OP, the reason people respond the way they do is because they didn't even bother skimming your wall of text, combined with your title. Without context it kinda sounds like you're on a mission to "save" SWTOR, which, considering most SWG vets' attitudes towards the game, would mean to "fix" it, that is making it more like SWG pre-NGE.
<childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>
love how when people say they are SWG Vets everyone else is suppose to bow down and listen like you are a god or some shit.
And thus he contributed not to the conversation, and was struck down by SWG Vets...I kid, but then I hope you were too. No doubt there are still a lot of people that still feel hurt about losing their game, and voice it often--but it was fairly unprecedented in MMO history, so I give those that are still angry some leeway...
After 6 years, rather than making our eyes bleed from the same whining, perhaps they should look at the counseling that they should have submitted to years ago eh?
My God, one of those fruit cakes traced my IP, and was stalking not only myself, but my teenage daughter as well. It wasnt just us, as he went after several other folks besides. Lets not forget the "bomb threat" that person made for SOE fair to put the icing on the cake.
Instead of showing sympathy, these folks need to be told to STFU, and seek help if they cant let go. Doing otherwise is simply being an enabler.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
You sure spent a lot of time, and text, to say "don't ask for nerfs to other classes and professions".
Well said, well said indeed. All I would add is there where not many complaints in the SWG forums as they where heavily moderated and then the ban stick came out if you keep posting. We came here to have a voice and to talk about what was wrong. We all need to remember this place that we came to. MMORPG.COM is a place we can still speak our peace and not be cut off at the knees or silenced.
I agree with these two, as for saving ToR okay b, how bout let the game launch first. People will always complain its nature for a gamer to complain, I still do it mostly in sports and FPS games its a habital norm to do so. Also I'll be honest I didn't read your entire post I made it about 6 paragraphs down and was ready to stop there sum it up better please since it started to just seem like a nostaglic rant.
Lastly this may be in your post but as I said I didn't read it all but did you even play NGE???? It in all honesty was pretty damn good, it added content, made classes more balanced sure it gave it a wow facelift, but I actually enjoyed SWG this last year thanks to those improvements. I even dare to admit I'd still pay to play SWG even when ToR launches. I'll simply say the NGE at first glance wasn't something I enjoyed but I eventually adapted to what had changed around me and really started to enjoy it a whole lot more than I did Pre-CU.
You sure spent a lot of time, and text, to say "don't ask for nerfs to other classes and professions".
While i generally agree with that idea, I disagree with your idea that you should never complain about anything, even if it is so bad that it makes you quit playing. Sorry, but if something is so bad that it makes me quit, then no, I will not ignore the exit survey and keep it to myself. The game doesn't improve if people ignore the things they hate. Just like in beta, you provide feedback and hope the devs are good enough to weed the important stuff out from the whines.
Plus, sometime some things are overpowered and need to be nerfed for the betterment of the game.
no, I never said something "bad", I said something YOU may not like, that others do--and to accept that, not ruin it for them. I don't want my input to cause the devs to remove a feature that some players enjoy...unless it's not working as intended of course--lol many people enjoy exploits.
In fact, I'm not one of those people that really buys the "overpowered" argument unless it's a bug or exploit.
Well some things are overpowered. It's not a matter of buying it. Sometimes things end up being more powerful than expected, or is simply unbalanced with everything else. It happens. Not nearly as much as people on message boards cry about, but it does happen.
If you dislike something, it is bad, from your perspective. If i dislike something, it is bad, from my perspective. If i dislike something that you like, that doesn't make my opinion invalid. It could be that the majority of people dislike it. If no one says anything, per your suggestion, then there would be a lot of unhappy people. And if all of them quit without saying why, what happens to the game? It is silly to simply accept things that you don't like, and not say a word. Things never get better if no one acknowledges there is a problem. SWG didn't fail because people complained, it failed because people made mistakes. People have complained daily about things in WoW, ever since the beginning, and it is still going strong.
It's obvious most of the folks who replied didn't read your post, just the title or the first chapter. Not enough patience or stamina *shrugs*
I think you have a point but will it happen, don't think so (read above). And they are the ones who will do it as they don't have the patience to listen to the SWTOR story either (click click click.. on with the killing).
And the ones that are happy or content don't complain in the forums.
What I think BW/EA should do is do questionnaires in game (when logging in or something) about the class or some functionality so that they get everyone's opinion. Will this happen? Don't think so - unfortunately
You sure spent a lot of time, and text, to say "don't ask for nerfs to other classes and professions".
While i generally agree with that idea, I disagree with your idea that you should never complain about anything, even if it is so bad that it makes you quit playing. Sorry, but if something is so bad that it makes me quit, then no, I will not ignore the exit survey and keep it to myself. The game doesn't improve if people ignore the things they hate. Just like in beta, you provide feedback and hope the devs are good enough to weed the important stuff out from the whines.
Plus, sometime some things are overpowered and need to be nerfed for the betterment of the game.
no, I never said something "bad", I said something YOU may not like, that others do--and to accept that, not ruin it for them. I don't want my input to cause the devs to remove a feature that some players enjoy...unless it's not working as intended of course--lol many people enjoy exploits.
In fact, I'm not one of those people that really buys the "overpowered" argument unless it's a bug or exploit.
One problem I have with short posts like "don't ask for nerfs to other classes!", is it lacks personality and is somewhat confrontational without context...and although I knew the "wall of text" comments were coming, thanks for participating.
Even considering that you, scoutmaster, said "I said something YOU may not like, that others do" rather than something that was just "bad" as Kiern accused you of, I still think Kierns stance towards providing honest feedback is the more sensible and helpful approach .
You suggest that lying about the reasons you quit would help the game be better than telling the truth when you said "if you rage quit because your character is too lame to complete the quest or you don't have any friends that are willing to help you, then don't mention why you're quitting when they ask you...make up something like "school/work demands" or don't give a reason at all. That way, it doesn't jeopardize something others enjoy." If people are quiting in droves because they cannot find friends to play with and told the truth bioware might actually improve the social matchmaking components and the game might retain more players while if they lie it could completely mislead the developers.
I'm sorry but Kierns attitude and take on the issue, in his one main paragraph, is far more far more helpful to the success of the game in the long term than your original post. In my opinion your post was well writtenbut it wasn't logical. You suggest that providing false information on individual feedback forms would give the developers a more sound understanding of what needs to stay the same or change in order to satisfy people. In short I think Kierns approach was the right one.
...Plus, sometime some things are overpowered and need to be nerfed for the betterment of the game...
Like Slicing. For a while in beta it was the best way to make the big money. Had a 14th level slicer that spent creds like water, and still had 4 times as much on hand as my very frugal 23rd level that could barely afford skill training. Of course the 'on hand' was before buying that levels worth of skills for the 23rd level, but afterwards for the 14th.
Yeah, it was that money heavy, but you got almost no components. In all that time, my slicer had only gotten about 6 crafting components from the skill.
They fixed it, it now drops stuff in line with the other gathering/mission skills, more or less. And when they did, the whining just about shattered every window in the game. Seems some people forgot that balancing is also done in betas. Fortunately there were plenty of experienced beta testers that damped down the impending mob.
Sometimes nerfs are needed, yes. But then again, Sony is a company known for Nerfophilia. If it can be fixed with an hours worth of work, or two hours of nerfing, they go for the nerf. Talk about nerf-herders... (yeah, star wars reference) Is Bioware going to do the same thing? Maybe, but they seem to be more on the ball, so I'm thinking they'll strive for balance +/- as appropriate.
Still, the first poster is right also, don't whine too much about somebody else being better at something. Most of the time I see someone in games QQing about so-and-so is better at something than my character, it's usually because that character was designed to only do that as a secondary, or even tertiary ability, while the one the complainer is crying about being overpowered was designed for that to be one of it's primary abilities.
As to the long explanation, I obviously get stuck in those too. It's an attempt to explain and convince rather than just saying something like, "nuh-uh, is not...". (Especially if there are several points to make, arguing like a 1st grader is pointless.)
You sure spent a lot of time, and text, to say "don't ask for nerfs to other classes and professions".
While i generally agree with that idea, I disagree with your idea that you should never complain about anything, even if it is so bad that it makes you quit playing. Sorry, but if something is so bad that it makes me quit, then no, I will not ignore the exit survey and keep it to myself. The game doesn't improve if people ignore the things they hate. Just like in beta, you provide feedback and hope the devs are good enough to weed the important stuff out from the whines.
Plus, sometime some things are overpowered and need to be nerfed for the betterment of the game.
no, I never said something "bad", I said something YOU may not like, that others do--and to accept that, not ruin it for them. I don't want my input to cause the devs to remove a feature that some players enjoy...unless it's not working as intended of course--lol many people enjoy exploits.
In fact, I'm not one of those people that really buys the "overpowered" argument unless it's a bug or exploit.
Well some things are overpowered. It's not a matter of buying it. Sometimes things end up being more powerful than expected, or is simply unbalanced with everything else. It happens. Not nearly as much as people on message boards cry about, but it does happen.
If you dislike something, it is bad, from your perspective. If i dislike something, it is bad, from my perspective. If i dislike something that you like, that doesn't make my opinion invalid. It could be that the majority of people dislike it. If no one says anything, per your suggestion, then there would be a lot of unhappy people. And if all of them quit without saying why, what happens to the game? It is silly to simply accept things that you don't like, and not say a word. Things never get better if no one acknowledges there is a problem. SWG didn't fail because people complained, it failed because people made mistakes. People have complained daily about things in WoW, ever since the beginning, and it is still going strong.
I believe that because of that fact--that it's in player's nature to only think about his/herself (and their circle)--that cash shops might help some people avoid those things they don't like doing, but were put in game for a reason--especially if those features are enjoyed by a lot of players. I do agree there is a limit...devs can "grief" players too lol, and sometimes we have to speak up.
Originally posted by Majwood is it just me? but I hope there are no SWG vets that play SWTOR because from reading these forums for years they have been some of the biggest cry babies I have ever seen. Go find something else to play SWTOR will be good with out you. SWTOR doesnt need saving it just doesnt need a bunch of cry babies.
You sure spent a lot of time, and text, to say "don't ask for nerfs to other classes and professions".
While i generally agree with that idea, I disagree with your idea that you should never complain about anything, even if it is so bad that it makes you quit playing. Sorry, but if something is so bad that it makes me quit, then no, I will not ignore the exit survey and keep it to myself. The game doesn't improve if people ignore the things they hate. Just like in beta, you provide feedback and hope the devs are good enough to weed the important stuff out from the whines.
Plus, sometime some things are overpowered and need to be nerfed for the betterment of the game.
no, I never said something "bad", I said something YOU may not like, that others do--and to accept that, not ruin it for them. I don't want my input to cause the devs to remove a feature that some players enjoy...unless it's not working as intended of course--lol many people enjoy exploits.
In fact, I'm not one of those people that really buys the "overpowered" argument unless it's a bug or exploit.
One problem I have with short posts like "don't ask for nerfs to other classes!", is it lacks personality and is somewhat confrontational without context...and although I knew the "wall of text" comments were coming, thanks for participating.
Even considering that you, scoutmaster, said "I said something YOU may not like, that others do" rather than something that was just "bad" as Kiern accused you of, I still think Kierns stance towards providing honest feedback is the more sensible and helpful approach .
You suggest that lying about the reasons you quit would help the game be better than telling the truth when you said "if you rage quit because your character is too lame to complete the quest or you don't have any friends that are willing to help you, then don't mention why you're quitting when they ask you...make up something like "school/work demands" or don't give a reason at all. That way, it doesn't jeopardize something others enjoy." If people are quiting in droves because they cannot find friends to play with and told the truth bioware might actually improve the social matchmaking components and the game might retain more players while if they lie it could completely mislead the developers.
I'm sorry but Kierns attitude and take on the issue, in his one main paragraph, is far more far more helpful to the success of the game in the long term than your original post. In my opinion your post was well writtenbut it wasn't logical. You suggest that providing false information on individual feedback forms would give the developers a more sound understanding of what needs to stay the same or change in order to satisfy people. In short I think Kierns approach was the right one.
Yes, you guys have a point--I should probably have addressed that more to devs than players...I know how frustrating it is to have something removed from a game that was important to my enjoyment, and how the devs justified it's removal...which is, it's easier to remove it, instead of providing a path around it...like maybe cash shops. Hopefully BIOWARE/EA won't take that path, and instead of removing things that annoy some players, they'll come up with a better solution.
is it just me? but I hope there are no SWG vets that play SWTOR because from reading these forums for years they have been some of the biggest cry babies I have ever seen. Go find something else to play SWTOR will be good with out you. SWTOR doesnt need saving it just doesnt need a bunch of cry babies.
+1 but that goes for all the whiners.
There are a few good sandbox posters on this site. The ones that stand out as good sports are Kyleran and Loke666. The problem being is that they are the exception, and not the rule.
If there was a MMO site that was equal to what MMORPG.com offers, and without the whining about "we want a sandbox", I would leave this place and never look back.
Then again maybe I wouldnt. The melt downs each time a new themepark is announced makes the rest of the BS somewhat tolerable.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
You spent a lot of time writing but i dont think that devs are stupid to do whatever the community says.
They do what they want and what earns them money.
Money is behind everything
Actually BW caved on a couple of issues in the past yr or so.
Same sex stuff in Mass Effect/TOR, and putting any type of Uncle Owen play into game. The sandbox shit on this site is a drop in the bucket compared to what was on the O forums. Eventually they relented, and threw the folks a slight bone.
It is nothing like what the sandbox fans wanted, but BW did at least try to hook them up.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
is it just me? but I hope there are no SWG vets that play SWTOR because from reading these forums for years they have been some of the biggest cry babies I have ever seen. Go find something else to play SWTOR will be good with out you. SWTOR doesnt need saving it just doesnt need a bunch of cry babies.
+1 but that goes for all the whiners.
There are a few good sandbox posters on this site. The ones that stand out as good sports are Kyleran and Loke666. The problem being is that they are the exception, and not the rule.
If there was a MMO site that was equal to what MMORPG.com offers, and without the whining about "we want a sandbox", I would leave this place and never look back.
Then again maybe I wouldnt. The melt downs each time a new themepark is announced makes the rest of the BS somewhat tolerable.
This is all off topic but anyway. I think you'll find there are more than two good posters who like sandbox games. I think you'll find that because not everyone who likes them continually whines about the lack of good ones. While I am probably not a good poster I rarely whine about it and don't visit regularly enough for you to even know I prefer sandbox games. I imagine there are more like me but with a better ability to write
...Plus, sometime some things are overpowered and need to be nerfed for the betterment of the game...
Like Slicing. For a while in beta it was the best way to make the big money. Had a 14th level slicer that spent creds like water, and still had 4 times as much on hand as my very frugal 23rd level that could barely afford skill training. Of course the 'on hand' was before buying that levels worth of skills for the 23rd level, but afterwards for the 14th.
Yeah, it was that money heavy, but you got almost no components. In all that time, my slicer had only gotten about 6 crafting components from the skill.
They fixed it, it now drops stuff in line with the other gathering/mission skills, more or less. And when they did, the whining just about shattered every window in the game. Seems some people forgot that balancing is also done in betas. Fortunately there were plenty of experienced beta testers that damped down the impending mob.
Sometimes nerfs are needed, yes. But then again, Sony is a company known for Nerfophilia. If it can be fixed with an hours worth of work, or two hours of nerfing, they go for the nerf. Talk about nerf-herders... (yeah, star wars reference) Is Bioware going to do the same thing? Maybe, but they seem to be more on the ball, so I'm thinking they'll strive for balance +/- as appropriate.
Still, the first poster is right also, don't whine too much about somebody else being better at something. Most of the time I see someone in games QQing about so-and-so is better at something than my character, it's usually because that character was designed to only do that as a secondary, or even tertiary ability, while the one the complainer is crying about being overpowered was designed for that to be one of it's primary abilities.
As to the long explanation, I obviously get stuck in those too. It's an attempt to explain and convince rather than just saying something like, "nuh-uh, is not...". (Especially if there are several points to make, arguing like a 1st grader is pointless.)
Thanks for reading
I agree that if something isn't working the way the devs intended--like making too much money--then they should balance it out, but if it is working like intended, and other classes are complaining that they don't have the same kind of "perk" or ability...like you said, it could be because they don't have an understanding of WHY they aren't able to do what the other class can--it could be that their class's perk lies elsewhere, and they're barking up the wrong tree--but when everyone jumps on that "flavor of the month" because it's able to do whatever it is that the other classes can't--I can see the devs going one of two ways--they nerf that perk, or add something to entice players to other classes...here's hoping we can avoid the former!
As for the long posts--I don't know why, but it makes me feel like I'm communicating with, or just getting into the head of, an actual person when I read them:)
It's obvious most of the folks who replied didn't read your post, just the title or the first chapter. Not enough patience or stamina *shrugs*
I think you have a point but will it happen, don't think so (read above). And they are the ones who will do it as they don't have the patience to listen to the SWTOR story either (click click click.. on with the killing).
And the ones that are happy or content don't complain in the forums.
What I think BW/EA should do is do questionnaires in game (when logging in or something) about the class or some functionality so that they get everyone's opinion. Will this happen? Don't think so - unfortunately
LOGIN/OUT questionnaires sort of like they had in beta???...excellent suggestion! And it's a way for them to stay ahead of the game..ie before the sh!t hits the forums LOL. That's the best time for a player to voice his/her concerns directly to BIOWARE devs.
SOE CU/NGE is the poster child of how to ruin a MMO..... Every Developer knows this and I seriously doubt we will ever see a Developer try and pull the same thing on their customers what SOE did to theirs..
The biggest obstacle SWG had was a extremely steep learning curve, with no tutorials or anything else to help you get going a lot of people got frustrated and left before really giving the game a chance. Even tho I think SWG had decent amount of subscribers I do think most of that was artificially inflated due to people having 2-4 accounts each due to only being able to create one toon at a time.. If you removed all the extra accounts people had the true population was pretty low...
As much as people like to think otherwise SWG was not that popular.... this is one of the reasons SOE tried to do what they did.. After WOW came out, they saw that Theme Park MMO's was where the money was and tried to convert SWG into one.... which turned into a huge mess and gave SWG a terrible reputation once the Vets went on the war path telling everyone who listened how screwed SWG:NGE was and how SOE treated there customers..
SWG had great potential but greed won out and destroyed it....
So bottom line: The players had nothing to do with the demise of SWG, I put that blame squarely on SOE and LucasArts...
Honestly i doubt that Bioware is crazy enough to really go to far out from what they have already created to get even close to what SWG did to destroy itself. Swg had an incredible steep learning curve coming into the game for the first time and ill admit if it hadnt been for ppl helping me out and getting me in a guild and having a kind of mentors id probably wouldnt have lasted more then the free month. That said once you got pass that the game had alot that you could do and alot of versatility to keep you doing activities even without alot of missions.
The game was really set up for a almost totally player run entertainment. Think if the creators would have had time to really put in extras and get it going well it would have done better. The fact remains that most of what you had to do was based off what others needed or wanted. Someone needed hide you went scout/ranger and got it. Pretty simple. Now having said im a SWG vet yeah ill admit i still hate that they killed the game and that i never have found another that entertained me nearly as well or as long. I dont stay up crying but i have been known to complain to others about it going south with the NGE.
Think Soe biggest mistake was looking at Wow and all its Themepark sucess and thinking that being like it was a way to make cash. Now from a certain point of view it makes sense but they didnt think that if they got that experience with Wow then why would they leave it for the same thing with SWG. Greed and stupidity killed SWG and its been having its bones picked on for years TBH. The game needs to end and ppl need to leave it alone. Dont forget it just stop bringing it up so much.
Bioware seems like they have their plan well in hand and are gonna stick to their own course which honestly is probably a good thing. Now as far as the Op yeah if you dont have to suffer threw some aspect of the game then its wise to let it go. If something makes you do alittle effort but has the effect of making alot of others happy then bite your lip and press on. But if something is making you quit or is so bad that your gonna leave game you should say something. Dont have to make a dozen post on every site that will let you but you should let your thoughts be heard.
I like the OP and I did read it and I do agree that players should not attack each other or request nerfing too much.
That being said, in my opinion nerfing is great. I think every game developer should watch what classes people are playing in their games and nerf those classes, and give the classes nobody is playing cooler and more powerful abilities. When 50% of players are all playing the same class, that is a huge indication that a nerf is needed. Developers need to nerf gradually and watch how the players react.
But nerfing is great. Especially when done quickly, because the longer you let players be overpowered the longer they'll think it is OK. That is one of the problems with SWG...
In SWG the buffs were overpowered. This was a huge problem with the combat starting around 2 months into the games release... A HUGE problem. Nobody wanted to say it because every player 'benefited' from it, but it ruined the gameplay mechanics significantly. The whole HAM system, the armor system, the skill system, the balancing for riflemen, etc. It had a HUGE effect. The buffs were SUPER OVERPOWERED. In my opinion, this eventually led to the NGE. I know most wouldnt agree.
is it just me? but I hope there are no SWG vets that play SWTOR because from reading these forums for years they have been some of the biggest cry babies I have ever seen. Go find something else to play SWTOR will be good with out you. SWTOR doesnt need saving it just doesnt need a bunch of cry babies.
+1 but that goes for all the whiners.
There are a few good sandbox posters on this site. The ones that stand out as good sports are Kyleran and Loke666. The problem being is that they are the exception, and not the rule.
If there was a MMO site that was equal to what MMORPG.com offers, and without the whining about "we want a sandbox", I would leave this place and never look back.
Then again maybe I wouldnt. The melt downs each time a new themepark is announced makes the rest of the BS somewhat tolerable.
This is all off topic but anyway. I think you'll find there are more than two good posters who like sandbox games. I think you'll find that because not everyone who likes them continually whines about the lack of good ones. While I am probably not a good poster I rarely whine about it and don't visit regularly enough for you to even know I prefer sandbox games. I imagine there are more like me but with a better ability to write
Without at least 1k posts, your name really wont stand out to anyone unless you are making a bunch of "wah" posts.
Kyl and Loke are ones that have stood out to me. They are pretty damn fair posters, and even though they like a different genre, I respect their opinion. I am sure there are others, and I dont recognize them. The problem being is that misery luvs company, and it is the norm for sandbox gamers to sound off about themeparks in their "why cant we have a sandbox" thread that is started anew every day or two.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
It's obvious most of the folks who replied didn't read your post, just the title or the first chapter. Not enough patience or stamina *shrugs*
I think you have a point but will it happen, don't think so (read above). And they are the ones who will do it as they don't have the patience to listen to the SWTOR story either (click click click.. on with the killing).
And the ones that are happy or content don't complain in the forums.
What I think BW/EA should do is do questionnaires in game (when logging in or something) about the class or some functionality so that they get everyone's opinion. Will this happen? Don't think so - unfortunately
LOGIN/OUT questionnaires sort of like they had in beta???...excellent suggestion! And it's a way for them to stay ahead of the game..ie before the sh!t hits the forums LOL. That's the best time for a player to voice his/her concerns directly to BIOWARE devs.
I also agree. That way they'd get feedback from the most people (majority) rather than the most vocal.
You spent a lot of time writing but i dont think that devs are stupid to do whatever the community says.
They do what they want and what earns them money.
Money is behind everything
Not sure about BIOWARE yet, but apparently there are some companies that listen to their communities and make positive changes, and then there are those that listen to their community and make negative changes based on that feedback...negative in the "not the desired result" way...no doubt though, money is the key--and so they have to at least pretend to listen to the players that pay the bills lol.
is it just me? but I hope there are no SWG vets that play SWTOR because from reading these forums for years they have been some of the biggest cry babies I have ever seen. Go find something else to play SWTOR will be good with out you. SWTOR doesnt need saving it just doesnt need a bunch of cry babies.
Awesome contribution. I'm sure TOR will be so much better off with folks like yourself in the game. :rolleyes:
Majwood speaks the truth though.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
I really didnt feel like reading all of that once you started talking about nerfs. Thats in every game since the beginning of MMORPG's. Its called balance. You dont need to be a SWG outcast to know about nerfs and that "insight" certainly isnt anything SWTOR needs SWG outcasts opinions on.
Comments
OP, the reason people respond the way they do is because they didn't even bother skimming your wall of text, combined with your title. Without context it kinda sounds like you're on a mission to "save" SWTOR, which, considering most SWG vets' attitudes towards the game, would mean to "fix" it, that is making it more like SWG pre-NGE.
<childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>
After 6 years, rather than making our eyes bleed from the same whining, perhaps they should look at the counseling that they should have submitted to years ago eh?
My God, one of those fruit cakes traced my IP, and was stalking not only myself, but my teenage daughter as well. It wasnt just us, as he went after several other folks besides. Lets not forget the "bomb threat" that person made for SOE fair to put the icing on the cake.
Instead of showing sympathy, these folks need to be told to STFU, and seek help if they cant let go. Doing otherwise is simply being an enabler.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I agree with these two, as for saving ToR okay b, how bout let the game launch first. People will always complain its nature for a gamer to complain, I still do it mostly in sports and FPS games its a habital norm to do so. Also I'll be honest I didn't read your entire post I made it about 6 paragraphs down and was ready to stop there sum it up better please since it started to just seem like a nostaglic rant.
Lastly this may be in your post but as I said I didn't read it all but did you even play NGE???? It in all honesty was pretty damn good, it added content, made classes more balanced sure it gave it a wow facelift, but I actually enjoyed SWG this last year thanks to those improvements. I even dare to admit I'd still pay to play SWG even when ToR launches. I'll simply say the NGE at first glance wasn't something I enjoyed but I eventually adapted to what had changed around me and really started to enjoy it a whole lot more than I did Pre-CU.
Well some things are overpowered. It's not a matter of buying it. Sometimes things end up being more powerful than expected, or is simply unbalanced with everything else. It happens. Not nearly as much as people on message boards cry about, but it does happen.
If you dislike something, it is bad, from your perspective. If i dislike something, it is bad, from my perspective. If i dislike something that you like, that doesn't make my opinion invalid. It could be that the majority of people dislike it. If no one says anything, per your suggestion, then there would be a lot of unhappy people. And if all of them quit without saying why, what happens to the game? It is silly to simply accept things that you don't like, and not say a word. Things never get better if no one acknowledges there is a problem. SWG didn't fail because people complained, it failed because people made mistakes. People have complained daily about things in WoW, ever since the beginning, and it is still going strong.
It's obvious most of the folks who replied didn't read your post, just the title or the first chapter. Not enough patience or stamina *shrugs*
I think you have a point but will it happen, don't think so (read above). And they are the ones who will do it as they don't have the patience to listen to the SWTOR story either (click click click.. on with the killing).
And the ones that are happy or content don't complain in the forums.
What I think BW/EA should do is do questionnaires in game (when logging in or something) about the class or some functionality so that they get everyone's opinion. Will this happen? Don't think so - unfortunately
A) Let the game launch first.
C) SWG will be gone. Forever. Let it go.
Edit: and Flirt, Bioware has been VERY proactive in how it has been communicating with beta testers.
Even considering that you, scoutmaster, said "I said something YOU may not like, that others do" rather than something that was just "bad" as Kiern accused you of, I still think Kierns stance towards providing honest feedback is the more sensible and helpful approach .
You suggest that lying about the reasons you quit would help the game be better than telling the truth when you said "if you rage quit because your character is too lame to complete the quest or you don't have any friends that are willing to help you, then don't mention why you're quitting when they ask you...make up something like "school/work demands" or don't give a reason at all. That way, it doesn't jeopardize something others enjoy." If people are quiting in droves because they cannot find friends to play with and told the truth bioware might actually improve the social matchmaking components and the game might retain more players while if they lie it could completely mislead the developers.
I'm sorry but Kierns attitude and take on the issue, in his one main paragraph, is far more far more helpful to the success of the game in the long term than your original post. In my opinion your post was well writtenbut it wasn't logical. You suggest that providing false information on individual feedback forms would give the developers a more sound understanding of what needs to stay the same or change in order to satisfy people. In short I think Kierns approach was the right one.
Like Slicing. For a while in beta it was the best way to make the big money. Had a 14th level slicer that spent creds like water, and still had 4 times as much on hand as my very frugal 23rd level that could barely afford skill training. Of course the 'on hand' was before buying that levels worth of skills for the 23rd level, but afterwards for the 14th.
Yeah, it was that money heavy, but you got almost no components. In all that time, my slicer had only gotten about 6 crafting components from the skill.
They fixed it, it now drops stuff in line with the other gathering/mission skills, more or less. And when they did, the whining just about shattered every window in the game. Seems some people forgot that balancing is also done in betas. Fortunately there were plenty of experienced beta testers that damped down the impending mob.
Sometimes nerfs are needed, yes. But then again, Sony is a company known for Nerfophilia. If it can be fixed with an hours worth of work, or two hours of nerfing, they go for the nerf. Talk about nerf-herders... (yeah, star wars reference) Is Bioware going to do the same thing? Maybe, but they seem to be more on the ball, so I'm thinking they'll strive for balance +/- as appropriate.
Still, the first poster is right also, don't whine too much about somebody else being better at something. Most of the time I see someone in games QQing about so-and-so is better at something than my character, it's usually because that character was designed to only do that as a secondary, or even tertiary ability, while the one the complainer is crying about being overpowered was designed for that to be one of it's primary abilities.
As to the long explanation, I obviously get stuck in those too. It's an attempt to explain and convince rather than just saying something like, "nuh-uh, is not...". (Especially if there are several points to make, arguing like a 1st grader is pointless.)
Thanks for reading
Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...
I believe that because of that fact--that it's in player's nature to only think about his/herself (and their circle)--that cash shops might help some people avoid those things they don't like doing, but were put in game for a reason--especially if those features are enjoyed by a lot of players. I do agree there is a limit...devs can "grief" players too lol, and sometimes we have to speak up.
+1 but that goes for all the whiners.
Yes, you guys have a point--I should probably have addressed that more to devs than players...I know how frustrating it is to have something removed from a game that was important to my enjoyment, and how the devs justified it's removal...which is, it's easier to remove it, instead of providing a path around it...like maybe cash shops. Hopefully BIOWARE/EA won't take that path, and instead of removing things that annoy some players, they'll come up with a better solution.
There are a few good sandbox posters on this site. The ones that stand out as good sports are Kyleran and Loke666. The problem being is that they are the exception, and not the rule.
If there was a MMO site that was equal to what MMORPG.com offers, and without the whining about "we want a sandbox", I would leave this place and never look back.
Then again maybe I wouldnt. The melt downs each time a new themepark is announced makes the rest of the BS somewhat tolerable.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
You spent a lot of time writing but i dont think that devs are stupid to do whatever the community says.
They do what they want and what earns them money.
Money is behind everything
Hey Glenn Beck, get off of MMORPG.com forums, please. Thanks.
Argh
Actually BW caved on a couple of issues in the past yr or so.
Same sex stuff in Mass Effect/TOR, and putting any type of Uncle Owen play into game. The sandbox shit on this site is a drop in the bucket compared to what was on the O forums. Eventually they relented, and threw the folks a slight bone.
It is nothing like what the sandbox fans wanted, but BW did at least try to hook them up.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
This is all off topic but anyway. I think you'll find there are more than two good posters who like sandbox games. I think you'll find that because not everyone who likes them continually whines about the lack of good ones. While I am probably not a good poster I rarely whine about it and don't visit regularly enough for you to even know I prefer sandbox games. I imagine there are more like me but with a better ability to write
I agree that if something isn't working the way the devs intended--like making too much money--then they should balance it out, but if it is working like intended, and other classes are complaining that they don't have the same kind of "perk" or ability...like you said, it could be because they don't have an understanding of WHY they aren't able to do what the other class can--it could be that their class's perk lies elsewhere, and they're barking up the wrong tree--but when everyone jumps on that "flavor of the month" because it's able to do whatever it is that the other classes can't--I can see the devs going one of two ways--they nerf that perk, or add something to entice players to other classes...here's hoping we can avoid the former!
As for the long posts--I don't know why, but it makes me feel like I'm communicating with, or just getting into the head of, an actual person when I read them:)
LOGIN/OUT questionnaires sort of like they had in beta???...excellent suggestion! And it's a way for them to stay ahead of the game..ie before the sh!t hits the forums LOL. That's the best time for a player to voice his/her concerns directly to BIOWARE devs.
Honestly i doubt that Bioware is crazy enough to really go to far out from what they have already created to get even close to what SWG did to destroy itself. Swg had an incredible steep learning curve coming into the game for the first time and ill admit if it hadnt been for ppl helping me out and getting me in a guild and having a kind of mentors id probably wouldnt have lasted more then the free month. That said once you got pass that the game had alot that you could do and alot of versatility to keep you doing activities even without alot of missions.
The game was really set up for a almost totally player run entertainment. Think if the creators would have had time to really put in extras and get it going well it would have done better. The fact remains that most of what you had to do was based off what others needed or wanted. Someone needed hide you went scout/ranger and got it. Pretty simple. Now having said im a SWG vet yeah ill admit i still hate that they killed the game and that i never have found another that entertained me nearly as well or as long. I dont stay up crying but i have been known to complain to others about it going south with the NGE.
Think Soe biggest mistake was looking at Wow and all its Themepark sucess and thinking that being like it was a way to make cash. Now from a certain point of view it makes sense but they didnt think that if they got that experience with Wow then why would they leave it for the same thing with SWG. Greed and stupidity killed SWG and its been having its bones picked on for years TBH. The game needs to end and ppl need to leave it alone. Dont forget it just stop bringing it up so much.
Bioware seems like they have their plan well in hand and are gonna stick to their own course which honestly is probably a good thing. Now as far as the Op yeah if you dont have to suffer threw some aspect of the game then its wise to let it go. If something makes you do alittle effort but has the effect of making alot of others happy then bite your lip and press on. But if something is making you quit or is so bad that your gonna leave game you should say something. Dont have to make a dozen post on every site that will let you but you should let your thoughts be heard.
I like the OP and I did read it and I do agree that players should not attack each other or request nerfing too much.
That being said, in my opinion nerfing is great. I think every game developer should watch what classes people are playing in their games and nerf those classes, and give the classes nobody is playing cooler and more powerful abilities. When 50% of players are all playing the same class, that is a huge indication that a nerf is needed. Developers need to nerf gradually and watch how the players react.
But nerfing is great. Especially when done quickly, because the longer you let players be overpowered the longer they'll think it is OK. That is one of the problems with SWG...
In SWG the buffs were overpowered. This was a huge problem with the combat starting around 2 months into the games release... A HUGE problem. Nobody wanted to say it because every player 'benefited' from it, but it ruined the gameplay mechanics significantly. The whole HAM system, the armor system, the skill system, the balancing for riflemen, etc. It had a HUGE effect. The buffs were SUPER OVERPOWERED. In my opinion, this eventually led to the NGE. I know most wouldnt agree.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
Without at least 1k posts, your name really wont stand out to anyone unless you are making a bunch of "wah" posts.
Kyl and Loke are ones that have stood out to me. They are pretty damn fair posters, and even though they like a different genre, I respect their opinion. I am sure there are others, and I dont recognize them. The problem being is that misery luvs company, and it is the norm for sandbox gamers to sound off about themeparks in their "why cant we have a sandbox" thread that is started anew every day or two.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I also agree. That way they'd get feedback from the most people (majority) rather than the most vocal.
Not sure about BIOWARE yet, but apparently there are some companies that listen to their communities and make positive changes, and then there are those that listen to their community and make negative changes based on that feedback...negative in the "not the desired result" way...no doubt though, money is the key--and so they have to at least pretend to listen to the players that pay the bills lol.
Majwood speaks the truth though.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
I really didnt feel like reading all of that once you started talking about nerfs. Thats in every game since the beginning of MMORPG's. Its called balance. You dont need to be a SWG outcast to know about nerfs and that "insight" certainly isnt anything SWTOR needs SWG outcasts opinions on.