pretty much the point. Different strokes different folks.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
So, basically if you dont give a damn about any type of story, enjoy running around just killing shit for no apparent reason cause hey, story lines and quest that you can actually affect the outcomes of just arent your thing, you skip those, if you're just looking for a PvP grindfest and if you're idea of "exploration" is running around sandbox zones instead of whole worlds, then yes, skip ToR and go play GW2.
Now i'm the first to go ahead and counter people, especially those that glide under false evidence or inaccuries, but i won't here, as these are his opinions and he does clearly state, numerous times that this is his opinion and he normally doesn't like this style of gameplay and that those who do will enjoy themselves a lot.
Personally I have no issues with this impression because this is his point of view and hes entirely entitled to it. Story doesn't do it for him in the way it's done and thats competely cool.
There is absolutely no reason to suddenly bring GW2 into this and try and use it to some how discredit him. That isn't fair. Yes hes a fan of GW2, but that isn't reason to brush him aside. He played the game, hes entitled to give his opinion and review of it. Just as much as i am. Last thing i want is someone to brush mine off because i'm some TOR fan.
Lets try and discuss any issues with the actual review itself or give our opinion on it, and stop with the trying to discredit people as some fanboy all the time (yes i know i'm asking too much).
As for the review itself, sad to see you didn't care for it but glad to hear you thought that it was a well done game, just not for you, which i agree with. Good job on the write up.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Always gotta be one hater out there lol. I enjoy meaningful story that entails me actually playing the game, not watching cut scenes. I can be more immersed in a story of the game if I am actually killing stuff and helping peoples problems, its the very reason why I feel that GW2's sense of story set in a semi-dynamic world has me hooked. The story of GW2 actually has you playing the game instead of sitting through 2-3 minutes of cutscenes waiting to go collect 10 bantha hides.
I also am more enamored with original and exploratative questing as was evidenced in Asherons Call and the questlines being detailed and offering challenges. I ahte artifical constraints on what I do and equally despise a game telling me the only way to do something is if you follow their path of "least resistance".
I do enjoy running around killing shit for no reason, because I enjoy the hell out of combat, its called playing the game. As stated if I didnt enjoy killing shit in a game why wouldnt I just watch Lord of the Rings or read a R.A. Salvatore D&D novel for the 70th time because I get a whole shit load more story enjoyment out of watching or reading the medium story was designed for. But hey thats jsut my opinion.
And thank you for denegrating my opinion as I do fully entend to skip ToR and play a GW2 as it offers more game for my tastes. I played WoW for 6 years no reason for me to try and parlay that experence over to a new world. Again thats my opinon and I'll keep it.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Zylaxx, I'm not going to slam your review since as you say you prefer sandbox games. I did want to take you to task for saying the Bioware devs were lazy in the number of races available. I asked about races at a PAX panel and was told that Bioware chose certain races because of the fully voice-acted dialogue. Because PCs have to be able to interact with other NPCs, it wouldn't make sense to have races like Jawas or Wookies that cannot mimic human speech. So it was really a sound design decision rather than "laziness." Also, how many races do most other games have? WOW started with the same number of total races, LOTRO only has four (not counting monster play), AOC only has humans, and Guild Wars 2 will only have five.
Otherwise, good review. I'm strange in that I like sandbox single player games but more organized multiplayer games. I'm therefore going to probably find TOR the perfect supplement to Skyrim.
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Makes sense when you put it like that, still doesnt change the fact I would of loved to of played a Wookie
I also agree my favorite MMO of all time Asherons Call started with only 3 human races, and they were acttually humans not humanoid. AC had Anglo Saxons (Alluvian), Asian (Sho) and Middle Eastern (Ghar'undiam) humans. So good point. :P
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I for one am not brushing off anyones ideas, I am just stating my own. Since he wanted to compare ToR to GW2, even though it wasnt as direct as other do on this site, I felt I could do the same. I played GW1 and in my opinion, it was a joke of a mmo. All it was ever meant to be was a PvP grindfest. I've researched enough of what they want to do with GW2 to see that it too will most likely end up being a PvP fest with most likely just enough other stuff put in so people can pretend otherwise.
If he's allowed his thoughts then so am I. ToR isnt his cup of tea? Thats cool, every gamer has the right to pick and choose what they play. Me? I couldnt stand GW1. It was one of the worst games I ever bought and I do not see GW2 being any better. I like more than just PvP being the center of my mmos ty and GW2 seems to be heading right down that path.
I liked your thoughts on this. Some of it is spot on and well presented. I have enjoyed the game so far and it is not trying to be anything more than it is. Its not a sand box and it is theme parks and I suspect it will keep my attention for more time then rift did as I stopped playing that before the beta was even over. It is a shame that most people will come here and post something without even reading what you had to say
I have been a beta tester since a few months back and i am also a huge Star Wars fan, have been since i was a kid. Also, I really used to like Bioware games. So of course I almost died of excitement when SWTOR was first announced, and again when I got my beta invite.
The OP's review is pretty good, but I don't really mind themepark games. The one thing that irks me the most though is the extreme restriction in planet (zone) size. Yeah the zones, I mean planets, get larger as you progress in the game, but man was I disappointed when I realized the entire planet of Korriban is the size of my bedroom.
The storylines felt really weak to me also, I'm a huge fan of the Sith so I played both Sith classes most of my time in beta. Now being a Star Wars fan I have researched all about the Sith history and leaders and all the major events so I came into my story thinking it would follow a similar Sith like path.
I was again disappointed by how weak the Sith storylines played out, I wont go into detail because I hate spoliers.
Overall it is a good game, its a Bioware game, so it's fun. It really really imo should of been a single player console game like they are known for. It just seems so shallow for a mmorpg.
The one thing they did do really really well HUTTBALL!!!! holy crap is it fun. At first I hated it, and was pissed, mainly because I had no clue what I was doing. But once I got the rules down, WOOOOOOO.
As OP stated though, premades completely wreck pugs hardcore. There was a Republic guild of all Jedi Sage/Shadow's that would just teleport and pull each other across the map and win instantly. They would teleport through the fire pits and take no damage it was pretty maddening.
Some of the more intelligent arguments for the negative sides of this game that I have seen. The balance between positive and negative are pretty good. Even though I probably wont grab this game if I get in to the beta it would give me a better idea of why everyone is so blown away by it. Very very very disappointed to hear about there only being 1 race...that is probably the worst thing a Star Wars MMO could do seeing as how so many people want to play as something other than human. Thanks for the write up though
No there are four races per side, and in addition to humans you have some pretty iconic races like Twilek, Zabrak, Trandoshian, and Sith Pureblood. But all the races are more or less humanoids that can speak "human." There are Wookie and Jawa companions.
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Pretty much.
"Nothing special", "failed to impress", "disappointing" and "wasted opportunity" sum it up for me.
I really agree with the first point you made: that a game can be better engaging and more immersive by having good, innovative gameplay and new features as opposed to watching NPCs (and low-graphics ones at that) shuffle back and forth saying some lines that I can read 2x faster.
I really love the Original Trilogy so perhaps my dislike of the expanded universe has something to do with my lack of interest for the story.
It is also missing many things that I look for in MMOs, namely more open-world-open-game elements; a robust character creator and engaging, new combat (vs. the system that is now 15 years old).
I'd also like to add that the game is sorely missing the STAR element of Star Wars. At no point did I feel I was part of some bigger WORLD. The story certainly did a lot to convey the feel of a bigger picture but thatw as where it stopped.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
Not too sure where you got that info from but there is more than just humans as a race option. Theres 9 just so you know.
Cool story bro! To bad GW2 is nothing like GW1. I hated GW1 as well, especially considering it wasnt even an MMO. The lack or Jumping, and getting stuck on a pebble on the side of a hill really ruined the game for me. To bad GW2 will fix alot of the problems with current themepark MMO's.
Funny how GW2 offers a new twist on an old genre. Immersion, innovation, lack of a holy trinity and ZERO raiding is the reason why I look forward to GW2. The fact that it has a RvR system designed from the ground up to resemble arguably the best PvP game EVAR in DAoC is nothing more then a plus. I am dissapointed that GW2 will still keep in instanced battlegrounds guess you cant have everything your way.
You are obviusoly a very self effacing fanboy of SWToR who cant stand the thought someone may disagree with you, but as I so elequently pointed out SWToR is a good game for people who like WoW clones. Whereas your opinion is basically I am a big nincompoor babby doddy head becasue I dont like your game of choice. I smell the stink of fanboy'isn in your posts a mile away.
next time you come at me with a cool story might want to do some research instead of dissing something you obviously have no knowledge about.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.