Originally posted by SuperXero89 Seems like you could easily rip my argument apart, but you still fail to do so.
On the assumptions comment though, that's all any of us can do. I assume one way. I have reasons to assume one way. You assume one way. You have reasons to assume one way. What is with you people that think you know by 100% exactly what this game is going to be like when we honestly know so little about "how" any of these really cool sounding features are actually going to work? It's easy to ignore criticism by turning up your nose and claiming I don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe I don't, but you're not going a very good job proving it.
You aren't making arguments...you're just stating mistaken impressions and assumptions based on a lack of information. Me trying to explain things to you isn't me "arguing"...it's me trying to show you why what you're saying makes no sense when placed in the context of facts about the game.
We aren't both making assumptions. You're making assumptions, because you clearly (and admittedly) haven't researched the readily available info about the game. I'm stating facts about elements which are currently in the game and have been tested/played by thousands of people. It's not like the game is vaporware and we're all just speculating on what it MIGHT be like... the game is about to enter beta testing and the features they have discussed are in the game and working, and many people have played it.
I certainly can ignore your criticism by claiming you don't know what you're talking about. You know why? Because you don't know what you're talking about. You've admitted several times that you are unwilling to spend a little time to gain some knowledge on the subject. You've completely ignored the facts I've attempted to provide to correct your mistaken assumptions. Therefore your "criticism" (read: uninformed statements) can and should be ignored.
Originally posted by stealthbr I believe his doubts could be summarized to the following: 1.) Why would a higher level player want to experience lower level content? What are the meaningful purposes of going back?You play content in the game because it's fun and because it rewards you with money, karma, loot, etc. Why does anyone play any content in an MMORPG? It's new, it's exploration, you get to experience what's around the corner and play with your friends? Any and all of the above. The idea is that you don't have to farm the same content over and over at max level to build up the loot you need to buy things, or to gather the resources you need, or to get the armor looks you want. You can actually do NEW content you haven't done before to gain all those things. 2.) Why do you assume that everyone likes the idea of being scaled down to keep content challenging?Nobody is assuming that EVERYONE will like the idea of being scaled down. There have been multiple points made as to why it makes sense to automatically scale players, and the many benefits that automatically scaling players provides. Will some poeple not like GW2? Of course...no game is going to make EVERY PLAYER happy. 3.) Why do you assume people will socialize more? The average MMO player usually cares mostly about completing content. Sure, people will probably make use of these cross-profession combos and the open grouping, but why would that magically make people start socializing as opposed to just using each other to get by content more efficiently? It's not an assumption. It's a conclusion based on an objective examination of the facts of GW2's mechanics and systems. It's the philosophy behind the design...that every element of the game is baked with community building in mind. It's a primary focus of ArenaNet. I also base my conclusion on having played MMORPGs in the past which effectively ecouraged social play...and those games WERE MUCH MORE SOCIAL and had much longer-lasting, mature, and worthwhile game and server communities. GW2 is re-imagining those same social elements with new innovative mechanics...but the results will be the same. The game allows players to solo, but makes things more fun, and removes pretty much all the barriers, to playing together with other people. Not just playing in proximity, but actually positively interacting. This is a fairly dramatic departure from the WoW-formula games we've been eating a steady diet of for six years...where solo play is the "golden path" through the leveling process and the mechanics actively put players in competition for resources and put up barriers to playing together (never being on the same quest phase, not being close enough in levels, stealing all the ground spawns, or mobs, or crafting resources... all problems which are removed in GW2's design). Along with all those things, active elements like cross-profession combos, open guild mechanics, minigames in cities, and PvP provide tons of community building and positive interaction. Level scaling puts higher and lower levels in the mix together so that organic mentoring can take place (teaching new folks the ropes and making new friends)...I could go on and on. 4.) Why do you believe Guild Wars 2 will have great amounts of replayability? This ties in with doubt #1. This has been explained over and over and over and over in multiple threads on these boards. Several of them are probably still on the first page of threads. it's idiotic to keep explaning the same things over and over to the exact same people who always have the same "concerns" but never read the responses.
You play content in the game because it's fun and because it rewards you with money, karma, loot, etc. Why does anyone play any content in an MMORPG? It's new, it's exploration, you get to experience what's around the corner and play with your friends? Any and all of the above. The idea is that you don't have to farm the same content over and over at max level to build up the loot you need to buy things, or to gather the resources you need, or to get the armor looks you want. You can actually do NEW content you haven't done before to gain all those things.
People largely play content in MMORPG's because they gain something out of it. Only a very small segment of players do things just for the sake of experiencing the content. People like doing things that result in meaningful character growth. Money and loot simply aren't compelling enough since that could be gained in many other ways. It's not much of an incentive to run lower level content as a higher level player.
Nobody is assuming that EVERYONE will like the idea of being scaled down. There have been multiple points made as to why it makes sense to automatically scale players, and the many benefits that automatically scaling players provides. Will some poeple not like GW2? Of course...no game is going to make EVERY PLAYER happy.
It makes sense because of the way Dynamic Events are designed and how they allow anyone to participate, not because it has many benefits. It's a method used by ArenaNet to contain griefing in Dynamic Events. A lot of people don't like the idea of being scaled down in power. Yet while this bandaid solution is very much needed, it doesn't stop from having serious trade-offs.
It's not an assumption. It's a conclusion based on an objective examination of the facts of GW2's mechanics and systems. It's the philosophy behind the design...that every element of the game is baked with community building in mind. It's a primary focus of ArenaNet. I also base my conclusion on having played MMORPGs in the past which effectively ecouraged social play...and those games WERE MUCH MORE SOCIAL and had much longer-lasting, mature, and worthwhile game and server communities. GW2 is re-imagining those same social elements with new innovative mechanics...but the results will be the same. The game allows players to solo, but makes things more fun, and removes pretty much all the barriers, to playing together with other people. Not just playing in proximity, but actually positively interacting. This is a fairly dramatic departure from the WoW-formula games we've been eating a steady diet of for six years...where solo play is the "golden path" through the leveling process and the mechanics actively put players in competition for resources and put up barriers to playing together (never being on the same quest phase, not being close enough in levels, stealing all the ground spawns, or mobs, or crafting resources... all problems which are removed in GW2's design). Along with all those things, active elements like cross-profession combos, open guild mechanics, minigames in cities, and PvP provide tons of community building and positive interaction. Level scaling puts higher and lower levels in the mix together so that organic mentoring can take place (teaching new folks the ropes and making new friends)...I could go on and on.
Sorry, but I am also skeptical regarding this. Playing games that actively encourage social play (WAR, Rift), I noticed that people don't care about socializing. They just use each other to more quickly get through content. People don't necessarily become friends because they are fighting against the same cause. They may use each other, but they don't necessarily care about each other.
This has been explained over and over and over and over in multiple threads on these boards. Several of them are probably still on the first page of threads. it's idiotic to keep explaning the same things over and over to the exact same people who always have the same "concerns" but never read the responses.
Yes, your argument is that replayability basically consists of running content. Yet, there needs to be more meaningful reasons to run content other than because its fun or because you gain money or because you gain superficial benefits like weapon skins or achievements. There needs to be a meaningful form of players actually feeling that they accomplished something after running this content. Things that induce permanent boosts to one's character's overall power. Goals that players can strive to achieve to make their characters better.
This has been explained over and over and over and over in multiple threads on these boards. Several of them are probably still on the first page of threads. it's idiotic to keep explaning the same things over and over to the exact same people who always have the same "concerns" but never read the responses.
Yes, your argument is that replayability basically consists of running content. Yet, there needs to be more meaningful reasons to run content other than because its fun or because you gain money or because you gain superficial benefits like weapon skins or achievements. There needs to be a meaningful form of players actually feeling that they accomplished something after running this content. Things that induce permanent boosts to one's character's overall power. Goals that players can strive to achieve to make their characters better.
By who's reasoning does every player need a way to make themselves stronger to find replayability in the game?
Especially considering that you're responding to a player who just said that they consider FUN a completely valid reason to continue playing the game.
There's also other ways to get players to make their character's better, regardless of your shallow emphasis on "overall power". The first Guild Wars has "titles" and "prestige armor". Neither of these offer stat or gameplay advantages over any other player, but both require insane amounts of time and effort to achieve. It stands to reason this would be an incredibly useful way to keep players playing Guild Wars 2.
There's also other ways to get players to make their character's better, regardless of your shallow emphasis on "overall power". The first Guild Wars has "titles" and "prestige armor". Neither of these offer stat or gameplay advantages over any other player, but both require insane amounts of time and effort to achieve. It stands to reason this would be an incredibly useful way to keep players playing Guild Wars 2.
Yes. The first Guild Wars is representative of an RPG model that all players are the same level of power at max level. Which is an RPG model of my preference. Dark Age of Camelot in its original release state was also representative of this which was one reason why DAoC Original is my favorite MMORPG of all time.
Raiding MMORPG models decide to continue on the leveling RPG aspect through gear grinds at endgame and I have never liked it that way. Yet we've all been subjected to this model for a decade of MMORPGs. And like me, some of us have even had our game be patched or expansion released that attempted to change into the raiding RPG model from the other one.
People largely play content in MMORPG's because they gain something out of it. Only a very small segment of players do things just for the sake of experiencing the content. People like doing things that result in meaningful character growth. Money and loot simply aren't compelling enough since that could be gained in many other ways. It's not much of an incentive to run lower level content as a higher level player.
... and there's many people who consider that a flaw of MMORPGs. It's a different design mechanic. The basic idea is 'You play our game past the end for cosmetic awards/titles and because it's fun', rather than adding 'and you'll get another +1. Maybe. Keep trying!'. Some people honestly dislike that type of gameplay design (raises hand), and they're banking on those people being more common than you think. (PS. THey're not SUPER common among MMORPG players because... well, that's why you run the same raid a hundred times. For incremental chances of getting slightly better gear, which will allow you to run the NEXT raid).
By the way, belatedly (I was gone all day), as pertaining to Frodo getting cool gear in Lord of the Rings... yes. He did. People stopped getting cool gear about 1/2 to 2/3rds of the way through the trilogy. There's pretty much no fantasy/science fiction series I can think of where people constantly power up until they defeat the end person... at which point they continue to power up afterwards, long after the series is actually over, mostly just doing the same repetitive actions.
... I lie. Dragonball is like that I guess. So if your argument is 'MMORPGs should cleave as closely to the Dragonball style of powerups as possible, because that is a classic series and that's the way things work to seem more realistic', then I guess I dont' really have much in the way of arguments about that other than to stare at you as if you went mad.
It makes sense because of the way Dynamic Events are designed and how they allow anyone to participate, not because it has many benefits. It's a method used by ArenaNet to contain griefing in Dynamic Events. A lot of people don't like the idea of being scaled down in power. Yet while this bandaid solution is very much needed, it doesn't stop from having serious trade-offs.
People who are scaled down are still more powerful than the area they're in, they're just not at one-shot level. Look at it as a mild nod towards realism. Even if Conan the Barbarian or Aragon the ranger or Luke Skywalker or whatever badass mythical figure you want to use fights against scrubs... if he just totally goofs off and acts without any skill, they can still die. It'd be humiliating, yes, but that's what you get when your playing skill at level 80 is as good as your playing skill at level 1. You DESERVE to die, honestly. The odds are stacked in your favor, you're just not able to afk in the middle of monsters, or one shot everything.
Sorry, but I am also skeptical regarding this. Playing games that actively encourage social play (WAR, Rift), I noticed that people don't care about socializing. They just use each other to more quickly get through content. People don't necessarily become friends because they are fighting against the same cause. They may use each other, but they don't necessarily care about each other.
In the post you quoted he EXPLAINED the extra mechanisms GW2 is using to make socializing even easier and less punishing to yourself than those other MMORPGs. It's in what you quoted. You can't point to the part of WAR or Rift that is doing all the things GW2 is doing that he just mentioned. So I'm not going to explain them to you, because apparently you didn't even read what you quoted when you said this.
Yes, your argument is that replayability basically consists of running content. Yet, there needs to be more meaningful reasons to run content other than because its fun or because you gain money or because you gain superficial benefits like weapon skins or achievements. There needs to be a meaningful form of players actually feeling that they accomplished something after running this content. Things that induce permanent boosts to one's character's overall power. Goals that players can strive to achieve to make their characters better.
This is why all of the world's most addicting video games like Civ, Starcraft, Tetris, shooting games and name-the-puzzler-of-your-choice are designed so that with each successive game, you are more powerful than your previous games. Oh wait. No. :T People are perfectly capable of playing a game past the point where they progress in power. That's who they're marketing the game towards.
Stop projecting your own personal desires for phat loots onto =everybody else=. It's obvious many people disagree.
Is it enough to keep GW2 heavily populated? Well, that's Arenanet's gamble right there. None of us will know if the gamble panned out until the game comes out. Until then, at best you can say 'many people like the method I'm saying', and I can say '... but apparently there are people who don't like that method, and we'll have to wait and see how many of us there are'. So your argument is completely pointless (Because until GW2 comes out we just don't KNOW if their gamble will pay off), and whenever you say 'This is what people need', you're merely projecting, rather than using any solid provable facts.
I believe his doubts could be summarized to the following:
1.) Why would a higher level player want to experience lower level content? What are the meaningful purposes of going back?
2.) Why do you assume that everyone likes the idea of being scaled down to keep content challenging?
3.) Why do you assume people will socialize more? The average MMO player usually cares mostly about completing content. Sure, people will probably make use of these cross-profession combos and the open grouping, but why would that magically make people start socializing as opposed to just using each other to get by content more efficiently?
4.) Why do you believe Guild Wars 2 will have great amounts of replayability? This ties in with doubt #1.
Frankly, his concerns are justifiable because many people don't want to go back to lower level zones as a higher level character, they want to move on. Many people don't want to be challenged by the same content they did when they were lower level, they want to feel powerful and feel that their character actual grew in meaningful ways throughout the leveling process. Many people don't care about vanity items, achievements, and skins and desire more concrete forms of progression, like constantly getting their stats higher. Finally, many people simply don't care about socializing with others, no matter what.
People love to talk about themselves or show-off themselves and scaling allows you to do that within a controlled environment that allows content not be piss easy for everyone else because you're around.
- The entire world of content available to each player in a way that provides challenge and reward and never becomes trivial, being able to explore and play the way you want without worrying that you're missing anything (and without worrying about following some "golden path" on rails through the game), plus the ability to play with friends regardless of their level or location any time you want, plus the opportunity to keep playing the way you enjoy at the level cap rather than getting bait-and-switched, plus the ability to work on horizontal advancement using content you haven't done, rather than redoing the same content over and over. (there's more, but I'm trying to be semi-concise).
OR
- The ability to roll through low-level areas and one-shot mobs and gain absolutely no benefit from them other than maybe crafting mats.
And a couple people in this thread are actually complaining that they will miss the latter choice? Any rational person can see that it's a fantastic, innovative, and fundamental shift in the way MMORPGs work, and long overdue. It's the exact opposite of a "band-aid" fix...it's the long-awaited cure to multiple different ailments that they genre has suffered from for more than a decade. Is it the end-all be-all? Of course not...but it's most certainly a step in the right direction for once, rather than just standing in place and making ever more shallow copies of copies of mechanics.
If you want to talk about a "band-aid", look at crafting in SW:TOR. BioWare freely admits that the crafting they built into the game is a drag...so they let your companions do it for you while your offline, and claim it as a "feature". Hey look, we stab you in the eye, but it feels great when we stop! We decided we didn't have the resources to make better crafting because we spent all our time on cut scenes and voiceovers, so we just let you bypass it. THAT'S a band-aid.
I think that no matter how well it is explained, there is no getting to some people and that's fine. The thread was about naming reasons a person is hyped. I personally have no problem answering any questions or batting understandings back and forth as long as the other party has an actual interest and is willing to discuss. I answered Stealth to the best of my knowledge while also keeping in mind that his concerns are not invalid and I can see the where I thought he was coming from.
After reading what I missed out on after my last post I am left wondering why the two that clearly aren't for the game, are still here or came in the first place. The forums can be a good place to get some questions answered or to hear from another perspective if you are willing to read what is there. The questions have been answered and the concerns have been addressed and still there is no back and forth other than baiting from the looks of it. Do yourselves a favor and either block them or add their names to your personal list of people to not respond to. I do enjoy reading the other point of view so I personally try to avoid blocking people I don't agree with, but some there is just no talking to. Anyways I thought Roman, Fozz, and meowhead have pretty much said all that can be said regarding the off topic of this discussion.
Originally posted by SuperXero89 In fact, the game was pretty much abandoned four years ago.
Thanks for the laugh, pretty much abandoned four years ago .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Flannum
Wanted to clarify something since I see this bit of misinformation quite a bit. We released Nightfall in late October of 2006, at this time we were actively developing the next GW1campaign which was called Utopia. We decided early in 2007 to stop Utopia development and start both GW2 and Guild Wars:Eye of the North development. We announced this almost as soon as we made the decision and in fact had a very small team laying the groundwork for GW2 while the vast majority of the company worked on Eye of the North. It wasn't until EotN shipped in late August 2007 that we really started GW2 development in earnest. This means we've really been working on GW2 for about 4 years and aren't actually close to 5 years let alone 6 years. I think what makes it seem like a long time is that we announced the project very early on so GW1 fans would know why we weren't doing any more campaigns. Hope that clears things up.
- Posted on 9/4/11
Great job on putting a negative spin on what happened with GW1! After all reading what the developer said it sure sounds like they abandoned GW1 because they were not making money anymore with the game and needed to create GW2. Oh my god it is awesome how people can spend things to make their perspective right even though they were not even involved with the events!
Originally posted by Meowhead
This is why all of the world's most addicting video games like Civ, Starcraft, Tetris, shooting games and name-the-puzzler-of-your-choice are designed so that with each successive game, you are more powerful than your previous games. Oh wait. No. :T People are perfectly capable of playing a game past the point where they progress in power. That's who they're marketing the game towards.
Stop projecting your own personal desires for phat loots onto =everybody else=. It's obvious many people disagree.
Is it enough to keep GW2 heavily populated? Well, that's Arenanet's gamble right there. None of us will know if the gamble panned out until the game comes out. Until then, at best you can say 'many people like the method I'm saying', and I can say '... but apparently there are people who don't like that method, and we'll have to wait and see how many of us there are'. So your argument is completely pointless (Because until GW2 comes out we just don't KNOW if their gamble will pay off), and whenever you say 'This is what people need', you're merely projecting, rather than using any solid provable facts.
Amen! I salute you Meowhead and look forward to seeing you in many future MMOs that try to break the common trends.
By who's reasoning does every player need a way to make themselves stronger to find replayability in the game?
Especially considering that you're responding to a player who just said that they consider FUN a completely valid reason to continue playing the game.
There's also other ways to get players to make their character's better, regardless of your shallow emphasis on "overall power". The first Guild Wars has "titles" and "prestige armor". Neither of these offer stat or gameplay advantages over any other player, but both require insane amounts of time and effort to achieve. It stands to reason this would be an incredibly useful way to keep players playing Guild Wars 2.
RPG's need meaningful and persistent character progression because eventually you will be repeating content, no matter what RPG you play. To keep this repetition interesting and fresh, you give incentives and goals for the players to look forward to. Sure, running a Dynamic Event the first couple of times in a low level zone as a higher level character may be fun. Yet after you have experienced that a couple of times, you will start asking yourself the reasons why you are doing that content. What do you gain out of doing that content?
Yes. The first Guild Wars is representative of an RPG model that all players are the same level of power at max level. Which is an RPG model of my preference. Dark Age of Camelot in its original release state was also representative of this which was one reason why DAoC Original is my favorite MMORPG of all time.
Raiding MMORPG models decide to continue on the leveling RPG aspect through gear grinds at endgame and I have never liked it that way. Yet we've all been subjected to this model for a decade of MMORPGs. And like me, some of us have even had our game be patched or expansion released that attempted to change into the raiding RPG model from the other one.
I'm sorry, but RPG's are not about equality. They are about playing the roles of unique characters in a universe. Unique characters are never equal. Some will be stronger than others, some will be quicker than others, etc. If you want equality in PvP, you should play an FPS like Counter Strike.
... and there's many people who consider that a flaw of MMORPGs. It's a different design mechanic. The basic idea is 'You play our game past the end for cosmetic awards/titles and because it's fun', rather than adding 'and you'll get another +1. Maybe. Keep trying!'. Some people honestly dislike that type of gameplay design (raises hand), and they're banking on those people being more common than you think. (PS. THey're not SUPER common among MMORPG players because... well, that's why you run the same raid a hundred times. For incremental chances of getting slightly better gear, which will allow you to run the NEXT raid).
You're elevating it to an extreme. Meaningful and persistent character progression within an MMORPG does not have to equate to raiding in WoW at all. Raiding in WoW is too exclusive, too dependent on itself, and too limited.
By the way, belatedly (I was gone all day), as pertaining to Frodo getting cool gear in Lord of the Rings... yes. He did. People stopped getting cool gear about 1/2 to 2/3rds of the way through the trilogy. There's pretty much no fantasy/science fiction series I can think of where people constantly power up until they defeat the end person... at which point they continue to power up afterwards, long after the series is actually over, mostly just doing the same repetitive actions.
... I lie. Dragonball is like that I guess. So if your argument is 'MMORPGs should cleave as closely to the Dragonball style of powerups as possible, because that is a classic series and that's the way things work to seem more realistic', then I guess I dont' really have much in the way of arguments about that other than to stare at you as if you went mad.
Books, movies, TV shows etc. are all things with a beginning and an end. Of course you will be limited by the amount of times you see some fantasy character progressing because these stories don't go on forever; they aren't persistent. However, an MMORPG is and that is why the comparison is irrelevant. And even though these things are limited in their story sizes, they still depict characters growing and becoming stronger.
People who are scaled down are still more powerful than the area they're in, they're just not at one-shot level. Look at it as a mild nod towards realism. Even if Conan the Barbarian or Aragon the ranger or Luke Skywalker or whatever badass mythical figure you want to use fights against scrubs... if he just totally goofs off and acts without any skill, they can still die. It'd be humiliating, yes, but that's what you get when your playing skill at level 80 is as good as your playing skill at level 1. You DESERVE to die, honestly. The odds are stacked in your favor, you're just not able to afk in the middle of monsters, or one shot everything.
It's not realistic at all. It's like saying a padawan should still be a challenge to someone like Anakin Skywalker, when in reality, Anakin could rape him in a second. One-shotting does not equate to goofing off. If Legolas shoots an arrow at a common orc, he will kill the orc in one blow.
In the post you quoted he EXPLAINED the extra mechanisms GW2 is using to make socializing even easier and less punishing to yourself than those other MMORPGs. It's in what you quoted. You can't point to the part of WAR or Rift that is doing all the things GW2 is doing that he just mentioned. So I'm not going to explain them to you, because apparently you didn't even read what you quoted when you said this.
Yes, he did explain them. Yet, he gave no concrete evidence, other than his experiences in other games that encouraged social interaction, to show that players would socialize instead of just using each other to complete content faster without even having a conversation.
This is why all of the world's most addicting video games like Civ, Starcraft, Tetris, shooting games and name-the-puzzler-of-your-choice are designed so that with each successive game, you are more powerful than your previous games. Oh wait. No. :T People are perfectly capable of playing a game past the point where they progress in power. That's who they're marketing the game towards.
Stop projecting your own personal desires for phat loots onto =everybody else=. It's obvious many people disagree.
Is it enough to keep GW2 heavily populated? Well, that's Arenanet's gamble right there. None of us will know if the gamble panned out until the game comes out. Until then, at best you can say 'many people like the method I'm saying', and I can say '... but apparently there are people who don't like that method, and we'll have to wait and see how many of us there are'. So your argument is completely pointless (Because until GW2 comes out we just don't KNOW if their gamble will pay off), and whenever you say 'This is what people need', you're merely projecting, rather than using any solid provable facts.
Why are puzzle games addicting? Because you are constantly playing a different puzzle and the puzzle difficulty is constantly growing. Why are RTS and FPS games addicting? Because either you are fighting against an extremely superb, intelligent, diverse, and challenging UI or because you are playing against somebody else. Here, we are mainly discussing replayability in PvE so playing against somebody else can't be considered. Here, we are discussing an MMORPG, so superior AI that constantly brings about new challenges isn't a possibility and therefore can't be considered. Here, we are discussing an MMORPG, so "different puzzles with growing difficulty" don't come by. Once you understand how the game's combat system and AI work, there is very little which changes to keep that experience addicting.
An MMORPG can't rely on its content alone to keep players plugged in.
RPG's need meaningful and persistent character progression because eventually you will be repeating content, no matter what RPG you play. To keep this repetition interesting and fresh, you give incentives and goals for the players to look forward to. Sure, running a Dynamic Event the first couple of times in a low level zone as a higher level character may be fun. Yet after you have experienced that a couple of times, you will start asking yourself the reasons why you are doing that content. What do you gain out of doing that content?
No, you won't ask yourself that. Because after you do that dynamic event chain, you can move on and do a different dynamic event chain...or push the same chain in a different direction, or run a dungeon which offers multiple different paths and dynamic events within it. The point is that by opening up the whole world of content, you aren't going to have to repeat anything over and over unless there's a specific reason why you WANT to do it...you're after a particular item, achievement, etc. So...you won't have to ask yourself why you're re-doing it, or what you gain, because you'll already know.
Players will have incentives and goals in GW2. The vertical progression that is present in typical MMORPGs throughout the level curve is also present in GW2. You will gain stats, gain more powerful weapons and armor, all those things. That type of progression is actually fairly meaningless, though...because the mobs get more powerful right along with your character. At level 80, it takes roughly the same amount of time to kill the wild boars as it did at level 1.
The much more meaningful progression in GW2, which is sometimes almost completely absent in the formulaic MMORPGs of the last 6 years, is horizontal progression, and progression in player skill. You will be gaining options and customization in multiple ways, through larger and larger number of choices in gear, skills, traits, etc. These things will provide opportunities for skilled players to develop emergent play, rather than just continuously adding hit points and damage and requiring nothing of the player at all.
No game lasts forever... unless the developers add more content after release. GW2 will be adding content for free, and adding expansions. The point is that in GW2, the systems and mechanics aren't set up to limit the player more and more until they have only a gear treadmill and a bit of boxed content to redo over and over. This game is instead design to open more and more options to the player as they level, so that at max level the entire game is open and you won't have to farm or grind any one thing unless you want to.
The thing I find most confusing about your supposedly deep and carefully considered concerns about GW2, is that you are a huge SW:TOR fan. How can you possibly look at a game that simply copies all its MMO mechanics from WoW with a few tweaks and call that the epitome of design and the greatest thing since sliced bread, and then at the same time show such incredulity towards a game design that actually contains some innovation and creative thinking to improve on elements of the genre and solve problems, rather than plastering over them?
I think that this really has nothing at all to do with legit concerns about GW2's design... I think you just happen to be someone who loves the WoW formula and single-player RPGs by BioWare, and nothing else is ever going to be good in your mind or make sense to you because of your preferences.
People love to talk about themselves or show-off themselves and scaling allows you to do that within a controlled environment that allows content not be piss easy for everyone else because you're around.
No, it doesn't. If a level 80 character is still challenged by a level 5 NPC, it's more pathetic and unrealistic than anything else. However, I recognize that scaling is absolutely necessary to keep others from griefing Dynamic Events, so that topic is done really. I was just pointed out some trade-offs, that's all.
I'm sorry, but RPG's are not about equality. They are about playing the roles of unique characters in a universe. Unique characters are never equal. Some will be stronger than others, some will be quicker than others, etc. If you want equality in PvP, you should play an FPS like Counter Strike.
- The entire world of content available to each player in a way that provides challenge and reward and never becomes trivial, being able to explore and play the way you want without worrying that you're missing anything (and without worrying about following some "golden path" on rails through the game), plus the ability to play with friends regardless of their level or location any time you want, plus the opportunity to keep playing the way you enjoy at the level cap rather than getting bait-and-switched, plus the ability to work on horizontal advancement using content you haven't done, rather than redoing the same content over and over. (there's more, but I'm trying to be semi-concise).
OR
- The ability to roll through low-level areas and one-shot mobs and gain absolutely no benefit from them other than maybe crafting mats.
And a couple people in this thread are actually complaining that they will miss the latter choice? Any rational person can see that it's a fantastic, innovative, and fundamental shift in the way MMORPGs work, and long overdue. It's the exact opposite of a "band-aid" fix...it's the long-awaited cure to multiple different ailments that they genre has suffered from for more than a decade. Is it the end-all be-all? Of course not...but it's most certainly a step in the right direction for once, rather than just standing in place and making ever more shallow copies of copies of mechanics.
If you want to talk about a "band-aid", look at crafting in SW:TOR. BioWare freely admits that the crafting they built into the game is a drag...so they let your companions do it for you while your offline, and claim it as a "feature". Hey look, we stab you in the eye, but it feels great when we stop! We decided we didn't have the resources to make better crafting because we spent all our time on cut scenes and voiceovers, so we just let you bypass it. THAT'S a band-aid.
I think this idea of replayability from level scaling is extremely far-fetched and exagerated. Sure, you can go back and do the zones you missed, but is there really much of a point into going back other than to see what you missed? Also, there's a finite number of zones, so there is only so much that you can see. I know that level scaling is needed because of the way Dynamic Events were made. Still that does not invalidate the fact that players like feeling powerful, they like to see the effects of many hours of developing a character.
BioWare never admitted that crafting is a drag. They said that it did not conduce to a Star Wars cinematic feel, which is perfectly reasonable to be honest. Having your own crew do the crafting for you is not only an extremely intelligent method to tackle the lore-breaking issue of "Darth Sidious making a blaster", it gives the character a sense of power over their companion. Not only that, it becomes accessible to pretty much every player since all you have to do is give out orders while doing the things you enjoy doing.
Originally posted by stealthbr I'm sorry, but RPG's are not about equality. They are about playing the roles of unique characters in a universe. Unique characters are never equal. Some will be stronger than others, some will be quicker than others, etc. If you want equality in PvP, you should play an FPS like Counter Strike.
Yeah, a really great game like SW:TOR is all about unique characters and diversity, right? Wait, how come every person of the same class is running around with the same companions all with the same names? How come every player of the same class is player the same way, using the same skills, and probably all wearing the same armor (because it has the "best" stats).
This is the problem with diversity in the WoW-formula MMO... the truth is that all the complexity and choices get reduced to one single build, one single set of gear, and one single set of tactics (strat). It is absolutely and completely equal...because that's how WoW-formula games are designed. The central goal is to ensure that every player has exactly the same experience. Follow the linear content and step up the linear ladder, and everyone ends up in exactly the same place.
GW2 is going to offer actually diversity. Players of the same class at max level won't all be wearing the same thing, or doing the same thing in combat, or even going about combat in the same way, and won't be forced into a single role at any time.
I think that no matter how well it is explained, there is no getting to some people and that's fine. The thread was about naming reasons a person is hyped. I personally have no problem answering any questions or batting understandings back and forth as long as the other party has an actual interest and is willing to discuss. I answered Stealth to the best of my knowledge while also keeping in mind that his concerns are not invalid and I can see the where I thought he was coming from.
After reading what I missed out on after my last post I am left wondering why the two that clearly aren't for the game, are still here or came in the first place. The forums can be a good place to get some questions answered or to hear from another perspective if you are willing to read what is there. The questions have been answered and the concerns have been addressed and still there is no back and forth other than baiting from the looks of it. Do yourselves a favor and either block them or add their names to your personal list of people to not respond to. I do enjoy reading the other point of view so I personally try to avoid blocking people I don't agree with, but some there is just no talking to. Anyways I thought Roman, Fozz, and meowhead have pretty much said all that can be said regarding the off topic of this discussion.
You might find this surprising, but some people like debating. It's healthy for the mind, keeps us active. Never did I even state if I'm getting Guild Wars 2 or not. The point of these discussions is to bring out different perspectives on facets of the game and see if people can come up with meaningful arguments to defend their position or to understand and agree with the views of others.
so your solution is to make every class and every race the same then? ...is it?
So actually...whatever class you choose it will all be the same?
Wow...this really makes me feel like im in a roleplaying game...
No, not all has to be the same....just the goals have to be different....then we will understand and like the diferences that have been with any roleplaying systems since the beginning...
But sure...you want actiony watered-through MMO's...knock yourself out....I'm sure the developers wont dissapoint you...
Personally if I want to play an action game...I go do that...
Originally posted by stealthbr I think this idea of replayability from level scaling is extremely far-fetched and exagerated. Sure, you can go back and do the zones you missed, but is there really much of a point into going back other than to see what you missed? Also, there's a finite number of zones, so there is only so much that you can see. I know that level scaling is needed because of the way Dynamic Events were made. Still that does not invalidate the fact that players like feeling powerful, they like to see the effects of many hours of developing a character.
Okay, let's try and break it down even further to perhaps get through to you.
Answer this question, please. Which provides MORE content, and a MORE diverse experience...having all content below your level become trivial, or having all content continue to be viable and available regardless of level?
Level scaling doesn't improve replayability. You're confused again. It improves playability. It increases the amount of new content available for the player to experience, and gets rid of the possibility of missing out on content. You can literally play every single dynamic event in the game with a single character, without worrying about hitting everything in a linear, fixed path.
The personal stories and the diversity of events and classes offer the replayability.
Originally posted by sfly2000 Umm, Fozzik.... so your solution is to make every class and every race the same then? ...is it? So actually...whatever class you choose it will all be the same? Wow...this really makes me feel like im in a roleplaying game...
No, not all has to be the same....just the goals have to be different....then we will understand and like the diferences that have been with any roleplaying systems since the beginning... But sure...you want actiony watered-through MMO's...knock yourself out....I'm sure the developers wont dissapoint you...
Personally if I want to play an action game...I go do that...
You didn't understand my post. Maybe read it again?
RPG's need meaningful and persistent character progression because eventually you will be repeating content, no matter what RPG you play. To keep this repetition interesting and fresh, you give incentives and goals for the players to look forward to. Sure, running a Dynamic Event the first couple of times in a low level zone as a higher level character may be fun. Yet after you have experienced that a couple of times, you will start asking yourself the reasons why you are doing that content. What do you gain out of doing that content?
No, you won't ask yourself that. Because after you do that dynamic event chain, you can move on and do a different dynamic event chain...or push the same chain in a different direction, or run a dungeon which offers multiple different paths and dynamic events within it. The point is that by opening up the whole world of content, you aren't going to have to repeat anything over and over unless there's a specific reason why you WANT to do it...you're after a particular item, achievement, etc. So...you won't have to ask yourself why you're re-doing it, or what you gain, because you'll already know.
What I meant to say is that MMORPG's can't depend on the amount of content alone to keep people interested. They need some incentive to keep people running that content. The fun factor eventually tones down as you learn the game's mechanics and understand how the game's limited AI operates. A puzzle game, on the other hand, keeps you hooked as it constantly provides different and unique challenges, things that regular MMORPG AI can't do.
Players will have incentives and goals in GW2. The vertical progression that is present in typical MMORPGs throughout the level curve is also present in GW2. You will gain stats, gain more powerful weapons and armor, all those things. That type of progression is actually fairly meaningless, though...because the mobs get more powerful right along with your character. At level 80, it takes roughly the same amount of time to kill the wild boars as it did at level 1.
During the leveling process, sure you will become stronger. With scaling, however, that progression won't be felt as much and will feel rather irrelevant. At cap, I have seen a couple of posts stating that people will quickly get the gear max stats (Just like Guild Wars 1) and then progress exclusively in aesthetics, gear-wise.
The much more meaningful progression in GW2, which is sometimes almost completely absent in the formulaic MMORPGs of the last 6 years, is horizontal progression, and progression in player skill. You will be gaining options and customization in multiple ways, through larger and larger number of choices in gear, skills, traits, etc. These things will provide opportunities for skilled players to develop emergent play, rather than just continuously adding hit points and damage and requiring nothing of the player at all.
Progression in player skill is simply to difficult to debate. Some people may consider WoW a game that requires little to no player skill at all when in reality a hardcore PvPer plays far more intelligently and efficiently than your average PvPer even if they have the same stats, gear, etc. Again though, I can't stress this enough. RPG's were not made with equality in mind. One player should be more powerful than the other, always, unless they decide to copy each other in every aspect of their build, level, equipment, etc.
No game lasts forever... unless the developers add more content after release. GW2 will be adding content for free, and adding expansions. The point is that in GW2, the systems and mechanics aren't set up to limit the player more and more until they have only a gear treadmill and a bit of boxed content to redo over and over. This game is instead design to open more and more options to the player as they level, so that at max level the entire game is open and you won't have to farm or grind any one thing unless you want to.
Yes, Guild Wars 2 is an MMORPG, and is therefore constantly growing. My concern is not about the amount of content, but the purpose of doing them.
The thing I find most confusing about your supposedly deep and carefully considered concerns about GW2, is that you are a huge SW:TOR fan. How can you possibly look at a game that simply copies all its MMO mechanics from WoW with a few tweaks and call that the epitome of design and the greatest thing since sliced bread, and then at the same time show such incredulity towards a game design that actually contains some innovation and creative thinking to improve on elements of the genre and solve problems, rather than plastering over them?
Oh no, TOR is far from perfect. It has MANY flaws, and I could talk about them all day, just like I do with Guild Wars 2. The thing is, since Guild Wars 2 still does not have a Beta going on, all we can do is debate instead of trying things out for ourselves. With TOR, however, I understand the flaws since I have experienced them firsthand, therefore I find no use in discussing them with other players.
I think that this really has nothing at all to do with legit concerns about GW2's design... I think you just happen to be someone who loves the WoW formula and single-player RPGs by BioWare, and nothing else is ever going to be good in your mind or make sense to you because of your preferences.
These are legit concerns because they are things that also happened in Guild Wars 1 which I feel have remain untouched.
Okay, let's try and break it down even further to perhaps get through to you.
Answer this question, please. Which provides MORE content, and a MORE diverse experience...having all content below your level become trivial, or having all content continue to be viable and available regardless of level?
My concern is not with the amount of content. It's with the reasons why someone would go back to experience the content they missed.
Level scaling doesn't improve replayability. You're confused again. It improves playability. It increases the amount of new content available for the player to experience, and gets rid of the possibility of missing out on content. You can literally play every single dynamic event in the game with a single character, without worrying about hitting everything in a linear, fixed path.
If it improves playability, it also improves replayability. The things you did as a noobie can be done as a level 80. Yet that is not my concern, as I have stated several times. My concern derives from reasons why a lvl 80 player would go back to do a noobie DE.
The personal stories and the diversity of events and classes offer the replayability.
Comments
Then this game won't be for those people, stealthbr. Is that the copout answer? Yes but is also the truthful one.
You aren't making arguments...you're just stating mistaken impressions and assumptions based on a lack of information. Me trying to explain things to you isn't me "arguing"...it's me trying to show you why what you're saying makes no sense when placed in the context of facts about the game.
We aren't both making assumptions. You're making assumptions, because you clearly (and admittedly) haven't researched the readily available info about the game. I'm stating facts about elements which are currently in the game and have been tested/played by thousands of people. It's not like the game is vaporware and we're all just speculating on what it MIGHT be like... the game is about to enter beta testing and the features they have discussed are in the game and working, and many people have played it.
I certainly can ignore your criticism by claiming you don't know what you're talking about. You know why? Because you don't know what you're talking about. You've admitted several times that you are unwilling to spend a little time to gain some knowledge on the subject. You've completely ignored the facts I've attempted to provide to correct your mistaken assumptions. Therefore your "criticism" (read: uninformed statements) can and should be ignored.
By who's reasoning does every player need a way to make themselves stronger to find replayability in the game?
Especially considering that you're responding to a player who just said that they consider FUN a completely valid reason to continue playing the game.
There's also other ways to get players to make their character's better, regardless of your shallow emphasis on "overall power". The first Guild Wars has "titles" and "prestige armor". Neither of these offer stat or gameplay advantages over any other player, but both require insane amounts of time and effort to achieve. It stands to reason this would be an incredibly useful way to keep players playing Guild Wars 2.
Yes. The first Guild Wars is representative of an RPG model that all players are the same level of power at max level. Which is an RPG model of my preference. Dark Age of Camelot in its original release state was also representative of this which was one reason why DAoC Original is my favorite MMORPG of all time.
Raiding MMORPG models decide to continue on the leveling RPG aspect through gear grinds at endgame and I have never liked it that way. Yet we've all been subjected to this model for a decade of MMORPGs. And like me, some of us have even had our game be patched or expansion released that attempted to change into the raiding RPG model from the other one.
People love to talk about themselves or show-off themselves and scaling allows you to do that within a controlled environment that allows content not be piss easy for everyone else because you're around.
This is not a game.
Let me make sure I understand this.
The trade-off we're talking about here -
- The entire world of content available to each player in a way that provides challenge and reward and never becomes trivial, being able to explore and play the way you want without worrying that you're missing anything (and without worrying about following some "golden path" on rails through the game), plus the ability to play with friends regardless of their level or location any time you want, plus the opportunity to keep playing the way you enjoy at the level cap rather than getting bait-and-switched, plus the ability to work on horizontal advancement using content you haven't done, rather than redoing the same content over and over. (there's more, but I'm trying to be semi-concise).
OR
- The ability to roll through low-level areas and one-shot mobs and gain absolutely no benefit from them other than maybe crafting mats.
And a couple people in this thread are actually complaining that they will miss the latter choice? Any rational person can see that it's a fantastic, innovative, and fundamental shift in the way MMORPGs work, and long overdue. It's the exact opposite of a "band-aid" fix...it's the long-awaited cure to multiple different ailments that they genre has suffered from for more than a decade. Is it the end-all be-all? Of course not...but it's most certainly a step in the right direction for once, rather than just standing in place and making ever more shallow copies of copies of mechanics.
If you want to talk about a "band-aid", look at crafting in SW:TOR. BioWare freely admits that the crafting they built into the game is a drag...so they let your companions do it for you while your offline, and claim it as a "feature". Hey look, we stab you in the eye, but it feels great when we stop! We decided we didn't have the resources to make better crafting because we spent all our time on cut scenes and voiceovers, so we just let you bypass it. THAT'S a band-aid.
I think that no matter how well it is explained, there is no getting to some people and that's fine. The thread was about naming reasons a person is hyped. I personally have no problem answering any questions or batting understandings back and forth as long as the other party has an actual interest and is willing to discuss. I answered Stealth to the best of my knowledge while also keeping in mind that his concerns are not invalid and I can see the where I thought he was coming from.
After reading what I missed out on after my last post I am left wondering why the two that clearly aren't for the game, are still here or came in the first place. The forums can be a good place to get some questions answered or to hear from another perspective if you are willing to read what is there. The questions have been answered and the concerns have been addressed and still there is no back and forth other than baiting from the looks of it. Do yourselves a favor and either block them or add their names to your personal list of people to not respond to. I do enjoy reading the other point of view so I personally try to avoid blocking people I don't agree with, but some there is just no talking to. Anyways I thought Roman, Fozz, and meowhead have pretty much said all that can be said regarding the off topic of this discussion.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Thanks for the laugh, pretty much abandoned four years ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Flannum
Wanted to clarify something since I see this bit of misinformation quite a bit. We released Nightfall in late October of 2006, at this time we were actively developing the next GW1campaign which was called Utopia. We decided early in 2007 to stop Utopia development and start both GW2 and Guild Wars:Eye of the North development. We announced this almost as soon as we made the decision and in fact had a very small team laying the groundwork for GW2 while the vast majority of the company worked on Eye of the North. It wasn't until EotN shipped in late August 2007 that we really started GW2 development in earnest. This means we've really been working on GW2 for about 4 years and aren't actually close to 5 years let alone 6 years. I think what makes it seem like a long time is that we announced the project very early on so GW1 fans would know why we weren't doing any more campaigns. Hope that clears things up.
- Posted on 9/4/11
Great job on putting a negative spin on what happened with GW1! After all reading what the developer said it sure sounds like they abandoned GW1 because they were not making money anymore with the game and needed to create GW2. Oh my god it is awesome how people can spend things to make their perspective right even though they were not even involved with the events!
Amen! I salute you Meowhead and look forward to seeing you in many future MMOs that try to break the common trends.
RPG's need meaningful and persistent character progression because eventually you will be repeating content, no matter what RPG you play. To keep this repetition interesting and fresh, you give incentives and goals for the players to look forward to. Sure, running a Dynamic Event the first couple of times in a low level zone as a higher level character may be fun. Yet after you have experienced that a couple of times, you will start asking yourself the reasons why you are doing that content. What do you gain out of doing that content?
I'm sorry, but RPG's are not about equality. They are about playing the roles of unique characters in a universe. Unique characters are never equal. Some will be stronger than others, some will be quicker than others, etc. If you want equality in PvP, you should play an FPS like Counter Strike.
No, you won't ask yourself that. Because after you do that dynamic event chain, you can move on and do a different dynamic event chain...or push the same chain in a different direction, or run a dungeon which offers multiple different paths and dynamic events within it. The point is that by opening up the whole world of content, you aren't going to have to repeat anything over and over unless there's a specific reason why you WANT to do it...you're after a particular item, achievement, etc. So...you won't have to ask yourself why you're re-doing it, or what you gain, because you'll already know.
Players will have incentives and goals in GW2. The vertical progression that is present in typical MMORPGs throughout the level curve is also present in GW2. You will gain stats, gain more powerful weapons and armor, all those things. That type of progression is actually fairly meaningless, though...because the mobs get more powerful right along with your character. At level 80, it takes roughly the same amount of time to kill the wild boars as it did at level 1.
The much more meaningful progression in GW2, which is sometimes almost completely absent in the formulaic MMORPGs of the last 6 years, is horizontal progression, and progression in player skill. You will be gaining options and customization in multiple ways, through larger and larger number of choices in gear, skills, traits, etc. These things will provide opportunities for skilled players to develop emergent play, rather than just continuously adding hit points and damage and requiring nothing of the player at all.
No game lasts forever... unless the developers add more content after release. GW2 will be adding content for free, and adding expansions. The point is that in GW2, the systems and mechanics aren't set up to limit the player more and more until they have only a gear treadmill and a bit of boxed content to redo over and over. This game is instead design to open more and more options to the player as they level, so that at max level the entire game is open and you won't have to farm or grind any one thing unless you want to.
The thing I find most confusing about your supposedly deep and carefully considered concerns about GW2, is that you are a huge SW:TOR fan. How can you possibly look at a game that simply copies all its MMO mechanics from WoW with a few tweaks and call that the epitome of design and the greatest thing since sliced bread, and then at the same time show such incredulity towards a game design that actually contains some innovation and creative thinking to improve on elements of the genre and solve problems, rather than plastering over them?
I think that this really has nothing at all to do with legit concerns about GW2's design... I think you just happen to be someone who loves the WoW formula and single-player RPGs by BioWare, and nothing else is ever going to be good in your mind or make sense to you because of your preferences.
No, it doesn't. If a level 80 character is still challenged by a level 5 NPC, it's more pathetic and unrealistic than anything else. However, I recognize that scaling is absolutely necessary to keep others from griefing Dynamic Events, so that topic is done really. I was just pointed out some trade-offs, that's all.
Couldn't have said it better myself...
Buy Neverwinter Nights 1 here! | Unofficial NWN1 homepage | NWN1 guild on X-Fire
I think this idea of replayability from level scaling is extremely far-fetched and exagerated. Sure, you can go back and do the zones you missed, but is there really much of a point into going back other than to see what you missed? Also, there's a finite number of zones, so there is only so much that you can see. I know that level scaling is needed because of the way Dynamic Events were made. Still that does not invalidate the fact that players like feeling powerful, they like to see the effects of many hours of developing a character.
BioWare never admitted that crafting is a drag. They said that it did not conduce to a Star Wars cinematic feel, which is perfectly reasonable to be honest. Having your own crew do the crafting for you is not only an extremely intelligent method to tackle the lore-breaking issue of "Darth Sidious making a blaster", it gives the character a sense of power over their companion. Not only that, it becomes accessible to pretty much every player since all you have to do is give out orders while doing the things you enjoy doing.
Yeah, a really great game like SW:TOR is all about unique characters and diversity, right? Wait, how come every person of the same class is running around with the same companions all with the same names? How come every player of the same class is player the same way, using the same skills, and probably all wearing the same armor (because it has the "best" stats).
This is the problem with diversity in the WoW-formula MMO... the truth is that all the complexity and choices get reduced to one single build, one single set of gear, and one single set of tactics (strat). It is absolutely and completely equal...because that's how WoW-formula games are designed. The central goal is to ensure that every player has exactly the same experience. Follow the linear content and step up the linear ladder, and everyone ends up in exactly the same place.
GW2 is going to offer actually diversity. Players of the same class at max level won't all be wearing the same thing, or doing the same thing in combat, or even going about combat in the same way, and won't be forced into a single role at any time.
You might find this surprising, but some people like debating. It's healthy for the mind, keeps us active. Never did I even state if I'm getting Guild Wars 2 or not. The point of these discussions is to bring out different perspectives on facets of the game and see if people can come up with meaningful arguments to defend their position or to understand and agree with the views of others.
Umm, Fozzik....
so your solution is to make every class and every race the same then? ...is it?
So actually...whatever class you choose it will all be the same?
Wow...this really makes me feel like im in a roleplaying game...
No, not all has to be the same....just the goals have to be different....then we will understand and like the diferences that have been with any roleplaying systems since the beginning...
But sure...you want actiony watered-through MMO's...knock yourself out....I'm sure the developers wont dissapoint you...
Personally if I want to play an action game...I go do that...
Buy Neverwinter Nights 1 here! | Unofficial NWN1 homepage | NWN1 guild on X-Fire
Okay, let's try and break it down even further to perhaps get through to you.
Answer this question, please. Which provides MORE content, and a MORE diverse experience...having all content below your level become trivial, or having all content continue to be viable and available regardless of level?
Level scaling doesn't improve replayability. You're confused again. It improves playability. It increases the amount of new content available for the player to experience, and gets rid of the possibility of missing out on content. You can literally play every single dynamic event in the game with a single character, without worrying about hitting everything in a linear, fixed path.
The personal stories and the diversity of events and classes offer the replayability.
You didn't understand my post. Maybe read it again?