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Long time follower trial inpressions.
darthturtle1
Member Posts: 208
A long tme follower of MO is doing another trial and this is his imressions. Taken from this thread of another persons trial impressions. It is a bunch of bitter hardened vets telling new players they do not know shit the game is awesome. Get past the bugs!
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/70117-trial-players-view.html
 Today, 08:14 |
#37 (permalink) |
Junior Member  Join Date: Nov 2008 Rep Power: 0  |
 It seems as if you guys really want Mortal Online to stay as the 100-player niche game forever. Is that true? Because by your attitude it certainly seems so. If that is your sole intention, you're better off stopping to read this post here. If you on the other hand think this game could use a few thousand players more, read on. I agree with the op a lot. I understand him, as I've recently started playing MO trial myself and by the looks of it, I probably won't be buying the game. I love the concept of the game, the freedom and the mechanics. I really do. But the game itself is way too unfinished and unfriendly to attract enough new players to reach the "critical mass". The UI is horribly unintuitive. There are way too many secondary skills, coupled with the complete lack of decent documentation (and why do you need a book to learn how to boil water?). The graphics engine is glitchy, full of clipping, and still manages to be extremely heavy on your GPU even if it doesn't look that spectacular. The biggest low point for me is that the world is empty as a post-apocalyptic nuclear wasteland. There are groups of buildings here and there with no one living there. The towns have a few static NPCs selling wares. There are a few groups of mobs around, but they only move within their small designated area. And that's about it. It feels like such a dead world. This product is a rough diamond. Unfortunately I'm still on the fence if the gemcutter will be able to make it a real jewel or not. For now, I'll probably save my money and spend it on more finished products. The MMO genre really needs sandbox games like Darkfall and Mortal Online. Hopefully one day either of these Devs can develop their game into the "Fantasy EVE" we all wish for, or another (bigger) dev steps in and makes one that has sensible development resources. |
Comments
The game is empty because everybody got frustrated with the poor quality of the programming and left. When your character is bugged one time, okay, but multiple times? When you fall through the world multiple times? When you lose hours and hours of work on a REGULAR basis?
SV had no business of making anything more than notepad, but with a pocket full of money from daddy, he insisted on saying he was a great game developer/designer, and Henrik launched this black hole of a game. It won't grow, it won't become a polished stone, because to do that you'd have to fire Henrik and everybody else, and start from scratch. I don't think that's going to happen, so the small population that's there is all that will remain until the game finally shuts down. When that happens, who knows?
It's the same old story.
New player: "Hey guys, I tried MO becaues it looked like a different and interesting game, but I was disappointed with the bugs, the glitches, the clunky UI, the empty world and the general lack of direction. Just thought I'd let you know what a horrible experience new players have, so that you can make it better."
Fanboy vet: "I guess MO is too hardcore and sandboxy for you. Go back to WoW if you want to be hand-held and spoon-fed, you pansy!"
New player: "But... I'm a sandbox gamer, I hate WoW. I thought MO was the spiritual successor to UO..."
Fanboy vet: "I guess you're just stupid then. All the 50 people still playing the game got past the newb stage just fine so there's no need to change anything. If you won't join a guild the moment the log in, and if you refuse to use 3d party stuff like fan-made wikis, youtube videos and unofficial IRC chat, you're doing it wrong. Get good, you noob."
New player: "But it's 2011, you shouldn't be required to join a guild and do extensive research just to play a game... A good game is enjoyable from the start. Besides, hardcore does not equal bad."
Fanboy vet: "I don't like your attitude! Stop bashing my beloved game, you evil hater troll! You don't deserve MO, it's only for the select 50 fanboy vets still enjoying this exciting, hardcore world of bugs, exploits and meaningless PvP! We have a new wonderful patch coming very soon that will fix everything and make MO the best game in the world. Just wait and see! It's called the Epic patch... oh wait, no, it's called Dawn... no, wait, it's called the TC patch ... or was it the AI/GUI patch? I can't remember anymore."
New player: *shrugs* "OK, guess I'll be going then. Have fun guys."
Fanboy vet (to other Fanboy vet): "Good riddance! Damn trolls, why do they hate our game so much? And btw how come the pop is so low these days? Must be Skyrim's fault!"
Biskop that has to be the funniest yet truthful thing I have read in a while. It is what happens frequently to new players. The old vets do not remember how hard it was to get past bugs, glitches and horrible UI. Now that they have figured out workarounds for everything in the game they think every new person should do the same.
Also I really really hate everyone saying "join a guild" it is a fricken sandbox it should have a game for a new player wanting to start on his own. But it is frequently the answer all the vets give to the noobs if you want to have fun.
Most MO vets will tell you the game is buggy as hell. You guys act like the people playing MO are blind to the many bugs and think the game is perfect. That's not the case, just go read the forums.
SV is something joked about quite often in game because of how inept they are.
Edit: Also vets will usually tell noob to join a guild because it is really the only way to make it in game as a noob. MO vets all realize the game is very lacking when it comes to solo play (atleast most should know and will acknowledge this).
People who willingly admit that their game is crappy and the devs running it are incompetent amateurs, yet still keep supporting the game in question, are perhaps even more unworthy of respect than blind fanboys. Some of the guys at the MOFO have raged so much about the game and about SV, been banned, ragequit and so on, but they still keep giving Henrik their money, and defend MO as soon as someone new comes along and points out its obvious shortcomings. To me, that's not rational behaviour.
If I am aware that a product is shitty, I won't insult people who point out its shittiness. I sure as hell won't keep paying for it and using it. Claiming MO is for the "select few" who manage to endure the bugs, the lack of content, the slow development and absurd amount of unprofessionalism, just proves that you're the kind of person who thinks being part of the "special people's club" is something to be proud of.
As for the "join a guild" cliché: just because it's true doesn't mean it's right. You should NOT be required to join a guild before you even start playing a game - especially not a game claiming to be a sandbox.
To be fair, that was a bit harsh. Some people are just so hungry for a sand-box type game that even a game as badly made and ineptly run as MO will be tolerated. I agree it is sad but I can empathize with why some put up with it. But what they don't seem to understand is that by supporting these "bad" games, they are actually setting the sand-box genre back and preventing us from getting a better (dare we say good) sand-box MMO.
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
I don't play the game anymore and I never said that having to be in a guild was right. It's dumb that you pretty much need to be in a guild to enjoy the game. People still play simple because there's no other game like it at the moment. Even though I'm aware of the many downsides and bugs of Mortal Online I still sometimes consider resubbing simply because there are no other games like it. Believe it or not when things go right this game is amazing. You wont get the same experiences in MO as you will any other game on the market. The problem is that you don't get to have them experienes as often as you'd like because of, well... obvious reasons.
I don't see why you'd think that by people being subscribed to this game would set back the sandbox MMO genre. How does 500 people playing this game (I call BS to anyone who claims there are thousands playing) effect any other company that would want to make a sandbox game? Problem is there are not really any big name companies, atleast as far as I know, interested in making a sanbox because the market is dominated by themepark MMOs. It all boils down to money. There's money to be made in the theme park MMO business. Before you quote me and say I'm saying that sandbox games can't be successful I'll clarify right now that I am in no way saying that. If a big company were to take on a sandbox and release it with features they promise then yes it'll probably be very successful, plus there's Eve if you consider that a sandbox. But major game development companies seem interested in taking the easier route of a themepark, rake in the cash for about 6 months 'cause that's all it will entertain people for and then release another a year later lol. This is for another discussion I suppose..
It sets it back because as long as they limp along with a few players, the industry says "see, sandbox fans are so desperate, they will take whatever crap we dish out and charge full price for."
I agree with you, the main problem is the industry is stuck in this rut of making theme-park games that are safe and more of the same...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Perhaps I was a bit unclear. Of course I didn't mean everyone playing MO is unworthy of respect (I played it extensively myself for over a year btw).
I'm talking about the long-time, diehard fans who have been burned, fooled and lied to multiple times, yet keep defending MO any chance they get and automatically treat valid criticism as trolling/hate/flaming. When a new player expresses his/her frustration on the official forums, he/she usually gets the same treatment from the same group of people.
He/she gets told that MO isn't for everyone, that he/she isn't hardcore enough, that he/she should do his/her homework before even trying the game, that any flaws can be explained by SV being "a small team" and that the game has such "potential" that anyone in their right mind should overlook all the issues, etc.
It's the same players who writes numerous posts complaining about X or Y issue, then get their hopes up as soon as Henrik writes something about all the awesome features that are coming very soon - despite the man being a notorious hype-machine and proved liar.
Some people genuinely enjoy MO for what it is and despite its many flaws/bugs. I rarely hear anyone saying that the game is perfect. Quite the contrary... even the biggest fans will tell you that it has major issues. Still, some of us enjoy it. There is nothing wrong with that. To be honest, I feel sorry for those of you who can't seem to enjoy any game and spend your time primarily on forums like this one bashing the hard work of indie devs who have nothing but the best of intentions...
If you spent more time supporting those developers who actually try to make games FOR YOU supposed sandbox fans, rather than trashing them, maybe they would be more successful? Methinks you have no idea how incredibly hard it is to make a game with extremely limited resources. Passion and drive can only get you so far.
Duno, imo SV shown enough signs of incompetence of making and designing a MMO for one to wish them not becoming any kind of positive example for other developers, or others may think that you can treat your customers like trash, produce a very poor quality product (you know, smart design doesn't require extra resources, just some knowledge on what you are actually doing) and still succeed. Thanks, but I rather wait another few years for someone to dare to make a sandbox then let SV become an example of such.
Trying is not enough, you gotta show that you know what you are doing in terms of gameplay and features. If MO is supposed to be for sandbox fans, then I take it as an insult. It is not about them being indie or not, lacking resources or not. It is about them not having a clue how to design a MMO.
That kind of reasoning is getting old.
First off, this is a forum. It exists for the purpose of discussion and the voicing of opinions. So, if you can't stand people expressing opinions that are contrary to your own, you should refrain from reading and commenting.
Second, have it ever struck you that a lot of people "hate" on MO for a reason? The constant dismissal of criticism as "hate" and "bashing" is the result of a very limited point of view; most of the people who like to point out MO's shortcomings are former players who were once attracted by the game's promised features, and who often also had high hopes for it. Since SV failed on so many fronts, and since they have behaved so incredibly unprofessionally, a lot of us got sick of it and stopped hoping. Sure, some of the posters here seem to have an unhealthy obsession with MO, but most of the people "trashing" the game are simply gamers who are sick of amateurish companies expecting people to buy their inferior products based on hype talk and empty words.
Third, I don't care about intentions, drive, and passion, at least not if there are no tangible results. Most sandbox fans love MO's feature list and all the promised content, but sadly the reality of it is that the game ended up being very different from what SV originally said it would be like. Too bad for them, but visions and ideas do not keep people playing and paying.
After all, you said it yourself: making a game is very hard. Lesson learned: let competent people make them.
I accept that indie developers need support to produce more ambitious projects like MMOs and I'm happy to do so. However, throwing your money at anyone who promises to make your dream game, regardless of the actual quality of the product sends out a really bad message, namely that sandbox fans will pay top price for inferior products.
Indie developers need to get their budgets sorted and work on a realistic development cycle that is actually achievable. I'm sick of promising titles being sunk because the team thought they could smash out an MMO in 2 years on 50p and an all-pizza diet and what you get at the end is an expensive pile of junk that barely passes as a game. They keep doing this because they know people will apparently pay for anything.
Start small and build yourself up, then when you actually have the resources and, more crucially, experience to make an MMO go knock yourself out. Don't keep feeding the misconception that anyone can make a sandbox MMO if enough people throw money at them.
SV has obviously made many mistakes with this game and there are of course things they could have done better, but that doesn't mean that they deserve nothing but hatred and scorn. Their intention has always been to provide a fun and engaging sandbox game akin to the ones of old. Did it ever occur to you that the reason behind many of the problems they had and the fact that they had to release early is because of lack of funding and support from the community? And did you ever stop to think that maybe one of the reasons they lack the resources to properly respond to problems with the game even now is because so many of you hang around game forums and do nothing but try to scare others away from their game? What purpose does that serve other than to cause further harm to the game and in fact the entire sandbox MMO sub-genre?
All that you are accomplishing by relentlessly bashing the few indie devs who attempt to make sandbox games is ensuring that others who might have the will/ambition/resources to do so will think twice. It is one thing to walk away from a game due to its flaws/bugs and quite another to hang around on forums for it with the sole purpose of bad-mouthing it.
You seriously paint MO as some kind of holy grail and the last hope of sandbox. It is not, and never been it. What you basically are asking for is to continue feed the dog that bite you every time you do it. Well.. thanks, but I rather slap a warning sign next to it so others can avoid being harmed.
The problems behind MO have nothing to do with what is posted on this forum. The real negativity didn't start until close to launch when it became apparent that the game was going to be released in a state that was nowhere near release quality. Then as the problems mounted the negativity grew as a result. The core reason for MO's issues is that SV are totally out of their depth. Most of the team had little to no previous experience in developing a game and it shows.
It is clear from the piss-poor state of the game at release that the scope of their project wasn't even remotely within their means. To then expect customers to cover the deficit by charging them top dollar for an inferior product is unethical, quite frankly. Donations from the community during development to cover those extra couple of months are one thing; dwarf fortress is one of my favourite games and the project is sustained entirely on donations. Actually releasing a game onto the market and charging for the product is another matter entirely.
You may think that it doesn't matter how money ends up in SV's pockets, but it does. By buying and subscribing to MO you are sending out the message that this product is acceptable enough in its current state to deserve your custom and in doing so you are setting the bar on what is acceptable and what isn't. The reason why AAA companies churn out themeparks is because people pay for them in the millions. The indie scene is no different, so think about where you are investing your money. I'm not saying that SV delibrately made a bad game knowing people would buy it anyway, but it certainly encourages other people like them to take on similarly overambitious projects that are beyond their capabilities, and it just makes the sandbox genre look sadder and sadder every time.
@Anubisan: From what I can tell, Mortal has a single digit retention rate.. and I'm pretty sure it's LOW single digit. If SV actually had been able to RETAIN the people who bought the game and/or ran the trial (such as in the linked OP) they would be floating in cash and "MO Events" would not have participants counted in the 10's but rather in the thousands. That has absolutely ZERO to do with anything posted on this forum or any other forum. That has EVERYTHING to do with people who actually tried the game, and realized it was not worth a subscription.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The Neverwinter Nights modding community says, Hi.
Just because you got no idea how to code a game, it doesnt mean that no other MMO gamer on the face of the earth doesnt. You can take my word, or not I dont really care, game development isnt rocket science as long as you know what the hell you are doing. Just like any aspect of life, if an amateur greenhorn like SV tries to make something too far out of their reach based solely on their visions of grandeur then they are going to fall flat on their face. Just like if any greenhorn architect with part time experience with making shacks tried to build the world's tallest building, do you think he would be successful? Would you still support him when his works turns out to be a festering piece of crap that isnt safe to climb up past the ground floor?
Just like NWN modders, there are tons of other people who put out free content for games with or without toolsets. If a fan can mod UI plugins for games like WoW, LotRO, etc then please dont try to feed anyone the indie team bullshit if SV cant make a UI years after beta stage for their own game. Its very pathetic when your arguments end up with the same old, same old "Indie team, have mercy" tagline more than a year after this game went "gold".
Got to tell you something, in case you are concerned about posters on these forums here warding off any devs from creating potential sandboxes, worry not. SV has done a stellar job on giving them more than enough pointers on how NOT to make and manage a game. Any other gamehouse would just need to check MO's history and public debacles and if they arent a bunch of dumbasses they would get a clear idea of what they shouldnt be doing when making their sandbox MMO.
Besides if you really think that potential developers would drop by the MO forum on mmorpg.com, have a look at the messup SV made and then drop the plan of making a sandbox MMO which may be in conceptual / alpha / beta stage, then no offence but you are seriously stupid to even come up with such a cock and bull claim.
For your information, a lot of free modders know of what is involved in making and putting out a real game coded and designed from scratch. Most modders do it as a hobby and dont give up their dayjob like that team of kids who though they could make a game and charge insane prices for a half baked product based on one of the daddy's bank balance. There have also been people who have risen up from nothing by making a hell of a flagship game, Starvault isnt one of these people.
So next time before you try to roleplay a forum crusader, heroic defender of SV's chastity on the mmorpg gamespace, do your homework about what you are trying to say and stop spouting rubbish, enough with the "indie team" bullcrap already.
[Mod Edit]
Coding a MMO takes a lot of programmers, money, time. We're not talkking about a mod, we're talking about a MMO. The fact that you even bring up Neverwinter Nights moding comminuty up makes you look like a total idiot.
No it's not rocket science but it does take a great deal of time and lots of programmers. Some very simple games out there took hundreds of programmers. There's a MMO called FusionFall which is some cartoon network MMO. It was made using Unity Engine. It took probably close to 60-70 guys to make the game. That's for a simple themepark MMO. Now try tackling a sandbox mmo with a team not even half that size using the Unreal Engine.
Yea buddy it aint easy, this is no mod for an already complete game. Believe it or not but creating a game takes a lot of manpower and lots of cash. Both of with SV doesn't have.
Again not defending MO, just pointing out that this RainBringer guy is wrong.
RainBringer if you're really interested in what it takes then I suggest you do some reasearch in game development. I don't know a programmer out there who will tell you it's easy lol.
Easy or hard is a moot point. They claim they "could" do it (create a good sandbox game), they charge like they "did" it and the reality was that they "couldn't". As consumers, most of us judge a product by the price paid vs the value received. The low retention numbers MO has had since release kida give you an idea how lopsided most people see that equation...
And please, if you have to resort to calling someone an idiot to prove your point, you really don't have much of a point to begin with...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Telling someone they don't know anything about something that they themselves dont know anything about makes them an idiot. Read that guy's post. He's being an idiot. I could have used harsher words but chose not to. I guess next time I won't use the word idiot so I don't offend you.
Bringing up mods and comparing it to creating a MMO is just laughable and it makes you the word I chose.
Doesn't offend me mate. Just pointing out it weakens your case but to each his own. Besides, like I said, moot point if making a game is hard or easy: the developers of this game said they could do it and the result so far has been less than satisfactory.
Point of interest though: wasn't the lead developer of MO only prior experience in the field of game coding creating mods?
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
not sure. Either way the devs of this game needed a lot of work before taking the project on. Leaving massive memory leaks in the game for a long time or reintroducing memory leaks shows some incompetence imo. The biggest problem lies with the direction of the game, the guy running it though.
Just my opinion though,
btw i didn't need a very strong argument. All anyone woul dhave to do is go ask a programmer or better yet, go ask any university professor in programming/computer science and they will tell you the same thing.
You are correct most of the team use to mod the UE engine together and play games with each other Henrick talked about it a couple times during Beta. If you look at their linkedin profiles they have really no experience especially the CEO.
I thought so. Hence why I find it funny when the OP gets so offended when another poster brings up modders and him saying it is not the same as making a "real" game... That's kinda what the the good folk at SV did...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...