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Colour match will return
Stuka1000
Member UncommonPosts: 955
Sorry if this has been posted before but here you go for all that shouted loudly for it:
Few of our systems seem to have generated as much passion as our 'Unify Color to Chest Piece' system. So, I'd like to shed a bit of light onto exactly what this system is, what happened to it and what is in store for it in the future.
Pretty much from the start of the project, one of our goals was to solve the 'mismatched color' issue that exists in many MMORPGs. This initiative has actually been driven directly by James Ohlen, our Game Director, as this is an issue close to his heart.
Now, it is useful to understand that when artists create a new piece of armor, they always create it as part of a set. A certain pair of pants, for example, is thematically meant to go with a specific chest armor, gloves, boots, bracers and helmet. If the players always put on full sets, they would look very good indeed and the colors from the different pieces would complement each other. Of course, at any given level, players have access to many such sets and wear bits and pieces from multiple sources. Now, in Star Wars: The Old Republic, we have created sets that, in many cases, are quite compatible with each other. You'll notice that, for example, Jedi Knight outfits use a lot of earthy colors that work quite well together regardless of which set they come from. Unfortunately, this is not always true the Trooper is a good example of a class that does not look its best with mismatched pieces.
To solve this we created an option called 'Unify color to chest piece', which we also called 'Color Match'. Once turned on, the option automatically matched the color of any equipped piece of armor to the color scheme of the chest piece. This option was very popular with our testers and did solve the color clash problem, but not without introducing some issues.
While we have a policy not to give details on a system in progress, I do want to talk a little about the worst design issue we encountered. As implemented, Color Match had a subtle but ultimately perverse effect: from the moment it was turned on, the player would perceive far less diversity in their loot. In some cases, to be honest, there are only so many differences we can create between two pairs of boots apart from their color scheme. Take away their color differences - thanks to the Color Match system - and you are left with a game that feels a bit less rewarding; where, sometimes, putting on your exciting new gear barely changes the appearance of the character. Depending on your personal preferences and your play style, this may or may not seem like much... but an MMO is a complex system of challenges and rewards and, as designers, we must stay vigilant in that regard.
So, anyway, the good news is that we are not only committed to solving the color clashing problem, we want to actually improve on the Color Matching system players experienced during Game Testing.
The bad news is... well, this won't be in for launch. The system we are currently working on isn't quite done yet and has many dependencies. After taking a hard look, we decided it would be preferable to keep Color Matching turned off for launch rather than try to do a potentially messy post-launch conversion. If anything, the live changes we made during testing to other systems (like the cover system or the item modification system) have shown us how confusing switching things under people's noses can be.
This wasn't exactly an easy decision we know how popular the feature is and how eager and vocal the community has been for its return. So, I humbly ask for your patience. The feature (or, to be exact, something I consider a better version of the feature) will return. The next time you find a particularly bad combination of armor pieces, take some screenshots - and hopefully in a few months (as always, no deadline is guaranteed), youll be able to tell new players "Back in my day, we had to wear those orange pants with purple boots! Uphill! Both ways! In the snow!"
As always, Im very interested in hearing from you... I have (so far) managed to read every single post on the Item Modification system and will hopefully be able to post a follow up clarifying any concerns and questions that you have.
Emmanuel
Comments
I am hoping that by "better system" they mean some sort of appearance tab or something like WoW's transmog or Aions similar feature thing.
My Guild Wars 2 Vids
I hope not. I hope it'll be a type of dyeing system, hopefully tied in with crafting.
^^^
Agreed!
Make it something you have to put in a little effort for or spend a few credits on.
Appearance Tab as well as Color Matching are too much easymode / non-rewarding / instant-gratification.
The item modding system is in that sense a much more realisic implementation of the Appearance Tab concept. Let's hope they'll do the same for dyeing.
My brand new bloggity blog.
There is no excuse for not having a dyeing system these days.... 3 or 4 colors for every piece, and then there could even be some details in other collors not effected by the dyes.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
prefer SWG system of course (best from all MMOs so far)
but i also love the DCUO system that add them as collection in an infinity storage space and we can wear them as a-tab any time we like
hope the chest color match its just a small start
One thing I thought Lotro did pretty damn well was the appearance tabs and dye system. It allowed for some pretty interesting outfits that could be displayed should you not like the graphic/art of your current gear. They also had items specifically for the appearance tabs. For RP-ers and those with fantastic fashion sense, it was some pretty cool features....although I saw some that made me kind of nauseous, and I think my eyes bled a little. But that's the joy of customization...to each their own.
This is lazy. I'm sorry, but they are giving this as an excuse to use the same texture 8 or 9 times, just with different colors that will undoubtably look terrible.
"oohhhh, generic style boots 1, but now it's purple!"
Different color schemes on the same loot != diversity in loot
In this day of age, reusing textures should be pretty rare. You can use the same base and add some minor detail to it, rather than using 8 different colors and calling them "different visuals"
we had a long discussion on this topic go on official forums before they wiped but this is just complete bullshit on biowares half. Not just that they took a OPTIONAL feature out that EVERYONE in beta wanted and instead of replacing it just say we are working on something better. To make things even worse the exuse they use is this
"As implemented, Color Match had a subtle but ultimately perverse effect: from the moment it was turned on, the player would perceive far less diversity in their loot. In some cases, to be honest, there are only so many differences we can create between two pairs of boots apart from their color scheme."
Admitting there art team is so lazy the only difference between many sets of armor is the color. I like how they feel for some reason it takes away from peoples idea of progression getting that shiny new gear yet all the new gear is, is the same exact model with a new paint scheme.
This sort of thing makes me worry for the game in the future when feedback from beta is 90%+ positive on a feature and its removed because some color artists at bioware are butthurt there coloring isn't going noticed because people are using match to chest.
so now heres what troopers get to look forward to till they "work on" something better
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3831/1323472784753.jpg
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I saw a similar effect on my own trooper.. Add that Aric Jorgen kept getting my cast-offs so by 22 we looked like members of the Insane Clown Posse.
I do kinda get where they are coming from though because leaving the match items to chest option open would create hurt feeling when they implemeted the upgraded color matching system.
The new system could just as easily become a crafter item and offer even more variety than what was originally on offer or a vendor item that provided a predicatable sink for your hard earned creds.
Either way, players would complain that they got it for free the other way.... All while complaining about a lack of diversity in their gear.
or they could just listen to there beta player base and leave in the feature everyone loved. But it's been said by them before many times they are making this game how they want testers were just there to find bugs not influence there desicions on the direction of anything in the game. So its either going to work out for thme or bite them in the ass like it has many other MMOs in the past...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
When I started reading your post I was thinking 'why is this guy so harsh?' but then I clicked the link and I TOTALLY understand where you're coming from! It's insane they didn't change that before launch. I hope they do something about it quick since you'll be looking at your 'clown' character for hours on end. Especially the coming month.
what would be cool is if they add "social" jobs that you could train and make money on...
hair/makeup/appearance modifyers
musicians
dancers
artists that make things you can decorate your ship /house with
armor painters
etc.
some little sandboxy type stuff is always a good thing and makes things a little more interesting while boosting the local economy
www.insomniacsbar.com (my little bar that i own in florida)
MMOs in the past this sort of thing was annoying but you got past it cause you weren't looking at your character close up in dialog situations. In this game this sort of thing sticks out a "LOT". Trying to make your character feel part of an epic story line and look like this in any shape or form is unnacceptable. Make them atters worse it was OPTIONAL peopel who wanted to feel like they got that flash new ugly colored armor could leave it but the majority that like ot actual look good could turn it on.
They already have so few ways to make your character look the way you want to begin with(very limited character creator) then to make it so you have to deal with mismatched sets and look like a clown is just ridiculous for a title released in almost 2012.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I also agree with this!
Here is an idea. Since multipule crafting skills use the likes of scvaenging and archaeology. It would be great if they tied a dyeing system such as collection of mats into two very underutilized skills. Bioanalysis and Diplomacy. This gathering skill and mission skill are only directly tied into one crafting skill, Biochem. Where as many of the other gathering skills are tied to more then one crafting skill, same with mission skills.
That's odd. Didn't I read somewhere that an appearance tab would be added ingame?
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I had also thought that I did read that somewhere as well. But, I cannot recall where or who said it, but I'm pretty sure you're right. It was said somewhere.
I do know that back in September, MikeB wrote an article that stated the appearance tab is not likely. However I'm like you Mav I do think I have read something since then about the possiblity of it happening is alot more likely.
word from devs from official forums is "they are working on it" no eta though could be months away... probably after most people already went through there storys and had to look like clowns throughout there class progression. Troopers has it by far the worst so many colors for them...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
thas why they remove the cross faction chat? cuz it was a bug?
no matter what they said, they change a lot of things and they still change and they will continue to
its a virgin company into MMOs and they will do many mistakes in the near future, just hope not to do the vital ones
they changed a lot of things as result from there own internal testing not cause of player feedback. Was even said by the devs themselves(i have link to interview but its in oficial forums which is gone now). Either way I agree they are new to the MMO game and to ignore your player base like they are doing with the color change thing and many other issues from beta shows this and worries me the future of this game does not look as bright as I have been hoping...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
the specific was changed from players feedback anyway
Sorry, I find this highly subjective and kinda melodramatic.
With the gazillion different opinions that testers will have, there'll always be people who feel that the devs haven't listened to their personal list that bugged them, no matter what they do. That doesn't mean that they don't listen, it only means that they don't just plainly implement and change every thing that this or that group of players comes up with, and also that they don't implement it right away (due to obvious time or resource constraints).
They already mentioned that they were working on something that should offer a better alternative, so that doesn't seem like they're not busy with the subject. If you don't like what they're busy with, well, too bad for you, but it doesn't automatically mean that 'they don't listen'.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
the color change had a unanimouse positive feedback accross beta players and forums. I really wish I could find that interview but they state beta testers are for testing features they implement not to influence there direction of the game. Either way its no differn't than the space combat so many people hate it but most will say "something" is better than nothing. Now we HAD an optional feature that was ready to go for launch and everyone loved but now instead we get NOTHING and a note from the devs we are working on something else for the future.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Oh yes there is - the exeucse of not wanting to be a cheap korean MMO...
BTW what all this talk about the apprerance tab? ToR has one, atleast like WoW did with preview it's not very good but it works...
It doesn't really matter that much, because there have also been statements where the devs clearly stated that they paid close attention to what the testers' feedback in several ways was.
It's my experience especially on these forums that (some) people tend to grab one statement they didn't like and elevate that as The Statement that completely, ultimately covered a presumed attitude of the whole of BW company and group of devs and designers, while at the same time ignoring all other statements the devs of the game also made that put things in a different perspective or might even contradict the claim those people are making.
Like said, imo it's simply blown out of proportion. Hate BW or SWTOR all you like, but at least try to uphold a modicum of reason and objectivity, trying to make this into 'BW dev don't listen at all to their testers, it was all a hoax!' kind of stuff definitely isn't.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
who said anything about hating anyone? i love bioware games(so far).. love star wars got my pre-order coming and can't wait to play. All I'm stating is how anyone can defend there reasoning about taking match to chest option out of the game. Even if something else is coming who knows how long and even if something new comes why not just leave this optional feature in. Then to say the main reason they are removing is because so many armors are just re-colors it takes away from the feeling of any upgrade is just absurd any way you look at it.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html