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ST:ToR and pvp/cc
Bigjit
Member Posts: 59
While I brought this up on the boards, I'd like some discussion and opinions (as well as a heads up) about an issue in pvp. At least from "my" perspective it's an issue as there seems to be a ton of it. Now, I will admit a few things from the start but keep in mind this is an impression from someone who got to play a limited amount of time (due to work). I got to level 10 and went to pvp as soon as I could get in.
A) First off they have a bolster system. It works pretty well and you can kill people higher than you. The issue is (at least as far as I'm aware) there is only 2 bracket systems. 10 to 49 and 50. So as a level 10 I was facing off against people who had more skills and a ton more talents than I did. Yes, you can hit just as hard as a 50 but your mere lack of abilities and talents will limit what you can do to others (imo).
CC abilities seem to overwhelmingly stacked on certain classes. My melee sith warrior (spec'ed with a sole point in a dps tree) had 1 ability to stun others around me for a short duration. Of course I was level 10 so I have no idea if I get others but again, this is a snapshot, one that others will probably experience "day one" to one degree or another. You do get 1 CC break but it's on a long cooldown (2 minutes) and dosen't offer any sort of immunity after use. I normally would find myself stunned, snared and then knockbacked. I would use the CC break and normally I would find myself stunned (at the minimium) again. I find it silly to so many classes other than straight melee to have a plethora of CC while I had a limited amount or no counters to them. I find it silly for other classes to have so much CC on a shorter cooldown than I had a counter on a long cooldown.
People on the boards (geneally) don't seem to find this an issue. I'm not a big fan of a lot of CC myself but it seemed a bit much. At least from a melee perspective it was certainly a daunting task of even being able to make it to a target. It was even harder to stay on one.
C) Resolve is an ability they give you (everyone) which builds during CC use on you, eventually making you immune. I can't say for certain if it is working or not but I didn't notice it having any effect. I was normally dead before it made any difference from my perspective. I did read on the boards it was working. I also read on the boards it wasn't working correctly. I have no real idea either way.
D) Ranged characters seemed (my perspective) to have a pretty decent edge against melee. I mean, they can start shooting as soon as they see me. I have to jump or run towards them. The cc would start and I would always be knocked back so I would have to run/jump back. All the while, I'm taking damage.
A few points to bring up. I had fun pvping. I had no real idea where to go or what to do. I was on the map where you have to stop them from blowing up the doors (or you have to blow up the doors as the map switches you). My team was horrible imo and we were likely facing off against people who A) Weren't/more organaized Knew the map/objectives and their locations C) Were generally a higher level. I recieved no healing I was aware of.
TL:DR I had fun pvping but I think there is a bit too much CC and not enough ways to counter at least some of it. Talents after level 10 may reduce this somewhat, I can't really say. Again, this is just a snapshot of my first couple of pvping sessions. I will buy ToR as I think its going to be a pretty good game but if your not a big fan of CC you may want to be cautious if pvp is your only real reason for getting ToR.
Comments
If you're interested in PvP, then you're looking for it in the wrong game.
PvP will allways be only an afterthought in SWTOR, so deal with it and stop complaining.
Great information you have there. No really, you totally contributed to this thread. You should probably get into poltics....or something.
You have all the information allready, so what aditional information should I give you there?
PvP will be just the way it is and Bioware/EA won't listen to make it anything else.
Yalexy is right. This game is mainly PvE so the skills are based on that. They shouldn't gimp the PvE experience just for the sake of PvP.
I'm glad you mentioned this subject, OP. I was thinking the same thing but nobody in the official forums seems to be discussing it. As the months roll by after release, I'm sure CC will get a lot of complaints, it always seems to do so whether in PvE centric games or PvP centric ones.
I did read that some class or another has anti-CC stuff, so maybe pick that if you're worried. I may. Sorry, cannot recall which.
Hey, it's their game, they can make it however they see fit. They could make a stun here or there unusable against players though, which would even it out a bit more. They will fix this at some point, I'd bet a dollar on it. Know why? Because when there are 10 to 1 ranged in battlegrounds your pvp game WILL suffer. My bet is most melee won't be in BG's pre 50 and even at 50 the ratio will be drastic.
Oh, and Yalexy might be right in the general theme of their post. It dosen't mean the way they put it was helpful in any way or it contributed anything on either side of the argument.
Maybe later down the road, they can have pve and pvp versions of specific skills like in Guild Wars? I know how you feel though Bigjit. It was definitely frustrating at times.
I think the bracket issue might change after release, since I believe they did it this way for beta testing. This might change when game is released with healthy population servers and they might add proper brackets. just a thought.
About the CC I think is hard to judge when you are still lvl 10 and haven't aquired half your skills yet.
For instance I think the bolster system is great and at least gives you the opprtunity of stand a chance againist a level 50.
At least you do acknowledge you only got to level 10 and this is your perspective from its limited exp but let us be completely honest if you’re looking for a PVP game and you buy this you are setting yourself up to be unhappy. If enough people do and complain that it is not a good PvP game we may get them retuning everything to improve that but I bet they break the PvE game in making changes to try and make some people happy. So I hope as some have suggested if they do try to make fixes they only apply to PvP and not the whole game. The real issue is that it is hard to have a good game that can really do both games need to focus on one or the other.
I agree, at least to a point. I didn't get to test a flashpoint so I don't know who certain abilities work in there. What I don't understand, at least in the point of PVP why they can't do a better job balancing. I mean, if in pve who cares how certain abilities work. In pvp if that stun lasts 4 seconds, cut it a bit, or give it diminishing returns. I think the resolve feature is supposed to be a type of diminishing return but honestly if I'm hit 3 or more times with CC and taking damage it should make me immune to CC. I'm most likely going to die anyway but at least let me have the satisfaction someone got hit.
Most of the community over there is used to the CC and I'll admit I wasn't. They tend to say "L2P" or dismiss my comments out of hand. Or, I'd get the "you were obviously surrounded you were going to die anyway". Or "CC means something in this game" and some reference about skill.
Well, if I was going to die anyway what difference does it make if I was CC'ed or not? If CC means something in this game and requires skill (I'm guessing coordinated groups) why have them on a relatively short cooldown in compared to the CC break ability? If (as I was told) the CC break ability requires "skill and timing" to use (due to it being on a long timer) then why don't the CC abiltiies in PVP have the same requirement. I mean if my stun has a 2 minute resuse, I'd probably use it a whole lot less and save it for those situations where I'm going to really need it vs using it on some guy who's at an obvious disadvantage when it's already 2v1 or more or is already CC'ed in some fashion.
I think dev's CAN balance PVP and PVE, they just choose not to for some odd/strange reason. Or, perhaps they WANT it this way. If that's the case, I'll probably roll a class that will be able to do the same thing, if only to level the ability field, at least for myself.
Thanks everyone so far for reading and keeping the discussion civil.
I have to agree it is nice that it has stayed civil. It is not hard to be civil but it is easier for people to just rage and say anyone who does not see the world the way they do as wrong so far we have not had that.
The reason for CC skills not to share the same long timers is they are instrumental in the PvE game the same for why the cool down on the brakes of CC are so long, to shorten the colldown would change boss and mini boss fights again in the PvE game. It is not uncommon at all in the PvE game to be outnumbered by three or more opponents every time you engage.
So far in my experience the best way to balance this game one would have to essentially just create a different game as the way skills and play would be done would be completely different then the PvE game. There is an adage we used in the army that to me fits here. Train the way you will fight and fight the way you trained. The PvP and PvE would be so different that experiences in one would be all but worthless in the other rather than as a way of building skills and knowledge of how the skills work to the other game. Maybe I am missing something I have been known to some times but that’s how I see it ATM.