Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
...is it still suprising anyone?
Gdemami
Member EpicPosts: 12,342
in EVE Online
CCP having no clue about their game once again...and more power to Winmatar...
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=54037
Comments
Surpised that your bitterposting? Not at all.
As for the AF changes well they are still early and Tallest seems to be pretty open to making changes and listening to feedback so let's just see how the AF changes turn out closer to release K?
I'd rather have AB boni for AF's than MWD.
But like already said, a bit premature to complain about an open discussion thread.
Problem with AB bonus is that it would turn the AF op quickly. ABing frigate is a challenge to fight for larger guns but the boost would shift the challenge into impossible to fight realm.
There is nothing premature as there is no open discussion, never is, those changes will hit TQ sooner at later in very much same shape and form.
It is same idiotic change that was done to Hybrids, Destroyers, Projectiles and Speed changes respectively - flat, spreadsheet based changes with sever lack of reasoning and aim.
What's worst is that it seems the changes are pushed and proposed by CSM member. CSM are not devs and should never be involved in development process - EVER. This is the worst CSM ever and will truly cost CCP subs as much as game balance and improvement.
Seems like CCP gives more crap about giving players what they whine for instead of making their game balanced and better...
I fly winmatar, woot! duck tape my ass.
You're pretty bitter! lol Just what Eve-o needs more of. = QQ
While I generally agree on what you write on these boards, I must admit.. I agree.
But balancing a game is a hard, hair-pulling affair, especially in a game as complex as EVE.
Hopefully CCP will keep rebalancing ships such that each race has at least one ship of each class actually worth flying - and flying competitively.
At least they're listening to their players now. The biggest problem is that they're listening to the people who spew the most.
The CSM is a good idea, but the representation is, well, problematic. I, myself, have little interest in player politics (as it is now), and therefore know very little about the candidates. Of course, it's my own "responsibility" to research these people, but everyone knows that e.g. Goons will get a shitton of votes.
The fact that there are speculations that Mittani is trying to sabotage the game proves my point. And who are the rest of the guys in the CSM? I have no idea.
Follow my tweet (:
I think that the problem is that CCP needs nullsec to market their game, its a major part of their original "vision" and they have always been trying to get more players to migrate to null . Although they have mostly failed (latest fail being dominion sov mechanics), they would still like to see a nullsec one day that houses a majority of the players. This way they can keep making trailers like "EVE is real". Their marketing is good, I was actually drawn to EVE based on the videos I've seen and stories I've read about player driven conflicts. EVE is my first and only MMO because of nullsec. I can't speak for everyone who gave EVE a go but I think its fairly apparent that much of their publicity is based on a small "hardcore" percentage of the game.
As for the CSM, its not unusual for people to vote down the party line, just like IRL. The only way to counter a organized voting drive is to organize in opposition. If people complaining about a nullsec centered CSM can't/won't organize highsec or lowsec into a coherent voting bloc then they only have themselves to blame. EVE rewards effort and teamplay, I don't see why this shouldnt be the case for CSM representation as well.
Lastly I don't think mittens is trying to ruin or kill EVE. Its simply not in his best interest, he's got too much invested in it to want it to be killed. EVE is arguably the game that goons are most successful at, why would they ruin a good thing? Most likely when they say they are trying to kill the game they are just trolling, with so many people being baited why would they stop rabble-rousing?
Goons
CSM 6 is 0.0 narrow minded monkeys.
Yeah, Mittani as a CSM is a disaster for the game, and it is with no doubt the worst CSM ever. Unfortunately because CCP screwed up Incarna, they are not in a position to put CSM back to heir place.
Honestly, I do not think it is as difficult to balance the game as it is difficult to manage a company growing so rapidly as CCP was in past years.
When you hear a dev responsible for balancing being serious about Blastertron fitted with Afterburner as viable option, you know the issue isn't balancing but people sitting on wrong chairs...
Isn't it irony that the CCP ex-dev being behind the Dominion sov mechanics is now sitting in CSM?
Because they can.
Mittani will do just anything that will please his supersized ego...if that means to screw up the game, so be it, as long as he can enjoy the feeling of self-importance in the process.
I don't think it's a problem that CCP needs nullsec. Hell, I love nullsec. I'm not in nullsec, but I love it. And I love EVE for the exact reasons that nullsec is there for.
So I don't see why nullsec is a problem. Marketing their game as they've practically always done is good. And the fact that you can actually do whatever they're advertising in the game? Boo-yah.
The problem with trying to organize an opposition? How many players read the forums/dev blogs/CSM-candidate stuff/etc.? Goons will still outnumber you. And the rest of the people will vote for the guys they know already. (To be honest, though, I'm speculating wildly here. But maybe I'll run next time! And be drowned in the goonspawn and anti-goonspawn that also runs).
Here it is:
People want someone who understands the game... Who do they believe knows this? People in "power", such as Mittani. Will they vote for AverageJoe? No, they don't know who he is, and they don't know what he knows. He could be the "good" evil-twin-side of Mittani, who just didn't decide to start up an alliance and would rather just mine and chill with a few people he got to know, although he might have fifteen alts doing fifteen different things in EVE, and an immersive amount of knowledge about EVE. But people can't trust that. They won't vote for him.
...
The rumor I'm thinking about is right here, specifically...
Follow my tweet (:
Completely wrong, both of you..
CSM is nothing like political party. CSM are delegates, not politicians. A role that seem to be forgotten recently.
Just another sign of how CCP lost control...and I would say not over their game only...
A bonus to ABs would be much better than MWD tbh, if they didnt didnt make the bonus outrageous like last time with a 75% boost. My biggest complaint with the changes is that it replaces the inty's fast tackle role with an AF heay-fast tackle. Also they give these ships another slot yet barely any fitting when they are already hard to fit as it is. There is a way to boost AFs and like with most balancing decisions CCP and the CSM are completed retarded in this aspect. Lastly about large guns having trouble hitting AB frigs ... they have problems hitting frigs in general, and it should be that way unless you want tornadoes insta popping frigs. The bigger OP problem CCP has atm is destroyers, they buffed them wayyy too much.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Eve dev's are running up against the same issue that every other PVP game does.
How do you balance the equipment out and still add bigger and better and not get stale?
In PVE games you can always make the critters bigger and badder right along with the upgraded items/ships or whatever.
Each upgrade or expansion of EVE just adds ontop of the problems you have trying to make all the ships worth flying, and still have that bonus for going up in tiers.
Sooner or later you run into the wall of you can not make small changes or additions, you have to go back and redo each and every ship and piece of equpment each time you try to add anything to the game for PVP.
True catch 22 in PVP games:) You try to keep the game progressing and you create so many problems in old content you are always dancing on the head of a needle.
The bitter (goon-hate) tears that is dropping from this thread is just over-flowing my cup. What the...
Considering what CCP has done last year (Jita riot / monocle-gate etc etc) it is a damn miracle EVE isn't dead yet. I give credit where credit is due and this CSM deserves them.
Crucible is their most successful expansion in a while according to player activity so there's that too.
EVE is looking good, devs are finally doing stuff to improve 0.0 which is always good.
They even tried the new 'Time Dilation' on a Goon vs WN./Raiden fight which failed horribly. In true CCP fashion they didn't tell anyone that they were going to be test subjects until after the fact.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
As I said before, even slight AB boost would be too much. We are talking about close range where very subtle changes of speed means a lot - tracking, missiles.
AB boost will not work, regardless how nice and sensible it looks.
Yeah, if MWD bonus is supposed to be a role defining, Assault frigates should be renamed to Heavy Interceptors.
This change basically asks for nanos to come back(once again after dramiel being nerfed) but in a very bad form.
That isn't a problem here. Assault Frigates are one of the most balanced ship class out there. I do agree that AF sort of lack a role but they are still well balanced internally and towards other classes. They are also well used in low-sec PVP.
It is a class that needs the least balancing, yet they decided to screw them up.
And this is the real problem here - once again stupid changes with flawed or even non-existent reasoning to back them up and flat boosts as an answer to specific issues.
Same old story...
Of course it is. It's easy to say "goons did it", and "in the old days!". :P
To the rest of your post, your right. CCP suddenly did something good, and more-or-less saved their game (or, well, we'll see soon enough, anyway).
Yes, they are delegates. They might as well be politicians. The CSM is supposed to consist of people representing every aspect of EVE. But as it is now, it's a populairy vote, at least that's how it seems. Let's see what happens, though..
Follow my tweet (:
Nope. You are still missing the point.
Delegates are the voice of organization or community they represent.
Politicians are influencing decision making.
Both can be elected but both have different roles. Power is something CSM were never supposed to have.
Which is exactly my point, they might as well be politicians. They are supposed to just be voices (which will still influence decision making due to the CCP policy), but are a more direct force. Thus, they are more like politicians.
Follow my tweet (:
Um...it might be a language barrier and/or my laziness to formulate properly...
Delegates are passive, their only role and intentions are to forward the information that was given to them.
Politicians are active, they pursue their program, ideals and make changes.
Ones do not bear the power and intentions to change anything, the others do.
I am not sure how to understand your statement "they might as well be politicians". You imply they should be, thus their role should be changed or that they could be perceived as such since their role has already changed?
I believe that they could be perceived as such, since they, seemingly, are already influencing CCPs decisions. Whether they are "just" acting as a voice of their representatives I cannot say, but as it is, they're "in the loop" when it comes to changes revolving EVE.
As it seems, CCP gives them information about changes etc., which they then give feedback to. Which is why I mean that they might as well be politicians. They're influencing changes in EVE. They might be told of a change, and then go out to hear what "their people"'s opinion about it is, or they might be told of a change and then act according to what they think "their people"'s opinion is.
Howevevr, they are not simply relaying information back and forth between CCP and the playerbase.
Follow my tweet (:
Ah, I see.
By your logic, every player is a part of the metrics and thus influence the game development. Or it could be a dog of said developer that inspired...
I was talking about people, their roles and direct impact of their actions if that wasn't clear.
The ones that influence the development are devs only. CSM is just a feedback channel, a way CCP can "talk" to community and vice versa.
CSM are no more than community managers, just elected by said community. They do get more information because it is way easier to have a discussion with 9 people as opposed to 350k, it also helps CSM to "simply" better relay the information back and forth, as that is their job.
Unfortunately, current CSM think they are more than that and take advantage of recent screw up of Incarna...
I'd like to think myself as someone who can think logically.
And in this thread I do not see it.
1. CSM has power therefore the non-0.0 should organize themselves to elect their 'high-sec' representive.
2. CSM is no more than a feedback channel and what goes on in EVE is not influenced by them, therefore we shouldn't give them credit.
The above two reasoning are in direct conflict with each other.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
If one thinks CSM is worth organizing (or whining cause the playerbase can't be bothered to vote) for then give the CSM's the credit if something goes right/wrong.
If you won't give them credit then it isn't worth voting in the first place so why 'whine' about 0.0 in CSM?
I don't get it.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I liked the old Goons and the chaos they brought. What they've become not so much.
What I don't get is CCP allowing Mittani to keep is CSM status after he put out a notice stating anyone reporting suspicious behavior (Bots) would be dealt with. Don't report them to CCP.
CCP has seen the letter. It's been posted on Eve-O forums a few times. Add in the huge love triangle going on in null and it makes sense. Some select few are making a decent r/l profit.
Two common arguments why CSM should have no power are:
1) CSM have no qualification as game designer.
2) CSM have no responsibility, they are not liable for changes.
But seeing CCP allowing CSM to gain so much power over development you must conclude that they have no responsibility either and along with failures such as was PI, sov changes, T3 or any balancing in past years, you must also conclude that their qualification is also doubtful...
I said in another thread that imo current EVE issues are caused by lack of direction and subsequent lose of control over EVE development that happened after Revelation/Trinity when all core features of the game were deployed but no new course was set.
When you add in very rapid company growth in years 2007/2008 - 2011, it's fitting the picture well, things are getting lost easily in such process.
I am fairly consistent in CCP criticism for years but so far I was considering just my opinion, now I am really worried/curious how this will pan out...so far it does not look good as they missed the opportunity with Crucible completely. On the other hand expecting them to deliver decent expansion would be too high expectation...only time will tell.