Amazing how they didn't even try to mix it up, or disguise the similarities. It gives WoW-clone a whole new meaning, the way they made it nearly identical. People say Rift was a WoW clone, but the way the skill trees worked was a lot more different, and many of the abilities you could use weren't like anything in WoW. TOR on the other hand? That's not even just some superficial UI similarity. They just shamelessly plaguerized WoW, on every level.. except quality of execution.
Hah perfect, wonder why the thread on MMORPG.COM on this subject was locked without any explanation.
Yeah, lots of MMOs don't have auto-attack. It's almost like they're calling it innovation, because its one of the few ways it deviates from WoW. Talk about lowering the bar...
Funny thing is, in games like CoH, LOTRO, or AoC, I didn't notice the lack of auto-attack. Its absence seemed to fit the combat system pretty well, but in TOR, it feels like its missing.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I would disagree that removing auto attacts is an innovation. To me this is more like lack or polish or attention to detail.
Auto attack is one of the hardest thing to try and balance. Most range classes dont have it. It really is a mess to have auto attack and I am glad BW removed it.
"I agree that how crafting is implemented in SWTOR, is innovative. I also think how they brought their storytelling with voiceovers to a MMO, is innovative."
Really?! I'm not sure what part of their crafting you view as innovative here. If you mean by reverse-engineering you're wrong.
Anarchy Online was planned to have reverse engineering of items at launch in 2001. There was however an issue (technical or balance wise) and the function was later removed. It never did work properly but the reverse-engineering icon was there and planned to work.
Also, the reverse engineering system in SW:TOR works in the fashion of learning new recipies through your crafting of items. This is much the same function as WoW Alchemy just in a different way.
SW:TOR doesnt have a shred of innovation at any level, much like WoW. However, WoW did it in a much better way than TOR (not a WoW fan here btw).
Calling this a stretch would be an understatement.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
It's a corporate-safe knock off of older MMO designs (they didn't even poach from newer titles!). Bioware needs to return to comparing their game to men singing in blackface and "story, story story".
"I agree that how crafting is implemented in SWTOR, is innovative. I also think how they brought their storytelling with voiceovers to a MMO, is innovative."
Really?! I'm not sure what part of their crafting you view as innovative here. If you mean by reverse-engineering you're wrong.
Anarchy Online was planned to have reverse engineering of items at launch in 2001. There was however an issue (technical or balance wise) and the function was later removed. It never did work properly but the reverse-engineering icon was there and planned to work.
Also, the reverse engineering system in SW:TOR works in the fashion of learning new recipies through your crafting of items. This is much the same function as WoW Alchemy just in a different way.
SW:TOR doesnt have a shred of innovation at any level, much like WoW. However, WoW did it in a much better way than TOR (not a WoW fan here btw).
So its not inovating when BW pulls it off first? I planned on being the first man on the moon but the US failed because I planed it first? lol Anyways. Crafting is more then just unique because of the RE thing. Its also the hassel free aspect. Leave everything in your bank. No need to goto a crafting station or make sure items are in your invantory. Just click and tell your companions to do my budding. RE thing is awesome to. There is different levels of crit on a RE so you have a chance to make something really unique and awesome. I have a few crits that are super uber and I have made ALOT of money from. I have already felt way more needed as a crafter in this game then any other before it and BW has stated its not yet working as intended. Improvments to come. This was a good read and hit it on the head. Sometimes its the little things that matter. SWTOR rocked this.
Crafting is more then just unique because of the RE thing. Its also the hassel free aspect. Leave everything in your bank. No need to goto a crafting station or make sure items are in your invantory. Just click and tell your companions to do my budding. RE thing is awesome to. There is different levels of crit on a RE so you have a chance to make something really unique and awesome. I have a few crits that are super uber and I have made ALOT of money from. I have already felt way more needed as a crafter in this game then any other before it and BW has stated its not yet working as intended. Improvments to come. This was a good read and hit it on the head. Sometimes its the little things that matter. SWTOR rocked this.
So lemme get this straight as I don't play SWTOR(not into IP and not into another WoW-like theme park) - crafter in this game doesn't gather nor hunt materials, instead he pays on AH or buy it from in game store(on cooldown) called "sent companion on a mission", right? Then it's clicky and see numbers grow? That must be most dumbed down and lacking crafting I ever saw in any game and yet it's called Innovative here. LOL! I mean if You aren't into crafting this can be nice, but for anyone that enjoys gathering and then making stuff for sale, it's a slap in the face.
"I agree that how crafting is implemented in SWTOR, is innovative. I also think how they brought their storytelling with voiceovers to a MMO, is innovative."
Really?! I'm not sure what part of their crafting you view as innovative here. If you mean by reverse-engineering you're wrong.
Anarchy Online was planned to have reverse engineering of items at launch in 2001. There was however an issue (technical or balance wise) and the function was later removed. It never did work properly but the reverse-engineering icon was there and planned to work.
Also, the reverse engineering system in SW:TOR works in the fashion of learning new recipies through your crafting of items. This is much the same function as WoW Alchemy just in a different way.
SW:TOR doesnt have a shred of innovation at any level, much like WoW. However, WoW did it in a much better way than TOR (not a WoW fan here btw).
So its not inovating when BW pulls it off first? I planned on being the first man on the moon but the US failed because I planed it first? lol Anyways. Crafting is more then just unique because of the RE thing. Its also the hassel free aspect. Leave everything in your bank. No need to goto a crafting station or make sure items are in your invantory. Just click and tell your companions to do my budding. RE thing is awesome to. There is different levels of crit on a RE so you have a chance to make something really unique and awesome. I have a few crits that are super uber and I have made ALOT of money from. I have already felt way more needed as a crafter in this game then any other before it and BW has stated its not yet working as intended. Improvments to come. This was a good read and hit it on the head. Sometimes its the little things that matter. SWTOR rocked this.
Ohhhh you mean the I have to craft 20+ items just to learn a schematic that not to mention I pray that it has a legit combo? i.e. blaster pistol with shielding rating *rolls eyes* not to mention the whole "You already know this schematic" instances.
Anyways sending companions out to gather basic mats is retarded unless you just need a little amt, farming is still a neccessity to any serious crafter. It has not been removed. Any smart crafter is sending their companions out of the rare mats via UWT, Investigation ect ect
Anyways the whole RNG crafting concept has been ill received by many which news flash SWTOR is not the first. Aion had a RNG concept also.
Overall crafting has been nothing but a giant headache, the amt of resources, time, and commitement no where nears the justification on the rewards.
While RE concept is great, the implementation is horrendous. Sure some will counter with the ol' "Ohh boohoo, sry it's not EZ mode" and to those I say this, people don't want EZ mode, they want consistency. Also the only resulty in an incredebly grindsome, credit and time sink (which is all what the crafting is in the end) that if you do get the "perfect" schematic that all it leads to an grossly inflated priced item. More accessability leads to more competition which results in a better economy.
I'm sorry, but you missed the bus stop. Nothing you mentioned is what those who demand inovation consider as inovative. And to those who praise TOR for introducing meaningfull story to the genra, ha. I'm sorry the genra didn't beat you over the head with All the meaning full story it provided you for years, none the less it was there if you just bothered to read it.
Back to my original point, the inovation that is being looked for in MMO's is nothing more than First Person Shooter game mechanics, nothing more. If a game has tab targeting and hot key skills, it is labeld a WoW clone for nothing else. Basically they hate RPGs and especially MMORPGs
Nothing less than a Gears of Modern Warfare Duty style MMO will satisfy the inovation demanding rabble. Hopefully Planetside 2 will shut them up. I played the original PS long before WoW come out. So in my opinion the game they are looking for all ready exists. I don't play any of the modern FPS console giants (GoW, MW, CoD) so I donty know how they play.
But I suspect if you put a screen shot of one of them side by side with TOR, the inovation demanders whould say, Yeah something like that and not this cartoon rehash. When they demand the removal of auto-attack becuse it's not stratigic, they mean its not twitch. I don't know what the max number of players in a multiplayer FPS is, some thing like 16x16? But this is what erks them about MMOs.
MMORPG players can't match them in FPS skill, so RPGer are full of T-Bag oportunity.
So long as MMOs utilize RPG mechanics orver FPS, they will be labled as non-inovtive.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Anyone notice how hardcore MMORPG.com is trying to push Swtor? special forums for it, constant articles...i dont think ive seen another MMO pushed so hard by MMORPG.com. :P
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Anyone notice how hardcore MMORPG.com is trying to push Swtor? special forums for it, constant articles...i dont think ive seen another MMO pushed so hard by MMORPG.com. :P
Yes. It feels like they are doing marketing and PR for Bioware. Unfortunately, the end result of everyone gushing over a game that clearly needs some work, is that it will be less of a game than it could be because Bioware can pat themselves on the back for a job well done instead of fixing the many glaring problems.
I love the post I saw yesterday where one of the Bioware people basically said that those who don't like the game are just haters. What a joke. This is the Bioware I have been hearing so many good things about over the last few years? Please.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Crafting is more then just unique because of the RE thing. Its also the hassel free aspect. Leave everything in your bank. No need to goto a crafting station or make sure items are in your invantory. Just click and tell your companions to do my budding. RE thing is awesome to. There is different levels of crit on a RE so you have a chance to make something really unique and awesome. I have a few crits that are super uber and I have made ALOT of money from. I have already felt way more needed as a crafter in this game then any other before it and BW has stated its not yet working as intended. Improvments to come. This was a good read and hit it on the head. Sometimes its the little things that matter. SWTOR rocked this.
So lemme get this straight as I don't play SWTOR(not into IP and not into another WoW-like theme park) - crafter in this game doesn't gather nor hunt materials, instead he pays on AH or buy it from in game store(on cooldown) called "sent companion on a mission", right? Then it's clicky and see numbers grow? That must be most dumbed down and lacking crafting I ever saw in any game and yet it's called Innovative here. LOL! I mean if You aren't into crafting this can be nice, but for anyone that enjoys gathering and then making stuff for sale, it's a slap in the face.
This is the problem. You don't craft. The people who like this system like it because it feels nothing at all like gathering and crafting. You stand there and tell your companions to do everything for you. Sure, there are some *static* resource nodes here and there, when they are actually working.
I find the whole system to be a sham. Take resource gathering. You click on a mission and send your companion, who then just disappears because Bioware couldn't even be bothered to make them run away from you as if they were actually leaving on a mission, then they reappear with loot X minutes later. It's the most shallow and yawn-inspiring thing I have ever seen, and Bioware didn't even try to make it look bigger than it is.
These games are being built for people who just want to run quests. That's it. They always want to be swinging their swords at something, and watching the bar on the screen increase towards the next level. Companies like Bioware couldn't care less that a lof of players actually like the social aspect or down-time of crafting, or that some players really don't want crafting at all. When you make crafting actually challenging, you force people to decide if they are a crafter or not. I like this, and I think that should be how it works, personally.
Instead we have this game that is trying to be everything to everyone, and failing on all fronts for those of us who want some depth in their gameplay. This is why an increasing number of people are simply getting bored with it already. There is no substance, no depth, no social aspect to make people care about staying, and the combat/gameplay is as easy-button as it could possibly get. All of this set in a sterile and seemingly empty world.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
How the hell can you say this game is innovative because it doesnt have auto attack?! City of Heroes came out in 2004, it had no auto attack and its combat was way ahead of TOR's, I like TOR and am playing it but dont talk like they are doing ANYTHING innovative because they arent, they threw a mix of WoW and Dragon Age with a Star Wars theme and that is what it is, it isnt innovative, it isnt the future of MMOs, its just a mix of things we already enjoy. That isnt a bad thing, but you cant say its something its not.
Yeah calling SWTOR 'innovative' is a bit of a stretch by anyones imagination. They obviously set out to cherry pick what they liked from other MMOs, and tweaked them a bit.
The only thing I can say that I have seen in SWTOR that I havent in another MMO is the 'cover' system for Smugglers / Imperial Agents, where you can hide behind cover and as long as you arent executing an attack (ie: casting while standing) you are blocked from all ranged damage. The shots actually fire at the object you are hiding behind, which is kinda cool. Like how blaster combat worked in the movies.
Comments
Hah perfect, wonder why the thread on MMORPG.COM on this subject was locked without any explanation.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/337906/Note-sure-if-this-pic-has-been-posted-yet.html
REALITY CHECK
Yeah, lots of MMOs don't have auto-attack. It's almost like they're calling it innovation, because its one of the few ways it deviates from WoW. Talk about lowering the bar...
Funny thing is, in games like CoH, LOTRO, or AoC, I didn't notice the lack of auto-attack. Its absence seemed to fit the combat system pretty well, but in TOR, it feels like its missing.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
While SWTOR might not have a lot of new and/or unique features, what makes it different for me is the focus on story.
And it's not just 1 big story.
Your character, your companions, in some cases starships/equipement and most mission related NPCs/outposts all seem to have their own stuff going on.
Even if you'd play the game without any other players, the game feels alive.
Innovation in auto-attack-less combat? Come on, has anyone ever played Age of Conan? That's combat innovation.
One thing you missed: a story driven MMO, that's the main innovative feature TOR brings to the MMO genre - and that's what's gonna make me play it.
Auto attack is one of the hardest thing to try and balance. Most range classes dont have it. It really is a mess to have auto attack and I am glad BW removed it.
"I agree that how crafting is implemented in SWTOR, is innovative. I also think how they brought their storytelling with voiceovers to a MMO, is innovative."
Really?! I'm not sure what part of their crafting you view as innovative here. If you mean by reverse-engineering you're wrong.
Anarchy Online was planned to have reverse engineering of items at launch in 2001. There was however an issue (technical or balance wise) and the function was later removed. It never did work properly but the reverse-engineering icon was there and planned to work.
Also, the reverse engineering system in SW:TOR works in the fashion of learning new recipies through your crafting of items. This is much the same function as WoW Alchemy just in a different way.
SW:TOR doesnt have a shred of innovation at any level, much like WoW. However, WoW did it in a much better way than TOR (not a WoW fan here btw).
Calling this a stretch would be an understatement.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
More paid SWTOR drivel.
/yawn
This really isn't a fight Bioware can win.
It's a corporate-safe knock off of older MMO designs (they didn't even poach from newer titles!). Bioware needs to return to comparing their game to men singing in blackface and "story, story story".
I disagree about auto attack. Other MMO's already did it, like Fallen Earth, DCUO and Tabula Rasa, as example.
As I wrote in another thread, referring to TOR as innovative is like calling my latest bowel movement "Lawlmonsters' most creative poop".
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
So its not inovating when BW pulls it off first? I planned on being the first man on the moon but the US failed because I planed it first? lol Anyways. Crafting is more then just unique because of the RE thing. Its also the hassel free aspect. Leave everything in your bank. No need to goto a crafting station or make sure items are in your invantory. Just click and tell your companions to do my budding. RE thing is awesome to. There is different levels of crit on a RE so you have a chance to make something really unique and awesome. I have a few crits that are super uber and I have made ALOT of money from. I have already felt way more needed as a crafter in this game then any other before it and BW has stated its not yet working as intended. Improvments to come. This was a good read and hit it on the head. Sometimes its the little things that matter. SWTOR rocked this.
This reviewer has lost ALL credibility with this piece. What complete drivel.
Let's face it, there is NOTHING innovative in SWTOR, it is all borrowed from other games.
So lemme get this straight as I don't play SWTOR(not into IP and not into another WoW-like theme park) - crafter in this game doesn't gather nor hunt materials, instead he pays on AH or buy it from in game store(on cooldown) called "sent companion on a mission", right? Then it's clicky and see numbers grow? That must be most dumbed down and lacking crafting I ever saw in any game and yet it's called Innovative here. LOL! I mean if You aren't into crafting this can be nice, but for anyone that enjoys gathering and then making stuff for sale, it's a slap in the face.
Ohhhh you mean the I have to craft 20+ items just to learn a schematic that not to mention I pray that it has a legit combo? i.e. blaster pistol with shielding rating *rolls eyes* not to mention the whole "You already know this schematic" instances.
Anyways sending companions out to gather basic mats is retarded unless you just need a little amt, farming is still a neccessity to any serious crafter. It has not been removed. Any smart crafter is sending their companions out of the rare mats via UWT, Investigation ect ect
Anyways the whole RNG crafting concept has been ill received by many which news flash SWTOR is not the first. Aion had a RNG concept also.
Overall crafting has been nothing but a giant headache, the amt of resources, time, and commitement no where nears the justification on the rewards.
While RE concept is great, the implementation is horrendous. Sure some will counter with the ol' "Ohh boohoo, sry it's not EZ mode" and to those I say this, people don't want EZ mode, they want consistency. Also the only resulty in an incredebly grindsome, credit and time sink (which is all what the crafting is in the end) that if you do get the "perfect" schematic that all it leads to an grossly inflated priced item. More accessability leads to more competition which results in a better economy.
I'm sorry, but you missed the bus stop. Nothing you mentioned is what those who demand inovation consider as inovative. And to those who praise TOR for introducing meaningfull story to the genra, ha. I'm sorry the genra didn't beat you over the head with All the meaning full story it provided you for years, none the less it was there if you just bothered to read it.
Back to my original point, the inovation that is being looked for in MMO's is nothing more than First Person Shooter game mechanics, nothing more. If a game has tab targeting and hot key skills, it is labeld a WoW clone for nothing else. Basically they hate RPGs and especially MMORPGs
Nothing less than a Gears of Modern Warfare Duty style MMO will satisfy the inovation demanding rabble. Hopefully Planetside 2 will shut them up. I played the original PS long before WoW come out. So in my opinion the game they are looking for all ready exists. I don't play any of the modern FPS console giants (GoW, MW, CoD) so I donty know how they play.
But I suspect if you put a screen shot of one of them side by side with TOR, the inovation demanders whould say, Yeah something like that and not this cartoon rehash. When they demand the removal of auto-attack becuse it's not stratigic, they mean its not twitch. I don't know what the max number of players in a multiplayer FPS is, some thing like 16x16? But this is what erks them about MMOs.
MMORPG players can't match them in FPS skill, so RPGer are full of T-Bag oportunity.
So long as MMOs utilize RPG mechanics orver FPS, they will be labled as non-inovtive.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
was thinking the same. its like your telling us its innovative to not be innovative??
ohh you might be on to something here. I need to ponder on that for a bit.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Innovation?? Where?? where???
I bought the deluxe digital edition...i have a lvl 26 character & i´m already bored to my bones with the game....
Probably going back to RIFT in another month untill GW2 comes out....
Anyone notice how hardcore MMORPG.com is trying to push Swtor? special forums for it, constant articles...i dont think ive seen another MMO pushed so hard by MMORPG.com. :P
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Yes. It feels like they are doing marketing and PR for Bioware. Unfortunately, the end result of everyone gushing over a game that clearly needs some work, is that it will be less of a game than it could be because Bioware can pat themselves on the back for a job well done instead of fixing the many glaring problems.
I love the post I saw yesterday where one of the Bioware people basically said that those who don't like the game are just haters. What a joke. This is the Bioware I have been hearing so many good things about over the last few years? Please.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
This is the problem. You don't craft. The people who like this system like it because it feels nothing at all like gathering and crafting. You stand there and tell your companions to do everything for you. Sure, there are some *static* resource nodes here and there, when they are actually working.
I find the whole system to be a sham. Take resource gathering. You click on a mission and send your companion, who then just disappears because Bioware couldn't even be bothered to make them run away from you as if they were actually leaving on a mission, then they reappear with loot X minutes later. It's the most shallow and yawn-inspiring thing I have ever seen, and Bioware didn't even try to make it look bigger than it is.
These games are being built for people who just want to run quests. That's it. They always want to be swinging their swords at something, and watching the bar on the screen increase towards the next level. Companies like Bioware couldn't care less that a lof of players actually like the social aspect or down-time of crafting, or that some players really don't want crafting at all. When you make crafting actually challenging, you force people to decide if they are a crafter or not. I like this, and I think that should be how it works, personally.
Instead we have this game that is trying to be everything to everyone, and failing on all fronts for those of us who want some depth in their gameplay. This is why an increasing number of people are simply getting bored with it already. There is no substance, no depth, no social aspect to make people care about staying, and the combat/gameplay is as easy-button as it could possibly get. All of this set in a sterile and seemingly empty world.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Uhm, because Rit is so innovative???
How the hell can you say this game is innovative because it doesnt have auto attack?! City of Heroes came out in 2004, it had no auto attack and its combat was way ahead of TOR's, I like TOR and am playing it but dont talk like they are doing ANYTHING innovative because they arent, they threw a mix of WoW and Dragon Age with a Star Wars theme and that is what it is, it isnt innovative, it isnt the future of MMOs, its just a mix of things we already enjoy. That isnt a bad thing, but you cant say its something its not.
Mystery Bounty
Yeah calling SWTOR 'innovative' is a bit of a stretch by anyones imagination. They obviously set out to cherry pick what they liked from other MMOs, and tweaked them a bit.
The only thing I can say that I have seen in SWTOR that I havent in another MMO is the 'cover' system for Smugglers / Imperial Agents, where you can hide behind cover and as long as you arent executing an attack (ie: casting while standing) you are blocked from all ranged damage. The shots actually fire at the object you are hiding behind, which is kinda cool. Like how blaster combat worked in the movies.