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GPU & Case upgrade.. Some opinions on comp to run SWTOR
Hellfyre420
Member Posts: 861
in Hardware
Alright, i'am planning on upgradeing my pos computer come black friday.. I'am not that great with computers but i do know the basics.. Any help from people more knowledgeable on the subject would be much apreciated
But for right now here are my specs -HP
m9500y
Windows Vista (i know i need to upgrade to W7 lol)
AMD Phenom 9750 Quad-Core Proccessor 2.40 GHz
8.00 GB RAM
64-Bit OS
Nvidia GeForce 9500 GS
I'am told that my computer can indeed run SWTOR.. But it'd have to be on low/min settings and would run terribley.. I'am opt to beleive this because that is how i've had to run almost every MMO i've played from WoW, AION, EvE, and Rift.. And i'am sick of running on 20-30fps while on low/min settings lol..
So I was planning on purchaseing a new graphics card.. Nothing too expensive just something that'd possibley let me run even medium settings on SWTOR.. Here is my plan so far, let me know what you guys think and preferabley people who have beta tested the game what they might think of useing this gpu/set up.
The graphics card i was looking at is a GTX460.. But since it's a inch or more bigger then my current graphics card i'am going to have to purchase a tower case too.. Was looking at some mid-tower cooler masters on new egg to pick up.. And since my current computer is only 350W's i'd have to purchase a PSU.. I was looking at a 500W PSU on new egg that i hope will go for pretty cheap on black friday.. Would that added PSU be enough for me to run the GTX460 and possibley a back lit keyboard? Or do i need a beefier PSU?
Also how much of a difference would it make if i did this? I know my current set up sucks and i've got a little extra cash so i was hopeing by spending it on black friday i can save my self the hassle of purchaseing a brand new computer and still be able to run SWTOR atleast decently.
Thanks guys! Any helps/suggestions on the build would be very much apreciated.. And anyone who knows of a cheap case/gpu/psu that are going on sale black friday and compatiable with my computer then please feel free to list them.. Im not set in stone on the GTX460, it just looked like the most bang for the buck.
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
Comments
Did a little digging and this is what i've come up with..
Let me know if you guys think anything wouldn't work or isn't compatiable since i'am not very knowlegdeable with all that lol.. Was thinking of just replaceing my PSU/Case/GPU come this friday.. Hopefully with that taken care of i'll be able to run SWTOR decently..
Cooler MASTER eXtreme Power Plus RS500-PCARD3-US 500W ATX12V v2.3 Power Supply
COOLER MASTER HAF 912 RC-912-KKN1 Black SECC/ ABS Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
They have these as a combo on newegg for $89.99 + rebate..
As for graphics card this is what i was looking at..
EVGA 01G-P3-1372-TR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) Superclocked 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
So would this work out with my rig? Only thing im worried about is weather ill need more then a 500W PSU or not.. For the graphic card it says it needs a minimum of 450w's so im thinking i might need to go higher then 500w's.. And weather all of this is compatiable with my current rig lol..
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
I had no issues running SW:ToR on my Intel Core2 Duo E6750 with an ATI HD5770 video card and 4gb of ram under Windows XP. the game looked great and ran great. The 9750 about doubles what my processor can do, plus it's quad core, which will help some with the whole threading thing. Seems like it would run fine.
If Wow is running terribly on the lowest settings then my only guess at your issue is that you're using an AMD processor. It's not that they're bad, but they seem to have some wonky issues that aren't explained by the speed of the processor.
I'm putting together an Intel i5-2500 setup that's going to cost me around $450. Something like this:
Motherboard - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130596
CPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115072
RAM - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231314
You'd want to add a power supply to that, I'd suggest something in the 600 watts range. I also picked up a hard drive, but hard drive prices have gone through the roof...it's a bad time to get them.
If you could be more specific in what your price range is, there are people on these boards that can put together packages that would fit your budget, and that would also perform very well for most anything you'd want to do.
** edit **
The power supply and the video card you've selected look ok to me.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Yeah i've got a AMD processor.. WoW ran alright but at times it also ran terrible.. Which seems to be the problem i have with most games.. Besides AION which surprisingly ran very good even during 100+ person fort raids.. Rift ran decent but after a few updates i had to turn it on min settings just to get 20-30fps..
Well right now i have $150 to spend in time for black friday.. So what i was going to do is purchase that case + power supply i listed in the above post during black friday then my next paycheck i'd purchase the graphics card.. I'd say my max i can spend before SWTOR releases would be around $300-350.. Which i know is to low of a price to build a new comp from the ground up, but im hopeing it'll be enough to atleast upgrade my video card on this computer so i can hopefully enjoy SWTOR..
And about you're edit do you think that PSU would supply that graphics card? Graphics card says it needs around 450W's and that PSU is 500.. Should i go to 600ish to be on the safe side? Also with that graphics card do you think i'd be able to run SWTOR on med or high settings possibley?
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
The power supply size depends on everything in your case. If you have a ridiculous number of hard drives or dual processors or something, then the video card can become irrelevant. Usually though, with a single video card, single hard drive and processor, you'll be fine with a 500w power supply.
Me, I would try to get the 600w power supply just in case. It may be unnecessary and could be a waste of the extra money. It's one of the few things where if you buy a good brand, the overkill doesn't hurt too much. A product with a lot of reviews, and still having above a 4 eggs on NewEgg is usually pretty safe.
** edit **
Looks like most of the mid-tower cases that come with power supplies come with 500w power supplies. Cooler Master seems like a decent brand. Antec may be better...but that might be debatable.
I spend so long between upgrades that I have to read the reviews to get a good idea of what's current. These two items stood out a bit to me:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156062 has a lot of cases sold (because it's cheap) and still maintains a 4 eggs rating. Looks kind of cool too.
This one only has 700 items sold: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156098 but looks a little cooler. Still a '4 eggs' rating.
I'm not recommending this for you to purchase. I'm not that confident. :-) But they are options to consider if money is an issue, they look pretty cool and they also get good reviews.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Yeah after looking at it a bit i think ima go for a 600.. The extra $20-30 just to be safe is worth it for me.. And later on i plan on getting a back lit keyboard so the extra power could come in handy.. Gonna go search for a good combo package on new egg now.
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
The case is fine. It's not what I'd pick, but it will work. On a tight budget, I'd sooner grab one of these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147153
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042
The power supply is a piece of junk. If you tried to pull 500 W from it in the real world, if you're lucky, it would just shut down. Because if it didn't do that, you'd get smoke and/or sparks, and then it would shut down and never turn back on again. And it might take other hardware with it when it dies, too.
I don't see any great deals on power supplies in the ~500 W range at the moment. This will work:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151094
If you regard rebates as "free", then this is actually a pretty good deal:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341047
It's not a good deal at all if you don't do the rebate, though.
The video card is nice enough in itself, but that price tag is too high for the performance. The GeForce GTX 460 was discontinued early this year, so anything left in stock is only there because it still hasn't sold out--often because it's priced not to sell. Regardless, you can get much better performance for cheaper:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131378
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You've probably got a Socket AM2+ motherboard, and if so, you may be able to upgrade the processor. The processor you have will work great in some games, but hold you back substantially in others, as the Phenom didn't have great IPC, and 2.4 GHz isn't a high clock speed, either. Any of these would be a hefty upgrade over what you have now, but there's still the question of what the motherboard can handle:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103871
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103995
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103894
Ok after looking at new egg i found a great deal with a 600w proccessor only $2 more.. Im trying to stick to new eggs combo deals with a PSU + case because they are generally 10-20% cheaper then buying two seperate items..
COOLER MASTER eXtreme Power RS600-PCARE3-US 600W ATX12V V2.3 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Power Supply
has 4 eggs but only 12 reviews soo.. but it comes with this case as a combo for only $92.00
NZXT M59 - 001BK Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
heres the link to the combo deal with the specs -
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.767991
I was also told for $10 i should get this 460GTX since its quieter and more effecient.. or so i was told
MSI N460GTX CYCLONE 1GD5/OC GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
heres link to it http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127510
What do you guys think about this set up? Ofcourse im going to wait until black friday to make the purchases so always time to change.. And as of right now the only game im worried about playing is Star Wars The old Republic.. If my processor and everything else will play that fine and i can just get away with getting a new gpu to play it on med settings then ill be happy.
edit: just looked at the graphics card you recomended.. is that better then the 460GTX because its right around the same price? And what do you think is better for SWTOR, nvidia or radeon?
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
No, no, no. That's the same awful power supply as before, except a different wattage version of it. That doesn't change much. The problem on the power supply is quality, not wattage. If you could get a 1000 W version of the same awful platform, it would still be a piece of junk.
If you want that case, then go ahead and get it. It should be fine. But don't get that power supply.
The reason I say to get a Radeon HD 6870 isn't just that it's cheaper than a GeForce GTX 460. It's also a lot faster. It probably consumes less power, and has an arguably better feature set, too.
The basic hierarchy in video card performance goes:
Radeon HD 6750 ~ GeForce GTS 450
Radeon HD 6770 ~ GeForce GTX 550 Ti
Radeon HD 6850 ~ GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
Radeon HD 6870 ~ GeForce GTX 560
Radeon HD 6950 ~ GeForce GTX 560 Ti
Radeon HD 6970 ~ GeForce GTX 570
Absolutely stay away from the 400 series cards. If you're set on Nvidia, then go with the 500 series and preferably the 580 or 570's or even better in regards to price / performance / heat and wattage, go with a Radeon 6870 or 5870.
You'll get much better price to performance from AMD, but you'll have fewer driver issues with Nvidia.
depends on what setting you wanna run swtor.to me you can go with a 5650 or something like that which is cheaper then many other mid range cards and get a pretty good setting.
if you plan on running max setting then thats another issue .i never play with flora or shadows in any mmo on so for me anything but mid range specs is overkill.
OP, listen to Quiz; those PSUs are absolute junk, as are any from Cooler Master.
In a perfect world, claimed wattage would mean something, but as it is companies can sell "600W" PSUs without them actually being able to deliver 600W, let alone do it at a reasonable voltage with reasonable ripple.
Grab the Seasonic PSU he recommended, get a 6870 as he's suggesting, and you'll be about as good as you're going to get.
Quizzical's advice is on the mark.
If I had to go with a budget minded combo myself, I'd go with a 560ti GPU and a Seasonic/Corsair or Antec PSU.
The Antec Earthwatts 500W PSU was actually selling for a pretty good price just a bit ago; it's too bad it still isn't.
Will a 500w psu work for that graphics card you posted quizz?
I was under the impression that the 460GTX was a very good mid-range graphics card.. I also have friends who play SWTOR's beta and they recommended the 460GTX 1gb to me (he is running two of them though.) I've never had a raedon or ati gpu so i don't really know what to expect.. I'am not a big fan of constantly messing and upgrade/downgradeing my drivers.. But if SWTOR runs fine on a raedeon graphics card then i don't mind picking it up; its not like a nvidia fan boy or anything..
As for the psu i REALLY wanna get a cosair as i've heard nothing but good things about them.. But i can't find a good PSU+case combo on newegg.. And that case that comes with the coolermaster is the case i been eyeing and I don't see it with any other combos
Still, im waiting till black friday to make my final purchases so maybe they'll have a good combo set then with a cosair psu + a good case.
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
SW:ToR doesn't seem to have issues with any GPU in particular. It ran fine on my ATI HD5770 over the weekend.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Well thats good to know.. I just had bad experiences with Rift being terribley optimized it barley even played on brothers computer which is more upgraded then mine.. And with my computer it was terrible.. Whats funny is he has a ati gpu and im running nvidia and it ran like crap on both computers, but better on the ati even though i was under the impression Rift was made with Nvidia in mind lol..
Ok.. I've ditched the cooler master.. With all you're guys adviced and based on the 12 reviews for the product it dosn't seem very reliable.. And i sort of wanted something atleast certafied.. So here's a good combo i found with a nice case also
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.767636
its
Rosewill Green Series RG630-S12 630W Continuous @40°C,80 PLUS Certified, Single 12V Rail, Active PFC "Compatible with Core i7,i5" Power Supply
with this case
Rosewill CHALLENGER Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case, comes with Three Fans-1x Front Blue LED 120mm Fan, 1x Top 140mm Fan, 1x Rear 120mm Fan, option Fans-2x Side 120mm Fan
Still eyeing out graphics card.. I wanna get the 460GTX because im used to nvidia..... But i don't wanna get ripped off if i can get something better at the same price.
But how is that PSU i linked? It's certafied and it's "green" lol.. Would that work with my rig and that case?
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
For the most part, there aren't bad video cards, but only bad prices and bad times to buy. If you could get a GeForce GTX 460 1 GB for $100, I'd say, sure, grab it, that's a great deal. But not for $178, when you can get a substantially better card for about $18 cheaper.
As for times, if you bought a GeForce 8800 GTX five years ago, it was a great card at the time. But you wouldn't want to buy one today. Sometimes people come in here and say, I bought this two years ago and it has been great, so you should buy it today. It might well have been a good purchase two years ago, but that doesn't mean it's still sensible today. A GeForce GTX 460 1 GB was a nice value when it launched last summer, and also earlier this year when some of them were clearance-priced (e.g., $140 before a $30 rebate) because the card was discontinued. But not now, partially because Radeon HD 6850 and 6870 prices have fallen since then.
-----
You buy a particular power supply, not a brand name. Corsair doesn't actually build any of its own power supplies; mostly it rebrands power supplies built by Seasonic and Channel Well. Would you expect a Seasonic power supply with a Corsair sticker on it to perform any better than an essentially identical power supply that came off of the same assembly line at Seasonic but has an XFX sticker on it instead of Corsair?
Corsair deservedly has a good reputation because they don't sell any bad power supplies. Their CX and CX V2 series power supplies are their worst, and even those are all right. Their TX V2 series is pretty nice, and their AX series is excellent, albeit expensive.
But Corsair isn't the only company that sells good power supplies but not bad ones, and even if a company does sell both good and bad power supplies (e.g., Kingwin, Sentey, Rosewill), that's not a problem if you buy one of their good ones.
Check out the combo rosewill case + psu i linked above.. That psu is certified and stuff so im thinking its probably better then that cooler master.. And after looking at the 6870 reviews im pretty confident it'll be a better purchase then the 460GTX.. Now i just need help decideing what 6870 i want to get.. Preferabley something that'll stay cool and be quiet.. Not really worried about overclocked and all good stuff..
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
500 W is plenty if it's a good 500 W power supply that performs well even if you try to pull 500 W from it. It's not plenty if it's a piece of junk "500 W" power supply that will explode if you try to pull 400 W from it.
The power supply you linked there is kind of all right. It's about the sort of quality that I'd recommend to someone trying to put together a gaming computer on a $500 budget and hoping to avoid any parts that are a complete disaster. The overwhelming majority (>99%) of power supply reviews on New Egg can't meaningfully test power supplies, so all they can really tell is whether the power supply died or not, and whether it is unduly noisy. "I pulled 200 W from a 630 W power supply and it didn't explode." isn't exactly a glowing review, but it's about all they can say.
More meaningful is the "golden award" from Hardware Secrets, which does have the equipment to properly test power supplies. You should understand that Hardware Secrets gives their golden award out an awful lot, and them giving a golden award to a power supply is entirely consistent with Hard OCP (whose editorial position is far more stringent about awards) rating exactly the same power supply a "fail". In this case, they gave the award mainly because it was cheap for the wattage, at least compared to other power supplies that managed to stay within the ATX12V specficiations and not die.
That Rosewill power supply is a lot better than the Cooler Master eXtreme Power Plus that you linked to before. But it's also not nearly as good (energy efficiency, ripple suppression, component quality; probably voltage regulation, too, but Hardware Secrets didn't post data on that) as either of the power supplies that I linked earlier in this thread.
That's the sort of power supply that, if you already had it, I wouldn't be in some dire rush to replace it. But I also wouldn't really recommend buying a new one if you didn't already have it.
I like the power supplies you listed but they don't have good combo deals with cases.. And I know new eggs rebate policy is weird soemtimes only allowing one per house hold so the 2nd one with the rebate isn't something i'd go for because the rebate on the gpu is likley to be more then the rebate on that psu.. I don't mind loseing out on the $10 rebate for the combo back i listed but i don't wanna miss out a $25 rebate on just a psu.. The 1st psu is also good but again it dosn't have a combo package, maybe that'll change come friday i'll keep checking..
Then again now that i look at it i could purchase
SeaSonic S12II 520 Bronze 520W ATX12V V2.3 / EPS 12V V2.91 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply
+
Rosewill CHALLENGER Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case, comes with Three Fans-1x Front Blue LED 120mm Fan, 1x Top 140mm Fan, 1x Rear 120mm Fan, option Fans-2x Side 120mm Fan
seperatley and it'd only be $10-15 more then that combo back (maybe even less if the 1 rebate per house hold thing is true.)
That case is cool enough and it has 3 fans already inside which i like.. And the psu looks like it has a lot of good features (still not as nice as the 2nd one you listed with the rebate.) You think this would be fine? Would that psu be good enough to power a 6870?
Also which 6870 do you suggest i pick up on? The one that you first linked or is it worth purchasing one of the more modified 6870's for $10-20 more.. I don't need anything over or super clocked or whatever, but i wouldn't mind paying $10-20 for 6870 thats modified to be more quieter or whatever.
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
The rebate limitations aren't to say that you can only get one rebate from New Egg in your lifetime. Rather, it's one rebate per SKU per household. If a video card has a $20 rebate and you buy ten of that card, then you can only get the rebate for one of them. But if you buy a video card and a power supply and a case and a motherboard and they all have rebates, then you can get one rebate for each product.
The idea of rebates is that companies want you to think a product is cheaper because of the rebate and buy it for that reason, but then not bother to do the rebate so that the company gets the full purchase price as if there were no rebate. They want to stop professional system builders from buying huge quantities when there is a big rebate available, as they would be highly motivated to do the rebates, as that may well be their profit margin. That's why the rebate restrictions are in place. They aren't meant to be a meaningful limitation on someone like you who only has one computer to upgrade.
I'm not saying that you should get and do rebates. If you think they're enough of a hassle that you won't bother, then ignore the rebates. But different people have different views of rebates.
-----
I'd probably just get the PowerColor because it is the cheapest. A Radeon HD 6870 has a 151 W TDP, so it isn't that hard to cool properly. That's actually less heat than a GeForce GTX 460 1 GB, in spite of better performance. The alternatives that only cost a little more aren't necessarily any better. The premium cooler options add $40 or more to the price tag.
Good to know on the rebates.. I've been suckered out of them before so i'm glad to know that they'll work this time (although i have to pay the $2 fee if i want to see them in this life-time its ok with me.) I'll make sure to mail them out, im not one of those people to forget about a rebate.. It'll prolly be mailed before i even start working on this computer lol
Ok so this is what im looking at Quizzikal..
this power supply -
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151094
this case -
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147153
this graphics card -
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131378
Even though that PSU dosn't come with a good combo package it's only gonna cost me $10 more to get it + that case, both of which i think are better then that cooler master + case combo i linked earlier.. And by getting that 6870 i'll save $20 that i was gonna spend on the 460GTX anyways.
With all those in store do you think i'd be able to run SWTOR on high settings with ok fps? Also since im not great with case demensions do you think that case will fit the 6870HD? It's 9.5 inches which seems rather large to me lol.. Then again my graphics card + current case is very tiny so maybe that's why it seems so big.
Thanks again for helping me out with this.. Upgradeing this computer and playing SWTOR with decent FPS would be a great christmas present for myself :P
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
New egg has been getting a little pricey lately,check:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/indexus.asp?SRCCODE=WEBGOOTD&cm_mmc_o=mH4CjC7BBTkwCjCECjCE
For better deals.
Yeah i was compareing tiger direct earlier and new egg was the cheaper of the two it seemed like.. But that was with the other parts i was planning on getting.. I've purchased through new egg before and the free 2 day shipping is nice.. But ill doube check tiger direct with the parts im planning on getting now.
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta