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07.01.2012. Situation in MO
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Now if i will say that all palisades are empty aswell you will throw the: "you know there are also houses inside the palisades..." card. which will sound very silly. Common if you play the game you know that is empty. In Euro timezone early in the morning was able to use blast furnace in GK without even seing anyone travelling from Mohki to GK and back. In evening times situation was a bit better since you could found like 2-3 Odin and 2-3 more Forsaken in Bahkti. Ofc there are days that more people will logon but there are days that zero people will do. A couple of days ago in european primetime zone loged in Bahkti and felt very sad cause in whole town there was only 1 afk dude macroing.
If you consider as activity the fact that some people are sitting in IRC 24/7 and if you think that those people actively playing the game then get ready to be shocked: many of those dont even have active subscriptions.
Yeah, and you were the one saying this as well:
"After release TC we had a lot of actions. But TC was a pacifier, capture of cities does nothing. MO is now boring.
many ppl leave game.
FEAR- inactiv
AQ- inactiv
FURY -inactiv
ODIN- inactiv
WSX-inactiv".
When I know ODIN that I´m in, is bigger and better then ever after TC. And so is FURY, cause we fight them on a daily bases with RUS. And FEAR and AQ battle it out with Morin Khur, so I really don´t know where you get your intell from. Can´t be those 3 accounts of yours for sure. Cause a person that login, or maybe even have a look at the live mortal map, will see there is action going on every day... While TC is far from perfect, it was a step in the right direction.
LOL so you're not putting words in my mouth, but you think putting thoughts in my brain is OK? You know nothing of my personal thoughts about SV - all I'm doing here is critizise their game and their conduct. But by all means, feel free to dismiss me as a rabid hater, that's what fanboys always resort to when someone critizise their dear game.
Anmyway, just because I'm such a sweet person, I'm going to provide you with the some of the obvious facts that you so blatantly ignore:
Fact 1: MO has a significantly lower population now than at launch.
Fact 2: Every single "saviour patch" has brought some people back for a short while, and then the pop has gone down again. Ever wonder why?
Fact 3: A lot of vets complain about TC - often portrayed as the miracle patch destined to save the game, MO's last chance, etc - being a shallow system with many serious flaws. PvP is still meaningsless, owning towns is meaningless, etc. And PvErs still have nothing to do.
Fact 4: SV has promised many, many things since launch. Most of it has not been delivered. Want me to make a little list for you? Some examples:
* Tindrem
* Town life
* Unique monsters
* UO-style inventory with UO-style thievery
* 13 magic schools
* Etherworld creatures
* Full flash UI
* Boats
* More continents
* Trading tools
* Carts and carriages
* Roads
* Religion system
* Deva system
* Inns
* Weather system affecting gameplay
...and so it goes on and on and on. This behaviour has alienated a lot of people, who were expecting a 3D UO and not a buggy PvP deathmatch. You can only break so many promises before people start unsubbing and never look back.
Fact 5: MO has a horrible rep among gamers. I know you will blame the evil haters for this, but stop and think for a moment: why do you think so many people bash MO? Because it is such an awesome game and people fail to realize it? Or could there be another reason?
Fact 6: SV's financial report is looking grim, an emergency meeting is being announced.
Fact 7: The dev team is down to a skeleton crew, devlopment is at snail pace, and dev communication is random and full of hype and forum censorship.
Fact 8: MO is not a new game anymore. Most games with a big fat FAIL-stamp on them never recover. And this year we have some new shiny AAA titles coming out, e.g. GW2 and ArcheAge (well it's coming in Korea but that will start a hypefest in the west among starved sandbox fans). Meanwhile, Skyrim modders are working on a multiplayer mod that will make that game into more of a sandbox MMO than MO has ever been.
I could go on, but you get the picture. Given the facts, MO's future looks bleak. You are ofc more than welcome to prove anything I've written to be false.
And FYI, I played MO for over a year, and sincerely hoped that it would be better one day. I don't play it anymore however, nor do I intend to. I'm done wasting money on empty promises and "potential".
Well, duh? I would be surprised if there is less people after a major PvP patch then right before it. It is obvious that there would be a slight increase of population due to a patch no matter how the population was before in the game.
added my own opinions on the issues you raised, i think your quite right in most of what oyu have said however some of it is inaccurate. Population is certainly not as high as release activity wise (not sure about subscription amounts) but the pop is higher than it was before the TC patch.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
Strongly disagree with you there. Most forums dont bother deleting threads/posts which bring up negative issues in the game or issue with an exploit (as long they dont describe it, of course). On MOFO however, I noticed such posts and threads vanish quite quickly, threads getting cleaned up with sceptic/negative remarks about patches, ect. I have been a member of many communities, but MOFO so far had the most strict moderation of them all and a most biased one too.
Maybe it is changing for the better with Talwin gone as lead mod. Beats me.
First off. I was responding to this line off your: "Saying that time is running out is in no way doomsaying, it's just stating fact". And this ain´t a "fact". Sorry to say it. But it ain´t. If you don´t understand that, then your a lost cause. That´s when I put up the example with the devil. And if you didn´t get that either, it wasn´t putting words in your mouth, it was me saying it´s OK for you to think like that, but bring the evidence then. In that case a picture of the Devil making some fine barbeque of the SV staff. In this case it was "the time is running out"-fact. I´m still waiting for your evidence for THAT "fact". And no. None of your 8 "facts" answered this.
Other then that let me answer some of you other "facts", that is mostly your opinions, then actuall facts...
Fact 1: MO has a significantly lower population now than at launch.
No shit... Every single MMO has declined since release. The only exceptions that I know of is WoW and EVE. Those two have actually increased their numbers. The rest has lower number then they had since release. Thx for stating this fact. Will you write that the sun will go up tomorrow as a fact as well next?
Fact 2: Every single "saviour patch" has brought some people back for a short while, and then the pop has gone down again. Ever wonder why?
While I do agree with this prior to TC, I still haven´t seen the numbers go down to how it was before TC. The game is healthier then it has been since release.
Fact 3: A lot of vets complain about TC - often portrayed as the miracle patch destined to save the game, MO's last chance, etc - being a shallow system with many serious flaws. PvP is still meaningsless, owning towns is meaningless, etc. And PvErs still have nothing to do.
TC sure has it´s problems, but at least SV are working on improving it all the time. The release of it was still a step in the right direction for the game.
Fact 4: SV has promised many, many things since launch. Most of it has not been delivered. Want me to make a little list for you?
And "fact" is that they still may deliver most of them. Duh!!!
Fact 5: MO has a horrible rep among gamers. I know you will blame the evil haters for this, but stop and think for a moment: why do you think so many people bash MO? Because it is such an awesome game and people fail to realize it? Or could there be another reason?
Well it´s two sides to every coin. Some love the game even though it´s flaws, and some hate it for the same reason.
Fact 6: SV's financial report is looking grim, an emergency meeting is being announced.
I think GM Theia already answered this before. It´s nothing unusuall for a company to do this. If they can get more money. Fine. Then we might get the game we all want faster. I mean, that most of us want...
Fact 7: The dev team is down to a skeleton crew, devlopment is at snail pace, and dev communication is random and full of hype and forum censorship.
The dev team so not better or worse then any other MMO company I´ve played a game from. What I do think they do better then other MMO companies is the communication with it´s playerbase. I haven´t seen this good interaction between players and developers in any other MMO that I´ve played.
Fact 8: MO is not a new game anymore. Most games with a big fat FAIL-stamp on them never recover. And this year we have some new shiny AAA titles coming out, e.g. GW2 and ArcheAge (well it's coming in Korea but that will start a hypefest in the west among starved sandbox fans). Meanwhile, Skyrim modders are working on a multiplayer mod that will make that game into more of a sandbox MMO than MO has ever been.
I don´t think any of those titles will steal players from MO. AA still has the TAB-target, and I know most that play MO hates that. I will personally try it out, cause I´m a sucker for sandbox MMOs. But I will still have my accounts for MO active. The Skyrim mod has a loooooooooong way to go before it could be called a actuall MMO.
So there we have it. I also think Death answered your questions in a good way as well mostly, so I tried not to repeat what he wrote. Might have failed here and there. But I just have to take that then. But do feel free to answer the "fact" that the time for MO is running out. Still waitning for that one. But nice try for derailing the subject. Peace out.
My memory isnt one of my strong points but I think I remember you talking about the "features" that were to be released in the Dawn patch AKA free xpac.
The part that involved addition of books, maps and write-on notes into MO using a flash based GUI. You commented something along the lines of how it would make "secret messages" valuable since anyone can kill the carrier and loot the message that wasnt meant to be read by any enemy guilds.
I CBA to dig out the threads involving the Dawn patch on these forums but you or one of your comrades in arms made this very comment about on the the features that was going to be added with a patch that brought next to nothing that was "promised" - breeding, genetics, notes and so many other things they blew inside the hype balloon back then.
They dont need to hold your pinky and chant the 'needle in your eye' vow for their word to be counted as a "promise". If the CEO or the dev team makes a release about some feature being added to the game, then its taken for granted that the next patch (or free xpac) should contain said feature. But SV havent even added content that was promised at release and yet you want to defend them when their ability to overhype is being questioned? Cmon man you arent fooling anyone but yourself here, when SV is the guilty party just admit it and dont vouch for them when they dont deserve it.
You now have zero credibility for making that point alone. You either havent played titles from reputable companies (not talking bout SOE, Funcom, asian f2p shams) or you have gone beyond delusional due to the fact that you are a sucker for sandboxes that even a litterbox like MO, seems like the next best thing since sliced bread to you.
What you call " good interaction between players and developer" is what I call lies and propaganda coupled with forum censoring akin to certain countries where freedom of speech only goes so far as the resident dictators allow it to go. No other reputable game would delete and cover up forum posts that contain constructive critisism or question the work ethics of Game Masters and Moderators (councilors or whatever they are called here). If what you say really IS true then MO wouldnt be limping along with only a handful of players logging in daily. Doesnt "good interaction between players and developer " usually foster good relations and cultivate a booming playerbase? So whats going wrong here?
And say I agree with you that population right now in MO is at one of the all time highs, congrats MO is now on the road to giving UO, EvE, DF, etc all a run for their buck.
You must have seen more than the usual 5 players so that makes a whooping 10 players who are playing MO now. Or maybe you meant to say you saw 50 new players? 100 new players? 500 new players? That must be so awesome. MO now got more than a 100% new player entry since around 500(?) players joined the game.
Im highballing here with 500 new players but in all fairness, even 500 new players added to the 100odd current playerbase is completely and utterly pathetic for a Massive-MORPG which charges top dollar as a monthly sub.
What Im saying for a fact is that even with 500+100odd players this game is a joke of a MMORPG.
What Im saying for a fact is that the majority of the MO mods are jackasses that cover up and ban players based on unethical reasons if any at all.
What Im saying for a fact is that you are too blind to see the flaws with MO, unlike some of the others MO players who play it simply because they are waiting for something better to arrive.
But what I cant say for a fact is that population in MO is at most 100odd players who actually play the game on a daily basis. So do us all this favour Mr.Facts and go ask SV what the current concurrent player population in MO is. If they refuse to give you a number, then make a poll on your free speech MO forums and ask every active player to personally come vote or if those numbers fail to impress then sit down in MO all day and count every new playertag and make a list of howmany different players you saw and howmany days it took you to compile the list. You will atleast have some concrete proof to shut up all the naysayers this way, unless...you already know that you cant push this number past 500(?) + 100odd players and dont want to end up embarassing yourself.
As for the FACT that MO is running out of time, you need to look at their financial reports, current predicament endeavours, "booming playerbase", track record and most importantly you shouldnt be a fanboy with a lack of common sense.
If you fail the last requirement, then you are most likely bound to be paying a sub to SV even after it shuts down in hopes of getting a MO 2.0...oh wait!
I'm afraid I've written more than enough on the subject so I'll just agree with this statement.
I do not recal ever stating that there would be any gui/ui additions in dawn, i do remwmber talking about the possibilities of flash after paratus discussed it but it was never intended for the dawn expansion. If you check the dawn patch notes im pretty sure you wont find anyone complaining about a lack of that feature because it was never confirmed to be in that patch.
Im not sure why but why exactly do people like you get so overly hyped over new features a dev might mention on irc (which is not an offical outlet of news) without confirmation on the site. IRC is a more relaxed way of the devs communicating with its playerbase without being held to anything official. If you want confimations and to not be disapointed then only read the offical news annoucements.
Tidnrem was the only missing feature at release of which the community recieved thievery instead (the better feature imo). I think you will find almost every MO player will agree that unless tindrem is gonig to offer something unique then it isnt really needed or should even be concentrated on.
So im sorry if you was fooled into the hype of henrik?? the ceo of a game company. But unfortunatly ceo's have a tendancy to hype their products hopefully you will learn from this and not be disapointed when ceos overhype their games considering its their job.
However me ive enjoyed most of the major patches for MO maybe its because i accepted them for what they are.
for me MO has been enjoyable and still is at times enjoyable. I have had more fun playing mo than any of the following mmos, UO,EVE,EQ2,SWG,PLANETSIDE,AO.AOC its certainly not bettter made or has as many features ut somehow the devs managed to get something right with mo that many of the other mmo creators fail terribly at, its hard to palce my finger on it but its kept me coming back and kept me logging in over and over, something those other mmos failed to do. That combined with the devs reluctance to deviate from their original concept is what has kept my faith in the game.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
What I meant is that any reasonable person can see a time limit where a promise becomes empty words. Sure you can fool your self into thinking that hey, maybe next year. In my book, if they didn't manage to keep their promises within a year, they never will. Then again, each one to their own.
@ Norpan. I am sorry but if you are saying that the pop in MO is the same as 5-6 months after release you are either lying or delusional.
5-6 months after release a lot of the big beta guilds were still in game (TOP alliance, Prom Alliance, 13, Prophecy, Myrm, Harlequin, Vynn and Aly's guild etc etc). And these guilds are not like the 20 or od guilds with 2-10 members all these guilds had 30+ members and the alliance like TOP had well over 100 members by itself. I am sure TOP and the Prom had more members in the alliance than people logged in at once right now currently in MO.
And what other people are talking about with "significant drop" SV sold around 25k copies of the game at release. I am sure it has at least sold 5k more since. It has a very bad retention rate.
I agree with the other poster. Please start a poll in the MOFO asking for SV to release the numbers. And to say people do not use the forums. I would generally agree with you. I played UO for 6 years and never once visited the forums. BUT MO is a game where half the game is the forums and to learn anything about the game you NEED to go to the forums. I would say a good chunk of the pop goes to the forums and or IRC.
IRC used to have a good healthy pop and it has steadily gone down. Is there no corelation?
Just to make one quick point, any MMO coming out now won't matter to MO, because the few people left playing right now, are the die-hards and they won't leave no matter what. They really "believe" in the game, despite what reality thus far has been presented.
Hercules - you've not taken me up on my Gentleman's bet...
Also - I think we would say the inverse about you: Anyone going on the record as a detractor of MO as many times as you would be very unlikely be able to reverse their postition and put their hands up to making a mistake. Time will do that for both of us though, either way.
As I said yesterday, one of us will be right and one of us will be be very, very wrong.
So SV have promised; AI, New GUI, Veteran Rewards (as a result of feedback from this Board) and lots else besides, Tindrem and all sorts of other things. We will see what happens. What won't happen any time soon is the lights going out at SV as predicted ooooh so many times by yourself and others here.
Truth hurts, more and more as times passes they say. Let's see what happens in the fullness of time, shall we?
And these 'delusional' comments from the OP - again not very nice. I don't think the pro-MO community bandies those sorts of comments around. They know there's a lot of work to do and much needs to be addressed. SV know this too!
We are clearly a polarised community - but the best thing about direct sunlight is that is shows in clear relief, what's actually going to happen.
Posting on these boards has for me persoanlly been quite a painful experience. When MO takes off I hope we can be a little more mature.
Possibly not though...
GMTheia
Since we are all about predictions on this forums, care to provide a specific date of when MO will "take" off? And what is meant by "taking off"? Doubling of population? Surviving for another year?
Sorry but I call pot-kettle on that. Are you going to apply the same standards to yourself cause from where I sit, you haven't been very mature or professional...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
I think that when the AI / PVE expanation comes out and we finally have something for the PVE folk that we'll see a huge surge; it's long been a complaint (and a legitimate one) that MO is too PvP focused.
As I said we're polarised at the moment with hercules and myself on polar opposites of the argument - you just need to review our posts to see how much this is the case. That said 'delusional' is a step too far as are many of the other sorts of comments I've seen here.
One might argue that when people are very passionate about anything then there's huge opportunity for this kind of conflict.
Still, again, time will tell.
thanks!
GMTheia
The difference between you and me is simple; I'm a person who has seen SV rip off people whom I know because they were stationed in Iraq/Afghanistan, and robbed them of months of subscription fees without their consent.
You are in a position to work for the company that did the stealing. The lies that ensued after these events only made a bad situation worse, and here you are as a chief propogandist to try to spread cheery news and paint what is an unethical company headed by a thief and liar that only made it this far because of his DADDY'S MONEY, then yes, we are on polar opposite positions.
Until you and SV make right what is a heinous situation and has been outstanding for a long time now, I will continue to be your polar opposite because I represent the EFFECTS of the lies and incompetence, and you represent the SOURCE of it.
Fixing basic features is an expansion? Interesting. I guess everything is relative.
Also AI / PVE isn't a basic function, it is extremely advanced, migrating herds, much more interesting NPCs etc. I think you'll be suprised when you see what's coming soon (tm). I know we joke about that but the whole team is fully focused (apart from final GUI) - I think there will be a full announcement of the content of this Expansion over the next few weeks.
SV know they have it all to do now. It's exciting times over here and the team are pumped. The recent Demons Unleashed events are just a taster. Not a teaser, a taster!
Time will tell of course. But we're pretty excited right now. (thanks)
GMTheia
I do not know what other MMOS you have played or worked for. But in my book AI/PVE is a core feature and not an expansion 2 years after release. I do agree that is setting the bar extremely low. Migrating herds is a feature of a the new AI but that does not make up for the fact that there is no AI. But it is nothing new qith SV calling fix patches or a patch an expansion (DAWN).
[mod edit] You hype and over commercialize more than you are doing any kind of informing or answering those grey area questions. [mod edit]
There is a fundamental difference of course. One position is based on fact. One is not.
The fact based position is one that says things like "The game has been released for 1.5 years and even the developers admit that they do not have a functional AI". Another fact would be "The company set subscriptions up for customers that had pre-ordered the game, even though the TOS/EULA said that the customer would have to choose a type of sub and payment method and these folks never chose a subscription. Another fact would be "The company never sent out the working discs, nor the updates that were promised and sold. It is now 1.6 years AFTER release and the company has not done so, but is working on some sort of in-game item compensation for those few that still play".
So, unless FACTS change... why would someone's position change? Is SV going to go back in a time machine and actually send out the discs they sold the customers? Is SV going to go back and un-charge the folks that they auto-subscribed? Is SV going to go back in time and launch with a functioning AI?
No.. instead you would prefer to talk about subjective items like "Fun" or "Potential" or things that once again are "Promised". When someone posts a link to the financial statements of the company that show they are nearly out of money, and then the company announces an Extraordinary Meeting of stockholders to try and raise more cash... those are FACTS. When you say the Mortal Online population is booming, but do not provide any numbers to back it up... that is NOT a fact.
So yes, opinions about what is fun or not fun can change, but FACTS about the company's behavior which have been documented cannot change. At least not without a time machine.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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